Hannity guest to unveil damning evidence against Obama tonight?
- Thread starter Ruined
- Start date
[quote name='Msut77']
[/QUOTE]
Good post! I think that image perfectly describes the point the "Cult of Personality" subtext of this new book is supposed to drive home.
Guest didn't come on yet. This is apparently the same researcher that came out with the swiftboat vets controversy with Kerry.
From the teaser I heard, I believe the researcher has found insurmountable evidence that Obama studied under Communist and/or Socialist mentors, proves he had ties to African American extremist groups which he studied for a long time, proven ties to fringe radical groups, etc. Also to describe how Obama has been sold with an all general fluff, no specific content message (i.e. yes we can, change, etc, no specifics) - basically running his campaign as a movie celebrity/personality instead of focusing on the specific issues and how to solve them which would be the typical way to run a presidential campaign. (he describes this as a "cult of personality").
Finally he apparently has proof that Obama has lied multiple times to the American people thus far, including the notion that Obama did not know what Wright was preaching. This guy says he had to know, and he has proof.
Also, this is the link to his book:
http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Nation-...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217554164&sr=8-1
I ordered a copy, curious to see what this researcher dug up (again).
Good post! I think that image perfectly describes the point the "Cult of Personality" subtext of this new book is supposed to drive home.
Guest didn't come on yet. This is apparently the same researcher that came out with the swiftboat vets controversy with Kerry.
From the teaser I heard, I believe the researcher has found insurmountable evidence that Obama studied under Communist and/or Socialist mentors, proves he had ties to African American extremist groups which he studied for a long time, proven ties to fringe radical groups, etc. Also to describe how Obama has been sold with an all general fluff, no specific content message (i.e. yes we can, change, etc, no specifics) - basically running his campaign as a movie celebrity/personality instead of focusing on the specific issues and how to solve them which would be the typical way to run a presidential campaign. (he describes this as a "cult of personality").
Finally he apparently has proof that Obama has lied multiple times to the American people thus far, including the notion that Obama did not know what Wright was preaching. This guy says he had to know, and he has proof.
Also, this is the link to his book:
http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Nation-...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217554164&sr=8-1
I ordered a copy, curious to see what this researcher dug up (again).
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[quote name='Ruined']Good post! I think that image perfectly describes the point the "Cult of Personality" subtext of this new book is supposed to drive home.
Guest didn't come on yet. This is apparently the same researcher that came out with the swiftboat vets controversy with Kerry.
I believe the researcher has found insurmountable evidence that Obama studied under Communist and/or Socialist mentors, proves he had ties to African American extremist groups which he studied for a long time, proven ties to fringe radical groups, etc. Also to describe how Obama has been sold with an all general fluff, no specific content message (i.e. yes we can, change, etc, no specifics) - basically running his campaign as a movie celebrity/personality instead of focusing on the specific issues and how to solve them which would be the typical way to run a presidential campaign. (he describes this as a "cult of personality").[/QUOTE]
You are a lunatic, btw you did know that every swiftvet "controversy" was a completely manufactured lie correct?
Guest didn't come on yet. This is apparently the same researcher that came out with the swiftboat vets controversy with Kerry.
I believe the researcher has found insurmountable evidence that Obama studied under Communist and/or Socialist mentors, proves he had ties to African American extremist groups which he studied for a long time, proven ties to fringe radical groups, etc. Also to describe how Obama has been sold with an all general fluff, no specific content message (i.e. yes we can, change, etc, no specifics) - basically running his campaign as a movie celebrity/personality instead of focusing on the specific issues and how to solve them which would be the typical way to run a presidential campaign. (he describes this as a "cult of personality").[/QUOTE]
You are a lunatic, btw you did know that every swiftvet "controversy" was a completely manufactured lie correct?
[quote name='Ruined']
I believe the researcher has found insurmountable evidence that Obama studied under Communist and/or Socialist mentors, proves he had ties to African American extremist groups which he studied for a long time, proven ties to fringe radical groups, etc. Also to describe how Obama has been sold with an all general fluff, no specific content message (i.e. yes we can, change, etc, no specifics) - basically running his campaign as a movie celebrity/personality instead of focusing on the specific issues and how to solve them which would be the typical way to run a presidential campaign. (he describes this as a "cult of personality").
Finally he apparently has proof that Obama has lied multiple times to the American people thus far, including the notion that Obama did not know what Wright was preaching. This guy says he had to know, and he has proof.[/QUOTE]
so youre saying obama had ties with William Ayers who was with the Weather Underground, has been running a campaign, and is a politician that went to church?
I believe the researcher has found insurmountable evidence that Obama studied under Communist and/or Socialist mentors, proves he had ties to African American extremist groups which he studied for a long time, proven ties to fringe radical groups, etc. Also to describe how Obama has been sold with an all general fluff, no specific content message (i.e. yes we can, change, etc, no specifics) - basically running his campaign as a movie celebrity/personality instead of focusing on the specific issues and how to solve them which would be the typical way to run a presidential campaign. (he describes this as a "cult of personality").
Finally he apparently has proof that Obama has lied multiple times to the American people thus far, including the notion that Obama did not know what Wright was preaching. This guy says he had to know, and he has proof.[/QUOTE]
so youre saying obama had ties with William Ayers who was with the Weather Underground, has been running a campaign, and is a politician that went to church?
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']so youre saying obama had ties with William Ayers who was with the Weather Underground, has been running a campaign, and is a politician that went to church?[/QUOTE]
No, hehe. Much more than what is known already was revealed even in the teaser... Just keep watching
No, hehe. Much more than what is known already was revealed even in the teaser... Just keep watching
[quote name='Ruined']This is apparently the same "researcher" that came out with the swiftboat vets controversy with Kerry.[/QUOTE]
Fixed.
[quote name='Ruined']From the teaser I heard, I believe the researcher has found insurmountable evidence that Obama studied under Communist and/or Socialist mentors[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I thought we've all established Obama went to college.
[quote name='Ruined']Also, this is the link to his book:
http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Nation-...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217554164&sr=8-1[/QUOTE]
Oooh, it's *Jerome Corsi* ... that explains it. His "evidence" never gets more airtight than a fishnet. I'm sure his schtick will play well with the folks who already think Obama's Muslim, but for anyone with some kind of critical facilities ... not so much.
Fixed.
[quote name='Ruined']From the teaser I heard, I believe the researcher has found insurmountable evidence that Obama studied under Communist and/or Socialist mentors[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I thought we've all established Obama went to college.
[quote name='Ruined']Also, this is the link to his book:
http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Nation-...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217554164&sr=8-1[/QUOTE]
Oooh, it's *Jerome Corsi* ... that explains it. His "evidence" never gets more airtight than a fishnet. I'm sure his schtick will play well with the folks who already think Obama's Muslim, but for anyone with some kind of critical facilities ... not so much.
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Well, I can understand not being in support of his policy, but what smoking gun are expecting to surface here?[/QUOTE]
I'm not expecting anything. But if something does, I can say "I told you so!" now.
Otherwise, I'll just have to wait until he botches his presidency. I don't have very high confidence in his ability to fix things, particularly with his policies.
I'm not expecting anything. But if something does, I can say "I told you so!" now.
Otherwise, I'll just have to wait until he botches his presidency. I don't have very high confidence in his ability to fix things, particularly with his policies.
[quote name='Liquid 2']I'm not expecting anything. But if something does, I can say "I told you so!" now.
Otherwise, I'll just have to wait until he botches his presidency. I don't have very high confidence in his ability to fix things, particularly with his policies.[/QUOTE]
You live a sad and pathetic existence.
Otherwise, I'll just have to wait until he botches his presidency. I don't have very high confidence in his ability to fix things, particularly with his policies.[/QUOTE]
You live a sad and pathetic existence.
Gothic Walrus
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[quote name='Liquid 2']I'm not expecting anything. But if something does, I can say "I told you so!" now.
Otherwise, I'll just have to wait until he botches his presidency. I don't have very high confidence in his ability to fix things, particularly with his policies.[/QUOTE]
"Botches" is relative. Clinton made some bad decisions but I'd say that we came out for the better after eight years of him. Obama can and will screw up at some point, but the question is what kind of fallout we'll see.
Even with any doubts I have about Obama, I've got even less faith in McCain.
Otherwise, I'll just have to wait until he botches his presidency. I don't have very high confidence in his ability to fix things, particularly with his policies.[/QUOTE]
"Botches" is relative. Clinton made some bad decisions but I'd say that we came out for the better after eight years of him. Obama can and will screw up at some point, but the question is what kind of fallout we'll see.
Even with any doubts I have about Obama, I've got even less faith in McCain.
Ikohn4ever
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[quote name='Liquid 2']It'd be nice if it happened, but I'm not holding me breath.
Regardless, I'll get my "I told you so!" sooner or later.[/quote]
well I just got my Liquid is pathetic baby "told you so" so I guess anything is possible
Regardless, I'll get my "I told you so!" sooner or later.[/quote]
well I just got my Liquid is pathetic baby "told you so" so I guess anything is possible
It's going to be confirmation that this happened FO' REAL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MceFVpJ-Gyc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MceFVpJ-Gyc
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']"Botches" is relative. Clinton made some bad decisions but I'd say that we came out for the better after eight years of him. Obama can and will screw up at some point, but the question is what kind of fallout we'll see.
Even with any doubts I have about Obama, I've got even less faith in McCain.[/QUOTE]I happen to think we'll come off worse in the end.
And just because I don't support Obama, it doesn't mean I support McCain (or Bush, as some of the dickbutts here instantly assume
).
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']well I just got my Liquid is pathetic baby "told you so" so I guess anything is possible[/QUOTE]
...What?
Speak with your head, not your ass. At least make your insults coherent, mmkay?
Even with any doubts I have about Obama, I've got even less faith in McCain.[/QUOTE]I happen to think we'll come off worse in the end.
And just because I don't support Obama, it doesn't mean I support McCain (or Bush, as some of the dickbutts here instantly assume
).[quote name='Ikohn4ever']well I just got my Liquid is pathetic baby "told you so" so I guess anything is possible[/QUOTE]
...What?
Speak with your head, not your ass. At least make your insults coherent, mmkay?
[quote name='Liquid 2']Ahahahahahahaha.
Oh man. I'm
ing crying from laughter over here. 
[/QUOTE]
There are pantsless homeless people currently raving on streetcorners with more credibility than this guy.
It just goes to show that scumbags like you and Corsi are not concerned with anything but trying to spread as many idiotic lies as you feel you can get away with.
Oh man. I'm
ing crying from laughter over here. [/QUOTE]There are pantsless homeless people currently raving on streetcorners with more credibility than this guy.
It just goes to show that scumbags like you and Corsi are not concerned with anything but trying to spread as many idiotic lies as you feel you can get away with.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='anomynous']So what happened?[/quote]
Nobody watched. They were too busy bashing each other here.
Nobody watched. They were too busy bashing each other here.
?[quote name='anomynous']So what happened?[/QUOTE]
They briefly touched on the points in the teaser then said that there would be a full hour-long special with the author on Hannity's America tomorrow. Probably the more damaging things they said tonight were revealing the names of a number of Obama's communist/socialist/extremist mentors and the role they played in his life/studies over his lifespan, touching on how Obama lied to the public regarding major controversial figures in his life, Obama's support of radical foreign leaders (i.e. Odinga), and stating that Obama supported abortions even after the baby is born alive if the mother didn't want it based on his past political doings. Meat and potatoes coming tomorrow on Hannity's America and in the book, though we will see if the repubs can market this as well as they did the swiftboat vets.
They briefly touched on the points in the teaser then said that there would be a full hour-long special with the author on Hannity's America tomorrow. Probably the more damaging things they said tonight were revealing the names of a number of Obama's communist/socialist/extremist mentors and the role they played in his life/studies over his lifespan, touching on how Obama lied to the public regarding major controversial figures in his life, Obama's support of radical foreign leaders (i.e. Odinga), and stating that Obama supported abortions even after the baby is born alive if the mother didn't want it based on his past political doings. Meat and potatoes coming tomorrow on Hannity's America and in the book, though we will see if the repubs can market this as well as they did the swiftboat vets.
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[quote name='Ruined']They briefly touched on the points in the teaser then said that there would be a full hour-long special on it tomorrow. Probably the more damaging things they said tonight were revealing the names of a number of Obama's communist/socialist/extremist mentors over his lifespan, touching on how Obama lied to the public regarding his background, and stating that Obama supported abortions even after the baby is born alive if the mother didn't want it. Meat and potatoes coming tomorrow and in the book, though we will see if the repubs can market this as well as they did the swiftboat vets.[/QUOTE]
Again I ask if you are aware that the swiftboaters did nothing but peddle a mess of lies?
Or by all means continue smearing shit on the walls.
Again I ask if you are aware that the swiftboaters did nothing but peddle a mess of lies?
Or by all means continue smearing shit on the walls.
Gothic Walrus
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Is it just me, or does Ruined's post sound a lot like we're heading back into the "Obama is a secret Muslim" waters?
[quote name='Msut77']Again I ask if you are aware that the swiftboaters did nothing but peddle a mess of lies?[/QUOTE]
If it's enough to affect how people think of a candidate, does it really matter?
The campaign was a complete load of crap, but it still hurt John Kerry's campaign.
[quote name='Msut77']Again I ask if you are aware that the swiftboaters did nothing but peddle a mess of lies?[/QUOTE]
If it's enough to affect how people think of a candidate, does it really matter?
The campaign was a complete load of crap, but it still hurt John Kerry's campaign.
[quote name='Msut77']Again I ask if you are aware that the swiftboaters did nothing but peddle a mess of lies?
Or by all means continue smearing shit on the walls.[/QUOTE]
While the Swiftboat Vets may have not been correct across the board, Kerry admitted that he had "misspoke" on several of their original points, which is rather telling of their accuracy.
Also, the swiftvets campaign was nothing new. It started long before the Kerry election, the election just gave them a new audience.
Or by all means continue smearing shit on the walls.[/QUOTE]
While the Swiftboat Vets may have not been correct across the board, Kerry admitted that he had "misspoke" on several of their original points, which is rather telling of their accuracy.
Also, the swiftvets campaign was nothing new. It started long before the Kerry election, the election just gave them a new audience.
[quote name='Ruined']While the Swiftboat Vets may have not been correct across the board, Kerry admitted that he had "misspoke" on several of their original points, which is rather telling of their accuracy.[/QUOTE]
"... may not have been correct across the board." That's one way of putting it, I suppose. Like, "complete and total fabrications" are technically not correct across the board ... or ... at all, really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth#Truth_of_allegations
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']you forgot drinking. that was the right choice... a choice for any great american.[/QUOTE]
I stand corrected. I salute you, as a proud Liquor-American.
"... may not have been correct across the board." That's one way of putting it, I suppose. Like, "complete and total fabrications" are technically not correct across the board ... or ... at all, really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth#Truth_of_allegations
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']you forgot drinking. that was the right choice... a choice for any great american.[/QUOTE]
I stand corrected. I salute you, as a proud Liquor-American.
[quote name='Ruined']While the Swiftboat Vets may have not been correct across the board.[/QUOTE]
Spare me your BS, the swifties lied through their teeth about pretty much everything.
As it is now you have shown yourself not to give a damn about the truth, your use of the word "researcher" when you actually mean to say con artist is proof enough of that.
Spare me your BS, the swifties lied through their teeth about pretty much everything.
As it is now you have shown yourself not to give a damn about the truth, your use of the word "researcher" when you actually mean to say con artist is proof enough of that.
mykevermin
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[quote name='RAMSTORIA']you forgot drinking. that was the right choice... a choice for any great american.[/QUOTE]
Which is totally what I was doing.
Now watch as I react with a "jerking off" hand gesture as I hear the name "Jerome Corsi, Ph.ingD."
Yeah, 'cuz Donna Brazile and Bill Bennett are just as valid in isolating and voting on their viewpoints as this bastard.
Which is totally what I was doing.
Now watch as I react with a "jerking off" hand gesture as I hear the name "Jerome Corsi, Ph.
ingD."Yeah, 'cuz Donna Brazile and Bill Bennett are just as valid in isolating and voting on their viewpoints as this bastard.
Tell you what, let's assume the following:
Obama is:
1. A Muslim.
2. Had communist/socialist mentors (and we'll go so far as to assume he actually agrees with their logic, like you expect us to).
3. Knew what Rev. Wright was preaching.
and just to make things interesting,
4. Let's say it's been confirmed that Obama eats babies after they've been dipped in the blood of a goat 3-4 times a week.
Now, without making any direct/indirect comparison to Obama (i.e. Obama is inexperienced, John McCain isn't), let's hear why John McCain will make a better President of the United States of America, preferably with some examples.
~HotShotX
Obama is:
1. A Muslim.
2. Had communist/socialist mentors (and we'll go so far as to assume he actually agrees with their logic, like you expect us to).
3. Knew what Rev. Wright was preaching.
and just to make things interesting,
4. Let's say it's been confirmed that Obama eats babies after they've been dipped in the blood of a goat 3-4 times a week.
Now, without making any direct/indirect comparison to Obama (i.e. Obama is inexperienced, John McCain isn't), let's hear why John McCain will make a better President of the United States of America, preferably with some examples.
~HotShotX
Trancendental
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[quote name='Liquid 2']Ahahahahahahaha.
Oh man. I'm ing crying from laughter over here. [/quote]
Every post you make paints you as someone who is more concerned with being self-righteous then someone who actually cares about what's best for the country.
I find it ironic that the conservatives are quick to label a self-confident, charismatic leader as a snob when they are the poster children of parading around defending imperious administrations, working to legislate their personal morality, and generally acting as if they were endorsed by the Christian God himself.
Oh man. I'm ing crying from laughter over here. [/quote]
Every post you make paints you as someone who is more concerned with being self-righteous then someone who actually cares about what's best for the country.
I find it ironic that the conservatives are quick to label a self-confident, charismatic leader as a snob when they are the poster children of parading around defending imperious administrations, working to legislate their personal morality, and generally acting as if they were endorsed by the Christian God himself.
[quote name='HotShotX']Yes, reading the directions would have been a good start.
I said don't make direct/indirect comparisons.
~HotShotX[/QUOTE]I don't get it. You want me to say how someone will be a better president than someone else without comparing the two?
The question itself inherently requires comparison.
"~Liquid 2"
[quote name='camoor']Every post you make paints you as someone who is more concerned with being self-righteous then someone who actually cares about what's best for the country.
I find it ironic that the conservatives are quick to label a self-confident, charismatic leader as a snob when they are the poster children of parading around defending imperious administrations, working to legislate their personal morality, and generally acting as if they were endorsed by the Christian God himself.[/QUOTE]I have a different idea of what's best for the country than you do.
And I'm not conservative, nor do I defend Bush's administration, nor do I subscribe to a religion.
And I've never called Obama a snob.
I hope your response has a shred of fact in in it.
I said don't make direct/indirect comparisons.
~HotShotX[/QUOTE]I don't get it. You want me to say how someone will be a better president than someone else without comparing the two?
The question itself inherently requires comparison.
"~Liquid 2"
[quote name='camoor']Every post you make paints you as someone who is more concerned with being self-righteous then someone who actually cares about what's best for the country.
I find it ironic that the conservatives are quick to label a self-confident, charismatic leader as a snob when they are the poster children of parading around defending imperious administrations, working to legislate their personal morality, and generally acting as if they were endorsed by the Christian God himself.[/QUOTE]I have a different idea of what's best for the country than you do.
And I'm not conservative, nor do I defend Bush's administration, nor do I subscribe to a religion.
And I've never called Obama a snob.
I hope your response has a shred of fact in in it.
[quote name='Liquid 2']I have a different idea of what's best for the country than you do.[/QUOTE]
Cons want to turn the US into a third world country, what in the world makes you think we will just have to agree to disagree about that?
A previous poster had you pegged, you sit here giggling like a schoolgirl about what lies and petty nonsensical smears you think you can spread.
Cons want to turn the US into a third world country, what in the world makes you think we will just have to agree to disagree about that?
A previous poster had you pegged, you sit here giggling like a schoolgirl about what lies and petty nonsensical smears you think you can spread.
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[quote name='HotShotX']Tell you what, let's assume the following:
Obama is:
1. A Muslim.
2. Had communist/socialist mentors (and we'll go so far as to assume he actually agrees with their logic, like you expect us to).
3. Knew what Rev. Wright was preaching.
and just to make things interesting,
4. Let's say it's been confirmed that Obama eats babies after they've been dipped in the blood of a goat 3-4 times a week.
Now, without making any direct/indirect comparison to Obama (i.e. Obama is inexperienced, John McCain isn't), let's hear why John McCain will make a better President of the United States of America, preferably with some examples.
~HotShotX[/QUOTE]
Assuming your points, my main issues would be:
1. McCain will not turn America into a socialist economy, no redistribution of wealth. That model has proven a failure time and time again in the past, and it is unfair to those who have worked hard and long for their wealth.
2. McCain will not further cripple America's ability to tap into their own natural resources, and hence has a better energy plan. McCain is for offshore drilling & other measures to increase domestic supply as well as exploiting nuclear power more, Obama is for tire inflation to improve gas mileage and walking to work (most cannot even do the latter). Obama said offshore drilling won't do anything for 10 years; Democrats said the same thing 10 years ago, and if we had made the change back then we would not be in the problematic area we are today... The crisis today would not exist if it we had more supply. Remember prices don't work just on supply numbers, they work on perception. Right now the perception is that America is at the mercy of foreign oil since America has tied its own hands in drilling for domestic oil, thus perception is America is in big trouble as a result. The bottom line is gas prices will likely go down with McCain's energy plan while Obama's will keep things as they are.
3. Even if he did nothing to unite them, McCain would not further divide races - while Obama's mentors who preached hate will drive division even deeper than it is. Hate does not get love. Hate will just incite both races to be more angry and result in even more race relation problems.
4. McCain would not institute National Health Care, meaning I won't have to wait 6 months to get critical surgery I need immediately, especially if private health care is prohibited (which often eventually becomes the case when a nat'l healthcare system is implemented). While National Health Care is not bad in all areas, studies in Canada showed on the average across the country it was very poor compared to private health care. Private health care is obviously much more expensive, but you get what you pay for. I personally want that option, even though I pay a ton of money for it. Obama might not implement this, then again he might. That is concerning to me.
5. McCain has laid out some specifics of his plan, while Obama continues to run on generalizations. What exactly do all of the "Change"s that Obama speaks about so frequently entail? Based on Obama's checkered past radical affiliations, his idea of "change" might become a little scary. Also, we are talking President of the United States here, not class president. It should be about the issues that affect us daily, not a popularity contest.
6. Finally, Obama being a muslim is irrelevant IMO. I don't know why this is brought up so much but it should not be a factor for anyone when voting. I assume we are talking because of 9/11 fears and the large amount of radical muslim leaders/groups that outnumber the normal muslim leaders who speak out against the radical muslim groups. But in Obama's case I don't see it as being applicable.
Anyway, I will watch the Hannity America expose tonight which is an hour-long special on Obama's shady history with this author. We'll see what other stuff they have dug up. Regardless of what is said about Obama thus far, Obama is definitely a more attractive and cool candidiate. But McCain has offered much more substance and to me is more convincing that he actually will know WTF to do if he gets the job. Also having congress all one lopsided party (which would be the case if Obama is elected) means there are no checks and balances which is almost always bad for the average person.
Obama is:
1. A Muslim.
2. Had communist/socialist mentors (and we'll go so far as to assume he actually agrees with their logic, like you expect us to).
3. Knew what Rev. Wright was preaching.
and just to make things interesting,
4. Let's say it's been confirmed that Obama eats babies after they've been dipped in the blood of a goat 3-4 times a week.
Now, without making any direct/indirect comparison to Obama (i.e. Obama is inexperienced, John McCain isn't), let's hear why John McCain will make a better President of the United States of America, preferably with some examples.
~HotShotX[/QUOTE]
Assuming your points, my main issues would be:
1. McCain will not turn America into a socialist economy, no redistribution of wealth. That model has proven a failure time and time again in the past, and it is unfair to those who have worked hard and long for their wealth.
2. McCain will not further cripple America's ability to tap into their own natural resources, and hence has a better energy plan. McCain is for offshore drilling & other measures to increase domestic supply as well as exploiting nuclear power more, Obama is for tire inflation to improve gas mileage and walking to work (most cannot even do the latter). Obama said offshore drilling won't do anything for 10 years; Democrats said the same thing 10 years ago, and if we had made the change back then we would not be in the problematic area we are today... The crisis today would not exist if it we had more supply. Remember prices don't work just on supply numbers, they work on perception. Right now the perception is that America is at the mercy of foreign oil since America has tied its own hands in drilling for domestic oil, thus perception is America is in big trouble as a result. The bottom line is gas prices will likely go down with McCain's energy plan while Obama's will keep things as they are.
3. Even if he did nothing to unite them, McCain would not further divide races - while Obama's mentors who preached hate will drive division even deeper than it is. Hate does not get love. Hate will just incite both races to be more angry and result in even more race relation problems.
4. McCain would not institute National Health Care, meaning I won't have to wait 6 months to get critical surgery I need immediately, especially if private health care is prohibited (which often eventually becomes the case when a nat'l healthcare system is implemented). While National Health Care is not bad in all areas, studies in Canada showed on the average across the country it was very poor compared to private health care. Private health care is obviously much more expensive, but you get what you pay for. I personally want that option, even though I pay a ton of money for it. Obama might not implement this, then again he might. That is concerning to me.
5. McCain has laid out some specifics of his plan, while Obama continues to run on generalizations. What exactly do all of the "Change"s that Obama speaks about so frequently entail? Based on Obama's checkered past radical affiliations, his idea of "change" might become a little scary. Also, we are talking President of the United States here, not class president. It should be about the issues that affect us daily, not a popularity contest.
6. Finally, Obama being a muslim is irrelevant IMO. I don't know why this is brought up so much but it should not be a factor for anyone when voting. I assume we are talking because of 9/11 fears and the large amount of radical muslim leaders/groups that outnumber the normal muslim leaders who speak out against the radical muslim groups. But in Obama's case I don't see it as being applicable.
Anyway, I will watch the Hannity America expose tonight which is an hour-long special on Obama's shady history with this author. We'll see what other stuff they have dug up. Regardless of what is said about Obama thus far, Obama is definitely a more attractive and cool candidiate. But McCain has offered much more substance and to me is more convincing that he actually will know WTF to do if he gets the job. Also having congress all one lopsided party (which would be the case if Obama is elected) means there are no checks and balances which is almost always bad for the average person.
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[quote name='Liquid 2']I don't get it. You want me to say how someone will be a better president than someone else without comparing the two?
The question itself inherently requires comparison.
"~Liquid 2"[/quote]
Ah, correct, I wrote the question wrong.
I want you to tell me why John McCain will make a good President without comparisons to Obama.
As in:
"John McCain's policy is this, and this is why it is good"
NOT
"Obama's policy is this, but McCain won't do that so McCain is better"
I'll break down Ruined's reply bit by bit:
[quote name='Ruined']Assuming your points, my main issues would be:
1. McCain will not turn America into a socialist economy, no redistribution of wealth. That model has proven a failure time and time again in the past, and it is unfair to those who have worked hard and long for their wealth.[/quote]
From what I understand, Obama doesn't follow a plan for the redistribution of wealth, as in a direct "take from the rich, give to the poor" mindset. Rather, that the rich pays higher taxes, while the middle-class pays less, but all of it goes directly to the government for redistribution to all through country maintenance (roads, programs, etc.)
While you and I might argue as to whether or not any of those programs are worthwhile, I'd say that those who make more should be paying more back to the country that gave them the opportunity in the first place, and each citizen can speak as to how that money is used through voting/congressmen.
[quote name='Ruined']2. McCain will not further cripple America's ability to tap into their own natural resources, and hence has a better energy plan. McCain is for offshore drilling & other measures to increase domestic supply as well as exploiting nuclear power more, Obama is for tire inflation to improve gas mileage and walking to work (most cannot even do the latter). Obama said offshore drilling won't do anything for 10 years; Democrats said the same thing 10 years ago, and if we had made the change back then we would not be in the problematic area we are today... The crisis today would not exist if it we had more supply. Remember prices don't work just on supply numbers, they work on perception. Right now the perception is that America is at the mercy of foreign oil since America has tied its own hands in drilling for domestic oil, thus perception is America is in big trouble as a result. The bottom line is gas prices will likely go down with McCain's energy plan while Obama's will keep things as they are.[/quote]
This plan however really only delays the inevitable, that a natural resource such as oil is no longer a suitable source of energy to meet the needs of our country. If we're going to dedicate our nation's funding to an energy source, a path that will take years to result in something fruitful, we should be taking the path to researching and developing a new source of energy for transportation, not oil.
While McCain does support renewable energy, I consider the $300 million payout to be more of a gimmick than the level of dedication we need to achieve it ($300 million is nothing compared to the amount a renewable energy is going to rake in. $300 million would be perfect to start the research up, but it's only awarded after you prove your results, which is useless because at that point money will be thrown at you).
[quote name='Ruined']3. Even if he did nothing to unite them, McCain would not further divide races - while Obama's mentors who preached hate will drive division even deeper than it is. Hate does not get love. Hate will just incite both races to be more angry and result in even more race relation problems.[/quote]
Under the assumption that Obama does believe in these hateful values (which he doesn't), when was the last time a Republican or John McCain voted to support any of the following:
Pro-Choice
Gay Rights (up to and including the recognition of Marriage)
Embryonic Stem-Cell Research
Admittedly, nothing on McCain's website is mentioning anything about race relations, but if anything, Obama IS driving a bit of a wedge into race relations, primarily because he is being critical of blacks who fail to own up to life's responsibilities, something that tends to get him in hot water but hell, the truth hurts. Quite honestly, a vast majority of blacks need a foot up their ass to learn that there is more to life than the "$$$$a" lifestyle, just as many rednecks need to understand that NASCAR is not "God's sport".
Regardless of race, the message is the same: You need to do more with your life than to pump out babies, whether you recognize them or not.
[quote name='Ruined']4. McCain would not institute National Health Care, meaning I won't have to wait 6 months to get critical surgery I need immediately, especially if private health care is prohibited (which often eventually becomes the case when a nat'l healthcare system is implemented). While National Health Care is not bad in all areas, studies in Canada showed on the average across the country it was very poor compared to private health care. Private health care is obviously much more expensive, but you get what you pay for. I personally want that option, even though I pay a ton of money for it.[/quote]
I actually agree with you on this. As much as I'd love to work on a Universal Health Care system for this country that is efficient and works, I can't escape that I'm a firm believer in Darwinism.
[quote name='Ruined']5. McCain has laid out some specifics of his plan, while Obama continues to run on generalizations. What exactly do all of the "Change"s that Obama speaks about so frequently entail? Based on Obama's checkered past radical affiliations, his idea of "change" might become a little scary. Also, we are talking President of the United States here, not class president. It should be about the issues that affect us daily, not a popularity contest.[/quote]
Both candidates have specific details on their plans on their respective websites, which, other than that, doesn't get much detail in their speeches or soundbytes, because each section is several paragraphs long and would take 1-2 hours to cover a single issue entirely. Read over both candidate's websites, and tally up which methods you agree with.
As for "change" being a little scary, we have a political system where we completely change the entire Executive branch of our government every 4 years. Post 9/11 or not, you have to admit that's a major self-imposed breach of security. And you're right, this is NOT a popularity contest, which is why I'm judging the candidates based on the issues they support/oppose, not the colorful people they have been affiliated with in their lives.
[quote name='Ruined']6. Finally, Obama being a muslim is irrelevant IMO. I don't know why this is brought up so much but it should not be a factor for anyone when voting. I assume we are talking because of 9/11 fears and the large amount of radical muslim leaders/groups that outnumber the normal muslim leaders who speak out against the radical muslim groups. But in Obama's case I don't see it as being applicable.[/quote]
Obama isn't a Muslim. His father was, but a parent's religious beliefs do not necessarily pass on to their children, particularly if the parent is not in the child's life after they turn 2. Obama and his family are Christians, but quite frankly I don't give two shits about a politician's religious affiliation, because as we've all seen from both parties, that amounts to jack-shit when controversy pops up every 2 weeks.
[quote name='Ruined']Anyway, I will watch the Hannity America expose tonight which is an hour-long special on Obama's shady history with this author. We'll see what other stuff they have dug up. Regardless of what is said about Obama thus far, Obama is definitely a more attractive and cool candidiate. But McCain has offered much more substance and to me is more convincing that he actually will know WTF to do if he gets the job.[/quote]
Feel free to bring it up in this thread as well, I'm certainly up for an intelligent discussion about it (though I strongly question the quality of intelligence we will get from HA).
~HotShotX
The question itself inherently requires comparison.
"~Liquid 2"[/quote]
Ah, correct, I wrote the question wrong.
I want you to tell me why John McCain will make a good President without comparisons to Obama.
As in:
"John McCain's policy is this, and this is why it is good"
NOT
"Obama's policy is this, but McCain won't do that so McCain is better"
I'll break down Ruined's reply bit by bit:
[quote name='Ruined']Assuming your points, my main issues would be:
1. McCain will not turn America into a socialist economy, no redistribution of wealth. That model has proven a failure time and time again in the past, and it is unfair to those who have worked hard and long for their wealth.[/quote]
From what I understand, Obama doesn't follow a plan for the redistribution of wealth, as in a direct "take from the rich, give to the poor" mindset. Rather, that the rich pays higher taxes, while the middle-class pays less, but all of it goes directly to the government for redistribution to all through country maintenance (roads, programs, etc.)
While you and I might argue as to whether or not any of those programs are worthwhile, I'd say that those who make more should be paying more back to the country that gave them the opportunity in the first place, and each citizen can speak as to how that money is used through voting/congressmen.
[quote name='Ruined']2. McCain will not further cripple America's ability to tap into their own natural resources, and hence has a better energy plan. McCain is for offshore drilling & other measures to increase domestic supply as well as exploiting nuclear power more, Obama is for tire inflation to improve gas mileage and walking to work (most cannot even do the latter). Obama said offshore drilling won't do anything for 10 years; Democrats said the same thing 10 years ago, and if we had made the change back then we would not be in the problematic area we are today... The crisis today would not exist if it we had more supply. Remember prices don't work just on supply numbers, they work on perception. Right now the perception is that America is at the mercy of foreign oil since America has tied its own hands in drilling for domestic oil, thus perception is America is in big trouble as a result. The bottom line is gas prices will likely go down with McCain's energy plan while Obama's will keep things as they are.[/quote]
This plan however really only delays the inevitable, that a natural resource such as oil is no longer a suitable source of energy to meet the needs of our country. If we're going to dedicate our nation's funding to an energy source, a path that will take years to result in something fruitful, we should be taking the path to researching and developing a new source of energy for transportation, not oil.
While McCain does support renewable energy, I consider the $300 million payout to be more of a gimmick than the level of dedication we need to achieve it ($300 million is nothing compared to the amount a renewable energy is going to rake in. $300 million would be perfect to start the research up, but it's only awarded after you prove your results, which is useless because at that point money will be thrown at you).
[quote name='Ruined']3. Even if he did nothing to unite them, McCain would not further divide races - while Obama's mentors who preached hate will drive division even deeper than it is. Hate does not get love. Hate will just incite both races to be more angry and result in even more race relation problems.[/quote]
Under the assumption that Obama does believe in these hateful values (which he doesn't), when was the last time a Republican or John McCain voted to support any of the following:
Pro-Choice
Gay Rights (up to and including the recognition of Marriage)
Embryonic Stem-Cell Research
Admittedly, nothing on McCain's website is mentioning anything about race relations, but if anything, Obama IS driving a bit of a wedge into race relations, primarily because he is being critical of blacks who fail to own up to life's responsibilities, something that tends to get him in hot water but hell, the truth hurts. Quite honestly, a vast majority of blacks need a foot up their ass to learn that there is more to life than the "$$$$a" lifestyle, just as many rednecks need to understand that NASCAR is not "God's sport".
Regardless of race, the message is the same: You need to do more with your life than to pump out babies, whether you recognize them or not.
[quote name='Ruined']4. McCain would not institute National Health Care, meaning I won't have to wait 6 months to get critical surgery I need immediately, especially if private health care is prohibited (which often eventually becomes the case when a nat'l healthcare system is implemented). While National Health Care is not bad in all areas, studies in Canada showed on the average across the country it was very poor compared to private health care. Private health care is obviously much more expensive, but you get what you pay for. I personally want that option, even though I pay a ton of money for it.[/quote]
I actually agree with you on this. As much as I'd love to work on a Universal Health Care system for this country that is efficient and works, I can't escape that I'm a firm believer in Darwinism.
[quote name='Ruined']5. McCain has laid out some specifics of his plan, while Obama continues to run on generalizations. What exactly do all of the "Change"s that Obama speaks about so frequently entail? Based on Obama's checkered past radical affiliations, his idea of "change" might become a little scary. Also, we are talking President of the United States here, not class president. It should be about the issues that affect us daily, not a popularity contest.[/quote]
Both candidates have specific details on their plans on their respective websites, which, other than that, doesn't get much detail in their speeches or soundbytes, because each section is several paragraphs long and would take 1-2 hours to cover a single issue entirely. Read over both candidate's websites, and tally up which methods you agree with.
As for "change" being a little scary, we have a political system where we completely change the entire Executive branch of our government every 4 years. Post 9/11 or not, you have to admit that's a major self-imposed breach of security. And you're right, this is NOT a popularity contest, which is why I'm judging the candidates based on the issues they support/oppose, not the colorful people they have been affiliated with in their lives.
[quote name='Ruined']6. Finally, Obama being a muslim is irrelevant IMO. I don't know why this is brought up so much but it should not be a factor for anyone when voting. I assume we are talking because of 9/11 fears and the large amount of radical muslim leaders/groups that outnumber the normal muslim leaders who speak out against the radical muslim groups. But in Obama's case I don't see it as being applicable.[/quote]
Obama isn't a Muslim. His father was, but a parent's religious beliefs do not necessarily pass on to their children, particularly if the parent is not in the child's life after they turn 2. Obama and his family are Christians, but quite frankly I don't give two shits about a politician's religious affiliation, because as we've all seen from both parties, that amounts to jack-shit when controversy pops up every 2 weeks.
[quote name='Ruined']Anyway, I will watch the Hannity America expose tonight which is an hour-long special on Obama's shady history with this author. We'll see what other stuff they have dug up. Regardless of what is said about Obama thus far, Obama is definitely a more attractive and cool candidiate. But McCain has offered much more substance and to me is more convincing that he actually will know WTF to do if he gets the job.[/quote]
Feel free to bring it up in this thread as well, I'm certainly up for an intelligent discussion about it (though I strongly question the quality of intelligence we will get from HA).
~HotShotX
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[quote name='HotShotX']Ah, correct, I wrote the question wrong.
I want you to tell me why John McCain will make a good President without comparisons to Obama.
As in:
"John McCain's policy is this, and this is why it is good"
NOT
"Obama's policy is this, but McCain won't do that so McCain is better"
~HotShotX[/QUOTE]
Your question is nonsensical. The issues are the most important thing in a presidential race, and sometimes picking the lesser of two evils is what the American people are left with. Just like how many voted for Kerry just so they didn't vote for Bush because they disliked Bush's platform so much. If Obama has a really poor stance on several key issues, it would make sense to prefer/vote for the other candidate because you dislike or fear the potential effects of Obama's policies so much.
As I pointed out above, I think McCain's strongest point right now is energy. I could see McCain's plan lowering gas prices both in short-term and long-term by instituting changes in government energy policies/restrictions combined with gradual hybrid development while Obama seems to be blaming the American people for the problem. McCain's plan affects domestic supply in a big way while gradually affecting demand, while Obama is suggesting changes to demand over time and not much else; I think McCain's plan will be FAR more effective in lowering prices now and in the future since it affects both sides of the equation.
I want you to tell me why John McCain will make a good President without comparisons to Obama.
As in:
"John McCain's policy is this, and this is why it is good"
NOT
"Obama's policy is this, but McCain won't do that so McCain is better"
~HotShotX[/QUOTE]
Your question is nonsensical. The issues are the most important thing in a presidential race, and sometimes picking the lesser of two evils is what the American people are left with. Just like how many voted for Kerry just so they didn't vote for Bush because they disliked Bush's platform so much. If Obama has a really poor stance on several key issues, it would make sense to prefer/vote for the other candidate because you dislike or fear the potential effects of Obama's policies so much.
As I pointed out above, I think McCain's strongest point right now is energy. I could see McCain's plan lowering gas prices both in short-term and long-term by instituting changes in government energy policies/restrictions combined with gradual hybrid development while Obama seems to be blaming the American people for the problem. McCain's plan affects domestic supply in a big way while gradually affecting demand, while Obama is suggesting changes to demand over time and not much else; I think McCain's plan will be FAR more effective in lowering prices now and in the future since it affects both sides of the equation.
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[quote name='Ruined']Your question is nonsensical. The issues are the most important thing in a presidential race, and sometimes picking the lesser of two evils is what the American people are left with. Just like how many voted for Kerry just so they didn't vote for Bush because they disliked Bush's platform so much. If Obama has a really poor stance on several key issues, it would make sense to prefer/vote for the other candidate because you dislike or fear the potential effects of Obama's policies so much.[/quote]
The issues are the most important thing in a Presidential race, that is why I want you to elaborate directly on McCain's policies and why they, standing alone, are good policies. I don't want you to use the "Lesser of two evils" mindset as a scapegoat.
People need to realize that you need to vote for the person you believe would do the best job, not up the country the least, or has the best shot of winning.
[quote name='Ruined']As I pointed out above, I think McCain's strongest point right now is energy. I could see McCain's plan lowering gas prices both in short-term and long-term by instituting changes in government energy policies/restrictions combined with gradual hybrid development while Obama seems to be blaming the American people for the problem. McCain's plan affects domestic supply in a big way while gradually affecting demand, while Obama is suggesting changes to demand over time and not much else; I think McCain's plan will be FAR more effective in lowering prices now and in the future since it affects both sides of the equation.[/quote]
Reread over my prior post (I know I submitted it initially to answer the first CAG and then wrote my entire reply to your comment). Obama is proposing a lot more than changes to demands, check his website.
~HotShotX
The issues are the most important thing in a Presidential race, that is why I want you to elaborate directly on McCain's policies and why they, standing alone, are good policies. I don't want you to use the "Lesser of two evils" mindset as a scapegoat.
People need to realize that you need to vote for the person you believe would do the best job, not
up the country the least, or has the best shot of winning.[quote name='Ruined']As I pointed out above, I think McCain's strongest point right now is energy. I could see McCain's plan lowering gas prices both in short-term and long-term by instituting changes in government energy policies/restrictions combined with gradual hybrid development while Obama seems to be blaming the American people for the problem. McCain's plan affects domestic supply in a big way while gradually affecting demand, while Obama is suggesting changes to demand over time and not much else; I think McCain's plan will be FAR more effective in lowering prices now and in the future since it affects both sides of the equation.[/quote]
Reread over my prior post (I know I submitted it initially to answer the first CAG and then wrote my entire reply to your comment). Obama is proposing a lot more than changes to demands, check his website.
~HotShotX
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[quote name='HotShotX']The issues are the most important thing in a Presidential race, that is why I want you to elaborate directly on McCain's policies and why they, standing alone, are good policies. I don't want you to use the "Lesser of two evils" mindset as a scapegoat.[/QUOTE]
I think Myke tried this a few months ago. Odds are you will be sorely disappointed,
I think Myke tried this a few months ago. Odds are you will be sorely disappointed,
[quote name='HotShotX']The issues are the most important thing in a Presidential race, that is why I want you to elaborate directly on McCain's policies and why they, standing alone, are good policies. I don't want you to use the "Lesser of two evils" mindset as a scapegoat.[/QUOTE]
I think Myke asked this a few months ago. Odds are you will be sorely disappointed,
I think Myke asked this a few months ago. Odds are you will be sorely disappointed,
bread's done