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CAGcast #147: The Airing of the Grievances


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#31 konatachan

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 12:25 PM

This is what I love about the CAGcast, not even 4 minutes into the show and the words butthole already come up :D
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#32 blazsox

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 12:30 PM

The problem I have with the GTA expansion is that its only available to those who own the 360 version. Now I do understand Microsoft paid for this exclusive content, but I don't own a reliable 360. When I bought GTA IV, I bought for PS3 because I was having problems with my 360. I wasn't about to pay $60 for a game that I knew I was going to play for awhile on a system that has failed on me three times. And plus I grew up playing GTA on PlayStation so the controls were not new to me.

As stated though in the CAGcast Take-Two is in financial trouble, and have been far before this whole "economic crisis." More people own the 360 version than PS3 version, but they could maximize profit by offering this content to their entire audience instead of a selected part of the audience. PC owners, though a solid majority of them have complained of issues, were waiting to buy this game for open mod support. They are being excluded this content as well, and they had to wait an extra few months.

This is more of a rant against exclusive DLC rather than just GTA IV. Fallout 3 has exclusive content to the 360, as well as Tomb Raider. Now maybe its Sony at fault for not pursuing exclusive content, but I personally feel these publishers are neglecting their customer base. As hard as it is to realize to some, there are people out there who only own the PS3 and can't afford a 360 because they spent so much on the PS3. By releasing content exclusive to a certain platform, you are neglecting possible sales on the other.

I want to buy the GTA IV expansions, but I am not about to shell out $100 for MS to fix my 360, or another $200 to buy a new unit, then shell out $60 for the game just to play it.
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#33 InvaderZim

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 12:40 PM

PS3 marketing is awesome... I overheard Nintendo and Microsoft suits discussing it.


#34 striker199

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 12:49 PM

Why so slow in LA?
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#35 CheapyD

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 01:21 PM

I hate to agree with Wombat so early in the new year but he is right, Howard Stern is not relevant anymore. You need mass exposure to be relevant and influential. Stern had the option to retire or $500million reasons to move to sirius. I was a fan of the Stern show for a long time and the last couple of years on terrestrial radio were pretty bad except for the infusion of some new blood Artie. In his final year the show turned into an infomercial for Sirius, and all he did was complain how he can't do his show untill he moves to satellite. Im not saying HS isn't funny or that he isn't relevant to you, but even though Jay Leno sucks wombat balls he still is more relevant to the masses than Howard. Congrats to Speed1969 for the death of his nemisis CC, you won buddy.


Yeah, but think of all the people that he got to spend $13 a month to come listen to him. Think of how loyal those people are. How many entertainers could do that? Do you think anyone would follow Jay Leno to a pay service?

#36 AriesDog

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 01:29 PM

Regarding Wombat calling the sale on 12 month cards a pre-emptive strike on PS3's potential price drop:

I think you and Wombat are seeing master plans when it's something really simple. A lot of new customers bought 360's in December. It comes with one month free on Xbox LIVE Gold. So surprise! In January Microsoft does a lot of deals with retailers to offer the 1 year subscription at cheap prices to lock them in for a year and get them really addicted to the service. Think like a pusher!

#37 ShinAkumA21

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:21 PM

Wombat, i'm going to be at Comic Con same day as you! You better sign my Man Boobs lol

#38 aerotive

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:25 PM

Regarding Wombat's surprise at the continued strong sales of the DS, keep in mind that there's a constantly renewing market for that system: kids. I've bought a couple of them as gifts for the children of relatives, and I'm sure many other people have as well.

#39 thorbahn3

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:25 PM

I shit you not when I say I don't know who you are referring to.


I don't remember them all, but Wombat mentioned CJ once, you mentioned Ron Workmen, etc. It just seems like the show takes a break for a few seconds so you can plug something for a friend.
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#40 Wombat

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:34 PM

I don't remember them all, but Wombat mentioned CJ once, you mentioned Ron Workmen, etc. It just seems like the show takes a break for a few seconds so you can plug something for a friend.


How dare we supprt others in the community, what hell is our problem. Thats it no more giving back, Thorbahn said so.

#41 lordkaosu

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:49 PM

The signatures at GTZ have been removed by the user. Granted, they weren't in good taste but most people don't hate CAG as Alphakira would like to have CAG believe. Alphakira seems more interested in trying to instigate conflict between users. Sometimes the humor at GTZ may be in bad taste or seem hateful but many users are at both sites and enjoy the communities equally.
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#42 Scavenger4

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:51 PM

Yeah, but think of all the people that he got to spend $13 a month to come listen to him. Think of how loyal those people are. How many entertainers could do that? Do you think anyone would follow Jay Leno to a pay service?


Is the comparison seriously shock jock vs stand up comedian? And since when does having a loyal fan base represent relevance? New Kids on the Block still has a fan base but I would hardly consider them relevant to the music industry...

#43 Sacsquash

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 03:22 PM

Congrats to Speed1969 for the death of his nemisis CC, you won buddy.


Didn't realize someone could be so inconsiderate over so many job losses, especially in an economy such as ours. I don't know why anyone would want a company like Circuit City to go out of business it just doesn't do anyone any good. Best Buy practicly has a monopoly on the niche of big box electronics stores now, in fact I would go as far as to say that they do. Their only competition is some Fry's stores, some mom and pop shops, and internet shopping. So yeah let's all give a big hooray, we don't have to worry about Circuit City anymore (the company which almost always undercut Best Buy in pricing and actually had clearance titiles).

#44 XTommyDonX

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 03:36 PM

Too many game writers consider themselves journalists when thy really aren't. They are either simply reviewers, writers or editors. Nothing wrong with that, but real journalists will go to the source of the story and try to extract more information from it. They don't just repost the same news item that's found on every single game website out there. They will contact game companies, try to find out more information, etc.

Once again, it's not a bad thing to just be a reviewer, but real journalists don't just wait for something to be announced by a company and then rephrase the story. They put their full effort in order to get more information revealed.
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#45 billmarrs

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 03:59 PM

CheapyD,

I'm Bill Marrs, owner of GameTZ. Sorry for not making much effort to introduce myself before given that we run sites with some overlap. I know there are a lot of people use who use both CAG and GameTZ.

And, sorry for the trouble over this. I actually hadn't seen the signature in question before this morning (after someone posted about your podcast). I turn sigs off on my site because I find them annoying, and no one had mentioned it to me or our mods.

I have now removed all the images from the posts where it had been used and removed that guy's avatar which also had your cartoon face with x's over the eyes. If we find more cases, I'll remove those as well. Feel free to contact me directly in the future if you have a problem with something on GameTZ.

The guy who did it (monkbonk) was joking, I'm sure of that. Frankly, his sense of humor is a bit beyond me and it's not the first time I didn't really get a joke he made. But, he's not a bad guy. unfortunately, that Forbes article touched off some bashing between Goozex, GameTZ and CAG. I think monkbonk was actually trying to make a joke out of all that by with that ridiculous image. But, out of context, I'm sure it must have seemed pretty ugly and uncalled-for.

Cheap Ass Gamer is a great site that is very useful to a lot of gamers and game traders. Your success speaks for itself. The great majority of GameTZ users, myself included, think very highly of CAG and of you for all you've done and continue to do here. I hope this sort of thing, perpetuated by a one or two individuals doesn't sour relations between our communities.

#46 ZombieJeebus

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:07 PM

Wombat, your idea for peddling good reviews to publishers for ad dollars steps on the toes of journalistic integrity.

As TommyDon mentioned above, most "game journalists" really aren't...but most reviewers would still see your idea as a violation of ethics. Funny they are ok with the wine and dine treatment they got when reviewing GTA4 and MGS4 but that's another story.

Maybe separation of marketing and journalism is a dead model of business. But would you read or trust a newpaper or website that always contacted their subject to pry ad dollars out of them prior to publishing?

#47 Gregalor

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:30 PM

I don't think it's as much a matter of hard drive space when it comes to the industry going all-digital, but rather bandwidth. With half of the U.S. still being on dial-up, they'd be killing their business. A lot of hardcore gamers are the people who live in the middle of nowhere with nothing better to do, and they may not have access to broadband. And even for people with our sorry excuse for broadband, it would be annoying.

#48 rogueweapon

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:38 PM

Yeah, but think of all the people that he got to spend $13 a month to come listen to him. Think of how loyal those people are. How many entertainers could do that? Do you think anyone would follow Jay Leno to a pay service?


I wouldn't follow Jay Leno to a free all you can eat buffet but I'm sure there are a lot of Jay Leno fans that would pay $13/month to listen to his stale jokes. He blows but he is popular. I will agree with you on Cash Back, those were some good titties and the movie wasn't terrible either. Ice pirates is goodbad just like Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon. Why did you make the robot black?
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#49 Colgol

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:19 PM

BTW Cheapy! Do check out Burn Notice! Bruce Campbell is the king of cheesy comedy and the series is awsome:-)

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#50 mykevermin

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:28 PM

The title of this episode should of been called "Wombat knows his shit when it comes to marketing" because the whole time he hit the nail on the head.

Also, enough with these name drops. You must of name dropped that you knew so and so about 10 times this episode.


Yep. The "PS3 needs games" tripe from CheapyD is not even worth addressing. It's hard to take you seriously when you imply this. It's even harder when you, 40 minutes earlier, contradict this when you discuss the theory of XBL cards dropping in price as a strategic move to sway gamers to the 360 to play their multiplatform online games.

Look, like the system you like, but don't be a fuckin' idiot about it. Allow me to demonstrate:

The Xbox 360 has no games. In order to succeed in this market, it needs games.

Think about how absurd that statement is. Perhaps you'll understand the point. I'm not going to hold my breath over it.

And Wombat is dead on the money when it comes to Sony marketing. It almost seems intentionally done to harm themselves financially. All the way from the 'crying baby in the white room' stuff during the PS3's launch to the "moving pictures on hispter t-shirts in an urban setting" ads of today (lest we forget the "I tell my dumb girlfriend it's a movie machine because only dudes game and women watch oxygen and romantic comedies" ad as of late). Heck, it's been bad going back as far as the "URNOT(red)E" stuff.

Their marketing staff doesn't deserve to be fired. They deserve to be executed. It's that bad. Like Willy Wonka hiring Slugworth to market his products bad.

And they need to expand their PSOne game selection. They have a potential competitor to the Virtual Console, and one that's reasonably priced. But they've sat on it so long that we have nary 26 titles after over 2 years time. PSOne classics help sell PS3s, and give us reasons to keep our PSPs. When they come out, that is.

Yeah, but think of all the people that he got to spend $13 a month to come listen to him. Think of how loyal those people are. How many entertainers could do that? Do you think anyone would follow Jay Leno to a pay service?


If said pay service came with a baseball bat and three free shots at Leno, I'd give 'em $26 a month for two subscriptions.

And Bill Marrs, good on ya. I don't know much about your site (other than that it's a Game Trading Zone, ha-ha). But I have much more respect for it now. Huzzah.
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#51 sotc1988

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:43 PM

CheapyD,

I'm Bill Marrs, owner of GameTZ. Sorry for not making much effort to introduce myself before given that we run sites with some overlap. I know there are a lot of people use who use both CAG and GameTZ.

And, sorry for the trouble over this. I actually hadn't seen the signature in question before this morning (after someone posted about your podcast). I turn sigs off on my site because I find them annoying, and no one had mentioned it to me or our mods.

I have now removed all the images from the posts where it had been used and removed that guy's avatar which also had your cartoon face with x's over the eyes. If we find more cases, I'll remove those as well. Feel free to contact me directly in the future if you have a problem with something on GameTZ.

The guy who did it (monkbonk) was joking, I'm sure of that. Frankly, his sense of humor is a bit beyond me and it's not the first time I didn't really get a joke he made. But, he's not a bad guy. unfortunately, that Forbes article touched off some bashing between Goozex, GameTZ and CAG. I think monkbonk was actually trying to make a joke out of all that by with that ridiculous image. But, out of context, I'm sure it must have seemed pretty ugly and uncalled-for.

Cheap Ass Gamer is a great site that is very useful to a lot of gamers and game traders. Your success speaks for itself. The great majority of GameTZ users, myself included, think very highly of CAG and of you for all you've done and continue to do here. I hope this sort of thing, perpetuated by a one or two individuals doesn't sour relations between our communities.

BILLY MAYS HERE TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE CLEANING POWER OF KABOOM!
That was the first thing I got from this, with the intro and all. Great show, the chemistry you guys lacked from last week was back and the length was perfect. It's been a really long time since you guys did a two hour show and it was AWESOME. Wombat really knew his shit and mispoke a time or two but you were on the money almost the entire time especially about sony. Good job both of you. (I didn't feel you were being hard on the ps3 cheapy, and as an owner the discussion didn't bother me at all but you know, different strokes for different folks).

#52 AwRy108

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:45 PM

CheapyD and Wombat,

In regards to your discussion about digital distribution overtaking disc-based media, you're forgetting one MAJOR setback that could quickly end the argument for the foreseeable future: bandwidth caps.

Many ISP's have already begun imposing (...and enforcing) restrictions on the amount of bandwidth allowed per household per month; and the largest ISP of them all, COMCAST, has been trying to push forward with this for at least a year now. Also, there's a large number of people--my parents, for example--who live in "the boonies" and can only get "high-speed Internet" via a data plan with a cell phone company; and these plans have monthly maximum data usage levels a low as 6 GB's per month!

Any / all of these types of bandwidth restrictions make the idea of downloading or--to a certain extent--streaming movies basically irrelevant, let alone something like a PS3 game that weighs in at around 35 GB's or a 360 game that takes up 3 DVD's worth of data.

While I'm sure that there's ways around some of these restrictions, I think it will be a long time before we see the mass market adopt a digital distribution strategy, especially if their ISP's are fighting them the entire way.

Oh, and not to mention: the United States supports the largest economy in the world, yet our Internet speeds are significantly slower than much of the civilized world; and there's no way that people--myself included--are patient enough to wait for an entire 2-hour, 1080p movie to download.

Remember, the strength of consumerism is based on the ability to purchase something almost immediately to get that "purchase high" we all thrive on, then move on to the next expenditure (hence, why every CAG has a back-log of games)--if people have to wait for 12 hours before they can enjoy a 1080p video, then the whole idea of digital distribution fails.

In conclusion, while we've seen services like XBLA and PSN take off like rocket ships, I truly feel that 99% of the big-budget games are a long ways off from be distributed digitally. Case in point: many people refused to purchase the latest Siren game over PSN, but lots of people--again, myself included--have been ordering the Asian version from PlayAsia.com.

By the way, keep up the great show, guys: now that 1up Yours is gone, the CAGcast is the only podcast I really get excited to listen to every week (yes, even the Joystiq Podcast has started to grow a bit stale). Thanks for all your hard work!

#53 XTommyDonX

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:01 PM

Hey Wombat,

Being the Grateful Dead fan that you are, maybe the Grateful Dead Pack 02 that was leaked from IGN as upcoming DLC will get you back into Rock Band. The article has been removed since yesterday but the songs were as follows:

Cold Rain and Snow
Doin' That Rag
Don't Ease Me In
Fire on the Mountain
Hell in a Bucket
Uncle John's Band

I'm not buying the whole pack like last time as the songs aren't as awesome. A few singles will do. However, they're still great. Which ones would you pick up?
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#54 MSUHitman

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:13 PM

Cheapy and Wombat,
If other users want a lengthy podcast, send them to my audio podcast, Checkmate Arcade, available on ITunes and Zune.

All of our episodes are at least 2 hours long. In fact, our New Year's Resolution was to keep the episodes very close to 2 hours only as last year many of our episodes were near 3 hours in length.

Listen to the Checkmate Arcade video game podcast! Also available on ITunes, Stitcher Radio, or YouTube.
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#55 Empirestrikeszac

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:16 PM

I totally agree with Wombat. Fallout 3 is an AMAZING game, but the main story sure snuck up on me and ended fast. I'm notorious for not finishing games , but I put 22 hours into this game in one week. I look forward to the DLC and hope that they do a bunch of them because i'd like to have more impetus to level my character all the way up. Although there is a ton of side stuff to do, I'm not sure how excited I am to just go back and play just to do the side stuff since there is no real end game anymore. I have been a member for a long time, but just got into the podcast a few months ago. You guys do a good job and my Xbox 360 owes Cheapy D a debt of gratitude :)
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#56 John

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:23 PM

Many ISP's have already begun imposing (...and enforcing) restrictions on the amount of bandwidth allowed per household per month; and the largest ISP of them all, COMCAST, has been trying to push forward with this for at least a year now. Also, there's a large number of people--my parents, for example--who live in "the boonies" and can only get "high-speed Internet" via a data plan with a cell phone company; and these plans have monthly maximum data usage levels a low as 6 GB's per month!

Any / all of these types of bandwidth restrictions make the idea of downloading or--to a certain extent--streaming movies basically irrelevant, let alone something like a PS3 game that weighs in at around 35 GB's or a 360 game that takes up 3 DVD's worth of data.


Good point. Over here in the UK broadband connections advertised as "unlimited" are often capped at 50GB, at which point you're reduced to a 512K connection until the end of the month - I wouldn't get far on my lousy ADSL connection. (And of course there are a lot of markets out there where broadband availability is much, much worse.) I can imagine the next step being 100% availability through downloadable means, alongside a traditional disc based format - essentially what's already happening with PC gaming. While the convienience of downloading games is nice to have, I've got a feeling it'll be a long time until the demand for a physical copy subsides. (Not to mention the hit game companies would take from not having the support of B&M retailers.)

The other perk with a system like this would be the reduction of 0-day piracy - make your games downloadable a week or two before they're released on disc and you've got yourself a great way of rewarding legitimate customers, while making it difficult for people to get hold of disc based copies to pirate. Maybe even let retailers sell download codes as pre-order bonuses - buy the game now, download it and play it straight away, come back in a week to pick up your physical copy. (Or buy it download-only for less.)

Edited by John, 21 January 2009 - 07:01 PM.


#57 kube00

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:52 PM

Good point I don' think MS will ever be able to reach the sale of the psx, ps2, and ps3 sales worldwide. Could Nintendo match it, maybe?

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#58 seakae

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:59 PM

I don't care for Howard Stern, but saying he should put his show out for free is ass. Why would he do that when he can still get paid? He still has a large fanbase. Much larger than yours, Wombat, and your show IS free. Making it free online doesn't all of a sudden make it relevant. It just makes it to where sad bastards with a chip on their shoulder can turn it around and say he's desperate to be heard, even if that may not be the case.

Either he charges for his service or he gets massive amounts of advertising, which would ultimately dull the show. Just because someone is rich, doesn't mean they should cut off their income to suit cheap dicks.

#59 Wombat

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:11 PM

I don't care for Howard Stern, but saying he should put his show out for free is ass. Why would he do that when he can still get paid? He still has a large fanbase. Much larger than yours, Wombat, and your show IS free. Making it free online doesn't all of a sudden make it relevant. It just makes it to where sad bastards with a chip on their shoulder can turn it around and say he's desperate to be heard, even if that may not be the case.

Either he charges for his service or he gets massive amounts of advertising, which would ultimately dull the show. Just because someone is rich, doesn't mean they should cut off their income to suit cheap dicks.


Making it free doesnt add sudden relevence but staying on satelite keeps him irrelevent. What I was thinking was maybe doing the show on Sirius, then releasing it on his website the next day. It keeps him making money and give him the amount of listeners he used to have without worring about the FCC. Also I never said I was more relevent, I said that Jay Leno was.

#60 DarkNessBear

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:19 PM

"I liked Cashback. There's lots of titties in it. A lot of titties. British titties."

Fantastic.


Ooo I like that movie.

No reason... :roll:
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