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CAGcast #125: Everything is Broken


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#91 GLOCKGLOCK

GLOCKGLOCK

    Too many games...

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:39 PM

Cheapy, good call on the Major Nelson/Nelson theory. I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen down the road.

Also I know I'm a week late, but the winner of the first GS Card, SackSquatch sounded like BigFoot from the Stern show.

Hail to Pitt!


#92 Pojomofo

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:53 PM

I don't think it is a question fo agreeing or disagreeing with Dyack. It is a question of motive, why did he do it? If the boards praised his games he would be singing a different tune right now. He is just preying on people's discontent with certian forums to justify his pile of crap. Don't be fooled by his forum verison of WMDs, when all he really wants is your oil money.


Just because I agree with what he said, doesnt mean I think it was a good idea. I realize its not by chance that he comes out and does this a few months before his game comes out.

After listening to 1up yours again, he does come off a little self-righteous. Maybe his whole "social experment" bit is just sour grapes that people arent liking his game?

#93 Deefuzz

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 02:20 PM

Just starting off this week's show. Cheapy, as soon as you mentioned both of your movie recommendations starred Viggo then I knew exactly what movies you were talking about.

I agree both Eastern Promises and History of Violence are fantastic. I actually think I liked Eastern Promises a little better but it has been a long time since I seen History of Violence.

Wombat, Bizarre Foods is crazy. I just started watching that show recently (that and No Reservations) and it's like a train wreck, it's hard for me to watch but at the same time I can't stop.

Edited by Deefuzz, 08 July 2008 - 02:22 PM.


#94 ObiBen

ObiBen

    Form Titan!

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 02:21 PM

I might be in the minority here, but being a new dad and gamer I enjoy hearing your adventures in parenting as well as all the video game/comic/movie discussions.

FYI Wombat, my daughter would not sleep by herself for about a month. She would only sleep while either my wife or I were holding her. We slept in shifts and I used my time to get in some gaming in the wee hours of the morning. Good Luck!

ObiBen

#95 usickenme

usickenme

    I'm the a-hole

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 02:47 PM

I don't think it is a question fo agreeing or disagreeing with Dyack. It is a question of motive, why did he do it? If the boards praised his games he would be singing a different tune right now. He is just preying on people's discontent with certian forums to justify his pile of crap. Don't be fooled by his forum verison of WMDs, when all he really wants is your oil money.



Comments like this and Cheapy's have me convinced you guys were only half-listening to the interview. He wasn't saying forums are the downfall of society. He was saying lack of responsibility is and forums are an example of this. He never claimed the was going to shut down NeoGAF, he wonder if their breaking of their own rule would cause their downfall. He never said people buy games or not base on a forum post, he did say that out of control forums/blog are affecting journalism as a whole (which I agree with).

I'll admit Dennis was pretty out there but I found the conversation to be quite fascinating and a nice break from the usual Beavis and Butthead routine many podcasts offer.

Also how do you know it is a "pile of crap"?

#96 Wombat

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 03:40 PM

Comments like this and Cheapy's have me convinced you guys were only half-listening to the interview. He wasn't saying forums are the downfall of society. He was saying lack of responsibility is and forums are an example of this. He never claimed the was going to shut down NeoGAF, he wonder if their breaking of their own rule would cause their downfall. He never said people buy games or not base on a forum post, he did say that out of control forums/blog are affecting journalism as a whole (which I agree with).

I'll admit Dennis was pretty out there but I found the conversation to be quite fascinating and a nice break from the usual Beavis and Butthead routine many podcasts offer.

Also how do you know it is a "pile of crap"?



I have already answered the "pile of crap" question in this thread and I said on the show that I am looking forward to the game. And why does NeoGaf need to have standards? It is up to you to stop posting there if you are unhappy with the way they conduct forums, not thier responsibitly to change. Yes it would be a lousy business practice but they have no social responisbilty to do so.

#97 strayfoxx

strayfoxx

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:00 PM

Hey Cheapy,

If you like Cronenberg check out his earlier movie Spider, I believe it has Ralph Fiennes in it. Suspenseful film, less "Hollywood" than even Eastern Promises and a History of Violence. Almost Hitchcockian in a sense.

Also, would suggest In Bruges as well if you are a fan of Ralph Fiennes.

#98 Axion22

Axion22

Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:55 PM

Cheapy, when you mentioned the Americans not knowing their Asians, I was reminded of this past weekend.
I was eating at my favorite sushi restaurant (aptly named, Go Go Japan :drool:) on Saturday, and this family of troglodytes comes in and orders three orders of fried rice, to go. I was appalled. I wanted to tell them there's a Panda Express next door, and perhaps that's where they meant to go. I half-expected them to be thrown out or laughed away. Sadly, no. The chefs were happy to oblige, although I'm sure they had a good laugh about it.

Who orders fried rice at a Japanese place? WHO!?

#99 H.Cornerstone

H.Cornerstone

    LaserCannonDethSentence

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 06:33 PM

Cheapy and Wombat, I just wanted to say that you shouldn't be too worried about Diablo 3 not working on your Macs when it comes out.

Blizzard historically has always made their games work on both high end and very low end computers, and the requirements won't be too daunting. If you look at Starcraft II, the only thing it requires is a Directx 8 video card. :)

If you want to play Diablo 3 when it comes out, there shouldn't be anything stopping you hardware wise.

EDIT:

And I have played MGS 4 all the way to the end of ACT IV, and have to say, while I agree with Wombat that they are long (they are) I wouldn't necessarily say they are drawn out or anything. As I have never played a MGS they explain things I never knew before.

But thats jsut me.

Edited by H.Cornerstone, 10 July 2008 - 07:32 AM.


#100 krazy14kraz

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    www.thatgamingsite.com

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:12 PM

I got a question. So as Ti/Ty/Tie grows older he defiantly needs to get stronger and be able to defend him self. Do you plan, as a father, to teach him how to punch or maybe push him on the ground a couple times so that he gets used to pain and eventually doesn't feel any pain.

#101 usickenme

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:16 PM

I have already answered the "pile of crap" question in this thread and I said on the show that I am looking forward to the game. And why does NeoGaf need to have standards? It is up to you to stop posting there if you are unhappy with the way they conduct forums, not thier responsibitly to change. Yes it would be a lousy business practice but they have no social responisbilty to do so.


Sorry I missed that part.

But Dennis' point was the NeoGAF itself generates the standards and then ignores them for certain members. So you're right to ask "Why does NeoGAF have standards" but you're asking the wrong person. I don't get how NeoGAF is somehow free from scrutiny. Furthermore,, they are most definitely responsible for their own change. If their current practices caused enough people to leave, or encouraged crimminal behavior or resulted in an outside body looking into how it operated, sure as shit they would change. I'm with Dennis in that it is always better to police yourself rather than let someone else do it.

I'm not sure NeoGAF is as bad as he make it out to be but it could be headed that way. I also didn't buy the part about it being a Non-Profit.

#102 ScottG13

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:48 PM

I love Dyack. He entertains me. I hope his game does the same.

The reason he cares about message boards is because he seems to believe in Influence Marketing.

You can argue as to whether this is important in gaming marketing or not. Sometimes critically acclaimed games sell well, sometimes they don't.

Its clear that marketing dollar spend or name recognition is greatest influencer of sales figures.
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#103 Wombat

Wombat

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:50 PM

Do y'all think Dennis Dyack will accept my facebook friend request?

#104 foamking

foamking

Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:57 PM

Depends which Dennis Dyack - the id or the superego. I think the id will respond before the superego. I hear his superego is a jerk.

#105 CAGIronMan

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 08:50 PM

Hey Cheapy, I wanted to let you know of a website that I often go to to watch movies, http://watch-movies.net . They arent the best quality, but still good.
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Wombat: "And I just wanna confuse the f*ck out of everybody."


Playing:
:xbox:Mercenaries, Halo 2

:pc:Cabal Online

#106 LiK

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    Internet Superstar

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:34 PM

Do y'all think Dennis Dyack will accept my facebook friend request?


FOR!
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#107 Ryvvn

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:47 PM

I think Cheapy and Wombat are going a little overboard in their reactions to Denis Dyack's 1Up interview. Sure, some of the things he said may be a bit out there but I still think he made some very good points about such things as the problem with previews in the industry and the slavery to metacritic scores. He also has a point with the whole neogaf story and why he did what he did. Maybe I'm just a nutjob Dyack supporter (I believed in a one console future even before I heard Denis talk about it) and so my opinion matters as much as his does but irregardless of that I still think Cheapy and Wombat took some sort of odd offense to the interview itself and the way Dyack conducts himself in general. I don't even have any intentions on playing Too Human (I got annoyed and stopped caring about the game around the time that Silicon Knights filed suit against Epic) but I can't deny Denis the solid points that he makes and, unlike most of the internet that hates him, he at least makes his arguments in an intelligent way with some sort of foundation to back them up.

#108 Layziebones

Layziebones

Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:50 PM

I just got finished listening to the Cagcast and first off I love Wombat (No Homo). I can't believe anyone could not like him.

I really didn't need the image of Cheapy squeezing one out while playing animal crossing in my head. :)

#109 Razzuel

Razzuel

    People are idiots.

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 12:59 AM

Great show.
I just want to correct your English terms. When you were discussing "bull balls" and such, you said it was good onomatopoeia, but it's actually alliteration. Onomatopoeia are words that mimic sounds such as "bang" and all those great 60s live action Batman TV graphics.


I was getting ready to ask if I was the only one that noticed that.

#110 terpkristin

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 12:59 AM

Great show guys! A few comments...

I definitely like CAG 2.0 so far. While it keeps the look of the previous version (1.0?), it feels better-organized now. Congrats to the CAG 2.0 team!

I agree 100% with Cheapy's analysis that Dyak needs to not concern himself as much with message boards and just focus on making his games. However, that's just not his personality. The bet with NeoGAF is kind of silly, but hey, it fits his personality. And while it's a good thing to know what your hardcore audience wants (by reading message boards, for example), in the end, you're not making the game just for the hardcores. At the close of the day, I don't see Dyak changing, it's just how he is. Maybe the industry is better for it, even if it seems silly now.

On a random side-note, has anybody checked out the iPod game SONG SUMMONER: The Unsung Heroes? Just saw info on it on Kotaku, apparently it's a Square-Enix game for the iPod.

Finally, was cool to hear that I won the contest this week, though moderately weird to hear my voice on the 'cast. And I'm glad Wombat recognized who I am. :) I guess that's the last time I call from my cell phone. ;)

Looking forward to Friday's episode!
/tk

P.S. Wombat, I hope your toe's feeling better. Broken toes are always just a big pile of inconvenient. Also, I'm glad Tai's feeling better. :)
terpkristin
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#111 GTzerO

GTzerO

Posted 09 July 2008 - 02:49 AM

You're a champ, Cheapy. This Tila Tequila shit is mind numbing.

#112 Bezerker

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    Bezerker Barrage!

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 03:04 AM

Hooray for popping my CAGcast mention cherry (though I wish it had been the time when you announced "Bizerk" as the winner of that GTA 4 custom 360)

In response to Cheapy's question about if its okay for a reviewer to pirate a game, as long as you still go out and buy a copy once it comes out; I'm somewhat split down the middle (like Wombat after a night of partying with his co-workers, Zing!)

If they're doing it for a review for the fans of their publication (site, magazine, etc), it would technically be for the greater good, but its still an illegal act in the first place. So, from a legality standpoint, I'd probably say it wasn't okay. However, if I had to make a decision based on morals, I would say go ahead as long as they planned on buying it later.

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#113 kube00

kube00

    Grammar Hammer!

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 05:00 AM

Have you guys never played Chrono Trigger? Come on guys, if you've played Earthbound, you need to play this, an essential SNES RPG, one of the very few I like Have you played Chrono Cross on ps1?

Still a good CAGcast, Cheapy nice mention of Tila Tequila. If I was that guy last season I wouldn't have dumped her, why well she's bisexual, *wink and has some nice "double dragons," or are they more like some well equipped "Commandos"

Just for you Cheapy, I decide to link one of her music videos for ya. The song is called "I love you," its pretty hot. Don't let your wife see you watching it.

WARNING NOT SAFE FOR WORK!!!!! HAS ADULT LANGUAGE but no skin that I know of, just Tila dancing around it hot outfits rapping :drool:

Spoiler

Edited by kube00, 09 July 2008 - 05:31 AM.

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#114 msdmoney

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 06:43 AM

I meant to comment after the last podcast about your question of a reviewer pirating games to obtain an early copy. Often pirated versions of games have issues that legitimate copies of the game don't have. Titan Quest is an example of a game that was allegedly frequently pirated, and gained a reputation as a technically buggy game, because the pirated copies would frequently crash. The developer claims that the game had a game check that would stop the game if it detected that it wasn't an authentic copy. This was transparent to the user, so a lot of people went on forums complaining that the game kept crashing for no reason, when it is very likely they were playing pirated copies. How would the small review site you hypothesize about, know that the version of the game they are playing is final and complete.

I think the general problem though is that gamers reward sites with page views for being first with a review. The way that the smaller site should compete is by employing reviewers that an audience can generally trust and agree with, not trying to compete with timely reviews.

I also don't completely agree with the comments on Denis Dyack. Although I don't necessarily agree with his methods, and some of his examples missed the mark,he does raise some interesting points about the message board mentality. Unfortunately his "for or against" post will be remembered more for its divisiveness than the subtle lesson he was trying to teach GAF about determining the quality of a game before playing it. He missaplied some of his readings about statistics, scientism, and the analogy of GAF to a non-profit, but I don't think he was completely off the mark in describing problems with GAF. I don't think it will be an external force that closes NeoGAF, but I think we will definitely see an implosion of sorts from a discussion that gets out of hand, and the inconsistent moderation will fuel the fire.

#115 sinewav

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 07:05 PM

As much as I want to agree with Dennis Dyack, he has forgotten an early schoolyard lesson: bullies love picking on younger kids because they find a way to get their attention and then they do it over and over again just for amusement. Because of Dennis' repeated attempts to cry foul when anything bad is said about Too Human, he attracted the attention of all modern-day Internet "bullies" to continue attacking him if only because they know they'll get a reaction out of him.

Rather than let the early criticism go, he has tried at every turn to quiet down the haters and instead has caused the opposite effect. To use another similar example, Bioshock had some bad buzz early on and rather than respond Ken Levine stayed quiet and his game released to both a critical and commercial success.

Finally to our dear Wombat, can you please get off your soapbox once ina while and do some research before making your Wom-rants? In your latest Wom-rant on Rock Band 2 if you took the time you would have learned the new RB2 instruments are the same as RB1 just with a new coat of paint. I am all for taking a hard line but please make sure you know the facts before your next Wom-rant, thank you!

Edited by sinewav, 09 July 2008 - 07:26 PM.


#116 Wombat

Wombat

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 08:05 PM

As much as I want to agree with Dennis Dyack, he has forgotten an early schoolyard lesson: bullies love picking on younger kids because they find a way to get their attention and then they do it over and over again just for amusement. Because of Dennis' repeated attempts to cry foul when anything bad is said about Too Human, he attracted the attention of all modern-day Internet "bullies" to continue attacking him if only because they know they'll get a reaction out of him.

Rather than let the early criticism go, he has tried at every turn to quiet down the haters and instead has caused the opposite effect. To use another similar example, Bioshock had some bad buzz early on and rather than respond Ken Levine stayed quiet and his game released to both a critical and commercial success.

Finally to our dear Wombat, can you please get off your soapbox once ina while and do some research before making your Wom-rants? In your latest Wom-rant on Rock Band 2 if you took the time you would have learned the new RB2 instruments are the same as RB1 just with a new coat of paint. I am all for taking a hard line but please make sure you know the facts before your next Wom-rant, thank you!



I think I meant to say guitar hero, maybe, I don't know, I was still filled with red ring rage

#117 doctorfaustus

doctorfaustus

Posted 09 July 2008 - 10:11 PM

har har i learned wombat mooches :P


Heh, you must be new to the cagcast. He's been known to want after free stuff, but he's a likable mooch. Actually, now that I think about it, Wombat hasn't been much of a mooch since he got that gig at UGO.

#118 Shawxn

Shawxn

Posted 09 July 2008 - 11:32 PM

when cheapy went on his gigantic "denis dyack is an insecure prima donna" rant i wasn't exactly sure what he was disagreeing with. the only part that i found a wee bit ridiculous was his insinuation that he could shut down neogaf himself. however, in my opinion that may have been more of a hypothetical suggestion than a practical idea. What exactly were the points that he was disagreeing with?

#119 msdmoney

msdmoney

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 11:53 PM

when cheapy went on his gigantic "denis dyack is an insecure prima donna" rant i wasn't exactly sure what he was disagreeing with. the only part that i found a wee bit ridiculous was his insinuation that he could shut down neogaf himself. however, in my opinion that may have been more of a hypothetical suggestion than a practical idea. What exactly were the points that he was disagreeing with?


It sounded like Cheapy disagreed with Dyack's methods more than the actual content.

#120 outlawmoogle

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 02:44 AM

It sounded less like there wasn't much Nintendo news to discuss this week and more like Cheapy just didn't look for any Nintendo news to discuss.

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