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Reggie Fils-Aime Says the Hardcore is "Insatiable"


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#61 JEKKI

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:17 PM

man at the end of the day gamers just have an attitude like everybody owes them something...

I donno, that's how I usually perceive message board users.

when wii doesnt satisfy core gamers, I play something else instead of bitch about it,

and when good games come out for the Wii then I play good games on the wii

#62 cochesecochese

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:28 PM

Serious question here: What do you want from Nintendo?


Real answer? An experience closer to what Japan gets. We are customers as well. Unfortunately, there are a lot of reasons this is never going to happen.

Let's start with the games. We all know Nintendo publishes great games but it is annoying and a little disheartening that US gamers get a lot of this stuff later than Japan with (arguably) worse box art and packaging, if we get it at all. A lot of this has to do with the way NOA and NCL decide which games come to the US market. NOA picks titles that are already far along in development and then works with a nearly finished product which it then releases in North America. It would be nice if there was NOA staff that developed concepts with NCL or at least began translation in conjunction with development at NCL. Good luck finding bi-lingual, talented programmers who are willing to work for the (less) pay offered to Japanese workers.

Nintendo's online solution is less than spectacular. Let's face it. Even without comparing it to LIVE or PSN it's substandard. It's great that it's free but the necessity of friend codes and the lack of a true messaging system (this changes with AC, I know) hold the service back. Furthermore, the VC selection is pretty terrible in comparison to what Japan gets. Japan has far more titles than we do and they get the hot shit much sooner. The storage solution is pretty terrible but understandable, given the piracy problem, but Nintendo could have done a better job with this. I also find it appalling that a VC purchase means you are effectively renting a game and do not own it or a license to re-download it to another console if your first box craps out and you buy a replacement.

Club Nintendo. It's obnoxious that this is coming to NA so late. During the GCN/GBA era I had all possible GBA games registered and was less than five away from completing the GCN games library. Check out this Zelda disc. It has roms of every Zelda game I've already got in my collection. I also registered about 15 DS games, 10 Wii games and 15+ VC games. Good thing.

The VC thing was the last straw. I only wanted to re-download three games and you would think that with my registered games numbering in the hundreds Nintendo would bend its policy. Nope.

Nintendo brought me a lot of good memories growing up and I'm glad for it but it seems like it's still very much the same company as it was then. I'm all set with that.

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#63 Strell

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:40 PM

2. The "hardcore" need to quit bitching about Nintendo.


"Do as I say, not as I do."

man at the end of the day gamers just have an attitude like everybody owes them something...

I donno, that's how I usually perceive message board users.

when wii doesnt satisfy core gamers, I play something else instead of bitch about it,

and when good games come out for the Wii then I play good games on the wii


The little moments of clarity I see out of Jekki are always inspiring.

Then he goes back to talking about Bennie Mac being sucked into TVs and shit.


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#64 dmaul1114

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:47 PM

"Do as I say, not as I do."


Not really. I bitched before I wised up and ditched the console, but not since then. I follow the game market, so I have interest in topics like this, but I'm not wasting time bashing Nintendo anymore. They're making a killing so they're doing what's right for them.

Core gamers just need to quit bitching about them, and, conversely, Reggie shouldn't bitch about core gamers as they made a decision to not target them with anything beyond the standard 1st party franchises.

They're printing money from that decision so they should just ignore the core gamer complaints, or outright say they don't give a crap about that market like they pretty much did when they announced the Wii and said they were going to focus on casual gamers and non-gamers after getting killed by Sony the past two generations in the core gamer market.

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#65 Strell

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:07 PM

Not really. I bitched before I wised up and ditched the console, but not since then.


I need to know what cocktail of drugs you ingest daily to create this fascinating limbo you're in. Making up quotes from execs, continuing to do something you say you don't. Just all this treasure trove of cognitive dissonance.


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#66 dmaul1114

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:08 PM

I need to know what cocktail of drugs you ingest daily to create this fascinating limbo you're in. Making up quotes from execs, continuing to do something you say you don't. Just all this treasure trove of cognitive dissonance.


Similarly, I'd love to know what those of you who actually enjoy the Wii are on. :D

And I'm not bashing Nintendo--I said they're doing the right thing. I just don't like the direction they've went as it's totally divergent from what I want out of a gaming console, so of course I'm not going to have positive things to say about that. But I'm not going to bash Nintendo, they're making tons of cash after getting owned last generation so more power to them.

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#67 Strell

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:09 PM

Darn. Elitism.

I can't argue with that nonsense.


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#68 dmaul1114

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:13 PM

Darn. Elitism.

I can't argue with that nonsense.


It was a joke. Lighten up Francis. Don't get your Mario panties in a bunch.

Different strokes for different folks. I couldn't care less that people like the Wii, or why the like it. It's not for me and there are two other consoles out there that offer the types of gaming I like, so no skin off my nose.

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#69 SL4IN

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:23 PM

Similarly, I'd love to know what those of you who actually enjoy the Wii are on. :D

And I'm not bashing Nintendo--I said they're doing the right thing. I just don't like the direction they've went as it's totally divergent from what I want out of a gaming console, so of course I'm not going to have positive things to say about that. But I'm not going to bash Nintendo, they're making tons of cash after getting owned last generation so more power to them.


You constantly bring up how Nintendo got "owned" last generation by Sony, but you always fail to mention that Microsoft LOST money last gen. And they didn't just lose some money, the lost A LOT of money.
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#70 dmaul1114

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:54 PM

You constantly bring up how Nintendo got "owned" last generation by Sony, but you always fail to mention that Microsoft LOST money last gen. And they didn't just lose some money, the lost A LOT of money.


Yep, MS got owned by Sony as well, probably even worse. I'm not an MS fanboy. I don't like any of these 3 companies, I just begrudgingly give my money to them to play games. :D The 360 has the most games I want to play this generation, and I only have time for one console this generation so the 360 was my choice. Last gen the PS2 was my fave, though I owned all 3 then. And I played the GC more than the original X-box.

Next gen we'll see. MS has the edge going in as I've enjoyed their exclusives and X-box live, but things can change. I, like most people, though the PS3 would be the console to own this gen, but a $500-$600 launch price changed that fast.

Edited by dmaul1114, 09 October 2008 - 02:41 AM.

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#71 Lord_Kefka

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 01:04 AM

I love threads like these. It's so easy to skip the middle without caring.

Begin Thread:
Reggie made a comment that the hardcore game enthusiast (i.e. buys many games in a year) is "insatiable" in their appetite for the next big release? Is this a fair statement? Let's discuss the ramifications of a high-demand in this rapidly growing industry? Between lead production times and costs causing small developers to be bought up to survive and the technological advances we should have a spirited conversation. I'm sure many new ideas and opinions will enlighten us all.

Fast forward. >>>>>>>>

YUR System got PWNED!


Ahhh, the internet. How I love thee

Lord Kefka... you're insatiable.


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#72 R. Kasahara

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 01:06 AM

man at the end of the day gamers just have an attitude like everybody owes them something...

I donno, that's how I usually perceive message board users.

when wii doesnt satisfy core gamers, I play something else instead of bitch about it,

and when good games come out for the Wii then I play good games on the wii

*hugs Jekki*

And with that, I'm joining The Crotch and unsubscribing to this thread. There's only so much fanboy pissing match I can stand :roll:
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#73 ChibiJosh

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 01:56 AM

Just wanted to point out the amusing thread title typo: Reggie Fils-Anime.

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#74 willardhaven

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 02:58 AM

Get a PS2 and stop complaining people, the Wii is churning out 1st party hits faster than the GC.

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#75 Rei no Otaku

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:15 AM

Sorry Reggie, the "hardcore" isn't insatiable. They'er just tired of your rehashed franchises. Don't dig motion controls for the most part. Want HD graphics and robust online gaming, demos etc.

I don't game that much, and I'm more than 100% satisfied with the 360 and can't come close to play every game in it's library that I'd like to try. Where as the Wii got ditched early this year for the reasons above.

So in short, Fuck off Reggie. "Hardcore" gamers don't need Nintendo, and you don't need us. Just keep making a killing off of kids, Nintendo fanboys, soccer moms and non-gamers and the rest of us will enjoy the tremendous game libraries on the other two platforms.

But it cuts both ways.

1. Nintendo needs to not bitch about the "hardcore" as they're making a killing by going after a different market.

2. The "hardcore" need to quit bitching about Nintendo. Their consoles have been good for little other than the handful of first party franchises worth playing for the past 3 generations, and this generation will be even worse in that regard with their different market and lower specs on the console.

You either own it for the 1st franchises and casual gamers, or you sell it/don't buy it and enjoy the other two platforms.

Very well said.

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#76 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:33 AM

Agree. Fuck hardly core. Stick with your 360.

#77 HotShotX

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:08 AM

If Reggie considers Wii Fit to be a game for the "hardcore" crowd, then he's clearly fallen out of touch with Nintendo's fanbase. He may make Nintendo truckloads of money but I suspect that the goodwill of the fanbase will only be stretched to the end of this cycle, and they will be picking up another company's console when the next generation comes.

By then, the Wii will be left collecting dust on the shelf along with all the other "single-purpose" peripherals Nintendo seems to keep pumping out, clearly forgetting the lessons learned when "single-purpose" peripherals were a waste on the GBC and GBA.

Even after the hardcore base has left them, the casual gamers will also be reluctant to pick up another console and catalog of accessories with a Wii collecting dust atop a mountain of plastic peripherals.

From my perspective, the only way Nintendo could crawl out of this and continue this route into another generation is to release several major 1st-party titles near the end of the Wii lifecycle.

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#78 cochesecochese

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:20 AM

Aono man. I think Nintendo just has to release something as awesome as Wii Sports with the next home console. We've all heard the stories about folks buying a Wii and playing nothing but Wii Sports on it.

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#79 SuxoR

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:52 AM

Poor Nintendo, I think they could have the gaming industry by the bawlz....

Imagine if Brawl wasn't broken to make the casual audience happy? Jumping into games while voice chatting man...that would end all

Mario Kart where you can set up games anyone can play? Voice chatting 1v1 1v9 who cares

Single player games like Zelda/Metroid/Mario where you can upload your scores and compete with other Nintendo fans

DS battling online Pictochat online

Nintendo needs to have an online system similar to XBOX Live, with the games they have (I mentioned a small small number) they could dominate everyone

idk if they are scared? Or stubborn?

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#80 depascal22

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 02:32 PM

We might shun the next Nintendo console but the younger generation that's being raised on the Wii will flock to it. Nintendo is catering to them while Sony and Microsoft will cater to the ever shrinking hardcore. I say ever shrinking because most of us are getting advanced in our careers (or starting them). Most of us are having more kids and don't have time to game and will buy less and less games as the years go on. Gaming will less about us and more about our kids and Nintendo is giving the kids what they want.

#81 dmaul1114

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 03:49 PM

We might shun the next Nintendo console but the younger generation that's being raised on the Wii will flock to it. Nintendo is catering to them while Sony and Microsoft will cater to the ever shrinking hardcore. I say ever shrinking because most of us are getting advanced in our careers (or starting them). Most of us are having more kids and don't have time to game and will buy less and less games as the years go on. Gaming will less about us and more about our kids and Nintendo is giving the kids what they want.


It's not shrinking. As we get older and game less, last generations kids are turning into teens and college students and buying more games and playing more games.

Kids that started on Wii this generation will be buying other consoles (along with Nintendo's) ins the future when they're older and making their own money. Hell, a lot of kids already play the other consoles--just get on X-box live sometime and see how many kids you run into.

The market for what Nintendo is doing will be there in the future, and so will the "hardcore." Neither is shinking. New kids are born and introduced to Nintendo and simple games, and as we get old and busy and stop gaming as much kids grow up and take our places in the "hardcore." Neither type of gaming is going anywhere.

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#82 depascal22

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:01 PM

I shouldn't have said shrinking but changing. Just like we grew up on Atari and NES and grew up to love Goldeneye, these kids are loving Mario Kart and Super Mario Galaxy. They won't be playing these games forever but Nintendo has figured out that it's better to cater to families than to the hardcore.

#83 dmaul1114

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:05 PM

I shouldn't have said shrinking but changing. Just like we grew up on Atari and NES and grew up to love Goldeneye, these kids are loving Mario Kart and Super Mario Galaxy. They won't be playing these games forever but Nintendo has figured out that it's better to cater to families than to the hardcore.


Absolutely. They couldn't compete with the "hardcore" as the last two generations showed.

The hardcore isn't shrinking, it's just as kids get older they get less interested in Nintendo's franchises and into stuff like Halo, GTA, Gears of War etc. Just like we got into Goldeneye, Metal Gear Solid, etc.

Of course many people grow up and still play Nintendo franchises, I still like a few of them myself, but their core appeal has always been to kids, and they've expanded that with the Wii and are raking in tons of $$$ as a result.

But Sony and MS will be just fine targeting the core gamers as that group isn't getting smaller, it's still growing with each generation. Nintendo expanding the market and getting more kids into gaming expands the core gamer market when the kids grow up.

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#84 ninja dog

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:09 PM

I didn't notice "Fils-Anime" until now :lol:

okay, resume super serious thread where matters are settled once and for all.

#85 depascal22

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:15 PM

Getting back to the OP, Reggie's right. Every time something comes out about a beloved franchise or a new console/handheld, people come out and bash it even before they get to play it. The hardcore obsess about it and are quick to bash if one detail isn't just right. Mario Kart had to be revolutionary even though it hasn't been revolutionary since the first one. People will willingly play the same old crap on Halo 3 but somehow expect more from Smash Bros.

We've gotten a Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Metroid, and Smash Bros. already and people just want more. Nothing is good enough. The Wii Fit is destroying gaming! Why doesn't the Wii cater to my needs? It's starting to get ridiculous.

#86 ZForce

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:21 PM

I didn't notice "Fils-Anime" until now :lol:

okay, resume super serious thread where matters are settled once and for all.


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#87 tiredfornow

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:46 PM

:rofl:

Great thread.

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#88 benjamouth

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:54 PM

We believe today that we have shown a plethora of games and genres that can satisfy the most casual to the most core. Even that doesn't seem like it's enough.


No you don't believe that, you couldn't care less as long as the Wii and DS keep selling.

Appealing to the casual Market was a very intelligent thing for Nintendo to do, but to say that you believe there's enough games out for the "most core" is either naive or incredibly stupid, or a meaningless sound bite.

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#89 Mr. Beef

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:10 PM

Well, technically, we haven't gotten an actual Zelda game made for the Wii yet. :-\"

Jekki ended the thread a few pages back. If Ninty ain't making something that you like, then don't play the Wii, and play something else. Hell, Castle Crashers is good enogh for me right now, as well as MM9.

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#90 Irukandji

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:12 PM

real "hardcore" gamers buy all the consoles so they don't run out of games to play. i've never run out of games. is that even possible? i almost always have to many.

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