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CAGcast #132: Mediocrely Average


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#61 Davestation

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:24 AM

Wow, I am surprised by Wombat's mathematical skills. This got me thinking of a mathematical equasion of my own.

Wombat + arguing medicore over average to Cheapy = DEUCH

I get what you are saying Wombat, but come on average has been used in video game ratings since I can recall. I have also always used average as a guideline for crap. To me, 75% is average or a solid "C" in school not great, not the worse and still passing. I agree that the rating system for games is broken, but every review can be broken down into a percentage. If everything is calculated and the game is in the 70% range than its an "average" game. There is no way to get a unified scoring system for games. I also understand that the other way I am using "average" in this is to find the average of the game. But like others pointed out, there are two uses for it with two different meanings. So Wombat, since you are so anal about using word correctley, I want you to walk around New York and tell everyone how gay you feel and how you love being gay, after all it does mean happy!!

Also, if EA really wanted to compete with Gamestop, they should offer games $10 cheaper on the PSN. Think about it, Gamestop's used games you only save $2.00 - $5.00 on the newer titles. If EA launched Burnout on the PSN for $19.99 and Gamestop sells it USED for $26.99 it would be a way to take away from the USED sales. Doubt it would happen, but if they really wanted to put there foot down, it may be a smart step. Also, of topic but can Warhawk or any of these other full games be file shared?

#62 John

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:26 AM

my problem is, is thats a terrible way to describe a game, what does a potential consumer get from someone calling a game average? Do you recommend it or not? average doesn't say anything. I think Okay is a better word then average, there are days when I feel Okay, there are no days when I feel average.



But the fact remains that average is a common word used to describe middle-of-the-road games, and most people have a good idea of what they think an average game is. From the podcast it sounded like you were saying that using it was wrong, but if it's just a matter of preference we probably shouldn't lose any sleep over it. ;)

#63 Wombat

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:26 AM

Wow, I am surprised by Wombat's mathematical skills. This got me thinking of a mathematical equasion of my own.

Wombat + arguing medicore over average to Cheapy = DEUCH

I get what you are saying Wombat, but come on average has been used in video game ratings since I can recall. I have also always used average as a guideline for crap. To me, 75% is average or a solid "C" in school not great, not the worse and still passing. I agree that the rating system for games is broken, but every review can be broken down into a percentage. If everything is calculated and the game is in the 70% range than its an "average" game. There is no way to get a unified scoring system for games. I also understand that the other way I am using "average" in this is to find the average of the game. But like others pointed out, there are two uses for it with two different meanings. So Wombat, since you are so anal about using word correctley, I want you to walk around New York and tell everyone how gay you feel and how you love being gay, after all it does mean happy!!


I am only so gay because of posts like yours

#64 ch3zyp00fs

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:26 AM

cheap = buy it cheap
ass = crap, shit, ass. - at the very most, a rental
gamer = buy it! there is enough content in this game that will keep you playing for a month.

problem solved.


I like this approach.

This thread is ass. :D
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#65 Sweetdelight

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:52 AM

I think the word "adequate" ( http://wordnet.princ...ebwn?s=adequate ) is more appropriate then Mediocre/"Average"(which sounds more negative than average).

  • S: (adj) adequate, decent, enough (sufficient for the purpose) "an adequate income"; "the food was adequate"; "a decent wage"; "enough food"; "food enough"
  • S: (adj) adequate, passable, fair to middling, tolerable (about average; acceptable) "more than adequate as a secretary"



#66 CheapyD

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:54 AM

"Fair" might be the way to go...
Currently kicking around: Outstanding, Very Good, Fair, Poor, Awful

#67 DJSteel

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 01:57 AM

average is a copout.. you say a game is average when the game truly is mediocre..but you wanted it to succeed.. you then say it is average.
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#68 evyrew

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:00 AM

Why not relate the subjective score to the percentage of the full price you would be willing to pay....

5 Stars: Excellent: (Full Price)
4 Stars: Good (25% off)
3 Stars: Okay (50% off)
2 Stars: Meh (75% off)
1 Star: Poor (couldn't make me take it even if it was free)

Just a thought...
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#69 DJSteel

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:08 AM

i like the price scoring.. it makes the most sense for the site...
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#70 4nik8tor

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:12 AM

Hey Cheapy,
help me understand the need for game reviews on CAG.
I really don't get it. CAG has never been known as a review site. (to me anyhow) If I want a review of a game I go to other sites.
I come here for deals on current games on old games I missed out on.
Not reviews.
I already know what I'm interested in before I come here.
but thats just me, and maybe you want to change things up. Thats cool.
I just don't get the need for game reviews. (or in this case a scoring system)
Mr. and Mrs. Ship do just fine getting the message across about which games might interest me and which ones to avoid without any numerical system attached to it.
I mean.. if you're just gonna review all the AAA titles that come out, then slap an outstanding on them all and be done with it.
A true scoring system (if thats what you're gonna stick with) will involve ALL games, even the crap ones.. otherwise you're just reviewing the games that are above average to begin with. Is that the plan?

don't get me wrong, I don't wanna bag on your idea. but I'm ok with how it is now.

#71 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:16 AM

"Fair" might be the way to go...
Currently kicking around: Outstanding, Very Good, Wombat, Poor, Awful

I prefer this scale.

#72 Davestation

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:25 AM

I am only so gay because of posts like yours


Thanks Wombat, I just lay in bed all night thinking how gay I am. I am married to my wife and have never been gayer. I can not wait to wake up to my very own gay world and see what I can do to make it gayer. I am most gay when my wife is out of the house and I am listening to the CAGcast nude in my very, very, very gay state of mind. When I hear yours and Cheapy's voices I just get all filled with gayness!! Thanks for bringing more gayness into my life CAG!! On a side note, a homosexual dog tried humping my leg, what a gay dog....

#73 4nik8tor

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:28 AM

Man You ARE Gay.

#74 ArrestedDeveloper

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:44 AM

I usually enjoy wombat but in this podcast he came off as a whiny baby. You would have thought that Cheapy had insulted his wife and baby with the from the tone of his voice during the "Great Average Debate of 2008".

As far as gun control, I can understand being uncomfortable with machine gun packing citizen but you have to look at why they put that in the constitution. The founding fathers had just fought to overthrow a tyrannical government and to do this the citizens had to rise up with their own arms to do this. The 2nd amendment isn't about people having guns so they can go hunting and shoot targets, the 2nd amendment was the founding fathers insurance that if the government they were forming ever started to oppress it's people, the people would have the ability to take up arms and overthrow them.

#75 JadedJedi

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 03:04 AM

Why do people in the industry always call us consumers. I have never, ever in my life consumed a video game. They don't seem very appetizing, being all plastic and metallic.

Edited by JadedJedi, 09 September 2008 - 03:05 AM.
grammar

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#76 Kfoster1979

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 03:19 AM

i like the price scoring.. it makes the most sense for the site...


I agree, you could have an AVERAGE CAG price. For me I just look at gamerankings.com or metacritic.com to get a score. On CAG I like the idea of assigning a price point baseed on MSRP. In my mind the way it would work is anyone who wants to (outside of the reviewer) could assigin a price point of what they think the game is worth. Then all price points are averaged giving the game a CAG price ex: 100 people say Tales of Vesperia is worth 45.86.


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#77 I Am ProZac

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 05:47 AM

Like usual, I agree with Wombat. Average is a bad word to describe things. However, I think "Mediocre" has some bad conotations to it, so I would go with Fair or Par.
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#78 daphatty

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 06:44 AM

I am not wrong, no other major convention shares the money from ticket sales with it's vendors. The game companies do make their money back, its called game sales. See the point of the show its to promote their games, if they feel the money they are spending at E3 doesn't equate to games sales, then need to revise the show so it does. Sharing ticket sale money is asinine. If game game companies are really spending millions imagine how much tickets will cost.


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you've never actually attended E3 (before it was butchered). Having worked for Sony during the E3 hayday and attended several shows as a guest, I can only imagine the amounts of cash that were dumped into E3 by the various companies. It really was an mpressive sight to behold. That being said...

Name one other convention organizer/organization that also charges several hundred thousand to several million dollars for political lobbying and legal representation.

Name one.

Fact is, no such organization exists. And that, my dear Wombat, is why game companies are opting out of E3 and, in numerous cases, out of the ESA. Why pay someone twice when you can do all of that for yourself for far less money AND on your own terms?

You may not agree with the industry's perspective on E3, lord knows I certainly don't, but that is just the way things are. If the ESA wants to continue being a formidable player in this industry then they need to make drastic changes. If Penny Arcade can draw 60,000 people in one 3-day span then imagine what a revived, open to the public E3 could do? Even at $15 a day, the earnings on ticket sales would be a decent drop in the bucket.

my problem is, is thats a terrible way to describe a game, what does a potential consumer get from someone calling a game average? Do you recommend it or not? average doesn't say anything. I think Okay is a better word then average, there are days when I feel Okay, there are no days when I feel average.


"Fair" might be the way to go...
Currently kicking around: Outstanding, Very Good, Fair, Poor, Awful


What about Meh? That's a great way of saying "It's Okay" or "Average." It also get the point across that an average game may not be something a CAG would want to spend money on. After all, who's your target audience?



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#79 Decepticreep

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 06:53 AM

I 90% agree with Wombat's assessment to use the word mediocre vs. average. I don't 100% agree because he's using average as a Math term when Cheapy isn't referring to Math when he uses the word.

To me, mediocre holds a more negative connotation than the word average. For example, I'm a huge Megaman fan. If someone asked, "What's your thoughts on Megaman 9?" Then that person answers, "Megaman 9 in an average Megaman game." That would get me excited because, to me, that sounds like a great game. If he were to conversely answer, "Megaman 9 is a mediocre Megaman game." That would upset me.

#80 Chrisness

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 07:06 AM

Was hoping for some crazy PAX / Cruise stories
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#81 vanilla_shakin_it

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 08:16 AM

I thought the show was pretty tiresome and while cheapy surely didn't mean for the title to describe the quality of the show (and I'm too lazy to check whether this joke has been used already) it pretty much was spot on. I found some of wombat's arguments to be pretty aggressive (and annoying) and I think Cheapy should have definitely gone a little farther with his points on those. Or just google some easy answers. Hoping next week was better but after a three week break that sucked.



Also, keep your politics out of my VIDEO GAME podcasts please.

YEAH THOSE fucking LIBERALS! Fuck I hate this free speech! Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go Fuck my sister and shoot a gun...AT THE SAME TIME

#82 ShinAkumA21

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:04 AM

Wombat sounded angry this episode maybe it because of the new baby stressing him out or he could be angry because he couldn't go to E3 or Pax this year to have fun. He like ticking time bomb ready to explode on CheapyD Ass :bomb:

#83 DJSteel

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 10:42 AM

best quote from the show...

daphatty's not black?


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#84 Wombat

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 12:47 PM

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you've never actually attended E3 (before it was butchered). Having worked for Sony during the E3 hayday and attended several shows as a guest, I can only imagine the amounts of cash that were dumped into E3 by the various companies. It really was an mpressive sight to behold. That being said...

Name one other convention organizer/organization that also charges several hundred thousand to several million dollars for political lobbying and legal representation.

Name one.

Fact is, no such organization exists. And that, my dear Wombat, is why game companies are opting out of E3 and, in numerous cases, out of the ESA. Why pay someone twice when you can do all of that for yourself for far less money AND on your own terms?

You may not agree with the industry's perspective on E3, lord knows I certainly don't, but that is just the way things are. If the ESA wants to continue being a formidable player in this industry then they need to make drastic changes. If Penny Arcade can draw 60,000 people in one 3-day span then imagine what a revived, open to the public E3 could do? Even at $15 a day, the earnings on ticket sales would be a decent drop in the bucket.


But that my whole point, the game companies are paying for a service, it is up to them if they feel that they are getting their money's worth. If not then by all means take your money elsewhere, but you can't ask for money back , if you feel that service has been provided. E3 is just a part of the service.
E3 is held for companies to promote themselves but if they feel they are spending too much then maybe thier booths should have less neon to counter act the booth fees. And how much does the ESA have to pay for city permits, planning, staff, the center itself, etc.

Edited by Wombat, 10 September 2008 - 06:18 PM.


#85 kashwashwa

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:03 PM

Wombat sounded angry this episode maybe it because of the new baby stressing him out or he could be angry because he couldn't go to E3 or Pax this year to have fun. He like ticking time bomb ready to explode on CheapyD Ass :bomb:


This looks like it's been mentioned a few times in the thread... I've gotta say, it'd be pretty damn boring if there was no difference of opinion between Cheapy and Wombat. In all reality it's what makes the podcast interesting in a lot of cases. I don't think wombat is ACTUALLY that angry at all, but it seems he brings up different viewpoints even if he doesn't necessarily strongly believe in them at least for the sake of discussing the different viewpoint.


The alternative could sound something like:
"I agree. Next topic."

:applause:

#86 MaxBiaggi3

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:39 PM

Nobody mentioned the availability of the Edge card by itself through the mail for a mere $2. You don't get the magazine with it, but you save more than enough cash for a budget game or two. Gamestop doesn't seem to promote this option much (it's listed on some of the subscription postcards in their magazine), but this option might be attractive for those that don't care for the magazine.

#87 LiK

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:45 PM

Welcome back Cheapy-san! we missed you man. :D

the whole Dark Knight discussion was GREAT! and Cheapy's Batman impression had me rolling. lol... man, Cheapy and Wombat are the perfect team. it's different when they cohost with other people. i appreciate Shippy joining in but the dynamic is different.

okay, still listening...
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#88 ryanbph

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:59 PM

When talking about used games, did cheapy say that the game developers get a piece of the sale? I thought I heard that, and that is incorrect. The reason why game developers/publishers have no problem in going into a DLC model, is 2 fold. First it will lower cost. No cases, instructions, box art, and discs to pay for. 2nd of all, they don't make a fucking penny on used game sales. If gamestop is selling 1/4 of the games in the market, how many of them are used games that the developers don't get jack shit for. The biggest issue that DLC as the primary means for buying games is going to have, is when a new system launches who is going to sell it. Retailers don't make shit on moving a system, it is made on accessories and selling a ton of games.


As for the E3 giving money back to the developers, I am 100% behind the avg wombat :). The reason E3 was made smaller is because the companies didn't think they were getting the bang for their buck. For instance, lets say sony spent 1mill on creating a set in there booth space, and EA spent 750k. But the media would spend = time covering the stuff in EA's booth as it would sony's. It was the developers/publishers fault for spending that type of money. At the time it was rumored the big 3 console makers were the ones not happy with the current E3. Now the ones bitching about it being too small or other companies and some have pulled out. As far as I know the tokoyo game show and Leipzeig shows don't give money back to the game companies. How the Fuck would you break that down anyways. Does every company get an equal share? Well then you piss of the big companies. If you break it down based on size/amount of games shown, then a company who had less games but was very popular would get pissed.


The way the game companies can afford to go back to the old E3 and not lose as much money is for them to sell schwag. Tshirts, hats, faceplates, games, statues of game characters etc...They could even release games at E3 several weeks ahead of time at the show, and not have to lose a cut to retailers. I am not talking about a ton of games, but a couple in total. You could charge for autographs/pictures of game designers. There are a ton of ways they could recoup the cost.


I do agree it makes more sense for the game companies to host private events for the press. They will have the full attention of the media.

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#89 Kuromimi

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 04:11 PM

"Fair" might be the way to go...
Currently kicking around: Outstanding, Very Good, Fair, Poor, Awful

This is pretty good. Its almost like DDR... Perfect, Great, Good, Poor, and Miss. Something like that.
...
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#90 bluemonkey101021

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 05:25 PM

Anyone else notice that the sound quality of this show was a bit muffled?
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