Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

CAGcast #150: Shipwreck Hates PS3, Killzone 2, and You!


  • Please log in to reply
343 replies to this topic

#211 bmulligan

bmulligan

    I am a free man

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:49 PM

Wow, lots of Killzone 2 flak here so I'll guess I'll add my 2 cents.

One of the main things in selling a product is to offer convenience to the customer. In fact, one of console gaming's selling points is convenience of plug-and-play compared to PC gaming. You want to make it as easy as possible to make your product known and experienced by as many people as possible, right? Since game demos are the norm in this generation, offering such exclusivity is really counter-productive if the purpose is promotion. Any "deal" with Gamestop was, in my opinion, a bad decision on Sony's part because it only alienates subsets of users who don't pre-order or go to Gamestop. This type of physical alienation isn't a good marketing decision in any circumstance.

Joining the exclusivity club can be good way to promote a game, but you have to make it convenient. Download this wallpaper, watch this video, or play the demo to join the Killzone hype club is a better way to get people to join your group, not go into Gamestop, lay down 5 dollars, go home, enter code, download demo. It's too many steps. Gamers are lazy, parents are lazy, kids are lazy.

And besides, If I'm pre-ordering a game, I want something other than a fucking demo. I'm going to be playing the damn game in 2 weeks, what the hell do I need a demo for if I'm already buying it? Give me something substantial that I can hang onto or put on my shelf, like a zelda compilation. Something with meaning is a much better driver of pre-orders than something that becomes worthless when the game comes out.

The Neo-Communist Manifesto: "In your mind freedom is an end in and of itself. In my mind freedom is a means of improving society and giving people a better life. Those ideas result in very different methods of running society. " - alonzomourning23

bmulligan.png<------GOOZEX ?    Goozex is dead.


#212 NateWhs152

NateWhs152

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:04 PM

Instead of paying attention in my astronomy class. I am listening to the CAGCAST. Thank you for giving me something to do during this bullshit class.

#213 LiK

LiK

    Internet Superstar

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:06 PM

wow, considering the small amount of KZ2 discussion in the podcast, i'm surprised at how much is being discussed here about it. i'll never understand why this game is hitting so many nerves.

and yes, demos are meant to be something for people to play before they buy. that is the whole point of demos.
63362.png
Blog | Twitter
"You lazy f*ck!" - Artie Lange to CheapyD on 8/31/09

#214 TruthinessFC

TruthinessFC

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:07 PM

I still see half of CAG is retarded. Again, the game is going to be for sale for more than day one. Why the Fuck does it matter that some people get it two weeks early as a bonus for pre-ordering? It doesn't. Anyone who wants it on day one is going to pre-order it. It's no different launching the demo the day it comes out or two weeks later except for day one sales.

NOTE TO CAG: GAMES ARE ON SALE FOR MORE THAN ONE DAY! GREAT IVORY!

Keep beating that drum CAG. While everyone who understand marketing and that games are on sale for more than a day live in the real world, you all can live in la-la land.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a resonable explanation as to why it matters that gamestop pre-order customers got a bonus compared to the demo coming out on the first day is losing sales. Here's a hint: It's not. It's not losing any sales. To internet adolescents who, as an above poster mentioned are afraid of another console, it loses sales, when in all reality it doesn't.

Honestly don't bother. So many of the responses are just willingly ignoring certain things in order to agree with what was said in the podcast. It's really not worth the energy. Once release passes I don't think rational people will have any problems. As for Sony, they'll get the same amount of money for the game after release as before it.

#215 agentxricky

agentxricky

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:39 PM

I still see half of CAG is retarded. Again, the game is going to be for sale for more than day one. Why the Fuck does it matter that some people get it two weeks early as a bonus for pre-ordering? It doesn't. Anyone who wants it on day one is going to pre-order it. It's no different launching the demo the day it comes out or two weeks later except for day one sales.

NOTE TO CAG: GAMES ARE ON SALE FOR MORE THAN ONE DAY! GREAT IVORY!

Keep beating that drum CAG. While everyone who understand marketing and that games are on sale for more than a day live in the real world, you all can live in la-la land.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a resonable explanation as to why it matters that gamestop pre-order customers got a bonus compared to the demo coming out on the first day is losing sales. Here's a hint: It's not. It's not losing any sales. To internet adolescents who, as an above poster mentioned are afraid of another console, it loses sales, when in all reality it doesn't.


In most cases, meaning if you aren't Nintendo, more than half of your gamer sales are going to be in the launch window of the game. Meaning, if Killzone 2 doesn't hit big during its first week, it''s probably not going to be the hit that everyone wants it to be.

Demo's sell games, just look at what the Bioshock demo did for that game. It sold copies to people who never even heard of the game. You underestimate the power of a demo to swoon non-customers.

#216 SnotRocket

SnotRocket

    $20? To much!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:01 PM

I have to agree with Wombat playstation NEEDS a hit game. To take one of the biggest games they have at the moment and possibly one of the biggest games for the console advertising wise, to limit the demo to preorders only has to be the most retarded thing they can do. People have to play the game to decide if they want to spend $60 on it, specially with the economy now. Not allowing me to play the demo tells me the game isn't finished or that it sucks, when you make something special you want to share it with everyone, even if it's 5 minutes of gameplay you want them to see it.

I really do wish the PS3 dies.

banner1.gif
fss_overall.png


#217 Nathan_Sama

Nathan_Sama

    I'm backwards compatable.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:06 PM

I really liked that Street Fighter Review. Thanks for another great podcast guys!


#218 Wingwright

Wingwright

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:08 PM

Congratulations on 150 episodes!
This episode was great, especially the part about your wives.

Shipwreck, you really need to post pictures or a video of your legendary basement.

#219 usickenme

usickenme

    I'm the a-hole

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:33 PM

This episode need to be renamed.

Wombat hates the Wii and pretty much everything except free stuff.

#220 kashwashwa

kashwashwa

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:35 PM

I'd love to sign up for Netflix, but to even get the trial activated it asks for an american credit card (I'm in Canada).

Is there any way around having to use an american credit card, or is there a way to obtain one as a Canadian citizen?
Posted Image

#221 Hbomb5

Hbomb5

    Cross Border Gamer

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:44 PM

Wombat, I understand your story with the actor. I have a somewhat similar story.

Back in 1999, my buddy Joel and I won tickets to the Final Four. While we were waiting in the will call line for our tickets, Joel saw a guy who kinda looked familiar to him. "Dude, it's Kirk Herbstreit!" he said, as if I knew who he was (I didn't as the time; I didn't watch College GameDay). So, Joel handed his camera to somebody and got his pic taken with Herbstreit, and I still had no clue.
Cross Border Gaming Podcast- http://crossbordergaming.com Discussing the latest games, busting Cheapy's chops, and hating on Jack White. (Blue Orchid sucks!)

Hblog- http://hbombgames.com
The Internet's newest home for gaming news, reviews, commentary, and community.

I am NOT on the glue!

#222 Wombat

Wombat

    CAGcast or nothin

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:49 PM

This episode need to be renamed.

Wombat hates the Wii and pretty much everything except free stuff.


Wouldn't the Wii just be included in the "pretty much everything" and for the record I have hated some free stuff, I played Haze, Jericho and Turok.

So maybe just "Wombat hates pretty much everything"

#223 Sarang01

Sarang01

    My Use Name Is Saber

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:56 PM

Wombat I've been wondering. Have you gotten a real home theater setup yet or what? I mean the way you relentlessly bash the PS3 when I noted there are definitely some PS3 games out there 3rd party on both systems that have 7.1 PCM while the 360 version obviously does not. I just don't understand why you wouldn't buy said versions of games, all things being equal. I even listed it under the uncompressed audio games list.
I only wish I could find more info on the games that are even 5.1 PCM.
Posted Image

"Friends let friends eat each other out.".

#224 DarkNessBear

DarkNessBear

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:17 PM

Honestly don't bother. So many of the responses are just willingly ignoring certain things in order to agree with what was said in the podcast. It's really not worth the energy. Once release passes I don't think rational people will have any problems. As for Sony, they'll get the same amount of money for the game after release as before it.


Ya, it isn't worth the argument.

This basically sums up the idiocy in this thread:

I have to agree with Wombat playstation NEEDS a hit game. To take one of the biggest games they have at the moment and possibly one of the biggest games for the console advertising wise, to limit the demo to preorders only has to be the most retarded thing they can do. People have to play the game to decide if they want to spend $60 on it, specially with the economy now. Not allowing me to play the demo tells me the game isn't finished or that it sucks, when you make something special you want to share it with everyone, even if it's 5 minutes of gameplay you want them to see it.

I really do wish the PS3 dies.


:applause:Way to go you!
360/PS3/PC/Wii Owner Currently playing: U3, Skyrim, AC:R


#225 Wombat

Wombat

    CAGcast or nothin

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:18 PM

Wombat I've been wondering. Have you gotten a real home theater setup yet or what? I mean the way you relentlessly bash the PS3 when I noted there are definitely some PS3 games out there 3rd party on both systems that have 7.1 PCM while the 360 version obviously does not. I just don't understand why you wouldn't buy said versions of games, all things being equal. I even listed it under the uncompressed audio games list.
I only wish I could find more info on the games that are even 5.1 PCM.


I know I shouldn't reply to this but here goes.

If you listened to the show, which you obviously didn't, you would have heard the story about my new headphones. You also seemed to miss the parts when I mention the PS3 is system I am playing the most right now. Or how many times in the past I have said that it is a great console. My only gripe is with the way they market the product, not the product itself. In fact if I didn't like the PS3 then I wouldn't care how they market it, but I do care because I want it to succeed. So do not say I "relentlessly bash" the PS3.

And most of my 3rd party game decisions are based on two things:

What console will my friends be playing on, so I can play with them

What console with have DLC that I may want in the future

The difference between 7.1 or 5.1 wouldn't be enough as I rather play online with Shippy and Cheapy then enjoy the lush sounds by myself.

#226 Davestation

Davestation

    Dont Cross The Streams

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:24 PM

I have to agree with Wombat playstation NEEDS a hit game. To take one of the biggest games they have at the moment and possibly one of the biggest games for the console advertising wise, to limit the demo to preorders only has to be the most retarded thing they can do. People have to play the game to decide if they want to spend $60 on it, specially with the economy now. Not allowing me to play the demo tells me the game isn't finished or that it sucks, when you make something special you want to share it with everyone, even if it's 5 minutes of gameplay you want them to see it.

I really do wish the PS3 dies.


I agree with your statement, except for the last sentence. Giving demos away for pre-orders is so last gen. Having outlets such as X-Box Live and Playstation Network there should be no reason to have a demo as a pre-order incentive. Especially since the first Killzone was just average and is not considered a huge Brand for Playstation yet.

Also, Wombat's interview at the end was interesting, though the guy seemed to be such a big deush. "Going back to console FPS, we find a struggle after playing our game...". Well, what do you tell to the compulsive must masterbate eight times a day guy who spends all of his wrist action on his hobby? They do not have the strength to hold up the wii-remote and shoot. They would rather be shooting something else out...Wombat's last question the guy seemed to sound like JD Harmeires roomate with all the stuttering he was doing. Wombat had good questions, but the guy was really under knowledge. Halo being the first console FPS game that people noticed? No dipshit, how about Goldeneye for the 64? What a deush.....

Spoiler

[IMG]http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/%3Ca%20href=%22http://www.us.playstation.com/PSN/Users/Davestation%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://pid.us.playstation.com/user/Davestation.jpg%22%20width=%22235%22%20height=%22149%22%20border=%220%22%20/%3E%3C/a%3E[/IMG][IMG]http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/%3Ca%20href=%22http://www.us.playstation.com/PSN/Users/Davestation%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://pid.us.playstation.com/user/Davestation.jpg%22%20width=%22235%22%20height=%22149%22%20border=%220%22%20/%3E%3C/a%3E[/IMG]

#227 bmulligan

bmulligan

    I am a free man

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:27 PM

I have to agree with Wombat playstation NEEDS a hit game. To take one of the biggest games they have at the moment and possibly one of the biggest games for the console advertising wise, to limit the demo to preorders only has to be the most retarded thing they can do. People have to play the game to decide if they want to spend $60 on it, specially with the economy now. Not allowing me to play the demo tells me the game isn't finished or that it sucks, when you make something special you want to share it with everyone, even if it's 5 minutes of gameplay you want them to see it.

I really do wish the PS3 dies.


I certainly don't want the PS3 to die, especially since I just paid $400 for one. But the ineptness of Sony's marketing is mind-boggling. It's almost like they're trying to be #3.

I watch a lot of TV and I haven't seen ONE commercial for Killzone yet. Hell, I can't even remember the last time I saw a commercial for the PS3. Yet they keep sending me these slick heavy card stock mailers every other month and I keep throwing them away becuase they're useless. At least last generation they had Best Buy coupons in them. I don't understand why they didn't keep pushing Little Big Planet either. What a great game to cash in on for the current "family entertainment" craze.

Has anyone heard of a Killzone Bundle? Not me. Did they do a LBP bundle ? Nope. Way to go Sony, way to tie your flagship brand to an anchor instead of trying to create some excitement in the market. I know, lets just cater to the fanatic Kojima fans, put out MGS4 and a bundle for that and hope for the best - and Fuck everybody else for not buying a PS3. I just don't understand the logic. Promotion, promotion, promotion. It's all about promotion. Nobody's going to buy your shit if you don't even seem excited to be selling it yourself. Just compare any interview or tradeshow presentation between Sony and Nintendo. Nintendo reeks with arrogance and excitement. Sony just reeks, you can tell that none of them really believe in their product enough to be happy about it.

The Neo-Communist Manifesto: "In your mind freedom is an end in and of itself. In my mind freedom is a means of improving society and giving people a better life. Those ideas result in very different methods of running society. " - alonzomourning23

bmulligan.png<------GOOZEX ?    Goozex is dead.


#228 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:36 PM

For watching alot of TV, you sure missed the multimillion dollar commercial they produced for the Super Bowl.

#229 Mana Knight

Mana Knight

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:41 PM

There's a Killzone 2 ad about to go live soon and it totally owns.
http://playstation.j...e-2-commercial/

Actually, there was an article once (can't remember where I saw it, I posted it around CAG) which shows that offering a demo actually hurts sales. Games without demos tend to sell better. What sells a game is marketing, and KZ2 has an awesome commercial that should help.

For those who live in Europe, they are getting the KZ2 demo anyway (and PS3 actually has a bigger userbase in Europe too).

The number of people whining/complaining the KZ2 GS demo is very insignificant anyway. It's like it will seem at forums that certain niche games are selling very well based on the popularity, but when you look at overall sales, it didn't sell too well.
Posted Image

#230 JadedJedi

JadedJedi

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:43 PM

Wombat hates the Wii? Good for Wombat! I also hate the Wii. All I ever seem to turn the thing on for is Virtual Console games. I would sell the thing, but the moment I do, my 360 will red ring. Murphy's Law FTL!
Posted Image Posted Image

#231 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:50 PM

There's a Killzone 2 ad about to go live soon and it totally owns.
http://playstation.j...e-2-commercial/

Actually, there was an article once (can't remember where I saw it, I posted it around CAG) which shows that offering a demo actually hurts sales. Games without demos tend to sell better. What sells a game is marketing, and KZ2 has an awesome commercial that should help.

For those who live in Europe, they are getting the KZ2 demo anyway (and PS3 actually has a bigger userbase in Europe too).

The number of people whining/complaining the KZ2 GS demo is very insignificant anyway. It's like it will seem at forums that certain niche games are selling very well based on the popularity, but when you look at overall sales, it didn't sell too well.


We call this the GAF>>>>>Internet>>>>GAF effect, meaning, small communities who really think they influence anything are in mad denial. It's also the biggest problem I have with these communities who think that they're sooooo important when in reality, no one cares outside of their internet circle.

Also, I find it funny that tormentoso (or however you spell his name) is a household name on GAF now.

#232 shipwreck

shipwreck

    CAG Reviews Editor

  • Super Moderators

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:51 PM

For watching alot of TV, you sure missed the multimillion dollar commercial they produced for the Super Bowl.


They had a Super Bowl ad? I don't remember seeing one.

I do see that one where quick cuts of games are projected on buildings and then they show Batman projected on a building. I call that one "Hey, it's Batman!" because I think that's the only thing the general public can identify in that commercial.
"Red-Headed Pain In The Ass" - Wombat
Posted Image

#233 Blackout

Blackout

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:52 PM

Wombat, what is up wit the massive hard on for Dead Space? Did you get that game for free or something? Perfect game? No way in hell Dead Space is a perfect game. Dead Space is an amazing game.... if you only play the first couple of chapters. Everything after that is repetitive as hell and around Chapter 7 you can pretty much guess the ending to the game. The story sucked and was a huge let down. I also don't get why so many people thought that game was so scary. I'm a huge pussy and I didn't even find Dead Space to be all that frightening. To me Dead Space was one of the most overrated games of 2008.

Killzone should be a great game, but I don't think it's going to sell Gears type numbers. Sony doesn't know how to market their games. All they do is those stupid ass commercials with a bunch of trendy people playing PSPs and game videos playing on their shirts. Their commercials suck. Shipwreck, I can't remember if you said you were going to buy it or not, but cmon man. You buy all those crappy games no one cares about. The least you could do is pick up what is probably going to be one of the biggest PS3 games of the year.

The problem with the PS3 is that it costs too much, and Sony doesn't know how to market the games it has. I think if PS3 was the same exact price as the 360, it would be kicking the shit out of it sales wise. Why would someone pay more for a system that does the same exact thing as the other guys do? I think the PS3 still hasn't gotten past the bad image it has had since it's launched, and that's a huge problem. Everyone just automatically dismisses the system. The typical exuse is "oh I'm waiting for good games". If you haven't found one by now, you're not ever going to find one. I don't know what more they have to do in that department. It's not like the 360 is the land of milk and honey like the PS2 was. Both basically have the same exact games. There are also way too many people who think if a PS3 game doesn't sell 10 million copies, it's an automatic failure.

Edited by Blackout, 19 February 2009 - 11:07 PM.



#234 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 10:57 PM

They had a Super Bowl ad? I don't remember seeing one.

I do see that one where quick cuts of games are projected on buildings and then they show Batman projected on a building. I call that one "Hey, it's Batman!" because I think that's the only thing the general public can identify in that commercial.


Please be informed.

#235 shipwreck

shipwreck

    CAG Reviews Editor

  • Super Moderators

Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:07 PM

Please be informed.


Umm... That was a fan made video that most certainly did not air during the Super Bowl.
"Red-Headed Pain In The Ass" - Wombat
Posted Image

#236 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:10 PM

The article that I read recently was:

http://www.unigamesi...s-game-killers/

And if you read that article all the way to the end the conclusion is mixed; As the author, Calin, references both the successes and failures of game demos and how it's a mixed bag. Whereas FPS titles with good demos and reviews like Halo 3 & COD4 do well whereas other types (genres) of games (LBP namely) even with positive reviews and good demos do less than stellar. Obviously FPSs with marginal demos and critical reviews (BF:BC) or bad demos (HAZE) do poorly. [All published titles compared here were picked by the author, not by me]. He juxtaposes those titles with huge franchise hits without demos IE MGS4, GTA:IV where a demo could only do harm to the title as it would sell regardless. So the basis for any conclusion based on that is suspect at best and could go eitherway.

And wasn't that Killzone 2 ad you posted proven to be both fan-made and vapor, in the sense that it never aired. The one Ship referenced was the only one I saw.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#237 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:14 PM

beta ain't a demo.
Posted Image

#238 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:21 PM

beta ain't a demo.

Absolutely true, and the article barely (if at all) differentiates between the two (and it also ignores the Metal Gear Online beta, perhaps rightly so- but it does include the Halo 3 beta, CoD4 beta- which had a demo). Ergo, that article is about as valid as the bandwidth it occupies.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#239 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:24 PM

The article that I read recently was:

http://www.unigamesi...s-game-killers/

And if you read that article all the way to the end the conclusion is mixed; As the author, Calin, references both the successes and failures of game demos and how it's a mixed bag. Whereas FPS titles with good demos and reviews like Halo 3 & COD4 do well whereas other types (genres) of games (LBP namely) even with positive reviews and good demos do less than stellar. Obviously FPSs with marginal demos and critical reviews (BF:BC) or bad demos (HAZE) do poorly. [All published titles compared here were picked by the author, not by me]. He juxtaposes those titles with huge franchise hits without demos IE MGS4, GTA:IV where a demo could only do harm to the title as it would sell regardless. So the basis for any conclusion based on that is suspect at best and could go eitherway.

And wasn't that Killzone 2 ad you posted proven to be both fan-made and vapor, in the sense that it never aired. The one Ship referenced was the only one I saw.


Weird, thought it aired. Guess my Super Bowl night is a little hazier than I thought. Either way, they're putting out a full marketing plan in the next few days, so it doesn't matter anyways that they didn't advertise for the past week or so, as again, the only people who care are the people who are getting it day one, but - again- games are on sale for more than one day.

And are you really that dumb h3ll? Have you missed the posts where we said the demo's going to be available day one it's out?

Matter of fact, you didn't even understand the logistics of influenzing pre-orders last night, so I highly doubt you understand the concept of "bonus".

#240 MaxDense

MaxDense

    Enter Sandman

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:34 PM

Actually, there was an article once (can't remember where I saw it, I posted it around CAG) which shows that offering a demo actually hurts sales. Games without demos tend to sell better...


Don't believe everything you read. Personally I think Sony is dropping the ball by not providing more demos. Flower is a perfect example, it doesn't sound like a game I would like, but if there was a demo, I would definitely give it a try and possible buy the game. Sans demo, I'll pass. I like to "try before I buy" and I don't think I'm alone.

It's time for me to go NUTS and BOLT out of here...


Now Playing
:ps3: Burnout Paradise
:360: Call of Cthulhu

Edited by MaxDense, 20 February 2009 - 01:24 PM.