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CAGcast #150: Shipwreck Hates PS3, Killzone 2, and You!


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#121 EBPanthers21

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:11 AM

Great show guys! I really liked it. Was hoping for a celebratory podcast, it being 150 and all. Wish me luck on getting Banjo, lol.

#122 blazsox

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:40 AM

I dont see whats the big fuss about the American demo of KZ2. It will be in the PS Store when the game hits (or at least that Thursday of that week).

"Exclusive access" to a demo is not something new to this industry.
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#123 h3llbring3r

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:43 AM

. . . . but if there's one thing we ain't starvin' for, it's FPS. They're all over the place like dirty, shoeless children at a Golden Corral.

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#124 MattZack

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:47 AM

While listening to the talk about DC Universe, I just remembered that I hate Superman - every freaking super power known and invincible except for kyrptonite, also if he dies he comes back - whatever.

#125 Z_meista

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:49 AM

Good show guys. Good thing I didn't pick up SF4 just yet.

#126 RudyPants

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 04:15 AM

CheapyD - I need an explanation.

You tend to give Wombat a hard time about his gay job, but on CAGCast 150 you were talking without shame about eating other peoples' sausages.

Should we be worried about your marital status?

I just want you to set the record straight.

#127 Gamer SDP

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 04:29 AM

another good show, though the title threw me off since I was expecting ship to go on how the ps3 sucks

wombat needs to calm down with the interrupting and annoying rhetorical questions. he occasionally makes it seem funny but I usually find him to come off as a douche. I know it's all in good taste but it gets old so please cut it down (or learn to make it funny more often)

cheapy, as always has not failed to make me laugh. the way he just goes about detailing some stupid occurrence in his carefree life never gets boring.

shipwreck is always great. though he needs to speak up and be more enthusiastically engaged with the conversation (though wombat interrupts him and throws in some cheap shots). ship brings a kind of unique calming charm to the show which neither wombat nor cheapy can offer.

oh and I wouldn't mind a sealed copy of Banjo-Kazooie:Nuts 'N Bolts...I wasn't trying to get a wombat (just some constructive criticism). but anyway wombat rules

#128 CheapyD

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 04:33 AM

So who has done the Mario/Wombat fart mashup? I'm waiting... xP



#129 x3x1x

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:02 AM

You're hating on Mighty Muggs?!?!?!

Straight from the box - "made from 100% recycled awesome"

#130 cdrober

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:03 AM

This show is great, I really like the 3-way action w/ Shipwreck. Ship should be in every episode or at least a regular guest, I am really enjoying these episodes! Thanks for another one and I can't wait Ship to see the pictures of your collections.

#131 Walt Jay

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:22 AM

Nice show guys! The Comic Con stories were pretty cool.
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#132 Great One

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:25 AM

Nice job on 150 podcasts! Looking forward to listening to this.

#133 Jake Tower

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:29 AM

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Indeed. :)
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#134 ShottyOwnage

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:39 AM

Woo! congrats on #150. Listening now. :)

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#135 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:39 AM

I love Killzone 2 Demo Conspiracists who are nothing but fanboys. "Sony doesn't want you to see it because it suxlolol111" or "Sony mishandled this" are some of the most ridiculous statements i've ever seen in my internet life, and i've been the administrator of a message board full of furries before.

Gamestop likely paid Sony for the exclusiveness of the demo to get more sales. Stop trying to make this some 9/11 conspiracy bullshit. If you need me too, I'll write a 10 page document on why shopping the exclusive Killzone 2 demo around was a amazing marketing decision and financial success (in short: Sony, instead of losing on a demo like ALL companies, made a profit off of it).

#136 moojuice

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:49 AM

Please do. Sure, it's a large short gain, but what about the long run? Please explain how a pay to play "demo" is a financial success.

#137 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:54 AM

First of all, it's not pay to play. It's a bonus to people who pre-ordered the game at GameStop, hence why it's available to everyone else in the outside countries without a preorder. Likely, either GameStop or Sony went up to the other and said "Hey, what can we offer for pre-order bonus?". Someone suggested a demo. Gamestop must've suggested an exclusive demo (again, you guys act like this is some new invention...Rogue Squadron 3 anyone?). This was born, giving Sony lots of money as GameStop surely would've had to pony up to get that exclusive demo. Anyone who thinks this was Sony purposely conspiraced to shoot JF- erm, I mean, not offer this demo to the users is stupid.

If you want me to go in depth on it, I will tommorow. But giving away this demo as a pre-order is no different than giving away beta access if you pre-order. The only difference is adolescents pretending to be internet crusaders.

And again, this is a exclusive time based offer, meaning that once the game comes out, the demo will be available to anyone. Fuck, I bet half of you who are bitching don't even own a PS3.

#138 h3llbring3r

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:57 AM

I love Killzone 2 Demo Conspiracists who are nothing but fanboys. "Sony doesn't want you to see it because it suxlolol111" or "Sony mishandled this" are some of the most ridiculous statements i've ever seen in my internet life, and i've been the administrator of a message board full of furries before.

Gamestop likely paid Sony for the exclusiveness of the demo to get more sales. Stop trying to make this some 9/11 conspiracy bullshit. If you need me too, I'll write a 10 page document on why shopping the exclusive Killzone 2 demo around was a amazing marketing decision and financial success (in short: Sony, instead of losing on a demo like ALL companies, made a profit off of it).


I think the consensus is not that it was a conspiracy but just a bad marketing idea. Supporters want to see this title explode.
The internet press for KZ2 has been borderline gushing, and everyone I know who has played the demo has been positive about it. Why kill the hype and potentially subdue the game launch by limiting it's access? (And do so with the game-retailer with the worst "good will" to boot! Let me preorder my full-price game so I can get it at gamestop where they open it before I get my hands on it)

It's not like the franchise is a "gang-buster" with legions of devotees warranting a marketing tie-in (like a Halo 3 demo/ Crackdown thing).

You would think they would want the weekend gamer, who doesn't read all the pre-release and web hype, and gaming site fodder to DL the demo and get hooked on the title well before the launch.

It's no conspiracy IMHO just a ham-handed move.

Aside: I wouldn't tell anyone I was a "furries" message board admin. Yikes man.

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#139 moojuice

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:01 AM

The fact that you must put $5 down makes it pay to play, just not in the literal sense.

And it still doesn't explain why the move is a brilliant marketing decision or a financial success for Sony. All it is, is "Hey, we're going to give a demo to the people who are going to buy this game anyways."

For Gamestop, of course, they have the better gain from the deal, since it pushes one of their main sources of revenue: Pre-orders.

#140 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:02 AM

Because the internet != real life. Just because a group of a thousand outspoken nerds say it's good, and another thousand say it's unfair that they dont' get it without pre-ordering doesn't mean anything outside of the internet. In the real life, this was a genious move as now Sony and Gamestop can advertise that it's exclusively available at Gamestop, and all the casual and PS3 fans who don't frequent hardcore game sites, like CAG, or GAF, will see these advertisements, and if they have any info in Killzone 2, will go down to Gamestop and drop the pre-order. This profits both Gamestop and Sony, as Gamestop now can invest on your money and Sony is getting paid from the deal with Gamestop.

The weekend gamer doesn't go on CAG. The weekend gamer doesn't go on GAF. They go to Gamestop. They find out their info their. They find out from magazines or Yahoo.Com.

#141 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:04 AM

The fact that you must put $5 down makes it pay to play, just not in the literal sense.

And it still doesn't explain why the move is a brilliant marketing decision or a financial success for Sony. All it is, is "Hey, we're going to give a demo to the people who are going to buy this game anyways."

For Gamestop, of course, they have the better gain from the deal, since it pushes one of their main sources of revenue: Pre-orders.


Brilliant marketing decision because now they are forcing people to go to Gamestop to get it, where they can peddle their items on to these same people. Look up the escalator concept in regards to marketing if you want to know more.

And Sony is making money from signing these exclusive deals that essentially cost them nothing. Since Microsoft has to pony up server space, they're taking a lost on these demos, but not Sony, as they made money off the demo.

And how does limiting it kill the hype? It does the exact opposite; it makes people want to go down to Gamestop and drop $5 for that demo. It makes the wait even more untolerable for people, and it raises hype. I don't see how people think it kills hype, unless you're one of those aforementioned conspirators who think Sony didn't want to release it because it "sucks".

#142 KingBroly

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:08 AM

Sony doesn't have their screws in tight enough in some places. This KZ2 demo business from SCEA is one of them. That's why I downloaded it from the European Store instead of paying $5 to pre-order it or using Home to ask a Helghast-clothed person for a demo code (although this idea was good since it might make people use Home as a cross-promotion).

I don't know where you got the idea Cheapy that Wombat's fart sounds like Mario jumping in SMB, because that sounds nothing like it. Also, are you using a standard 360 controller to play Street Fighter 4?
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#143 h3llbring3r

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:09 AM

Because the internet != real life. Just because a group of a thousand outspoken nerds say it's good, and another thousand say it's unfair that they dont' get it without pre-ordering doesn't mean anything outside of the internet. In the real life, this was a genious move as now Sony and Gamestop can advertise that it's exclusively available at Gamestop, and all the casual and PS3 fans who don't frequent hardcore game sites, like CAG, or GAF, will see these advertisements, and if they have any info in Killzone 2, will go down to Gamestop and drop the pre-order. This profits both Gamestop and Sony, as Gamestop now can invest on your money and Sony is getting paid from the deal with Gamestop.

The weekend gamer doesn't go on CAG. The weekend gamer doesn't go on GAF. They go to Gamestop. They find out their info their. They find out from magazines or Yahoo.Com.


1. You assume Sony is getting paid. I imagine it was more likely done more indirectly with a committed volume orders for a set of titles.

2. You seem to be greatly in the minority in your opinion.

3. It's not a question of fairness, no post I have seen claims that, it's one of logic and decision making. It's smacks of total stupidity. Unlike a beta, demo's are specifically designed and produced to garner interest in a game, so why would any company electively limit their core buyers access to them?

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#144 Treehouse Gamer

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:11 AM

Nice to hear from you again, Ship. Our calendars have been so off from eachother I was afraid that I needed an appointment to get my PC previews to you.
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#145 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:12 AM

1. Sony ARE getting paid. If you think they just freely gave Gamestop the exclusive rights to the demo for their biggest release of the year, then you're in denial. Plus, with all pre-order items, there's liscening fee's and all of that jazz.

2. It's not an opinion but whatever. It's more a marketing strategy that they adopted, a rather basic one too, the escalator concept.

3. Why are demo's confined to these rules? Why are Sony going under fire and not Nintendo and Microsoft when both have pulled these practices before? Why aren't beta's under this same thought? It's the same damn thing as a demo, a flat out lie (sorry, but no public beta is really a beta. Game companies have ruined that word).

#146 moojuice

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:15 AM

Again, short term profits. It's like winning the lottery. Sony is taking the smaller lump sum for instant gratification, rather that accepting smaller payouts over a longer period of time for more profits. Is the risk of shunning potential sales worth it for an upfront sum?

An average consumer will view a demo as just that: a demonstration of a product.

When they are walking past Gamestop, they see "Put a down payment on this game for a sneak peek of the game." When deciding between a Honda Accord or a Honda Civic, ask the average consumer to pony up %5 of the list price of a car just so they can test drive it. When deciding between a pound of ham or a pound of turkey at the deli, as for $2 to sample a slice of each. Pay $1 to see the trailer of a movie you are thinking about seeing.

#147 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:18 AM

I still don't see why you couldn't play the game 2 weeks earlier is shunning sales. Did Microsoft shun sales by putting the Halo 3 beta with Crackdown? No...they gained sales. Similar to what Sony is doing. And of course short term profits. Giving the demo out exclusively is getting them money. Once the game comes out, they still aren't going to be charging $5 for it, it'll be free. I highly doubt Sony gets that $5 also. It's without a doubt Gamestop who gets that as you're reserving a product through them, and they worked something out with Sony to give something out with that.

And your logic of people paying for the demo is ridiculous. Unlike your examples, you're paying $5 for the reservation of the game, with an added bonus thrown in; the demo. If you want to look at it as paying $5 for the demo then go ahead. I'll look at the Halo 3 Beta as costing $60.

#148 h3llbring3r

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:19 AM

1. Sony ARE getting paid. If you think they just freely gave Gamestop the exclusive rights to the demo for their biggest release of the year, then you're in denial. Plus, with all pre-order items, there's liscening fee's and all of that jazz.

2. It's not an opinion but whatever. It's more a marketing strategy that they adopted, a rather basic one too, the escalator concept.

3. Why are demo's confined to these rules? Why are Sony going under fire and not Nintendo and Microsoft when both have pulled these practices before?


I didn't say that Sony wasn't getting compensated in some way (in fact quite the opposite), I just doubt- completely that it was a straight-up cash on the barrel deal.

It's your opinion that it's a sound decision and marketing strategy, no one said it wasn't a marketing strategy ~ just that it was a poorly reasoned one (are you reading what people are posting our just purging your mind like a bad burrito into a 7/11 toilet). Exclusivity/scarcity and demo (demonstration) are near oxymoronic when combined in this manner.

As I recall MS caught a tremendous amount of flack for the closed HALO 3 beta Crackdown Tie-in.

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#149 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:23 AM

I didn't say that Sony wasn't getting compensated in some way (in fact quite the opposite), I just doubt- completely that it was a straight-up cash on the barrel deal.

It's your opinion that it's a sound decision and marketing strategy, no one said it wasn't a marketing strategy ~ just that it was a poorly reasoned one (are you reading what people are posting our just purging your mind like a bad burrito into a 7/11 toilet).

As I recall MS caught a tremendous amount of flack for the closed HALO 3 beta Crackdown Tie-in.



Did you miss the posts a page or two back when I was talking to the conspiracists who were saying it wasn't a marketing strategy? You must've, because that's who that was directed to. It was you guys who got offended when I explained what it was, and using the word "brilliant" next to "Sony" is to you guys the equivalent of using "heartwarming" next to "Hitler".

Here's the posts my descriptions where for:
http://www.cheapassg...5&postcount=119
That one he claims they weren't good marketing strategys, when in fact they where, in technical terms. Escalator concept.

http://www.cheapassg...5&postcount=120

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#150 Thomas96

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:24 AM

Reference the Killzone 2 Demo: Just because the the demo is exclusive now (pre-launch) isn't a problem. If Sony gets paid to keep the demo exclusive to Gamestop then more power to them. As long as the demo is available to everyone, (post-launch) then that's what is most important. The demo will be able to accomplish what its supposed to accomplish, as long as its available to everyone immediately on day one (post launch). Also, there's already videos of Killzone 2 on PSN as well. Consumers (or fanboys) have already judged this game, and have already decided to buy day one or not, they've decided what the review score should be.. and this is without any demo. Sony's marketing campaign is weak for this game... it needs that Final Fantasy 7 marketing campaign. That campaign got people who NEVER played an RPG to make a purchase on FF7. THe demo will still be able to generate interest for the game, whether its available pre, or post launch. As long as people don't have to wait another month to get the KZ2 demo, then there isn't a problem.
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