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Is Sony's PS3 Really a Sinking Ship?


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#31 Zyzomys

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:43 PM

Wow, there are a lot of Sony fanboys in this thread. Sony is laying off 18,000 employees, and is looking at ways to save $1.1 billion before January 31, 2009 and a further $3 billion by their year end in March. The PS3 is not doing well, its Year on Year World Wide sales are down, and the last game that gave it a kick start was MGS4. Mentioning games that sold one million copies, but were expected to sell millions and move consoles is not a success story. Resistance 2 was outsold by Left 4 Dead and sold less than 400,000 copies, and Little Big Planet did not out sell anything. These are all triple "A" titles on the PS3. Every year the exclusive big titles fail to sell consoles (except MGS4). It is time to face facts, Sony is going to come in third this generation.

And guess what: I will still enjoy all the great exclusive games that come out for the PS3 and I am am thankful that it is easy to port Xbox 360 games over to the PS3, because that means that the PS3 will continue to get a good number of releases. Nothing wrong with coming in third. It happened to Nintendo and look what happened this generation. Hopefully Sony has learned their lesson and plans on launching a much cheaper console next generation.

And yes I own a Xbox 360. I also own a PS3 and have purchased over the past year: Resistance 1; Ratchet & Clank; Uncharted; GTA IV; MGS4; SOCOM; Far Cry 2; Little Big Planet; Resistance 2; and Fallout 3. Plus too many Blu-ray movies to count. I own it and I can criticize it.

#32 willardhaven

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:50 PM

Well it depends, I think they're staying in third unless MS launches a new console and Sony releases a budget PS3.

MS might have learned from the PS2 however, and they might just keep dropping/pushing the 360.

I don't get why it matters so much to some people that their console "wins".

Personally the PS3 has the most exclusive games I want, with the Wii in second and the 360 in third.

Console wars don't matter if you have your own mind.
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#33 blackjaw

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:53 PM

I bought a 60gig last summer when they first decided to get rid of the SKU and haven't regretted it. It allowed me to get rid of my PS2 and still play catch up with my backlog and play amazing games like Persona 3 and Persona 4.

I had a buddy NOT buy a PS3 becuase he couldnt find one in the stores that would play his PS2 collection...he just didn't understand (not that saavy of a gamer). All the rest of my friends (except two) bought a 360 becuase of the price point (these are all mid-late 20's gamers with jobs and HDTVs).

I love my PS3, but I have to admit they screwed themselves with the price point and PS2 backwards compatibility if my experiences tell me anything.

#34 mang9432

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:55 PM

the PS3 is certainly heavy enough to sink a ship.
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#35 Ecofreak

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:01 PM

I'm confident that Sony is well positioned for the 2009. If the total yearly sales that ManaKinght as produced are true, then there is no reason for anyone to worry about the system. The price point is certainly hurting Sony in this recession economy but I honestly believe that sales will continue to pick up as the price decreases.

Besides, the base model of the 360 is $200. Each subsequent price drop, I believe, will bring in fewer people since those who wanted one will have bought one already.

And the PS3 has the benefit of acting as a (or at the very least the perception of being) a complete media center.

Sony needs to up their advertisement and PR outreach to show how much value the system has over the 360. I'm surprised they didn't release something harping on the 360's reliability issues.
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#36 thrustbucket

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:14 PM

I bought a PS3 as soon as Bluray won, but I've been regretting it ever since. The only PS3 game I have played is Uncharted. It hasn't been turned on since August and has a thick layer of dust on it. I'm considering selling it.

I don't think anyone will ever know just how bad Sony was hedging everything on Bluray. They literally bet the future of the whole company on it. They bled out gobs and gobs of "incentive" money to get Blu-ray to win, and they won't really recover from that any time soon.

When the PS3 came out Sony bragged that it would be their console for possibly 10 years. They didn't say this because they thought it was so much better than the competition, they said it because they spent over a billion on R&D for that cell processor and they can't afford another system launch any time soon.

It's becoming clear now that there is nothing super special about the cell processor or the PS3 architecture. Anyone, at this point, that still thinks we'll see games that clearly can't be touched by the 360 is fooling themselves.

The next generation is going to be super interesting. Microsoft is going to come out with a new console in the next 2 years. Sony has to hope to god they can make their PS3 last longer than that, because I really don't think they can afford to release another console so soon after the financial titanic PS3 and blu-ray has been for them.

In fact, I think Sony will fall far behind if they can't get either PS3 or Blu-ray to take off like PS2 or DVD.

#37 Ecofreak

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:27 PM

I bought a PS3 as soon as Bluray won, but I've been regretting it ever since. The only PS3 game I have played is Uncharted. It hasn't been turned on since August and has a thick layer of dust on it. I'm considering selling it.


So there are no games at all that interest you in the next couple of months? Just curious, what games are coming down the pipeline for the 360 that pique your curiosity?

I don't think anyone will ever know just how bad Sony was hedging everything on Bluray. They literally bet the future of the whole company on it. They bled out gobs and gobs of "incentive" money to get Blu-ray to win, and they won't really recover from that any time soon.


While it's certainly irrefutable that blu-ray isn't moving as fast as the DVD format, it is starting to gain some ground; as is evident by The Dark Knight's blu-ray version selling 25% of all copies sold during the release week. (Nearly 3 million copies of the movie were sold on Tuesday, with 600,000 units being sold on Blu-ray.)

Iron Man was also a big success. Now will such trends continue on films that do not really "require" absolute high-def (like date movies) remains to be seen. I personally am skeptical, but I'm starting to see $12 blu-rays in Costco. Sure, they're older movies but I expect prices to continue in price as time goes by.

Any to think that the PS3 will single-handedly destroy PS3 is absurd. You do realize that Sony makes laptops, TVs, movies, music, and more? The company is hurting across the board because of the worldwide recession, and not because of the PS3.

When the PS3 came out Sony bragged that it would be their console for possibly 10 years. They didn't say this because they thought it was so much better than the competition, they said it because they spent over a billion on R&D for that cell processor and they can't afford another system launch any time soon.


Well, Sony has been supporting the PS2 since it's launch in 2000 which makes it nearly a 10-year life-cycle system. I don't see why the PS3 would be any different and in fact, would expect the system to go out further due to diminishing returns of processing power and what people can actually discern.

The architecture certainly is an unweildy mistress, but hopefully architecture tools will come out to make it easier.

Remember how hard the PS2 was to program for, but everyone made do a couple years into its life cycle? It's definitely in Sony's best interest to help the development community and such commitment is beginning to bear fruit I believe.

It's becoming clear now that there is nothing super special about the cell processor or the PS3 architecture. Anyone, at this point, that still thinks we'll see games that clearly can't be touched by the 360 is fooling themselves.


Tech companies around the world are starting to use Cell technology in their new products.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_processor#Possible_applications]For example[/rul], Toshiba is considering producing HDTVs using Cell. They have already presented a system to decode 48 standard definition MPEG-2 streams simultaneously on a 1920×1080 screen. This can enable a viewer to choose a channel based on dozens of thumbnail videos displayed simultaneously on the screen.

It's also being used in next generation computer servers and supercomputing from IBM.

The next generation is going to be super interesting. Microsoft is going to come out with a new console in the next 2 years. Sony has to hope to god they can make their PS3 last longer than that, because I really don't think they can afford to release another console so soon after the behemoth in cost PS3 and blu-ray has been for them.


I love how people are always so doom and gloom about the PS3. It's always been positioned as a long-term player whose value will gradually be realized as time goes by. Does everyone forget that the PS3 was outselling the 360 for several months earlier in the summer? We have numerous posts of people looking for PS3s but couldn't find one in stores since they had sold out.

Does the PS3 have significant hurdles in the future? You betcha, especially if Sony is unable to effectively communicate the system's value and economy remains tight.
Will it be the #1 console this generation? Extremely unlikely.
Will it turn a profit for Sony? With a fair amount of certainty, assuming a long enough life-cycle.
Will games come out for the system that I will enjoy playing? Without a doubt & Most definitely.

I personally urge patience. Let the dust settle from this holiday season and at least one quarter afterwards before anyone starts digging anyone a grave.

Personally, I'd much rather support the PS3 than the 360, which I believe will be run out by the 720 in the next two years. I have little faith that MS will actually support this system for more than 6 years before they come out with their own Wii.

And Thrustbucket: We're definitely all entitled to our own opinions. But seriously, do some research before you start spouting out such claims like "clear now that there is nothing super special about the cell processor" or "They literally bet the future of the whole company on it." It does nothing to benefit the discussion if you have nothing to back it up besides your "hunch."

Edited by Ecofreak, 15 December 2008 - 10:37 PM.

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#38 Dr. Strangepork

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:44 PM

Wow, there are a lot of Sony fanboys in this thread.


Well, this is a PS3 forum. Are you really surprised?
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#39 Teh Nitwit

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:52 PM

I don't think anyone will ever know just how bad Sony was hedging everything on Bluray. They literally bet the future of the whole company on it. They bled out gobs and gobs of "incentive" money to get Blu-ray to win, and they won't really recover from that any time soon.


Your baseless claims of Sony spending gobs of "incentive" money to make bluray win makes you sound like a jaded hddvd fanboy. You imply that PS3 doesn't have (m)any good games. You dont' have a PSN in your profile.

I call a bluff. You don't really have a PS3 and you're here to troll.

#40 willardhaven

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:56 PM

McCarthyism?
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#41 thrustbucket

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:01 PM

So there are no games at all that interest you in the next couple of months? Just curious, what games are coming down the pipeline for the 360 that pique your curiosity?

Really nothing of interest for me that's exclusive for either platform that's coming out. But I had a lot more invested into the 360 by the time I bought a PS3 for a movie player. All my friends and family have 360 and are on my friends list, so that weighs a lot heavier than God of War 3 (the only exclusive I might be interested in).


While it's certainly irrefutable that blu-ray isn't moving as fast as the DVD format, it is starting to gain some ground; as is evident by The Dark Knight's blu-ray version selling 25% of all copies sold during the release week. (Nearly 3 million copies of the movie were sold on Tuesday, with 600,000 units being sold on Blu-ray.)

I still don't think Blu-ray will ever replace DVD's popularity. And I do think Sony was betting it would (using PS2/DVD logic).


Any to think that the PS3 will single-handedly destroy PS3 is absurd. You do realize that Sony makes laptops, TVs, movies, music, and more? The company is hurting across the board because of the worldwide recession, and not because of the PS3.

Of course I realize that. I do not think that the PS3 alone can sink Sony even if it was a dismal failure (it isn't). But I do think both the PS3 and Blu-ray together, are so depended on by Sony that a dismal failure of both (hypothetically) could mortally wound Sony.

You have to remember, Sony invested something like 2 billion in Cell research alone. Then they spent nearly 1 billion in fluffy incentives to studios to get Blu-Ray to win. No company, no matter the size, can afford to put that many eggs in two baskets without depending on them a great deal for overall company success.

Well, Sony has been supporting the PS2 since it's launch in 2000 which makes it nearly a 10-year life-cycle system. I don't see why the PS3 would be any different and in fact, would expect the system to go out further due to diminishing returns of processing power and what people can actually discern.


The PS2 was a runaway success that will likely never be repeated, that's an important point to accept. The PS3 has cost Sony so much money, and they still lose so much money on the hardware, that they releasing another console in the next two years would be near suicide.

They will have no choice but to try and convince people that buying a PS3 is a better idea than Microsoft's next console for at least 2 years of the "720's" life.

Remember how hard the PS2 was to program for, but everyone made do a couple years into its life cycle? It's definitely in Sony's best interest to help the development community and such commitment is beginning to bear fruit I believe.

There was also 25 million PS2's in homes at that time, which was one hell of an incentive for a developer to focus resources on squeezing it's lemons.

Tech companies around the world are starting to use Cell technology in their new products.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_processor#Possible_applications]For example[/rul], Toshiba is considering producing HDTVs using Cell. They have already presented a system to decode 48 standard definition MPEG-2 streams simultaneously on a 1920×1080 screen. This can enable a viewer to choose a channel based on dozens of thumbnail videos displayed simultaneously on the screen.

It's also being used in next generation computer servers and supercomputing from IBM.

I am certainly not arguing that Cell architecture isn't awesome and can and will be used in many devices in the future. Nor would I argue it has awesome potential.

But I always have, and still do, question Sony's faith in Cell for games. There is still no reason that they have yet provided that it was a good investment for games, especially using version 1.0 of any architecture. It's clear they simply wanted to use Cell because they had invested so much in it already.

I love how people are always so doom and gloom about the PS3. It's always been positioned as a long-term player whose value will gradually be realized as time goes by. Does everyone forget that the PS3 was outselling the 360 for several months earlier in the summer? We have numerous posts of people looking for PS3s but couldn't find one in stores since they had sold out.


Those months in the summer = MGS4: The PS3's single biggest exclusive gun in it's arsenal, which has now already been fired.

Not to mention insane sales at the time.

I bought my PS3 first of June because of a Best Buy $100 gift card deal they had, so I guess I contributed to those statistics.

I personally urge patience. Let the dust settle from this holiday season and at least one quarter afterwards before anyone starts digging anyone a grave.

I really don't think the PS3 will ever be a failure. It's already sold too much for that, and Blu Ray will ensure it isn't. But it will certainly not come close to repeating the PS2's success story.

Personally, I'd much rather support the PS3 than the 360, which I believe will be run out by the 720 in the next two years. I have little faith that MS will actually support this system for more than 6 years before they come out with their own Wii.


I was a MASSIVE Sony fanboy with PS1 and PS2. I hated Xbox, even though I was the Xbox QA lead for my company at it's apex. I hated the idea of the 360 even more. But 9 months after 360's launch, after seeing what it could do, and witnessing a mudslide of Sony lies and shitty tactics across many technologies, I decided to buy a 360 and haven't looked back.

And Thrustbucket: We're definitely all entitled to our own opinions. But seriously, do some research before you start spouting out such claims like "clear now that there is nothing super special about the cell processor" or "They literally bet the future of the whole company on it." It does nothing to benefit the discussion if you have nothing to back it up besides your "hunch."


Um ok. The Sony fanboy's, for the first year of the PS3's existence, excused it's same-as-360 graphics on the technology being so new, as I'm sure you know. So how much more time needs to pass before the "time" excuse runs dry? Even Sony published titles with gaggles of money behind them haven't shown the "true power" of the PS3. Seriously? You still believe two years from now we'll see something earth shattering that "truly proves the PS3 is far beyond 360"? Seriously?

Yes, my discourse on Sony betting the farm on Blu-ray is a hunch, but not just my own. Many published analysits have been saying the same thing for a year now. It's still a hunch though.

My Cell/PS3 power "hunches" are based on facts. Based on games released and in everyones hands. Your assumptions it's true power is yet unlocked are based on faith and hope.

#42 thrustbucket

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:04 PM

Your baseless claims of Sony spending gobs of "incentive" money to make bluray win makes you sound like a jaded hddvd fanboy. You imply that PS3 doesn't have (m)any good games. You dont' have a PSN in your profile.

I call a bluff. You don't really have a PS3 and you're here to troll.


I never said the PS3 has no good games. Where did I say that? I borrowed, played, and enjoyed Uncharted. Plus MGS 4 and Wipeout look pretty cool.

It's a well known fact that Sony coughed up around 500 million dollars to Warner brothers to end the war (Who was planning to go HD DVD exclusive). Before that, they did similar things to Disney and Fox. Big deal, they had the money to do it, they make a fortune off of all printed Blu Ray titles, so what? That's business.

If I was an HD DVD fanboy, why did I buy a PS3 for blu-ray and own many blu-ray's?

My PSN is Thrustbucket, shockingly enough. Look it up. It should still be there, unless it gets deleted for inactivity.

#43 willardhaven

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:04 PM

Blu-Ray will really take off when they start to offer entire television series on a couple of discs.
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#44 Teh Nitwit

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:06 PM

Well, this is a PS3 forum. Are you really surprised?


So anyone that doesn't believe that PS3 is a failure is a Sony fanboy? Count me in then. I believe that PS3's userbase will eventually outgrow xbox2's. I also believe that Wii is popular because it's popular and that eventually people will get bored of it.

#45 Thomas96

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:11 PM

If the PS3 comes out this generation to be in third place, I don't think that they failed, they still put out a great console. PS3 still has a lot of years left before its not the lead Sony platform on the market. The ps3 is being outsold by the 360 and everything's looking good for the 360. I don't think that its totally impossible for Sony to perhaps come out second during this generation. As gamers, we want to see Sony react quickly and drop prices ( I know I do) but Sony is piloting their own ship, they have their own plan, and it seems like they're sticking to it. The Ps3 is going to be a very different product in the next year or two... especially when they release the DVR component, and especially if they can get all PS3 to be BC via software emulation. I'd love to see a PSN store w/ the entire PS2 collection up for sale. A PS3 for 199 w/ voucher for free PSN PS2 games can really turn the tide in a future holiday season. The market changes, so I don't think anyone should be claiming a winner especially between the 360 and PS3 at this time. Its not like the numbers are that far apart either.
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#46 Teh Nitwit

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:12 PM

I never said the PS3 has no good games. Where did I say that? I borrowed, played, and enjoyed Uncharted. Plus MGS 4 and Wipeout look pretty cool.

It's a well known fact that Sony coughed up around 500 million dollars to Warner brothers to end the war (Who was planning to go HD DVD exclusive). Before that, they did similar things to Disney and Fox. Big deal, they had the money to do it, they make a fortune off of all printed Blu Ray titles, so what? That's business.

My PSN is Thrustbucket, shockingly enough. Look it up. It should still be there, unless it gets deleted for inactivity.


You never said it, but you implied it. Plus, the things you say about Sony paying off all the studios are all lies, spread by the hddvd fanboys. Fox went bluray because bluray was supposed to be harder to crack. Warner didn't get a dime from Sony to go bluray. You believing this bullshit doesn't add to your credibility.

#47 Predator21281

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:17 PM

As long as God of War 3 comes out, I will continue to support Sony.
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#48 Thomas96

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:22 PM

I never said the PS3 has no good games. Where did I say that? I borrowed, played, and enjoyed Uncharted. Plus MGS 4 and Wipeout look pretty cool.

It's a well known fact that Sony coughed up around 500 million dollars to Warner brothers to end the war (Who was planning to go HD DVD exclusive). Before that, they did similar things to Disney and Fox. Big deal, they had the money to do it, they make a fortune off of all printed Blu Ray titles, so what? That's business.

If I was an HD DVD fanboy, why did I buy a PS3 for blu-ray and own many blu-ray's?

My PSN is Thrustbucket, shockingly enough. Look it up. It should still be there, unless it gets deleted for inactivity.


Why don't you use your PS3?
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#49 thrustbucket

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:24 PM

If the PS3 comes out this generation to be in third place, I don't think that they failed, they still put out a great console.


QFT

You never said it, but you implied it. Plus, the things you say about Sony paying off all the studios are all lies, spread by the hddvd fanboys. Fox went bluray because bluray was supposed to be harder to crack. Warner didn't get a dime from Sony to go bluray. You believing this bullshit doesn't add to your credibility.


You really have no clue do you.

Actually, yes, you are right about Fox, initially. They chose Blu-Ray for copy protection.

You clearly were not in the thick of it pre CES last January when all the shit hit the fan. Toshiba, HD DVD group, AND Warner Bros had a huge two hour event/party planned. 12 hours before this event, Warner announced Blu-Ray exclusivity and the event was canceled.

In the week that followed in the aftermath, multiple insiders from many company's came out of the woodwork and all corroborated the following:

  • Warner Bros had been bribed enough by Toshiba to go exclusive for X amount of time (not permanently).
  • Fox had actually been courted the same way, although Fox told Toshiba/HD DVD that they would only go exclusive if Warner did. This was going to be announced at the big event as well.
  • At some point Sony caught wind of this and made a counter offer to Warner that they couldn't refuse. The details of the offer are a closely guarded secret, although those on the other side, knowing what their offer was, said it had to be worth around 500 million. (This is not just in cash handed to them, it's mostly in publishing/distribution incentives)
  • The biggest proof of all of this is the fact that most of the big announcement party with Warner Bros was canceled only 12 hours before the show, since Warner no longer had anything to announce for HD DVD.

Dirty tactics all around. All of which is well known now in the nerd-AVSforum hatchery. Deny what you will and call me what you will, if it helps you sleep at night.

#50 zewone

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:26 PM

lol

#51 Thomas96

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:26 PM

You never said it, but you implied it. Plus, the things you say about Sony paying off all the studios are all lies, spread by the hddvd fanboys. Fox went bluray because bluray was supposed to be harder to crack. Warner didn't get a dime from Sony to go bluray. You believing this bullshit doesn't add to your credibility.


why does he even care that Sony (maybe) paid WB to come to Blu Ray, and why does he care so much about the "lies" that sony has produced. Its like he was complaining about everthing but the product itself. He calls Sony out for lies, but is still willing to do business w/ and on a console that's almost guaranteed to malfunction. (if it hasn't already).
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#52 thrustbucket

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:26 PM

Why don't you use your PS3?


It's a combination of things. It's not that I hate it. I mostly bought it for blu-ray. I lost my job in August and haven't been able to afford more movies.

I did get the blockbuster pass recently though, but I've mostly been using it on games.

As silly as it sounds, it's also because the way my A/V setup is, it's sort of a pain to switch between devices; so I need a pretty good reason.

I am also several firmware updates behind and they are usually slow and painful.

I plan to use it for some blu ray watching over the christmas break.

#53 Thomas96

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:31 PM

QFT



You really have no clue do you.

Actually, yes, you are right about Fox, initially. They chose Blu-Ray for copy protection.

You clearly were not in the thick of it pre CES last January when all the shit hit the fan. Toshiba, HD DVD group, AND Warner Bros had a huge two hour event/party planned. 12 hours before this event, Warner announced Blu-Ray exclusivity and the event was canceled.

In the week that followed in the aftermath, multiple insiders from many company's came out of the woodwork and all corroborated the following:

  • Warner Bros had been bribed enough by Toshiba to go exclusive for X amount of time (not permanently).
  • Fox had actually been courted the same way, although Fox told Toshiba/HD DVD that they would only go exclusive if Warner did. This was going to be announced at the big event as well.
  • At some point Sony caught wind of this and made a counter offer to Warner that they couldn't refuse. The details of the offer are a closely guarded secret, although those on the other side, knowing what their offer was, said it had to be worth around 500 million. (This is not just in cash handed to them, it's mostly in publishing/distribution incentives)
  • The biggest proof of all of this is the fact that most of the big announcement party with Warner Bros was canceled only 12 hours before the show, since Warner no longer had anything to announce for HD DVD.

Dirty tactics all around. All of which is well known now in the nerd-AVSforum hatchery. Deny what you will and call me what you will, if it helps you sleep at night.



You know, that's the type of wheeling and dealing that Sony needs in regards to getting these exclusives for the PS3. When is Sony gonna start wheeling and dealing for the PS3? Sony themselves are holding the PS3 back and I don't understand why? maybe until they can get it to be a cheaper console. Why sell a million consoles at a loss, delay your own sales, until the console is profitable - I wonder if that's a business strategy?
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#54 Ecofreak

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:32 PM

Really nothing of interest for me that's exclusive for either platform that's coming out. But I had a lot more invested into the 360 by the time I bought a PS3 for a movie player. All my friends and family have 360 and are on my friends list, so that weighs a lot heavier than God of War 3 (the only exclusive I might be interested in).


That's totally understandable, and several people on the boards have expressed similar interest. It can be hard to justify $400 if the PS3 is being used only as a blu-ray DVD player.

I still don't think Blu-ray will ever replace DVD's popularity. And I do think Sony was betting it would (using PS2/DVD logic).


I'm inclined to agree with you. As time goes on, I believe that direct download will become more popular and eliminate physical media assuming the broadband rates keep up. If we keep our "slow" (compared to the world) standards, then I expect physical media to maintain strong dominance.

Of course I realize that. I do not think that the PS3 alone can sink Sony even if it was a dismal failure (it isn't). But I do think both the PS3 and Blu-ray together, are so depended on by Sony that a dismal failure of both (hypothetically) could mortally wound Sony.

You have to remember, Sony invested something like 2 billion in Cell research alone. Then they spent nearly 1 billion in fluffy incentives to studios to get Blu-Ray to win. No company, no matter the size, can afford to put that many eggs in two baskets without depending on them a great deal for overall company success.


I agree that Sony has invested heaps of money into both the development and promotion of both Cell and blu-ray, probably as much as any tech company has in any emerging technology. But that's the risk Sony has always been known for and it's paid off handsomely (ex. Walkman). They have of course failed before (Beta tape and mini-disk in the West).

Unfortunately, technology has reached the point that each incremental advance requires even more money to be successfully developed. If Sony wanted to control the future of computing and gaming, they may have had little choice in the investment. The stakes made the investment almost a matter of necessity.

I will maintain that Sony will not fold because of the money they put into blu-ray and Cell. If they were to go down, it would be because of the greater drop in consumer spending if there is a prolonged recession or they can't drop price. Otherwise, they'll continue to earn royalties from both the PS3 and Cell to at least break even or return a modest profit.

The PS2 was a runaway success that will likely never be repeated, that's an important point to accept. The PS3 has cost Sony so much money, and they still lose so much money on the hardware, that they releasing another console in the next two years would be near suicide.

They will have no choice but to try and convince people that buying a PS3 is a better idea than Microsoft's next console for at least 2 years of the "720's" life.


PS2's success was certainly a large contributor to the widespread support it received from the industry.

I believe that Sony invested so much into the PS3 because they wanted it to have a long life cycle. Otherwise, they could have released an incremental change. Sony may have tried to leap-frog Microsoft and Nintendo by creating a beast at such large financial cost. Only time will tell how well it will pay off.

There was also 25 million PS2's in homes at that time, which was one hell of an incentive for a developer to focus resources on squeezing it's lemons.


The development of tools to make programing for the PS2 must have come out sooner than the 25 million mark. That figure seems a bit suspect, personally.

At least for the PS3, I know that developers like Gorilla (makers of the PS3) are making tools and will license them to other developers for future development. Heck - Sega made the new Canvass engine for Valkyria Chronicles in a few years and would be willing to license it out to anyone interested.

Things will only get easier as first party developers and exclusive titles are being made, and shared community wide.

I am certainly not arguing that Cell architecture is awesome and can and will be used in many devices in the future. Nor would I argue it has awesome potential.

But I always have, and still do, question Sony's faith in Cell for games. There is still no reason that they have yet provided that it was a good investment for games, especially using version 1.0 of any architecture. It's clear they simply wanted to use Cell because they had invested so much in it already.


The PS3 was in development was the explicit idea of using the Cell, not using Cell because it was being developed. I believe that we'll start to see any benefits of this architecture when Killzone 2 is released at the earliest. From some beta videos I've seen, it's certainly impressive and hopefully will showcase the Cell's capabilities.

Although I doubt any developer will enumerate why the Cell is awesome.

I really don't think the PS3 will ever be a failure. It's already sold too much for that, and Blu Ray will ensure it isn't. But it will certainly not come close to repeating the PS2's success story.


The only console to have a chance at beating that record is the Wii. But I have serious doubts that the number of games sold will match that of the PS2, just based on the emerging demographics and reluctance of developers for making anything besides kiddy games. Which is a shame, because I honestly had such high hopes for the system. Now it just sits unplugged for 8 months.

I was a MASSIVE Sony fanboy with PS1 and PS2. I hated Xbox, even though I was the Xbox QA lead for my company at it's apex. I hated the idea of the 360 even more. But 9 months after 360's launch, after seeing what it could do, and witnessing a mudslide of Sony lies and shitty tactics across many technologies, I decided to buy a 360 and haven't looked back.


Everyone has a different falling-in-love story. ;)

Um ok. The Sony fanboy's, for the first year of the PS3's existence, excused it's same-as-360 graphics on the technology being so new, as I'm sure you know. So how much more time needs to pass before the "time" excuse runs dry? Even Sony published titles with gaggles of money behind them haven't shown the "true power" of the PS3. Seriously? You still believe two years from now we'll see something earth shattering that "truly proves the PS3 is far beyond 360"? Seriously?


Is it fair to compare two systems when one had a year-head start? If you compare the games the PS3 is making to those in the 360 line-up of 2007, how would the two stack up?

Both systems did not start out of the gate together, and that was a strategic choice by MS. So far, it's paying off. But some would argue the 360 didn't really hit its stride till this year. Which, if you allow the same amount of time, would mean that this is the year when the PS3 comes of age.

So I say this year or bust. Killzone 2, Final Fantasy XIII, Uncharted 2, the new Team ICO game, God of War III, Gran Turismo 5, Heavy Rain, etc. I can see no better time for the PS3 to put-up-or-shut up.

Yes, my discourse on Sony betting the farm on Blu-ray is a hunch, but not just my own. Many published analysits have been saying the same thing for a year now. It's still a hunch though.

My Cell/PS3 power "hunches" are based on facts. Based on games released and in everyones hands. Your assumptions it's true power is yet unlocked are based on faith and hope.


Yes, our assumptions are based on faith and hope. But negative press & criticism will always get more air time on the nets than good news. I don't put much stock in what analysts have to say since there is always a way to spin statistics to suit your needs or perspectives.
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#55 thrustbucket

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:32 PM

why does he even care that Sony (maybe) paid WB to come to Blu Ray, and why does he care so much about the "lies" that sony has produced. Its like he was complaining about everthing but the product itself. He calls Sony out for lies, but is still willing to do business w/ and on a console that's almost guaranteed to malfunction. (if it hasn't already).


You are right, it doesn't matter anymore. But it adds to many other tactics Sony has had their hand in recently that has made me very disappointed in them. Like any of you PS3 fanboy's are actually happy about the removal of PS2 compatibility....

I camped out at Target for the PS2. Overnight. In 50 degrees. I'll never forget that. I used that damn PS2 so much it barely works anymore.

My 360 says it was manufactured in August of 2005 on the back and has never broke.

Both companies do despicable things. That's the nature of super large corporations. I tried to explain why I'm more a 360 guy this time around. The PS3 has severely lagged behind in it's social aspects, interface, software, OS - all of which have become as important to me, or more, than exclusives.

But I am a sucker for God of War, and that's a big reason why I haven't sold the PS3, even though I was disappointed in GOW 2, I hope 3 blows me away.

#56 Thomas96

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:33 PM

It's a combination of things. It's not that I hate it. I mostly bought it for blu-ray. I lost my job in August and haven't been able to afford more movies.

I did get the blockbuster pass recently though, but I've mostly been using it on games.

As silly as it sounds, it's also because the way my A/V setup is, it's sort of a pain to switch between devices; so I need a pretty good reason.

I am also several firmware updates behind and they are usually slow and painful.

I plan to use it for some blu ray watching over the christmas break.



You've been hanging around AVSforms, (if So) what's the reaction from people on their forums? Last time I was there, people were really into the PS3, using it for a home theater computer (cheap one at least) and they seemed to really appreciate all the features.
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#57 Ecofreak

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:34 PM

You know, Thrustbucket, parts of me believe you come into threads just to pick a fight. ;)
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#58 thrustbucket

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:37 PM

Ecofreak, I think we mostly agree... 98%.

You are right, this year is key. I actually hope Sony pulls out some fat elephants with Killzone and the Ico developer.

I may be a 360 guy this generation but the very last thing I want is Microsoft to come close to cornering the market. The competition is important and it needs to always exist.

#59 thrustbucket

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:41 PM

You know, Thrustbucket, parts of me believe you come into threads just to pick a fight. ;)

I'm sorry I give that impression. I'm pretty bored today. :)

You've been hanging around AVSforms, (if So) what's the reaction from people on their forums? Last time I was there, people were really into the PS3, using it for a home theater computer (cheap one at least) and they seemed to really appreciate all the features.


Yes that's absolutely true. AVSers have felt for over a year now that you can't get a better blu-ray player for the money. Me included.

The tweakability on the PS3, like installing Linux, is really cool. AVS types love that shit.

Any high definition home theater enthusiast on a budget would be stupid not to have a PS3, imo.

I just wish it wasn't such a pain in the ass to get video streaming from networked PC's to work, then I'd likely use it more (that's what I use my 360 most for lately - and netflix).

#60 Thomas96

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:45 PM

You are right, it doesn't matter anymore. But it adds to many other tactics Sony has had their hand in recently that has made me very disappointed in them. Like any of you PS3 fanboy's are actually happy about the removal of PS2 compatibility....

I camped out at Target for the PS2. Overnight. In 50 degrees. I'll never forget that. I used that damn PS2 so much it barely works anymore.

My 360 says it was manufactured in August of 2005 on the back and has never broke.

Both companies do despicable things. That's the nature of super large corporations. I tried to explain why I'm more a 360 guy this time around. The PS3 has severely lagged behind in it's social aspects, interface, software, OS - all of which have become as important to me, or more, than exclusives.

But I am a sucker for God of War, and that's a big reason why I haven't sold the PS3, even though I was disappointed in GOW 2, I hope 3 blows me away.



Now, wait.. if you update your PS3 fully... you mean to tell me that you feel that its "severly lagging" in social aspects, interface, software, and OS?

I know you're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think the PS3 is lagging in any category.. all my potential xbox 360 friends have friend lists that are full, also in regards to social aspects, there's HOME coming out whose sole purpose is to create an online community, a community aspect that even the 360 doesn' t have, as there's no way to meet new friends via the XBL service. Now the interface for the PS3 is all in a persons opinion, but its nice, simple and fast, and if you look at the NXE, its more similar to the XMB than previous interface. The PS3 online features are FREE... you can stream video from Hulu, and various websites. PS3 has come a long way and made a lot of changes for the better. I just don't see how you can say that's "severly lagging" behind anything that on the Xbox platform.
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