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Is Sony's PS3 Really a Sinking Ship?


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#151 mykevermin

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:49 PM

that decrease in ps3 sales may mean a migration of ps3 owners to 360 owners or ps3 owners buying 360.


I'm going to go with "people weren't willing to spend $500-600 on a console when the economy was good, and they sure as Fuck aren't willing to spend $400-500 two years later with the shittiest economy since the great depression" for $100, Alex.

He started it!!! :lol:

No, really, it's just that whenever bluray enters the discussion (and with the PS3 it has to) and someone doesn't kneel down before it and suck it's big blu cock as the replacement for DVD for the next 10 years, people accuse you of having shrines to Toshiba in your basement and HD DVD logos tattooed on your ass, apparently.


Well, to be fair, you *were* one of the folks I remember from the great old HD/BD battles of yore, so he's not technically *incorrect*. ;)

BD is an interesting point for gaming, not from a movies standpoint, but looking forward. Will the next gen (and let's be fair, we'll be seeing early information on the next Xbox within the next 12 months if they want it out in 2010/2011) try to go digital only? Will they try to stick with DVD? Or will they shoot for their own proprietary format? I'm not capable of saying. But going with BD technology is absolutely an option that is on the table for all three. Sony, undoubtedly. I'm curious to see how it turns out for MS; now, I'm not interested in companies going out of business or staying in business - and Sony means more to me as a company that makes games than as a company with massive quarterly profits. But they may end up with a victory of sorts if BD is adopted as a format for the next generation of consoles. And I don't think there's a very convincing reason, for me, why it shouldn't be.

Unless you favor digital only; which should be reserved for game publishers and those who fervently hate, hate, hate gamestop. ;)
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#152 HeadRusch

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:49 PM

Both are standard def. It means that consumers are not very interested in graphics in video games.


No, it means that children and old people are not particularly interested in graphics in videogames. These are, oddly enough, the same groups of people who buy 1-2 games a year, tops. To a software development group this is anathema.

The graphics capabilities of PS3 and xbox2 are sufficient to last for the next decade.


Unlikely they will be "sufficient" for the next 2 years, forget the next 10. The systems are essentially tapped out at 720p resolution with limited AA and visual effects available. While games still look good, anyone who owns a 1080p television or projector is already seeing a softened, scaled image because fixed-pixel displays never look their best unless they are being fed their native resolution. Scaling hurts, no matter where its happening in the video chain.

Also, improving graphics adds tremendous cost to the development of the games and reduces the overall profitability of the product. So, the developers don't necessarily see the benefit in pushing graphics any further. Look what happened to PC gaming.


Absurd statement, flat out absurd.

MS will shoot themselves in the foot if they release the next version of xbox. They will piss off many of their current customers (who will think that xbox2 will be abandoned just like xbox 1 was), and they will dilute the developer support and userbase. If they don't abandon xbox2, their xbox3 will compete against it and lose. So, they will piss off a lot of people for the sole benefit of releasing a console with extra power which the developers can't even utilize (have no incentive to).


You sir, are nuts. The original xbox was all licensed hardware and microsoft dropped it because it was unprofitable. Rumors suggest the 360 was fast-tracked to production NOT to get a jump on Sony, but to get a jump on discontinuing the unprofitable xbox systems. In the end, nobody was really broken up that the xbox died so quickly.

Xbox 360 will get shrunken down and will remain for sale the same way the PS2 continues to make money, with a substantial game library available for it it wont compete with any new microsoft product that is pushing 1080p/60 with a likely BD drive available for movie viewing. This will be the go-to system to buy when you finally can't stand looking at PS2 SD graphics on your 47" 1080p set anymore.

PS3 will win out over xbox2 in the long run because it is more future-proof. It has slightly more power and has blu-ray. People will like to have only one device to do their gaming and movie watching. In the end, PS3 helped bluray succeed, and bluray will help PS3 succeed.


But nobody will own a PS3 as a BD player because Sony wont have the PS3 into the $200 range anytime in the forseeable future, and guess what..BD drives are already less than $200. By this time next year they'll be $99 or less.
The PS3 is going to have to do something it hasn't had to do in the past 2 years of its existance: Survive in the market as a game machine and only as a game machine, and frankly...KZ2, GOW3 and GT5 "due for release in 2011" ain't gonna cut it.
LBP, Ratchet and Clank, and other cute "Are these people mixing Booze and Prescription Painkillers again?" game decisions that Sony is relying on (or short-changing licenses by making them downloadble or multiplayer-only games) are only digging its hole
deeper.

I expect that people will get bored of Wii in a year or two, and when they do, Nintendo will release an HD version. However, Wii will no longer be a fad and people won't care too much about an HD version.


Nintendo wont release a HD version of the Wii until their customer base demands it. Since their customer base is largely young children and non-gamer relatives, I think there wont be much incentive for them to do that in the short term.
But If and when they do, you can rest assured that there will be millions upon millions of people lining up to buy this device with a new MARIO or KART game to play on it......

You are, quite possibly, the most out of touch poster I've yet read in this thread :P

#153 Teh Nitwit

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:04 PM

Lol. Ok. As I continue to collect Blu-Ray titles..... :roll:

As an AVser, I want the highest quality HD for the money. Anyone watching technology close enough would agree with what I said. As a Blu-Ray/Sony fanboy, of course you wouldn't like them writings on the walls.

It's funny that you can't invalidate anything I say or argue against it, you just flat out don't like it and have to stereotype me because of it. But alas, I remember where I am posting....


It's not that couldn't argue against what you were saying. It's that I believed your claims were so ridiculous, that it wasn't worth the effort. For one thing, there are plenty of people who are hddvd fanboys and still collect blurays. One does not preclude the other. hddvd fanboys are those who sided with toshiba and were hoping that hddvd would win (and are bitter about its loss). You seem to harbor a strong dislike of Sony and preach doom and gloom about bluray. The notion that DD will overtake bluray (in any timeframe that matters) is laughable and you believing it is only supports my suspicions about you.

#154 thrustbucket

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:10 PM

Well, to be fair, you *were* one of the folks I remember from the great old HD/BD battles of yore, so he's not technically *incorrect*. ;)

Your memory serves you well. You are correct. It's just that since then I have adopted a PS3 and now I support blu-ray. So for the price of my soul (;)) I think I should be allowed to have an opinion on HD movies without being accused of wanting a format I now support to fail.

BD is an interesting point for gaming, not from a movies standpoint, but looking forward. Will the next gen (and let's be fair, we'll be seeing early information on the next Xbox within the next 12 months if they want it out in 2010/2011) try to go digital only? Will they try to stick with DVD? Or will they shoot for their own proprietary format? I'm not capable of saying. But going with BD technology is absolutely an option that is on the table for all three. Sony, undoubtedly. I'm curious to see how it turns out for MS; now, I'm not interested in companies going out of business or staying in business - and Sony means more to me as a company that makes games than as a company with massive quarterly profits. But they may end up with a victory of sorts if BD is adopted as a format for the next generation of consoles. And I don't think there's a very convincing reason, for me, why it shouldn't be.

Unless you favor digital only; which should be reserved for game publishers and those who fervently hate, hate, hate gamestop. ;)


All of what you just said is just as interesting to me as the console wars.

When HD DVD came out, and then Blu Ray, I actually never really felt it mattered a whole lot which one actually "won" the war, because I ultimately felt, and still do, that they are both going to be far more transient than it's predecessors. So I scoff a little when anyone makes statements like "Blu-Ray is here stay".

As you allude to above, the entire reason Microsoft is in this console war to begin with was because they saw over ten years ago that the next big battle was going to be for convergent devices in the living room, which Sony was moving towards unanswered. It's going to be very interesting to see how they answer blu ray in the next console. My bets are on they will never support blu-ray, which makes it all the more interesting. Is that suicide? Will that leave them behind? Or do they have something huge up their sleeve that will make people forget blu-ray?

Anywho, the next gen battle, imo, is going to be far more interesting for this reason. Especially since even in Sony's next console they absolutely need to continue to put all their might behind supporting blu-ray.

I think this whole discussion is relevant to this thread because it's important to point out that Sony truly placed all bets on Blu-Ray replacing DVD and repeating the PS2 trojan horse effect. Unlike Microsoft, or even Toshiba, Sony needs Blu-Ray to be relavent far more than anyone needed HD DVD to be. And that need has defined much of their choices in the PS3 and it's marketing.

#155 crystalklear64

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:12 PM

I like DVDs.

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#156 Teh Nitwit

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:14 PM

You are, quite possibly, the most out of touch poster I've yet read in this thread :P


Could be. But I am not convinced by your arguments. We'll see. Ultimately, I wouldn't really mind being wrong. If xbox3 is reliable and has games I'm interested in then I will get it. Actually, I guess I was wrong about my predictions about xbox3. If it has xbox2 BC, then it would be very successful.

#157 mykevermin

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:14 PM

Yup. MS needs to be concerned with the profitability of their consoles and games.

Sony needs to be concerned with that *and* make Blu-Ray the de facto standard for at least the next 5 years.

Their console efforts have shown that they are spreading their resources thin. And their marketing of the console, I argue, has been shit except for the few months they had the commericals with that awful Saliva "Ladies and Gentlemen" song. The moving videos on peoples' bodies stuff I've seen lately sucks my balls. I'm not a marketer, but could shit out a better ad campaign than that.
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#158 HowStern

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:19 PM

The japan PS3 ads are even weirder.

http://www.psbeyond....3-ads.1013.html

#159 HeadRusch

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:23 PM

Sonys only hope for making the BD the standard is if DVD goes away. The chances of that happening in the next 3-5 years are..............remote would be an understatement of the highest order.

But see, it can't just stop there....Sony then needs for everyone who has built up a DVD library to now begin to convert that DVD library to BluRay. What are the odds that that will happen? Essentially zero when you are talking about mom and pops.

Plus now with Netflix and Blockbuster firmly established in the US zeitgeist, renting is a MUCh more plausable option than re-buying, which dooms Sonys format.

Sky high pricing doesn't help...most people wont buy a DVD until it hits $9.99 or less. You think these folks are going to pony up $23 to $35 bucks for a BD? Shinizzit no they wont.

So, Sony has one huge uphill battle. They'll eventually reach the top since its likely no new competing formats will take the place of blu ray discs, but a long, gradual climb will cripple the companies hopes because it gives time for that dreaded word...Digital Distribution...to perfect itself and change the worlds thinking on "building up an army of skinny plastic discs".

#160 Thomas96

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:23 PM

Hows about we wait to see the game in real-time motion, where you're sitting 5 feet from a 720p image to judge...and not use obviously super-high-rez renders with gobs of AA applied. I can't tell if any of those scenes are in game or from cutscenes. Uncharted for the PS3 looked good....but it didn't look as good as its screenshots when viewed up close and personal.



Really, Uncharted looked just as good as its screenshots, show me an old Uncharted screenshot that didn't accurately represent the way the game looked upon release. Look at the screenshots closely, there's some jaggies, its not perfect.
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#161 HowStern

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:31 PM

Sonys only hope for making the BD the standard is if DVD goes away. The chances of that happening in the next 3-5 years are..............remote would be an understatement of the highest order.

But see, it can't just stop there....Sony then needs for everyone who has built up a DVD library to now begin to convert that DVD library to BluRay. What are the odds that that will happen? Essentially zero when you are talking about mom and pops.

Plus now with Netflix and Blockbuster firmly established in the US zeitgeist, renting is a MUCh more plausable option than re-buying, which dooms Sonys format.

Sky high pricing doesn't help...most people wont buy a DVD until it hits $9.99 or less. You think these folks are going to pony up $23 to $35 bucks for a BD? Shinizzit no they wont.

So, Sony has one huge uphill battle. They'll eventually reach the top since its likely no new competing formats will take the place of blu ray discs, but a long, gradual climb will cripple the companies hopes because it gives time for that dreaded word...Digital Distribution...to perfect itself and change the worlds thinking on "building up an army of skinny plastic discs".


lolwut. Why would people need to replace their dvds? Blu-ray players will upconvert them. Sort of like the dvd/vhs combos they still sell. There's room for both.

digital distribution will fail terribly in the U.S. because of the snail speed internet. look at the U.S. internet speed compared to the UK or Japan or China.

Not to mention if you're HDD dies, everything you own is gone.

#162 Thomas96

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:43 PM

Sonys only hope for making the BD the standard is if DVD goes away. The chances of that happening in the next 3-5 years are..............remote would be an understatement of the highest order.

But see, it can't just stop there....Sony then needs for everyone who has built up a DVD library to now begin to convert that DVD library to BluRay. What are the odds that that will happen? Essentially zero when you are talking about mom and pops.

Plus now with Netflix and Blockbuster firmly established in the US zeitgeist, renting is a MUCh more plausable option than re-buying, which dooms Sonys format.

Sky high pricing doesn't help...most people wont buy a DVD until it hits $9.99 or less. You think these folks are going to pony up $23 to $35 bucks for a BD? Shinizzit no they wont.

So, Sony has one huge uphill battle. They'll eventually reach the top since its likely no new competing formats will take the place of blu ray discs, but a long, gradual climb will cripple the companies hopes because it gives time for that dreaded word...Digital Distribution...to perfect itself and change the worlds thinking on "building up an army of skinny plastic discs".



Blu Ray may become the standard one day, but its going to take time and more BIG movies like Batman The Dark Knight. 25% of Batman TDK sales were on blu Ray (600,000) when the movie costs around 24.99 - 29.99, I figure once Blu Ray can come down in price, then the market may accept them as the new standard. The new blu rays do have a digital copy, so there's an incentive for owning the hard copy.
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#163 HeadRusch

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:44 PM

lolwut. Why would people need to replace their dvds? Blu-ray players will upconvert them. Sort of like the dvd/vhs combos they still sell. There's room for both.


Uh, there wasn't room for VHS and DVD was there...? There wont be room for DVD and BD.

Well, I take that back..there will be room for both. And if there is room for both, Sony has failed.
Sony is counting on the world switching to BD as their primary format, so they can make licensing cash up the wazoo.

Now based on your statement above, if people are happy with upconverted DVD's...they wont be re-buying films on BluRay.....which means, Sony wont Makey The Sale. Fail.

digital distribution will fail terribly in the U.S. because of the snail speed internet. look at the U.S. internet speed compared to the UK or Japan or China.


Its 2008.

6 years ago the average High Speed connection was 2mbit. In 2006 it was 4mbit. Today in 2008 its somewhere between 6 and 12mbit. In another 3-5 years it will likely be somewhere in the 16-40mbit range.

Considering you can get HD delivered even over a standard copper cable connection today via CableTV, and get streamed HD to your set using that same 4mbit connection (albeit at 720p highly compressed), I wonder what having 6-12 times the bandwidth will allow...

The only thing holding back Digital Distribution is really availability of content, and changing the minds of people who want to "own shit". In an economic recession, people realize that buying BD's or even DVD's is stupid....just rent it for 4 bucks. Unless you're buying some film that your kids are going to wear out in 6 months cuz they watch it every 3 days...why do you need the disc? I like having discs, but if I knew that I could, say, watch Forbidden Planet or Battlestar Galactica reruns at the drop of a hat by going online? Why would I buy a disc for $20 if the rentals were $2 bucks a viewing?

Not to mention if you're HDD dies, everything you own is gone.


Who says you're keeping them digitally....who said its a hard drive...maybe its solid state, or some other temporary storage format.....Digital Distribution could mean sending it to a hard drive device or it could simply mean sending it to a flash-drive based system that will get over-written the next time you download something......

The longer it takes for BD to ramp up, the less chance it has to succeed overall. The economy is going to hurt it badly....when rentals are an option over buying.

#164 HeadRusch

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:49 PM

Blu Ray may become the standard one day, but its going to take time and more BIG movies like Batman The Dark Knight. 25% of Batman TDK sales were on blu Ray (600,000) when the movie costs around 24.99 - 29.99, I figure once Blu Ray can come down in price, then the market may accept them as the new standard. The new blu rays do have a digital copy, so there's an incentive for owning the hard copy.


Thing is, Batman TDK is like the biggest film in many years....how often does a movie like this come out, once a year maybe? More like once every 3 or 4 years does a movie hit this big. LOTR...The Matrix...stand out films, not IRobot or IAmLegend (sorry Will)..these are good films, but not ones that necessarily move 500,000 copies in sales to end users (and not selling 10,000 copies to NetFlix to rent out).

I agree, if BD comes down in price then more people will buy in...because in this country we want to own stuff. We buy big cars and big houses to hold lots of shit that we accumulate....but thanks to our economy that may shift. In the 70's we went small....smaller cars, we went from houses to condos, we downsized.....that could very easily happen again.

#165 HowStern

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:54 PM

People can and do rent blu-ray though. And I bet after the digital switch in feb, as older tv's start failing, a lot more people will be buying HDTV's and in turn buying blu-ray.

http://www.itwire.co...iew/13184/1066/

That's from a year ago but nothing has changed really. Average american connection speed is 1.9 megabits a second. Japan = 61 megabits per second. The article states massachusetts as one of the fastest 5 states for ISPs and I can tell you if Mass is one of the fastest, it's dissapointing, because it takes me about 3 hours at least to get a HD movie off the PSN video store.

And even then it's not as good quality as blu-ray because it has been compressed like all digital streaming HD has.

#166 HeadRusch

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:12 PM

Renting doesn't make a format succeed....Sony needs people building libraries to make a fortune on bluray. Everyone made money when people amassed DVD libraries, but the chances of that happening again so soon are unlikely, especially when you consider the jump from VHS to DVD was very significant, but the jump from DVD to BD, while significant on paper, isn't as significant in the real world, when the average HD set is still 40" or smaller.

There is a national bump in broadband happening now...it took a long time to go from 2-8mbps, which is where most cable systems are at now. Its going to take a VERy short time to double those speeds, with the DOCSIS 3.0 rollout happening nationwide on comcast, and with Verizon and UVERSE expanding, with other cable operators going faster as well......its a matter of time. We may not smoke like Japan or S.Korea, but we'll be fast enough to handle digital distro.

That is, assuming the caps dont get any lower...that also plays against DD right now.

As for quality, most people can't see a difference between BD and DVD unless you freeze frame, zoom and point....you're gonna tell me that people are going to notice quality issues or compression artifacts in a Cable HD feed compared to a $30 disc? :D Cmon man.......

#167 Paco

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:35 PM

Renting doesn't make a format succeed....Sony needs people building libraries to make a fortune on bluray. Everyone made money when people amassed DVD libraries, but the chances of that happening again so soon are unlikely, especially when you consider the jump from VHS to DVD was very significant, but the jump from DVD to BD, while significant on paper, isn't as significant in the real world, when the average HD set is still 40" or smaller.

There is a national bump in broadband happening now...it took a long time to go from 2-8mbps, which is where most cable systems are at now. Its going to take a VERy short time to double those speeds, with the DOCSIS 3.0 rollout happening nationwide on comcast, and with Verizon and UVERSE expanding, with other cable operators going faster as well......its a matter of time. We may not smoke like Japan or S.Korea, but we'll be fast enough to handle digital distro.

That is, assuming the caps dont get any lower...that also plays against DD right now.

As for quality, most people can't see a difference between BD and DVD unless you freeze frame, zoom and point....you're gonna tell me that people are going to notice quality issues or compression artifacts in a Cable HD feed compared to a $30 disc? :D Cmon man.......


I can tell the difference easily even on my 32 inch lcd tv. I have to take my glasses off on dvds to make them look even somewhat comparable on lcd. I have a huge dvd collection, but that isn't going to stop me from picking up blurays of the movies that I really love or when getting new movies.
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#168 HeadRusch

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:48 PM

Of course you can, because you're young and tuned into this stuff.......like we ALL ARE here. But most folks aren't or don't even care. A bunch of friends and coworkers have finally gone to HD sets....but none of them are buying BD's. one is renting, and the rest watch DVD's or they just watch HD over cable.

This isn't the huge cultural revolution in movie watching that DIGITALBITS would have us believe it is...trust me. Mom and pop don't care, and mom and pop don't scruitinize releases the way people like us do, and thats a problem for "mad success" to happen.

#169 oasisboy

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:57 PM

Wow, I didn't know this thread was going to explode with the article I posted. Here are my thoughts.

The PS3 has been a failure in the fact that Sony was #1 in the videogame market and they should have remained in that spot but I guess the price more than anything else hurt the PS3. Sony went from #1 to #3 in sales (behind Nintendo and Microsoft in that respective order).

The wii is this "cool" console that non-gamers are buying because anyone can play their games by moving your arms and body :roll:. Bravo to Nintendo :applause: for creating this image of "coolness" with their last-gen console with a motion sensor controller (ign.com stated that the wii is as powerful as the xbox 1). I think the Wii is the winner of this generation but it will suffer once the next generation of consoles come out. These non-gamers (my estimate is 40 - 50% of wii buyers are non-gamers) that buy the wii are the ones that also buy wii FIT. For these non-gamers, the console goes to the closet after a 3-6 months because reality hits of the limitations of the console (no blu-ray nor DVD functionality) and they go back to their normal non-gaming routines for entertainment. These people will learn from their experience and they will not buy the next console from Nintendo because they just bought the wii to be "cool" and to "exercise while playing" and it was only cool for a couple of months. If someone bought Wii Fit on launch day and they still play it, they are probably like 10% of the wii fit buyers... seriously.

Going back to the PS3. I noticed that most buyers of PS3 consoles buy it with the excuse: "It is a blu-ray player that also can be used for games". Just go to a best-buy and look at who is buying PS3 consoles. It is adults in their late 20s, mid 30s that are very casual gamers in the middle or upper income level. These people maybe played videogames in college and now they want a good blu ray player so they buy the PS3 because they can also play a game every now and then. Three of my neighbors bought a ps3 to play blu-ray movies but they buy kiddie games for their little ones or they might buy a cheap $20 - $30 game for themselves like Virtua Fighter or Motorstorm just to play once in a while.

The xbox 360 console is bought by consumers that just want to play games. When is the last time someone said: I am buying a 360 to watch movies? never.

Overall, these are my thoughts, wii are for non-gamers, PS3 is for blu-ray watchers and the 360 is the console for gamers.
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#170 blackjaw

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:59 PM

When is the last time someone said: I am buying a 360 to watch movies? never.


Seriously? About 5-6 times (or more) in this thread alone, not to mention dozens of times in these forums. Streaming netflix is now one of the consoles selling bullet points.

#171 oasisboy

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:02 PM

Seriously? About 5-6 times (or more) in this thread alone, not to mention dozens of times in these forums. Streaming netflix is now one of the consoles selling bullet points.


My point was before the Netflix integration occurred. I still don't see Netflix being this huge thing for the XBOX. There overall population of this country is not very tech-savvy where they will buy a console just because they can watch netflix movies on it. If they want to rent a movie they will just go to Blockbuster.
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#172 farfus

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:07 PM

Finally got onto LIVE last night, and i can see it has a little bit of everything for us, the consumer. Having held off of next-gen consoles for over three years till now i can say i think everything i need is on the Xbox, although until recently i was pretty much a Sony only person. But from what i see all my immediate needs are covered by microsoft...

#173 M-PG71C

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:25 PM

Never underestimate the power of the casual market. Do you guys really believe that Apple's iPod was successful because the audiophiles of the world carried the platform? There are much better music players out there, but the casual prefer iPod products for too many reasons and elements out there. Nintendo emulated Apple's strategy and man did it work for them.

I think next-generation, as long as Nintendo doesn't do anything too stupid, they'll carry the market again in a big way. Especially if Microsoft and Sony continue to stumble and fall all over themselves in attempting to cater to this market. I only have to look at the DS to see where the Wii is going and I only need to look at sales to get an idea of where the long term market is headed as well.

It always seems like that even at their best, everyone is waiting for the day where "nintendo is doomed for blah blah XX reason".

Not to rant on too much though, this is about Sony afterall. I'm not so sure if Sony saw this coming, no-one expected the economy to go into the shitter and drag the middle class for a bloody beatdown but it did happen. But man, it had to happen at a time where Sony relied on their video games to bring in the bottomline.....

I don't think the PS3 is a sinking ship but I wouldn't compare it to the GameCube. Unlike Nintendo's platform, Sony has yet to see a dime made on the system software or hardware. If anything, they are bleeding money left and right.

Hopefully, this will teach MS and Sony a proper lesson. If you have to lose so much money on hardware to the point where it can leave your company vulnerable in questionable times, it is probably a pretty shitty strategy.
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#174 Nephlabobo

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:36 PM

God of War 3 has had a 2009 assumed release date since E3. It was reconfirmed to have a 2009 release date at the VGA. Some say Q4, some say Q1. So somewhere between Q1 and Q4 -_-

Heavy rain also has a 2009 release date scheduled, but it's place in 2009 is uncertain... so they put it at the latest date.


Okay - to be fair, I didn't realise they were both 2009. And I am looking forward to both. So that brings the total of exclusive games for PS3 I'm interested in up to 3, instead of 1.

just look at the implied language so many have made that the 360 is this gen's leader, when it's not even close. .


The 360 is the leader in terms of having exclusive games that I'd like to play. Whether it's the leader in sales is irrelevent (to me).

As a Sony fanboy and a PS3 owner, I can confidently say the PS3 is a disappointment. HD/Blu-ray etc. are irrelevent. Games are what matter and the PS3 is lacking them.

#175 thrustbucket

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:48 PM

[quote name='HeadRusch']Sonys only hope for making the BD the standard is if DVD goes away. The chances of that happening in the next 3-5 years are..............remote would be an understatement of the highest order.[/quote]
Exactly. DVD will never be "replaced" for the same reasons CD's weren't/won't be.

[quote]But see, it can't just stop there....Sony then needs for everyone who has built up a DVD library to now begin to convert that DVD library to BluRay. What are the odds that that will happen? Essentially zero when you are talking about mom and pops.[/quote]
I disagree with that. Most people are happy just buying only new movies in the new format.

The problem is, less and less people build DVD libraries these days. The biggest buyers of movies now are parents buying kid movies to babysit their brats, and kids don't care about HD.

[quote]Plus now with Netflix and Blockbuster firmly established in the US zeitgeist, renting is a MUCh more plausable option than re-buying, which dooms Sonys format.[/quote]
It doesn't doom the format. Sony makes a lot of money off selling stuff to Blockbuster and Netflix etc.

[quote]Sky high pricing doesn't help...most people wont buy a DVD until it hits $9.99 or less. You think these folks are going to pony up $23 to $35 bucks for a BD? Shinizzit no they wont.[/quote]
You are right. However Blu Ray titles will continue to drop into that range. They have to, if studios/Sony want them to pick up steam.

[quote]So, Sony has one huge uphill battle. They'll eventually reach the top since its likely no new competing formats will take the place of blu ray discs, but a long, gradual climb will cripple the companies hopes because it gives time for that dreaded word...Digital Distribution...to perfect itself and change the worlds thinking on "building up an army of skinny plastic discs".[/QUOTE]

Digital distribution has already changed my habits. I was renting 1 bluray/dvd a night with my blockbuster pass until Netflix on NXE came out. Sure, it's not as high quality to the eye of scrutiny but it's a hell of a lot cheaper and more convenient.

[quote name='HowStern']
digital distribution will fail terribly in the U.S. because of the snail speed internet. look at the U.S. internet speed compared to the UK or Japan or China.[/quote]
Wrong. Not only is it not failing, it's already picking up momentum. Fiber lines are everywhere now and very soon it's just a matter of replacing routers and flipping switches to make most peoples broadband 10-20x faster.

[quote]Not to mention if you're HDD dies, everything you own is gone.[/QUOTE]
Just like if your Ipod dies or Xbox 360 HDD dies, everything you own is gone?

You do know how DRM works, right? You buy the right to the media, not a one time download.

[quote name='Thomas96']Blu Ray may become the standard one day, but its going to take time and more BIG movies like Batman The Dark Knight. 25% of Batman TDK sales were on blu Ray (600,000) when the movie costs around 24.99 - 29.99, I figure once Blu Ray can come down in price, then the market may accept them as the new standard. The new blu rays do have a digital copy, so there's an incentive for owning the hard copy.[/QUOTE]

The larger masses will never adopt Blu-Ray until the words "Blu-Ray" is simply listed as another feature on the box of the $75 DVD player they just got at Wal Mart, right along with features like "DivX", "MP3", and "Progressive Scan".

[quote name='HeadRusch']Uh, there wasn't room for VHS and DVD was there...? There wont be room for DVD and BD.[/quote]

One word: Laserdisc

[quote]The only thing holding back Digital Distribution is really availability of content, and changing the minds of people who want to "own shit". In an economic recession, people realize that buying BD's or even DVD's is stupid....just rent it for 4 bucks. Unless you're buying some film that your kids are going to wear out in 6 months cuz they watch it every 3 days...why do you need the disc? I like having discs, but if I knew that I could, say, watch Forbidden Planet or Battlestar Galactica reruns at the drop of a hat by going online? Why would I buy a disc for $20 if the rentals were $2 bucks a viewing?[/quote]

You bring up some great points. The people savvy enough to know what Blu-Ray is and what it's advantages are, are also the same people already bittorenting most of what they watch.

The leap to true digital distribution that's easy, cheap, fast, and convenient, is very small. And when it happens, there will be little reason for those savvy folks to buy Blu-Ray discs.

Now, to bring this all back to the OP, trojan horse convergent devices are the last piece of the digital distribution equation. Who is doing what to be ready for this?

[quote]The longer it takes for BD to ramp up, the less chance it has to succeed overall. The economy is going to hurt it badly....when rentals are an option over buying.[/QUOTE]

Not only that, but if Blu Ray can't supplant at least half of DVD sales by end of next year, I wager it's destined to be the next Laserdisc.

#176 HeadRusch

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:58 PM

I was saying about 4 years ago that BD and HDDVD will never be more than "Laserdisc" was in the 80's and into the 90's...that thing that afficianados own, but you dont know anyone personally like that, its always the friend of a friend :)

Its the timing of the thing...DVD *just* hit. Oh sure I had a DVD player in 99, along with 1/2 the people on AVS....but it wasn't until 2002 or 2003 when the $150 players hit *AND* movies stopped being released on VHS that blockbuster and stuff began to phase out their VHS collections. So you can get a BD player for $150 bucks, but if you can't convince people its a MUCH better experience than the DVDs they already own, they aren't going to bite.

Low priced media, low priced players will help in this cause of course.......but with DVD striding along side by side its a long slow climb for BD, and I think Sony really needs to make it more of a meteoric rush to the top.

In a sense, thats what has sorta doomed our economy...everyones in it for the quick buck, the instant gratification. bad stock market news, the lemmings go running. Good news? The lemmings go shopping...up..down..up..down. People don't seem to have the concept of the long-haul anymore, they aren't willing to wait 30 years to amass wealth, they want it NOOOWWWW.

Sony wont be getting a BD revolution NOOOWWWW.....so I wonder if they are positioned to deal with that not happening, in the same way they didn't seem to be well positioned to launch the PS4 in a market where they actually had competition.

#177 Thomas96

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:19 PM

The bottom line is that Sony has to improve their sales, they know it, we know it, everyone knows it. Sony has done alot of meet some of the features that their console and online services were lacking. Sony has increased their number of sales, from last years sales, so that's a good sign. No matter what happens in terms of Sales numbers, you know Sony put themselves at a disadvantage, so their going to have to ride this storm out, and do the best they can with the PS3. I would suspect that when PS4 comes out they won't make the same mistakes.
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#178 zewone

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:23 PM

Sony has increased their number of sales, from last years sales, so that's a good sign


No, they haven't.

Nov. 2007 / Nov 2008 = Differential
Playstation 3: 466K / 378K = -88K
Playstation 2: 496K / 206K = -290K
PSP: 567K / 421K = -146K

#179 svt1029

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:49 PM

all i have to say is that everyone has high hopes for killzone 2, but as i remember, back when i play killzone 1 on ps2, it was a very average mediocre game that brought nothing new to the table whatsoever so why expect anything different from this.... the screen shots look decent but nothing phenomenol..... i hear as much hype for this game as i did for lair... all i can think in the back of my head is epic fail for killzone .... ill be shocked if it gets more the an 8 from any review site
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#180 oasisboy

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:56 PM

Hopefully, this will teach MS and Sony a proper lesson. If you have to lose so much money on hardware to the point where it can leave your company vulnerable in questionable times, it is probably a pretty shitty strategy.


Hold on sir, the 360 just recently became profitable.

"Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices Division (EDD) – responsible for everything from the Xbox 360 to the Zune – has once again posted a net quarterly profit. What's behind the good news? "Xbox platform and PC game revenue increased $418 million or 85% primarily as a result of increased Xbox 360 console sales, Xbox 360 video game sales, and Xbox Live revenue."

http://www.joystiq.c...a-profit-again/

I think Microsoft is finally in good shape after the RROD debacle. I am glad Microsoft and Sony are pushing the limit of their consoles (unlike Nintendo with their last generation machine). Sony and Microsoft might take a loss with their consoles, but you and I as consumers win with their great consoles. Meanwhile, Nintendo's Wii which makes $50 profit per console seems to not move forward (No HD, online blows compared to Live or even the PSN store, no DVD functionality...). I rather have a company bleed $$$ out of their ass, than to have a machine that makes money but doesn't take gaming to the next level.
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