PS2 on a HDTV - How do I make it look less crappy?

Kanik

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I recently bought a PS2 Slim but simply put, it looks like garbage on my HDTV. With composite cables the game looks too blurry. With component cables there are too many jagged edges and it looks stretched.

Is there any way for me to play the games and have it looking like it would normally on a SDTV?

I even considered buying a PS3 for it's ability to upscale but have been unable to find a direct answer on whether older games would like decent on a HDTV, as I've seen people complain about jagged edges on that too.
 
You could fiddle around with your HDTV picture settings. On my Sony HDTV preset movie setting was less crappy before I calibrated using some blu-ray disc. There are stand-alone video upscalers ($2k+) but it'll be a while before they drop in price for avg gamers.
 
PS3 bro... I'll give you the straight answer that they look MUCH better on an HDTV then a PS2 slim ever will.

IMHO, return the PS2 slim (if you can), and get (or wait) a PS3...

* I say "wait" because the new 80GB bundle with MGS4 is coming out in June... Otherwise if you can find a 60 or 80GB PS3, go for it...
 
Sit further back from the TV....even a good 3-6 feet will make that picture look alot better than it does closer up.
 
[quote name='iHack']PS3 bro... I'll give you the straight answer that they look MUCH better on an HDTV then a PS2 slim ever will.
[/quote]

Hmm... are you sure about this? I remember reading somewhere that PS2 games look worse on PS3. No I'm not a 360 fanboy since I plan on getting a PS3 near the end of its life like PS2.
 
I think PS2 games look great on the PS3. I know when the PS3 first came out there were all sorts of issues regarding jagged edges, but an early firmware update fixed that.

I'd encourage you to ask your question again over in the PS3 forum. A lot of them can provide their system specs and any issues they've experienced. I only get to play on an HDTV when I go visit my Father in Law.
 
[quote name='laaj']Hmm... are you sure about this? I remember reading somewhere that PS2 games look worse on PS3. No I'm not a 360 fanboy since I plan on getting a PS3 near the end of its life like PS2.[/QUOTE]
yeah that was before a online update. Now they have this thing called "SMOOTHING" which is some newfangled way to make the ps2 games have smoother textures while upconverting the scanlines. I actually think the best looking game I've played so far has been god of war 2 upconverted on my ps3. it looks better than devil may cry 4.
 
Sometimes games look better on the PS3, sometimes they look worse.

Your best bet is just using component cables and using 480p mode whenever the game allows it.
 
Thanks for the replies. My major concern is being able to play the Legacy of Kain games (none of which support progressive or widescreen). I have a feeling that a s-video cable might do the trick since composite looks too blurry and component looks too sharp.

I would go for the PS3 but I'm having difficulty finding one (and I feel a bit too impatient to wait for June). Anyone know a reliable place I could buy one? I tracked down a 60gb recently at gamestop and it died after I updated the firmware later that night.

Also, a question for PS3 owners: does the PS3 produce a ton of heat? I can't tell whether it was because my 60gb was defective, but it made my entire room hotter after only being on for 10 minutes.
 
The other thing you should do is change the "zoom" setting on your HDTV so it doesn't stretch the image horizontally in order to make it fit the entire screen. I.e. you do want black bars on the left and right if the game does not support 16x9. Not only will this eliminate the distortion, but it will make the image look sharper.
 
[quote name='Kanik']Thanks for the replies. My major concern is being able to play the Legacy of Kain games (none of which support progressive or widescreen). I have a feeling that a s-video cable might do the trick since composite looks too blurry and component looks too sharp.

I would go for the PS3 but I'm having difficulty finding one (and I feel a bit too impatient to wait for June). Anyone know a reliable place I could buy one? I tracked down a 60gb recently at gamestop and it died after I updated the firmware later that night.

Also, a question for PS3 owners: does the PS3 produce a ton of heat? I can't tell whether it was because my 60gb was defective, but it made my entire room hotter after only being on for 10 minutes.[/QUOTE]

No, the PS3 definitely pushes out a ton of heat. Like more than any I've ever seen from a console or PC.

The 40GBs are a little better with the heat, since it uses less power but you still get that sauna feeling.
 
1. Use the component cables
2. Run in 4:3 mode
3. Make sure that your TV is not zooming the image (you should have black bars on both sides)
 
[quote name='zewone']No, the PS3 definitely pushes out a ton of heat. Like more than any I've ever seen from a console or PC.

The 40GBs are a little better with the heat, since it uses less power but you still get that sauna feeling.[/quote]

Dang, that alone makes me not want to try and get a PS3 again. I hated the amount of heat it produced and with the summer here I would probably find myself not wanting to turn it on just for that. My room is relatively small.

[quote name='gobz']1. Use the component cables
2. Run in 4:3 mode
3. Make sure that your TV is not zooming the image (you should have black bars on both sides)[/quote]

Ya, that's what I've been doing. If I sit far back enough it looks alright and is certainly playable.

Even with mixed reviews, I bit the bullet and bought a PS2 HDTV player. (Basically a bootup disc that forces the PS2 into progressive mode) Lovely part, I bought it "new" and while the wire was still in the bag the disc was littered with scratches. PS2 doesn't even recognize it half the time I put it in. It makes the game look a bit better in 480p, but then the FMVs all lag. 720p and 1080i both look like crap that shrinks everything in-game, even when I zoom in. The 576p looks amazing, it fills the whole screen and the game looks beautiful - only problem, it's running at 50hz and the music lags. There's no winning with this thing. :whistle2:/

Instead of buying any more cables or even going for a PS3 I think I'll just buy like a $50 CRT and stick it in the living room just for the PS2 and stick with the 360 in my room.
 
[quote name='Kanik']Instead of buying any more cables or even going for a PS3 I think I'll just buy like a $50 CRT and stick it in the living room just for the PS2 and stick with the 360 in my room.[/quote]

that's a good idea. my gf doesn't have an HDTV where the PS2 is hooked up so we played Kingdom Hearts and such on a 32" early 90s Sony CRT. it actually doesn't look half bad even without component. and i used to play PS2 via component on a 20" Toshiba flatscreen CRT. that was really nice too.

until my TV got stolen that is. so now it's a 60 GB PS3 via HDMI. i wonder if the emotion chip is the difference. i usually turn smoothing off b/c it makes things look bad, but it depends on the game. it's pretty damn clear with a slight blur on some of the text (like in an RPG).
 
[quote name='crunchewy']Note too that it will depend on the game. Only some PS2 games support progressive scan and/or 16:9. The ones that support both are going to look the best. You can find an (incomplete) list of games here:

http://www.hdtvarcade.com/hdtvforum/index.php?autocom=custom&page=ps2ab[/quote]

Ya, I've been playing God of War and it looks great on progressive and widescreen. But, and I know this will sound very silly, my main reason for buying the PS2 (and potentially a PS3) is just to play Sega Superstars (eyetoy + Samba De Amigo = fun!) and to have a console that will play all of the Legacy of Kain games. Games that are too old to support Progressive or widescreen. :cry:
 
[quote name='Kanik']Ya, I've been playing God of War and it looks great on progressive and widescreen. But, and I know this will sound very silly, my main reason for buying the PS2 (and potentially a PS3) is just to play Sega Superstars (eyetoy + Samba De Amigo = fun!) and to have a console that will play all of the Legacy of Kain games. Games that are too old to support Progressive or widescreen. :cry:[/quote]

I'm not a Legacy of Kain fan but some game(s) of the series did get released to Dreamcast. Same with Samba De Amigo. And Dreamcast can output in VGA (progressive) for nearly all the games.
 
[quote name='laaj']I'm not a Legacy of Kain fan but some game(s) of the series did get released to Dreamcast. Same with Samba De Amigo. And Dreamcast can output in VGA (progressive) for nearly all the games.[/quote]

Ya, I have a dreamcast hooked up (I love Powerstone 2 and Marvel VS Capcom 2). Though I didn't want to pay 60 bucks for the maracas. Plus I think only the original Soul Reaver was released (playing it on the dreamcast is what got me into the series).
 
switch back to standard def cables. too much clarity seen in Ps2 games makes it look worse. use standard cables and you'll be fine.
 
I put my PS2 to 16:9 and use component cables.
No problems on my end.
Luckily though my tv has a good "stretch" mode for those pesky 4:3 games.
 
I have a feeling it might just be that low-end HDTVs don't handle 480i very well.

I think I'm going to try to get a PS3 again, even if it is the 80gb. Minor glitches are definitely better than all games looking like crap.
 
Definitely have to get a PS3 now.

Soul Reaver doesn't boot on the Slim and Blood Omen only takes up a quarter of the screen.
 
Most people have the sharpness setting on their TV turned up too high. A recommendation often given by knowledgeable people is to turn sharpness all the way down. It will look blurry at first, but that is just due to being accustomed to an overly sharp image. Ideally you would use a calibration disc to find the perfect sharpness setting.

Intentionally downgrading to composite or s-video is just softening the image while also degrading the image in other undesirable ways. Turning the sharpness down on a component input will accomplish the same thing.
 
[quote name='Zing']Most people have the sharpness setting on their TV turned up too high. A recommendation often given by knowledgeable people is to turn sharpness all the way down. It will look blurry at first, but that is just due to being accustomed to an overly sharp image. Ideally you would use a calibration disc to find the perfect sharpness setting.

Intentionally downgrading to composite or s-video is just softening the image while also degrading the image in other undesirable ways. Turning the sharpness down on a component input will accomplish the same thing.[/quote]

Thanks, but my sharpness is set to 0, the lowest it can go. :whistle2:(
 
I would like to offer an explanation of why some may think the ps2 looks worse than others.
If you followed the early days of the ps3, it's backward compatibility for ps2 titles was crappy for 480i games. It produced "extra" jaggies because of pixel flipping.
Screenshots and an expanation can be found here:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=808212

This was fixed with a firmware update from Sony.

However, my old ps2 gives the exact same results with 480i games when played using component cables. This is a bug in the ps2's rendering of 480i games over component connections.
This does not happen with my new slim ps2. Sony fixed the problem it would seem. Perhaps it was only broken with a select run of ps2's. Would be nice to know which ones were affected.

Again, the only situation where this effect is seen is with 480i games (final fantasy 12 for example) while using component cables (sony, monster, doesn't matter) and only on certain models of ps2 (and early ps3 firmware) on your hdtv.

(no it doesn't matter the hdtv, I've got 3).
 
[quote name='cliffclaven2']I would like to offer an explanation of why some may think the ps2 looks worse than others.
If you followed the early days of the ps3, it's backward compatibility for ps2 titles was crappy for 480i games. It produced "extra" jaggies because of pixel flipping.
Screenshots and an expanation can be found here:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=808212

This was fixed with a firmware update from Sony.

However, my old ps2 gives the exact same results with 480i games when played using component cables. This is a bug in the ps2's rendering of 480i games over component connections.
This does not happen with my new slim ps2. Sony fixed the problem it would seem. Perhaps it was only broken with a select run of ps2's. Would be nice to know which ones were affected.

Again, the only situation where this effect is seen is with 480i games (final fantasy 12 for example) while using component cables (sony, monster, doesn't matter) and only on certain models of ps2 (and early ps3 firmware) on your hdtv.

(no it doesn't matter the hdtv, I've got 3).[/QUOTE]

Does this happen only on older slim PS2s or does it happen on fat PS2s as well? I have a fat PS2 and don't currently have an HDTV. I want to know if I'm going to need to buy a new slim PS2 if I ever get an HDTV.
 
Of course it also depends on how large the OPs HDTV is. I can barely stand any previous generation games on my TV, the picture is too big and that just magnifies the lower res issues.
 
[quote name='gobz']The only problem i've had with ps2 on HDTV is FF12 which looks god aweful[/QUOTE]

I had the same impressions when I played it on my PS2. It looks tons better on my PS3 though.
 
Looking at the PS2/PS3 comparison screen shots, my fat PS2 (via component cables) looks absolutely nothing like those PS3 images. I'm not sure where you got the idea that the PS2 has the same "bug" as the PS3.

My PS2 via component looks better on my 50" Sony LCDRP TV than my year old 32" Trinitron.
 
[quote name='Zing']Looking at the PS2/PS3 comparison screen shots, my fat PS2 (via component cables) looks absolutely nothing like those PS3 images. I'm not sure where you got the idea that the PS2 has the same "bug" as the PS3.

My PS2 via component looks better on my 50" Sony LCDRP TV than my year old 32" Trinitron.[/quote]


You're not sure where I got the idea? Maybe because I have 2 ps2's and 1 of them exhibits this bug.


regarding ff12 (as I mentioned, a 480i game in my previous post):
[quote name='jimbodan']I had the same impressions when I played it on my PS2. It looks tons better on my PS3 though.[/quote]

I bet you'll find that your ps2 has the bug I mentioned. Look at the images of how the pixels are flipped.
 
[quote name='cliffclaven2']I would like to offer an explanation of why some may think the ps2 looks worse than others.
If you followed the early days of the ps3, it's backward compatibility for ps2 titles was crappy for 480i games. It produced "extra" jaggies because of pixel flipping.
Screenshots and an expanation can be found here:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=808212

This was fixed with a firmware update from Sony.

However, my old ps2 gives the exact same results with 480i games when played using component cables. This is a bug in the ps2's rendering of 480i games over component connections.
This does not happen with my new slim ps2. Sony fixed the problem it would seem. Perhaps it was only broken with a select run of ps2's. Would be nice to know which ones were affected.

Again, the only situation where this effect is seen is with 480i games (final fantasy 12 for example) while using component cables (sony, monster, doesn't matter) and only on certain models of ps2 (and early ps3 firmware) on your hdtv.

(no it doesn't matter the hdtv, I've got 3).[/quote]

Which update was this?
I tried playing ICO a couple of months back and it was horrible. I coudnt even see the wall, edges, etc. May have to go back and try again.
 
[quote name='bmsdaddy']Of course it also depends on how large the OPs HDTV is. I can barely stand any previous generation games on my TV, the picture is too big and that just magnifies the lower res issues.[/quote]

It's only 22 inches. =(

From what I gathered from looking around, the problem is also a TV thing. Apparently some TVs handle lower resolution picture better and upscale it or flip th resolution of the TV to accomodate. Surprise, surprise, when I looked around to see what TVs featured this I was told "almost all Sony HDTVs".

Bah, I'd rather just get the PS3.
 
I have a hand-me-down HDTV (30" PowerSpec) that I've got my fat ps2 hooked up to, and I also get blurry results when trying to play those games that support progressive scan, such as Tomb Raider Legend and Valkyrie Profile 2. I can see a big improvement with component cables over the S-Vid or composite, but the blurriness in progressive makes me keep it off.
 
Just use 480p where availible, otherwise just suck it up and enjoy the game... from what I saw, PS2 with progressive is better than PS3's upscaling.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Just use 480p where availible, otherwise just suck it up and enjoy the game... from what I saw, PS2 with progressive is better than PS3's upscaling.[/quote]


No, that's my point. It looks worse in 480p, therefore I ain't agonna use it.

Okay, I see; I misread the OP. I get blurry results with component cables in progressive scan, OP gets it with composites. I blame Jesus.
 
[quote name='dfg']No, that's my point. It looks worse in 480p, therefore I ain't agonna use it.

Okay, I see; I misread the OP. I get blurry results with component cables in progressive scan, OP gets it with composites. I blame Jesus.[/QUOTE]

That wouldn't seem to make any sense. 480p should definitely give better results on an HDTV. The only reason I can think of that it might not is that the hand-me-down HDTV doesn't support 480p resolution, and so it's doing some sort of wonky conversion that is messing it all up.

I don't have an HDTV (yet), but on my nephews cheap HDTV, 480p definitely looked sharper/better (coming from a Gamecube, in this case), then 480i. So... I think it's your TV. Of course, if that's the TV you've got, that's the TV you've got, so do what looks best on it.
 
Yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe a better description would be it looks more "soft focus" than blurry, but either way I ain't havin' it. I don't have a manual for this TV, but the specs listed for it I found online (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1784917,00.asp) indicate it supports 720p. Am I incorrect in assuming it therefore also supports 480p?
 
[quote name='dfg']Yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe a better description would be it looks more "soft focus" than blurry, but either way I ain't havin' it. I don't have a manual for this TV, but the specs listed for it I found online (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1784917,00.asp) indicate it supports 720p. Am I incorrect in assuming it therefore also supports 480p?[/quote]

Are you sure it's just some games? Are you sure it isn't... everything?
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Are you sure it's just some games? Are you sure it isn't... everything?[/quote]

I'm not following you. Not every game supports progressive scan. Those that don't look fine. In those that do, the difference in sharpness between progressive scan enabled and not becomes quite apparent.
 
[quote name='laaj']Hmm... are you sure about this? I remember reading somewhere that PS2 games look worse on PS3. No I'm not a 360 fanboy since I plan on getting a PS3 near the end of its life like PS2.[/quote]


He sounds like hes speaking from expierence and not something he read.
 
[quote name='Phryo88']He sounds like hes speaking from expierence and not something he read.[/quote]

Did the word "reading" give you that idea?
 
Do you need the internet to get the firmware update, or do the newer models come already updated? I ask because I'm considering getting a PS3, but don't have high-speed internet at home (I know I'm low-tech, but a years worth of comcast costs well more than the PS3 Metal Gear bundle that I'm considering). Aside from Metal Gear my biggest reason to have a PS3 is to upscale my PS2 gams, but if that feature is messed up then I won't even bother getting the system for quite some time.
 
[quote name='cliffclaven2']I would like to offer an explanation of why some may think the ps2 looks worse than others.
If you followed the early days of the ps3, it's backward compatibility for ps2 titles was crappy for 480i games. It produced "extra" jaggies because of pixel flipping.
Screenshots and an expanation can be found here:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=808212

This was fixed with a firmware update from Sony.

However, my old ps2 gives the exact same results with 480i games when played using component cables. This is a bug in the ps2's rendering of 480i games over component connections.
This does not happen with my new slim ps2. Sony fixed the problem it would seem. Perhaps it was only broken with a select run of ps2's. Would be nice to know which ones were affected.

Again, the only situation where this effect is seen is with 480i games (final fantasy 12 for example) while using component cables (sony, monster, doesn't matter) and only on certain models of ps2 (and early ps3 firmware) on your hdtv.

(no it doesn't matter the hdtv, I've got 3).[/QUOTE]

I brought my fat PS2 to my sister's house tonight for some Rock Band. It's a SCPH-39001 model. She has an HDTV and I hooked the PS2 up with a component cable and saw this jagged problem with the display of text at initial start up of the game. If I'm recalling correctly, it's before it confirms whether or not you want to run in progressive scan mode. This would make sense from what you say above, as that means that portion was 480i. After that I think it looked fine, but maybe the text still looked bad? I'm not sure now. In any case, at least some of the time the jaggies were pretty bad.

Do all fat PS2s have this problem, or do later versions of the fat PS2 have this fixed? I would prefer to have a fat PS2 due to the HDD option, but then again, whenever I upgrade to an HDTV I'm going to be sad with my current system. Along those lines, what is the model number of the newest fat-style PS2 produced?
 
Well I took the plunge and bought a 40" LCD (Samsung, LN40A450), and as you might have guessed, PS2 games don't look so good. There isn't much consistency either. Some games look worse than others; some are passable, maybe even "good," relatively speaking, but there is a softness to everything (this is via composite btw). The Gamecube fairs a bit better (also composite).

According to the reviews, this tv handles SD content quite well. While I doubt they were referring to the PS2, I'm hoping that with the right tweaks I can get a decent image.
 
Some things to remember...Component is actually going to make the image sharper....which is going to make it look crappier on a digital set. No Joke.

1) Try turning down the SHARPNESS control...with a 480i game (that has to be converted to whatever resolution your Sammy is...I assume 1080p or 768p at this point) the best you can hope for is a SOFT but smooth picture.

2) Try bumping up the colors a few notches and turning down brightness.....

3) Try an SVideo or even a *GASP* composite cable. See, most sets have fancy 3D Comb filters these days, but they only work on composite connections.....its worth a shot if you hate the picture.

4) Buy a controller extension cable and sit further back ;)

Ultimately you can't get blood from a stone, so you'll have to accept that the PS2's graphics are, well, like that. On a 36" 4:3 set that was throwing out maybe 400 or so lines of total resolution those games looked awesome....but those days are over.
 
The more I adjust things the more I realize that the PQ is actually quite good...when it's not in motion. There's more noticeable aliasing, but otherwise it looks nice. Once the camera begins to move though it all smears. I thought perhaps the response time wasn't low enough (it's 6ms), but other sources look fine, SD and HD.
 
So I hooked up my ps2 via s-video to my HDTV LCD...yikes!

got generic component cables and set it to component mode....even more yikes!!
 
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