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Is Sony's PS3 Really a Sinking Ship?


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#121 mwynn

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:57 AM

Sorry, I should have specified it was in regards to this:

http://www.cheapassg...7&postcount=113


Sorry that did not help at all. Does it have anything to do with playing games and having fun? Or is it more internet bash the PS3 stuff?

If it is bashing stuff, I am truly not interested. If it is about gaming fun, tell me more.

#122 dyeknom

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:57 AM

it's a sony first party game so it's not multiplatform release. it may be boring because it's the same game as before with better graphics, new weapons, moves, etc....


Sort of like every sequel... like Halo, Gears of War 2, Mario Platformers, Devil May Cry 4, all FPS war games, all fighting games. By that logic... only 3-4 games ever come out that are "not boring"

#123 zewone

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:02 AM

Sorry that did not help at all. Does it have anything to do with playing games and having fun? Or is it more internet bash the PS3 stuff?

If it is bashing stuff, I am truly not interested. If it is about gaming fun, tell me more.


It's internet bashing; carry on with your regularly scheduled gaming fun. I will do the same.

#124 pochaccoheaven

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:09 AM

Sort of like every sequel... like Halo, Gears of War 2, Mario Platformers, Devil May Cry 4, all FPS war games, all fighting games. By that logic... only 3-4 games ever come out that are "not boring"


guitar hero is getting thinner. when you read review they say that it's the same formula, samething from the previous game or that the game feels like nothings change. it tells you that they are getting bored with the same gameplay. those fps games on the 360, they will get hit and it will hit them hard because the system thrives on the hardcore. halo 3 is a good example because people called it halo 2.5.

#125 Thomas96

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:20 AM

White Knight Chronicles
God of War III
Heavy Rain
InFamous
Yakuza 3
killzone 2
Final Fantasy Versus XIII

These are multiplatform games?


How about one the 360 fans make a list of upcoming exclusive 360 titles. I guess you can start with GOW3 2010.
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#126 shadowkast

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:34 AM

the whole damn economy is a sinking ship, not the ps3. I'm just not sure if most people understand what a PS3 can do/is capable of, ya know.

Consumers say "Can the PS3 'waggle' or have that pretty 'red ring' in the front?" (had to throw that last one in there to fire up some peeps) "No?!? then why is it the most expensive?" and they pass up a great product. oh well. PS2 had it's ups and downs as well and it's still selling software/hardware.
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#127 thrustbucket

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:38 AM

Also, lol @ the bitter hd dvd fanboy in this thread talking about warner being paid off, etc. Those are bitter tears like none other. Blu-ray is the defacto standard in 1080p movies. Its done.


Blu-ray is the defacto standard in 1080p movies, FOR NOW. And it won't last nearly as long as the standard as DVD did as long as broadband speeds continue to progress exponentially as they have.

It could be less than a year from now that we have a service offering HD movies at higher bitrate than Blu-Ray can offer. And you can bet your ass Sony will fight all such things (at a Studio level) tooth and nail.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.


I believe Zewone is trying to say that since the PS3's launch, it's fanboys have been saying "Just wait until _____ comes out, then you'll see the PS3 take over". And he's saying there is only one game left on that list.

It's pretty similar to the fanboys also saying "Just wait _____ and you'll see how much better PS3 graphics are than 360".

Six months
One year
Two years
Three years
Second generation games
Third generation games

Four years
Five years
Some day
End of it's life cycle

No matter. Three months before the Wii came out I was trying to explain to folks here that I'd seen the hardware up close and it was essentially as powerful as an overclocked Gamecube; Nintendo fanboys marched on me like Christians on Proposition 8.

#128 Nephlabobo

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:41 AM

White Knight Chronicles
God of War III
Heavy Rain
InFamous
Yakuza 3
killzone 2
Final Fantasy Versus XIII

These are multiplatform games?


No - but besides Killzone 2 and InFamous, are any of these confirmed as 2009 releases?

I don't even think Yakuza 3 is confirmed as coming out in NA yet and I thought GOW and Heavy Rain were 2010. If FF Versus makes to NA in 2009, I will eat my shoes.

#129 mykevermin

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:42 AM

FFS, people.
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#130 dyeknom

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:53 AM

I thought GOW and Heavy Rain were 2010.


God of War 3 has had a 2009 assumed release date since E3. It was reconfirmed to have a 2009 release date at the VGA. Some say Q4, some say Q1. So somewhere between Q1 and Q4 -_-

Heavy rain also has a 2009 release date scheduled, but it's place in 2009 is uncertain... so they put it at the latest date.

#131 Malik112099

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:05 AM

Why is Heavy Rain being thrown around like it is hot shit?

Heavy Rain = Next year's Lair
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#132 Paco

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:09 AM

Why is Heavy Rain being thrown around like it is hot shit?

Heavy Rain = Next year's Lair


That's because Indigo Prophecy was a great game until the last 20% or so where they let complete bullshit over run it. We're hoping they can recreate that excellent 80% of the game while avoiding the shit that is the last part of the game.
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#133 x3x1x

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:36 AM

Sony. The 360 was sold as a gaming machine, and continues to be sold...as a gaming machine. The PS3's first 2 year sales are going to be HEAVILY skewed to its performance as a BluRay player, which kept it alive the first 2 years. Now that BD players are less than $200, and Sony hasn't exactly built up a stable of killer apps for the system, its sales will start to decline...particularly now that its primary competition is as much as $200 cheaper.


I find this to be an intriguing point. Yes, Sony used the ps3 as a blu ray player until those prices came down. By offering blu ray + games for only $600 it was quite an attractive package to people who wanted the latest video tech, but didn't want to shell out $1000 for a standalone player.

But, now prices are going down and the ps3 isn't the best blu ray deal out there for people who just want to watch movies. So now Sony has to rely on games to sell systems and not games + movies. And when a consumer in this economy just wants to play some damn games and could care less about all the fanboy BS, of course they're going to pick up the $200 system. The ps3 doesn't look like an attractive gaming machine.

Now, in 2009 I hope Sony cuts the price in order to make that decision harder for on the fence consumers. Otherwise, they will be screwed because their console base won't expand and games will continue to sell tens of thousands more on the 360. But, there will be very attractive exclusives in '09 that will show just how capable of a gaming machine the ps3 is, and will start to cater to the undecided consumers out there.

#134 mwynn

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:03 PM

Why is Heavy Rain being thrown around like it is hot shit?

Heavy Rain = Next year's Lair


Since you have played it how is the story?

#135 Thomas96

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:41 PM

I don't anyone can make another Lair... They had the graphics, they had the story, good characters, and then they tried to make it into another Rogue Squadron - verbatim. How stupid and ridiculous could Factor 5 have been. I feel like they didn't take their project very serious. Then they tried to force motion controls on everyone. So Malik112099 Heavy Rain is NOT next years Lair. Actually I was listening to the 1up show podcast and they were excited about the game, saying that it had better graphics than Killzone; considered Heavy Rain the best graphics on the system. Factor 5 was stupid, so don't put down other devs just to try and make some ridiculous point.
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#136 spiderdog

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:54 PM

I do wish sony could get netflix streaming like nxe has now.

http://themediamall....ause::applause:
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#137 Thomas96

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:14 PM

Uncharted 2 - http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=345546

If anyone can find a 360 game that looks as good as this, please post the link to the pics....please.
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#138 Corvin

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:56 PM

[quote name='The Mana Knight']
Almost no one will get the success again. While Wii has done well, I doubt it will be PS2 successful in the end.
[/QUOTE]

As pointed out, the Wii has already passed where the PS2 was at the same point in it's life cycle. It's only going to sell more as it gets cheaper. That's assuming Nintendo ever drops the price. They are still flying off the shelf at full SRP two years after launch. That is huge.

[quote name='Ecofreak']The Wii will probably beat out the PS2 in pure hardware sales, but I believe that the amount of software sold on the Wii will be significantly below that of the PS2. [/QUOTE]

I know, different poster but it is funny to see the debate shift ... so when the hardware argument fails, switch to software sales. Got it.

[quote name='Blackout'] I stand by what I say, PS4 or whatever they decide to call it is going to be great because they get to use all the screw ups and stuff to improve on next gen. Home, online, social aspect, etc etc and all the other stuff they're trying to do will reach fruition in the next round. PS3 is just a huge ass growing pain.[/QUOTE]

By that token, the Gamecube should have hit it out of the park if Nintendo would have learned from their mistakes on the N64. They didn't.

[quote name='HeadRusch']Its great to see Sony Fanboys doing this complete 180 reversal. [/QUOTE]

I do find that ironic myself. 10 years ago Sony was right where the Wii is now. Quantity over Quality. They put out all kinds of shit for the PS1 while the N64 fans clung desperately to the Quality over Quantity angle. Today those roles are completely reversed. Now it's the Sony fans that are clinging to that Quality v. Quantity angle while Nintendo puts/allows the most shovelware/shit on their system.

[quote name='mang9432']the PS3 is certainly heavy enough to sink a ship.[/QUOTE]

... also ironic. :lol:

[quote name='The Mana Knight'][Ratchet & Clank]Best platformer this gen.[/QUOTE]

It was a great game but lets call a spade a spade, it has nothing on Super Mario Galaxy. I don't recall R&C being a GOTY contender, let alone winner(to some), in that regard.

[quote name='Ecofreak']
Besides, the base model of the 360 is $200. Each subsequent price drop, I believe, will bring in fewer people since those who wanted one will have bought one already. [/QUOTE]

That's the exact opposite of how this works. More people buy in when the system is cheaper and the library is huge and cheap. Just look at the PS2.

[quote name='willardhaven']Blu-Ray will really take off when they start to offer entire television series on a couple of discs.[/QUOTE]

Won't happen, unless you want standard-def transfers on those blu-rays. The disc count will remain basically the same. Hi-def transfers eat up a lot of space which is why you still see TV seasons with only 4 hour programs per disc.

[quote name='denze']
My guess, established user base both legit and non legit. Lemmings jumped on the bandwagon= profit[/QUOTE]

:rofl: What the hell is a non-legit user base?

[quote name='tenzor']In my opinion these are the 10 things Sony needs to do immediatley if they ever want to ever surpass Nintendo and Microsoft in this current console war:

1. Create a new SKU for a 120GB PS3 System for $399.99 with full backwards compatibility for PS2 games. Include a free Blu-Ray remote to sell it more as a Blu-Ray player for the people who are not hardcore gamers.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, if you are going to release and market your system as THE premier hi-def experience, #1 concern would be including a fucking hi-def cable. It doesn't even have to be HDMI, component can handle 1080i.

[quote name='mwynn']I have no idea what you are trying to say here.[/QUOTE]

The point is that whatever the next big game is, every six months or so, it is tossed around as the system savior... until sales numbers roll in and then the next big game is touted as the turning point. MGS4 being the exception.

[quote name='Thomas96']Uncharted 2 - http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=345546

If anyone can find a 360 game that looks as good as this, please post the link to the pics....please.[/QUOTE]

:roll: Post some in-game video footage instead of photoshopped stills and then we'll talk.

I have all three and they all have their strong points. This 'sinking ship' was the kick in the nuts Sony needed to get those corporate egos in check. Competition breeds better products and price wars. Just look how far the XMB has come in two years. Does anyone here honestly think that would have happened if the PS3 had a Wii-like success out of the gates and left the 360 in the dust? Not a chance. They needed competition to force their hand.

#139 HeadRusch

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:12 PM

Uncharted 2 - http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=345546

If anyone can find a 360 game that looks as good as this, please post the link to the pics....please.


Hows about we wait to see the game in real-time motion, where you're sitting 5 feet from a 720p image to judge...and not use obviously super-high-rez renders with gobs of AA applied. I can't tell if any of those scenes are in game or from cutscenes. Uncharted for the PS3 looked good....but it didn't look as good as its screenshots when viewed up close and personal.

#140 mykevermin

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:17 PM

Amidst all these essays is the lack of realization that there doesn't have to be a "gamecube" of this generation. There's enough breaking of tradition this gen - just look at the implied language so many have made that the 360 is this gen's leader, when it's not even close. But it is! The Wii sells tons of software, but only certain titles. What multiplatform software does it sell even remotely close to the 360/PS3 outside of Guitar Hero? Madden? 360 leads there.

So the traditional patterns we've come to expect aren't the case: the market leader is not the software leader in proportion of titles sold.

That said, Sony will make themselves a distant third if they don't drop the price of the console soon. They can't afford to, we're told. Maybe that's true, and maybe that's not. Sony is, however, caught in a bind because they can't afford to keep it $400, and they can't afford to drop the price.

Do they want to take a loss up front and make up the profits in software and Blu-Ray sales? Or do they want to keep the machine profitable and continue conservatively? I'm no expert to say what they should do, especially considering the current financial climate (and it's not getting any better anytime soon). But they're going to continue to lag in sales if they don't drop the price. I think we can all say that for a fact.
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#141 Teh Nitwit

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:22 PM

Blu-ray is the defacto standard in 1080p movies, FOR NOW. And it won't last nearly as long as the standard as DVD did as long as broadband speeds continue to progress exponentially as they have.

It could be less than a year from now that we have a service offering HD movies at higher bitrate than Blu-Ray can offer. And you can bet your ass Sony will fight all such things (at a Studio level) tooth and nail.


You have confirmed what I had suspected. I've seen enough people like you on avsforum to recognize an hddvd fanboy when I see one. You would like to see bluray fail and you're telling yourself that it will lose to downloads. You just lost what little credibility you had with me.

As for the topic, I have this to add:

When making predictions, the most important things to consider are that:
1. PS2 is still selling well.
2. Wii is outselling PS3 and xbox2

Both are standard def. It means that consumers are not very interested in graphics in video games. The graphics capabilities of PS3 and xbox2 are sufficient to last for the next decade. Also, improving graphics adds tremendous cost to the development of the games and reduces the overall profitability of the product. So, the developers don't necessarily see the benefit in pushing graphics any further. Look what happened to PC gaming.

MS will shoot themselves in the foot if they release the next version of xbox. They will piss off many of their current customers (who will think that xbox2 will be abandoned just like xbox 1 was), and they will dilute the developer support and userbase. If they don't abandon xbox2, their xbox3 will compete against it and lose. So, they will piss off a lot of people for the sole benefit of releasing a console with extra power which the developers can't even utilize (have no incentive to).

I think MS knows this and they will keep xbox2 alive for many years to come. They will combat PS3 by slashing their prices, which will work well enough for a while, but which ultimately will cease to matter.

PS3 will win out over xbox2 in the long run because it is more future-proof. It has slightly more power and has blu-ray. People will like to have only one device to do their gaming and movie watching. In the end, PS3 helped bluray succeed, and bluray will help PS3 succeed.

I expect that people will get bored of Wii in a year or two, and when they do, Nintendo will release an HD version. However, Wii will no longer be a fad and people won't care too much about an HD version.

#142 Multicron

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:38 PM

The thing is while PS3 has not had its strongest sales in NA, it still has the lead in Japan and the PAL land. if you compare TOTAL 360 and PS3 sales this year. They are actually not that far off from each other, and PS3 didn't even cut its price (they most likely will next year, after the fiscal year is over).


The Wii is kicking the PS3's ass everywhere: http://www.vgchartz.com/ . Only the 360 is truly stinking up the joint in Japan.

#143 Ryuukishi

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:39 PM

PS3 will win out over xbox2 in the long run because it is more future-proof. It has slightly more power and has blu-ray. People will like to have only one device to do their gaming and movie watching. In the end, PS3 helped bluray succeed, and bluray will help PS3 succeed.

I expect that people will get bored of Wii in a year or two, and when they do, Nintendo will release an HD version. However, Wii will no longer be a fad and people won't care too much about an HD version.

Maybe not you personally, but various people have been saying these things for two years now. The time when Wii sales will start sinking, 360 sales will plateau, and PS3 sales will surge ahead is always just around the next corner. Right after BD wins the format war. Right after Metal Gear Solid 4. Right after LittleBigPlanet. Right after Home. Right after Killzone 2. Etc...

Not saying it's impossible for things to change, but history is not on your side. What evidence do you have for your position, that's different from the evidence people have already been pointing to for the past two years?

ETA: I hope that doesn't sound too confrontational, like I said before I'm a Sony fan so I would love to be convinced of what you're saying (except for the Wii thing, I like my Wii and wish it continued success :) ). But for the PS3 to really come out on top, that sales turnaround has to really arrive at some point, and so far it's defied every prediction that it would arrive.

Edited by Ryuukishi, 16 December 2008 - 05:19 PM.

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#144 thrustbucket

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:48 PM

You have confirmed what I had suspected. I've seen enough people like you on avsforum to recognize an hddvd fanboy when I see one. You would like to see bluray fail and you're telling yourself that it will lose to downloads. You just lost what little credibility you had with me.


Lol. Ok. As I continue to collect Blu-Ray titles..... :roll:

As an AVser, I want the highest quality HD for the money. Anyone watching technology close enough would agree with what I said. As a Blu-Ray/Sony fanboy, of course you wouldn't like them writings on the walls.

It's funny that you can't invalidate anything I say or argue against it, you just flat out don't like it and have to stereotype me because of it. But alas, I remember where I am posting....

#145 TC

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:50 PM

This is pretty much the exact same story with my friends and I.

I bought a 60gig last summer when they first decided to get rid of the SKU and haven't regretted it. It allowed me to get rid of my PS2 and still play catch up with my backlog and play amazing games like Persona 3 and Persona 4.

I had a buddy NOT buy a PS3 becuase he couldnt find one in the stores that would play his PS2 collection...he just didn't understand (not that saavy of a gamer). All the rest of my friends (except two) bought a 360 becuase of the price point (these are all mid-late 20's gamers with jobs and HDTVs).

I love my PS3, but I have to admit they screwed themselves with the price point and PS2 backwards compatibility if my experiences tell me anything.



#146 denze

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:15 PM

Blu-ray is the defacto standard in 1080p movies, FOR NOW. And it won't last nearly as long as the standard as DVD did as long as broadband speeds continue to progress exponentially as they have.

It could be less than a year from now that we have a service offering HD movies at higher bitrate than Blu-Ray can offer. And you can bet your ass Sony will fight all such things (at a Studio level) tooth and nail.



I could see this happening, although in the very late future. Comcast bandwidth caps went live on Oct 1. Hopefully Time Warner won't follow suit.

#147 mykevermin

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:17 PM

Now we're going back to Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD digital distribution?

Which has precisely what to do with games? Are we going fully DD for the next-gen gaming systems?

;)
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#148 pochaccoheaven

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:35 PM

it isn't about price, if it was 360 would have topped the sales figures but it didn't. it's about what your game system can offer to it's customers as a gaming machine.

movie streaming, music downloads, etc... they don't mean much to the consumers as there are alternative devices for them. but as a game machine what can it offer in terms of gameplay and games that would say "hey this game machine is the killer."

that decrease in ps3 sales may mean a migration of ps3 owners to 360 owners or ps3 owners buying 360.

#149 thrustbucket

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:41 PM

Now we're going back to Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD digital distribution?

Which has precisely what to do with games? Are we going fully DD for the next-gen gaming systems?

;)


He started it!!! :lol:

No, really, it's just that whenever bluray enters the discussion (and with the PS3 it has to) and someone doesn't kneel down before it and suck it's big blu cock as the replacement for DVD for the next 10 years, people accuse you of having shrines to Toshiba in your basement and HD DVD logos tattooed on your ass, apparently.

#150 HowStern

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:47 PM

Don't know if it's been said yet but I'll always prefer, along with a lot of people, a hard copy over digital.
And they just created a 400gb BD that is compatible with current blu-ray players. So, it seems a bit more future proof.
At least, until Ultra HD =P and maybe still then.