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CAGcast #132: Mediocrely Average


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#121 Conboy

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 12:31 PM

Wombat and Cheapy, your choice for President: Average!!!!!! or mediocre, or par, or meh.

You two are Pinkos to the core! ;>

Great show guys. Cheapy, any whale sightings while on the cruise? Other than the fatties you mentioned on the ships deck.
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#122 hufferstl

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 12:47 PM

I was hoping someone else had a statistics class and posted this already, because I really didn't want to bother. There are many different ways to find the "average", depending on what you are wanting out of the data. These concepts are called, Mean, Median and Mode.

---copied from http://www.purplemat...eanmode.htm----

The "mean" is the "average" you're used to, where you add up all the numbers and then divide by the number of numbers. The "median" is the "middle" value in the list of numbers. To find the median, your numbers have to be listed in numerical order, so you may have to rewrite your list first. The "mode" is the value that occurs most often. If no number is repeated, then there is no mode for the list.

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So with scores in videogames, the most common score(some would call "average" is the "mode or modal" score. Adding up all the scores and diving by the number of games, would be the "mean" and the absolute middle score in a list would be the "median". So Wombat, there are many different ways of finding the "average" game.

Either way, I think games should be listed using the standard grading system of A, B, C, D, and F.

The old bridge used to be called the new bridge.

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#123 bingbangboom

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 01:02 PM

The whole used games argument thing is still very weird to me. I will be opening a Play N Trade Videogames store later this year, competitor to Gamestop. The used games business is basically the same but I honestly don't see why publishers hate on it. There is a cycle to the way the business works right now.

Stores like mine and Gamestop NEED to sell new games to sell used games. That is why they push pre-orders. The reason is that it is more likely that you may trade that title into the store thus allowing them to eventually sell it used. There would be no other retail location that will strive to sell a pre-order like these stores do. While you can pre-order games at some big box stores, typically they are just cards with box art.

The reasoning is that for publishers, if someone is buying a used game they are not buying a new game. Truth is that if you are buying a new game, you are not buying it from the publisher anyway, the store is. In addition, most of the time after a few months you just don't buy any new games because they are out of cycle. It is why if you go to a big box store, while they may have a ton of titles, it is quantity they have, not the number of different titles. They may have 20 copies of Madden but if you count the number of different titles for each system. You may get 15 for each console at Best Buy... at a used game store you have over 50 because of those older games.

The restricting of selling of new product only hurts the publishers and consumers. It is like Sony then telling you that you can't sell your Blu-Ray on ebay... because someone may want to buy it new. It is tough luck. Depending where you go, you can really get better deals with a used title and not only that sometimes a game gets fandom with used game sales. These are titles that don't sell huge new and may not take off till down the road. Its hard to find a new copy of Beyond Good and Evil :P

I understand Wombat's logic with thinking that they can just sell the titles at non used places, but then again look and see how pre-orders help the industry and if you take that market away, they will sell far less. If they also hated Gamestop so bad, then they wouldn't be partners with select games and offering bonuses.

But for the game review stuff... I don't know if it is possible but what if you had something where you can see where all game scores rate. So you can have your 5 star system but what does someone think is a 5 star game compared to a 4 star game? That context can really help people know the difference. Like what games do you consider for each section to be a awful, bad, fair, good, great game? Another idea would just call the middle score "Wombat" and have his picture there. Everyone would know what that means and would be funny to see a "Wombat" score on metacritic.

#124 SyphonFilter

SyphonFilter

Posted 11 September 2008 - 06:18 PM

I knew cheapy was a big socom fan,i could tell by him mentioning it a couple times before.

#125 dan13l858

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 07:11 AM

My dad used the word "average" to describe a so-so game back in his day;as a result, i used the word "average" too.

#126 The Great BM

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 04:12 PM

I know it's not the focus of this site, but I just want to say how refreshing it was to listen to people (i.e. you two guys) give there political views and not sound like a bunch of rabid, elitist pricks. While I'm not 100% in agreement with the views, I felt Cheapy gave solid reasoning for his choice and didn't make any cynical or pointless remarks about the person he was not voting for. I'm tired of all the pig-headedness that comes from either side of the political spectrum, and I thought you guys gave respectful opinions regarding the candidates and issues.

I will disagree with Cheapy on one thing: I totally want that Pro Evolution Soccer 360 controller. I play a lot of games using the D-Pad. I did purchase the Hori Pad EX Turbo, and while the D-pad is excellent, everything else about it is mediocre (and yes, I had to correct myself from using "average" ;)).

#127 orko60

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 07:17 PM

Wombat launched into his "average" tirade without doing the homework; what if the score of Mercs 2 actually IS the statistical average of all games? That would blow my mind. Get to work, nerds!
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#128 encendido5

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 08:48 PM

In the show notes you say the outro is an Atari commercial. It's actually for the Intellivision where you get a 13" TV for $79 when you buy the system.

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#129 Sawboss

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 10:57 PM

I was thinking that even if all major publishers decided to not supply Gamestop with product, I feel Gamestop would still be he number 1 place to get USED games. People who want the new games on release day will buy them at Best Buy etc. and then simply sell them to Gamestop when they are done and then use the credit to buy used games they may have missed. Then all of us cheap gamers can go to Gamestop and buy the new game just traded in. I will concede Gamestop will lose some money from new game sales, but not as much as they would lose from no longer selling used games. This is what I believe to be true if Gamestop does indeed make most of their money from the selling of used games.

#130 rothgar24

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 06:34 AM

I was happy to see the return of Cheapy. Great show.

I dig the batman impersonation quite a bit. There must be some way to work it into the show on a regular basis.

edit: Obviously, I referring to the Cheapy impersonation...

#131 Wolfkin

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 07:54 PM

Another great show full of controversy. I don't know which was more controversial the fact that Wombat doesn't have moderator access or Wombat's overthe top assualt on the term average.

On the topic Wombat should be reminded that Average isn't a mathematically discrete equation. The equation he describes is best called a 'mean'. I'm sure we all remember learning about Mean, Median, Mode and Range in school. Average is a less specific synonym. That's why there's a difference between an 'arithmetic average' and the normal usage of the word 'average'. That said, while I completely disagree with his stance on the word average, I fully support his Advocacy for Mediocrity. I'm all for the reduction of any trace of ambiguity.

Wombat is right. Madden would sell just as many copies if EA decided to cut out GameStop distribution. Sure Gamestop would still get their used copies but most people would be able to buy the game just as easily at Target, BestBuy, Circuit City and all the other stores. CheapyD you say that it's so far off that a publisher alienating GameStop is such a far fetched concept and yet that's almost exactly what the guy from EA said. He used the same car model that GameStop always tried to use.
Gamestop says: Imagine how the new car market would fair if Toyota didn't let you sell your old car
EA says: Imagine how Toyota would feel is their car dealer partners tried to push you towards a used car that's 'guaranteed to work'. You can bet that you wouldn't be a partner with Toyota anymore.

Edited by Wolfkin, 14 September 2008 - 08:29 PM.

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#132 Porygon

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 04:48 AM

Wombat, I normally see you as extremely level-headed and reasonable, but this "average" issue of your's is weird to me. It's not that I don't understand where you are coming from, it's just that the whole principle is too grounded in semantics. (Which seems very unlike you) I'm sure you're well-aware of the widely-accepted definition, and it's not like people get the two definitions mixed up very often. This is the English language afterall, there's a lot of ambiguity that's much worse than this.


I normally wouldn't comment on something as minor as this, but this is probably one of the very few times I disagreed with Wombat on something, you just don't seem like the sort of person who would take something so petty so seriously. Regardless, Wombat still rules.