Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

CAGcast #125: Everything is Broken


  • Please log in to reply
134 replies to this topic

#31 krazy14kraz

krazy14kraz

    www.thatgamingsite.com

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 10:07 AM

finally. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

#32 C_sTyLe

C_sTyLe

Posted 07 July 2008 - 11:03 AM

Buying MGS4 is a waste of money if you haven't finished any of the past MGS games. Wombat completing MGS4 was a huge waste of time.He never completed MGS,2 or MGS3.The game answers your questions from the those past games.MGS4 is popular for its story.Wombat please go back and complete MGS2 and 3.I know you will like MGS3.:D

Edited by C_sTyLe, 07 July 2008 - 11:08 AM.


#33 Steph

Steph

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 11:30 AM

I saw 'Eastern Promises' back in January, good movie. If there's one thing I remember from that film, it's that sauna scene. I think it's scarred me for life...

(Especially since I watched it with my in-laws. Awkward!)

Also: thanks for the mention, Cheapy! 8-)

Edited by Steph, 07 July 2008 - 11:32 AM.


#34 M1C13

M1C13

    AKA MCHammer XIII

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:43 PM

I have the Rain forest jumperoo as well, watch out because my daughter has crapped herself at least 5 times on that thing, we luckily had a plastic mat under the jumper. You didn't mention this one but there is also the rain forest pack and play crib.
Posted Image

#35 The Great Muta

The Great Muta

Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:44 PM

Nice movie recommendations, the fight scene in Eastern Promises is epic.

Bizarre Foods is too disgusting for me but I love Anthony Bourdain's No Reservations.


Anthony Bourdain is the Jesus of food.

What's the title of that encyclopedia Wombat has? Where can I find it?


I assume it's this he references. It's huge and has the power to break toes. Beware, Wombat.

While I think Dyack went on way too long on the podcast, but there are a couple of points that I think where he was right:

First, NeoGAF does have an influence. He was pointing specifically to Chris Kohler, who posts at NeoGAF and, for some reason, wants the validation of NeoGAF readers. He wrote the "negative" preview that Dyack referred to on the podcast and posted pictures of the game to prove that he finished (and, therefore, has the right to say that the game is crap). So, if GAF is effecting the way that the press cover the game, then there may be at the very least a small effect on sales.

Second, while I do agree that he took the long, long, long route to get to his point, he is right that people place too much emphasis on metacritic or gamerankings numbers. He was basically "tricking" EvilLore into throwing out a random metacritic number (90%) in order to show that the only way people can "prove" that a game is good is to refer to an arbitrary number.

The other stuff he brought up is kind of weird. I haven't been on GAF long enough to know if they go around changing user "ranks" to make fun of posters or if it's all in good fun. I mean, I guess if CheapyD or one of the mods changed my "rank" here from CAGaversary to "Shit eating Canadian asshole" (or, more likely, something much worse), I might take it personally and not want to post here anymore. But again, I don't know if they do it there just for laughs.
I don't think anyone comitted suicide because of a GAF post though... at least, I hope not. (Although, I have no doubt that Jeff Bell is quiting in part because of the fact that he PMed a user there).


I concur with the opinion that people place way too much importance on Metacritic scores. Game score is a gimmick used to satisfy game companies. People who place significant importance on them and live vicariously through the reviewer are lazy. The only way to truly judge a game for oneself is to play it. There have been many instances where a game receives a ton of acclaim but I wind up wondering what they were thinking. I'm looking at you, Halo 3 and Grand Theft Auto 4.

#36 Nephlabobo

Nephlabobo

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:48 PM

Buying MGS4 is a waste of money if you haven't finished any of the past MGS games. Wombat completing MGS4 was a huge waste of time.


How was it a waste of time? He said the story was hard to follow and he enjoyed it.

Where's the waste?

#37 blacksanta87

blacksanta87

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:10 PM

Beer+weed+CAGcast = Great times

#38 steverl22

steverl22

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:20 PM

Damn good show wombat l!!

Couch sitting cow

#39 Zip_Zap_Rap

Zip_Zap_Rap

Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:22 PM

Woof.....

While Dyack may not have put together an argument in a easily digestiable way, his only mistake was the venue.

Clearly both Cheapy and Wombat weren't willing to parse his statement and consider his actual thesis.

Dyack's statements are too far from academic to be found in peer-reviewed journals, and too far from consumable from the average 1up listener.

.....and here I am making the same mistake. Wrong place.

Bottom line is Cheapy and Wombat's "advice" to Dyack was pretty close to a synopsis of the problems with forums Dyack points to. The abuse of mods is making it impossible for people to effectively communicate a dissenting opinion.

Edited by Zip_Zap_Rap, 07 July 2008 - 02:29 PM.


#40 CheapyD

CheapyD

    Head Cheap Ass

  • Administrators

Posted 07 July 2008 - 03:15 PM

Dyack is the President of a game development studio. There is no justifiable reason why he should be spending time and energy mixing it up on a gaming message board, especially considering that he's got a game coming out very soon that will have a huge impact on the success of his company. If he wants to take up issues which he feels are important to the gaming industry, perhaps he should have waited until several months after the release of Too Human.

If General Motors had a new car coming out which was getting some early negative press in car magazines and enthusiast message boards, do you think the President of GM would get on his computer and arguing with potential customers?

Whether its under the guise of some grand social experiment, or it's just plan insecurity, I think Dyack does his company (and its employees) a great a disservice by not having the willpower to just let it be. Maybe he step-down from his current position and and answer his true calling as an anthropologist.

#41 LiK

LiK

    Internet Superstar

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 04:01 PM

listening to the show...

WOW, Wombat likes MGS4?? Am I dreaming? YAY, I love the MGS series, thanks for giving it a chance dude. I was really glad to hear Wombat say good things about it. It's a lot more satisfying if you played the previous games but it's still a good story with lots of good gameplay. Let's hear it for Wombat! :applause:

btw, i got the 2.40 firmware as soon as it was released and it works fine on my 60GB PS3.:bouncy:

Cheapy, you still haven't watched Hulk yet? GREAT movie. It ranks close to the Iron Man movie, imo.

P.S. thank gawd the Mikey situation was resolved.
63362.png
Blog | Twitter
"You lazy f*ck!" - Artie Lange to CheapyD on 8/31/09

#42 Treythalomew

Treythalomew

    Add me on PSN!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 04:20 PM

CheapyD's opinion on Dennis Dyack was great especially after just listening to this weeks 1UP right before it. He had points that seemed logical but had nothing to do with the fact that he was just hurt that people at a game forum don't like his game. He cried that they hadn't played it so they can't say anything. He obviously has pull with his company since he's president why didn't he plan to make a demo. A demo would silence all this mess.

Edited by Treythalomew, 07 July 2008 - 04:23 PM.

Posted Image

#43 vosos102

vosos102

Posted 07 July 2008 - 04:28 PM

A History of Violence and Eastern Promises aren't very obscure at all--certainly not enough to suggest that people have never heard of them. Viggo was nominated for best actor in Promises last year.

#44 LiK

LiK

    Internet Superstar

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 04:41 PM

HOLY SHIT, Cheapy never played Chrono Trigger??? One of the best RPGS of all time. Cheapy, you should check it out, but i doubt it. :(
63362.png
Blog | Twitter
"You lazy f*ck!" - Artie Lange to CheapyD on 8/31/09

#45 banodyne

banodyne

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 04:54 PM

Cheapy, obscure funny movie I think you'd like - Fido. Like the end of Shaun of Dead, people have domesticated zombies. A kid gets really attached to his new pet.

#46 BigShowB4

BigShowB4

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 05:47 PM

Cheapy you need to watch some new shows. Battlestar Galactica went downhill ever since they tried to colonize that new planet.

I suggest you look into 'Dexter' from Showtime. It's about a serial killer who kills only murderers. The series is amazing, and based on your movie recommendations, you'd probably like it a lot. The first two seasons are some of the best TV I've seen.

Edited by MysteryMan2333, 07 July 2008 - 05:49 PM.


#47 thorbahn3

thorbahn3

    Everyone talks too much!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 05:58 PM

Good episode but I wondering what Cheapy's take on Guitar Hero Aerosmith was. Guess I'll wait for Friday which isn't too long away. Also Cheapy's props to Wombat about comments not getting to him was a bit touching and good advice for everyone.
My Indie Game:
Spoiler

#48 Phished0ne

Phished0ne

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:06 PM

Great show, I enjoyed the discussion, as usual. On the Dyack issue, I don't know what interview you guys were listening to. Dennis is an interesting character and i think you guys have him pegged wrong. It seems like hes really invested in this message board thing. I do agree that it was wrong for him to send out an entire-build preview, but i do think it is wrong for websites to basically post a review without a number(on a preview-build, be it a full-game or not). I think a lot of the things he talked about in that "interview" are interesting areas. Moderators SHOULD do their jobs, or else why are they mods? He stated times that people on that board are not attacking his games BUT HIM PERSONALLY..that is different. Espically if your not someone who does something like a podcast(regularly). I could say "I dont like the podcast because Wombat is a jerK"(he isnt, Wombat's a pretty cool dude), and that could be valid because his personality effects the Podcast directly. But if someone says "Too human looks like a horrible game, and Dennis Dyack must be suffereing from autisim if he thinks people will buy it", theres no reason to insult DD because his personality has nothing to do with the quality of the game. Now i don't know whats been going down on the GAF( i dont go there) but i think there is no need for personal attacks, and i also dont think theres a need for members of the forum to be behaving in trollish ways to try and get someone in the industry's attention. I dont know if thats the reputation NeoGAF has, but i still think its unneccary behavior.

Edited by Phished0ne, 07 July 2008 - 06:17 PM.


#49 Jest

Jest

    Take this!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:10 PM

Weird, I just watched Eastern Promises the night before the CAGcast came out. Despite the copious amounts of man meat I really liked it.

#50 krazy14kraz

krazy14kraz

    www.thatgamingsite.com

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:23 PM

Cheapy lets face it. Evveerryybody knows that the future of promotion is in video game forums. Dyack is just a smart guy who is inenting this new type of promotion. haha any who. Can I just say that this whole thing about how you never got an invitation from Microsoft pisses me off. It goes to show how Nelson and his community team has become a bunch of snobby Fucks. I say that the CAG community starts a campaign to DESTROY Microsoft. I mean how can they snub Cheap Ass Gamer when, you, Cheapy have been so nice to them. And Wombat... as a fellow jew and a person with no German lineage what so ever I can totally agree that the people running XBOX are nazis. Except for Nelson Rodriguez. He is cool and Achievment Junkie is a good podcast.

#51 willardhaven

willardhaven

    Thief of Life

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:28 PM

Cheapy and Wombat, you should try to suspend your distaste for Japanese RPGs and give Chrono Trigger a shot. It's one of the most accessible JRPGs and probably the best thing coming out for the DS this holiday season.

PaulManda.png


#52 Zip_Zap_Rap

Zip_Zap_Rap

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:30 PM

Dyack is the President of a game development studio. There is no justifiable reason why he should be spending time and energy mixing it up on a gaming message board, especially considering that he's got a game coming out very soon that will have a huge impact on the success of his company. If he wants to take up issues which he feels are important to the gaming industry, perhaps he should have waited until several months after the release of Too Human.

If General Motors had a new car coming out which was getting some early negative press in car magazines and enthusiast message boards, do you think the President of GM would get on his computer and arguing with potential customers?

Whether its under the guise of some grand social experiment, or it's just plan insecurity, I think Dyack does his company (and its employees) a great a disservice by not having the willpower to just let it be. Maybe he step-down from his current position and and answer his true calling as an anthropologist.



I couldn't disagree more. Game designers, as the author's of discoursivity, have a responsibilty to be aware of, and contribute, to the development of the study of said discourse.

This of course can be placed in tension with a responsibility to a studio. However, the subject of this particular conversation revolves around the long term effects of the currect state of the relationship between NEOGAF (and similarly elegedly harmful entities) and the industry.

If Denis is correct (which is debatable, but certainly not without merit) then even as a company man, the long term survivability for SK is dependent on these problems being addressed now.

His position gives him a priviledged voice, and as an academic I applude his motivation (if not his methods) of trying to open a valuable discussion.

#53 youruglyclone

youruglyclone

    Last Man in Userplane

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:38 PM

Any chance we'll be able to revert to the pop out player for the embedded podcast? since this one only allows you to play and pause...one accidental click and I lost my place.

#54 deadgopher

deadgopher

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:40 PM

Instead of "our top men are working on X" they need to take a page from Futurama and use the phrase, "top voodoo economists."

Posted Image

At least their shit doesn't break every six months, though.
Posted Image

#55 Pojomofo

Pojomofo

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:45 PM

3 things I want to say

1. Love CAG 2.0

2. Completely agree with pretty much everything Denis Dyack had to say on gaf and on 1up yours.

3. PS3 Firmware 2.4 works fine for me, except that SSHD wont update, so still have no trophies :(

#56 Wombat

Wombat

    CAGcast or nothin

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 07:00 PM

I don't think it is a question fo agreeing or disagreeing with Dyack. It is a question of motive, why did he do it? If the boards praised his games he would be singing a different tune right now. He is just preying on people's discontent with certian forums to justify his pile of crap. Don't be fooled by his forum verison of WMDs, when all he really wants is your oil money.

#57 Zip_Zap_Rap

Zip_Zap_Rap

Posted 07 July 2008 - 07:15 PM

I don't think it is a question fo agreeing or disagreeing with Dyack. It is a question of motive, why did he do it? If the boards praised his games he would be singing a different tune right now. He is just preying on people's discontent with certian forums to justify his pile of crap. Don't be fooled by his forum verison of WMDs, when all he really wants is your oil money.


In a post-structuralist world motivation for academic criticism really isn't relevant.

What is important is if the content of the question is valuable.

I parsed his arguement like this.

1. NEOGAF's stated goal is to provide an open (in terms of both freedom and liberty in the truest sense) forum for discussion about video game.

2. NEOGAF's posted rules are intended to maintain this openess. These rules include but are not limited to protect rights of privacy and equally of it's users. The later of which is required for open discussion.

3. Those charged with enforcing the rules of NEOGAF do not equally apply these rules, which in turn creates a grossly uneven power dynamic between the users.

4. This uneven power dynamic limits the freedom and liberties of the users discriminating against user with dissenting opinions or those with little social captial. This negates any chance of open discussion, betraying the stated goals of NEOGAF.

5. History has shown that people in the long term will not tolerate life under this type of power dynamic. NEOGAF will be metaphorically "shut down" which in this case would likely come in the form of migration towards another mode of communication.

Edited by Zip_Zap_Rap, 07 July 2008 - 07:52 PM.


#58 LiK

LiK

    Internet Superstar

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:03 PM

I don't think it is a question fo agreeing or disagreeing with Dyack. It is a question of motive, why did he do it? If the boards praised his games he would be singing a different tune right now. He is just preying on people's discontent with certian forums to justify his pile of crap. Don't be fooled by his forum verison of WMDs, when all he really wants is your oil money.


are you talking about his game? cuz Too Human ain't out yet. what if it's good? i think Dyack is good at creating controversy whether it was intentional or not. he had some good points in his rant even if some of his comments are completely wrong.
63362.png
Blog | Twitter
"You lazy f*ck!" - Artie Lange to CheapyD on 8/31/09

#59 Wombat

Wombat

    CAGcast or nothin

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:26 PM

are you talking about his game? cuz Too Human ain't out yet. what if it's good? i think Dyack is good at creating controversy whether it was intentional or not. he had some good points in his rant even if some of his comments are completely wrong.


I was being facecious about the pile of crap comments. I even said on the show that I am still looking forward to the game.

#60 xgideonx

xgideonx

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:30 PM

RE: Dyack

Dyack was a rambling mess for most of his interview and is clearly deflecting from the very real prospect that his game could be terrible and not worth the controversy and wait. I wonder if he would be as upset about the state of the internet and "reciprocity" in society if the pre/review had been positive. However, I do think he is absolutely right to bring to light the conversation on the awful banter and "bullying" attitude of a lot of forums and internet video gaming culture on the whole.

Great show!

Gideon