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CAGcast #151: Xbox Vista


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#121 Wa-Keen

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:45 AM

I meant in general, FPS's tend to be the best selling games on the other consoles, but are barley blip on the radar of the Wii. If they are superior, wouldn't pubilshers be making more of them?



First-person shooter's are targeted to the "core gamer". Game developers are not developing games for the Wii simply because they are scared that their games won't sell on the system. Since the Wii is now known as a "casual console", developers/publishers are backing away from the system and are playing the wait and see game.


If The Conduit & Mad World sell well..... third party developers will start making more "core" games for Wii, and will most likely stop making shovelware.

#122 H.Cornerstone

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:38 AM

Arn't they 10 years old and free?


Not to mention probably still look better on a PC than the Wii. :)

And before you say I'm wrong, keep in mind my PC could run CS 1.6 in > 1080p, with 16x anti-aliasing, and over 60 fps.

And C.S 1.6 isn't free per se. It's a free mod that was released for Half-Life, which is dirt cheap now.

Anyways, what people need to keep in mind is that Wombat doesn't play his Wii that often, so therefore he does not have the experience and is not used to playing FPS on a Wii, so therefore the controls will be foreign to him as he needs to get used to them.

And quite frankly, why should he or anyone multi-console owner play a FPS on a Wii? Yes, the controls may be better, but beyond that, everything else will be worse.

FPS are the most popular game for Multi-player, and this is where most of their longetivity comes from. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that the Wii is better than the PS3/360 in that regard.

And if someone wants a multiplayer FPS experience, why would they choose Conduit over Killzone 2/Resistance 2/Halo 3/COD 4, 5 or possibly 6 (depending on when it comes out)?

Now, could this be a great FPS for a person who solely owns a Wii? Why certainly, but that was not Wombat's point. He was talking solely from his position as a multi-console owner.

#123 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:40 AM

I want to apologize to Wombat for my attitude about him last week. Therefore, I am sending an invitation to allow him to do anything to my body. Free of charge.

#124 SeanAmI

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 03:05 AM

If you're having trouble with the controls in The Conduit, then you're doing it wrong. I controlled it fine when I played it at PAX.

If you want to complain about controls, you should direct your complaint towards to illegitimacy of the dual stick scheme for shooters. Controls are very, very important. Red Steel and Far Cry: Vengeance, as bad as they were, control better than the best that dual stick has ever produced.

As far as graphics, they dont matter once you get to a mid-cycle PS2 level for 3D, and the SNES for 2D.


Hahahaha, Red Steel and good controls in the same sentence.

#125 TheToiletDuck

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 11:41 AM

Another great show guys. Keep up the good work :)

#126 itachiitachi

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 03:22 PM

I wouldn't want to date a Porn Star because I am not fan of STD's and silicon. Also then why do more people buy FPS' on the PS3/360 then on the Wii?


First off how many FPS's have even come out for the Wii? Not that many.

Next what is more important then graphics in most FPS's(besides controls)? Online play, everyone knows the Wii sucks for multiplayer.

Also didn't Cod 3 sell more one the wii than the PS3.

Last What console has the best graphics and controls? The PC yet it usually lags behind in sales for most games(And don't say PC gaming is so expensive you can get a good PC for less than the price of a PS3 and spend less on upgrades than you do buying a new console every 6 years)

Edited by itachiitachi, 27 February 2009 - 05:40 PM.

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

 

This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

 

#127 SuxoR

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 03:53 PM

If I was making a FPS for the Wii I would wait for Wii motion Plus
The concept would be great but the sensor isn't accurate enough, I know when playing a FPS I need extremely accurate controls.

Just coming from a PC FPS person

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#128 Imallvol7

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 03:58 PM

Great Show Guys. I am about half way through this weeks episode but already have some comments. Oh, and thanks for answering the question I had last week. (Sorry for the LONG post).

Expanding on that, does anyone have anything to say about the PS3 version of Street Fighter 4 and its online? I am very curious to know if the PS3 version has the same problems as the 360 version . . . I am trying to decide which console to buy it for.


Oh, and I loved Wombat's comments about Braid being pretentious. I mentioned once on a message board that I wasn't particularly fond of Braid (I got it free from the VGA Awards Giveaway) and was immediately knocked for being too ignorant to play followed by posts of how people had to methodically figure out the puzzles and how I am one of those "shooter" guys and that I don't have the mental capacity to play . . . So really enjoyed your comment on it. Hahaha. Oh, and your new mic sounds AWESOME Wombat.

Next, I would like to just mention, not really complain about, that may be after the GoNintendo incident, Sony Fanboy's will stop being called out as the only and worst "fanboys" in the business. Every system has them, just let it go and stop singling them out.

On the new Xbox dashboard, I really DO love it. I do not miss the old dash system at ALL. However, they really could have done better. It's really hard to find stuff still which I thought was the main point of the new UI. In addition, it does load really slow, especially when I press they Xbox button on the controller to open the mini-tabs. Sometimes my friends won't load at all and I have to use the mini-dash dash board which is still slow. My console was purchased at the end of 2007 by the way.

Another complaint about NXE. THAT F****** PARTY SYSTEM. When I am playing Halo, half the room is always in a party effectively taking away the aspect that most people love about Xbox Live (that everyone has a mic supposedly). Also, when I am trying to chat with a friend or invite them to a game I always seem to end up in a party system unintentionally and I myself end up going through half a game wondering why no one is talking. It is SO frustrating.

As for Killzone 2, I am rather dissapointed at the marketing. I have seen one commercial for the game . . . and thats a shame. Do they just not have any money? I mean, how many times do I see Fable 2, Banjo Kazooie N&B, or actually almost ANY Xbox 360 game commercials. A TON!!! Why Sony doesn't get this, I do not know.

Oh, and I was in the Killzone 2 beta. Multiplayer really is awesome, and that's coming from a guy who thought he was burnt out on them (I play way too much Halo, Socom, Left for Dead, etc). There were tons of people in that Beta who were pretty wowed by it, and I thought that may explain some of the backlash against review scores even though supposedly "no one had played it." Some people are already seriously attached to this game. My copy is coming in the mail soon, but I just discovered how great Mass Effect is so I will put Killzone 2 on hold till I can beat it. Then it's ON!

And I love the "Play With Us" idea. I vote for Halo 3 and Left for Dead, and Killzone 2 when enough people have it. I also enjoy some Warhawk. When are more detalis coming?
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#129 Imallvol7

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:19 PM

I think you're right, im in Europe and i never have any of these lags Cheapy and Wombat are talking about, opening a message never takes longer than 5secs for me


I hope your being sarcastic, lol. 5 seconds is a long time to open a message.
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#130 Imallvol7

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:24 PM

Hey Cheapy & Wombat:

Just wanted to say that your discussion of game pricing, and how companies punish their fans with their desire to suck us dry with lame pre-order bonuses and overpriced DLC.
(Capcom could have easily given people who got the CE all of the extra costumes. so we can have them early, rewarding us for shelling out the extra cash)
But heres and idea, looking at amazon's model, ive been noticing how when a some games come out they the preorder price is a little cheaper. Although on amazon the price is 3 bucks less in most cases.

Just think a AAA game where you go into gamestop and say if you preorder it you only pay 49.99, im sure something like that would definite get fans and others alike to 1 preorder and 2 be rewarded for supporting that companies game, and since the 59.99 is the new industry standard. i doubt later purchasers will even know or care that it people who oreordered got a discount.


I think this idea is superb! However, most publishers don't seem to see the benefit of lower prices on games.
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#131 Imallvol7

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:30 PM

Every console has problems this generation. Cheapy is right on with the sub-par graphics, weekend diversion comment. I haven't used my Wii in months. The XBox Vista thing I can understand, but its not the friends list problems, for me its the marketplace. It takes minutes to load the link to download a demo of arcade game. It loads all the stupid backgrounds and other crap before the link. The PS3 has its near daily updates that takes forever to install before you can even play a game. This whole generation sucks.


really? daily updates? um, K.
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#132 qbkorso

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 05:12 PM

CheapyD says he prefers to play online games on the Xbox360 but Xbox Vista sucks. I'm confused????? Huh did you contradict yourself in this show, I think so.

Anyways, love the show keep up the good work.

#133 DJSteel

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 06:12 PM

CheapyD says he prefers to play online games on the Xbox360 but Xbox Vista sucks. I'm confused????? Huh did you contradict yourself in this show, I think so.

Anyways, love the show keep up the good work.


I don't think he was.. I mean if all his gaming friends are online on the 360 with games, and have headsets, then no matter how bad the interface sucks, you buy the game for that system knowing you'll have plenty of people to online game with.
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#134 Wombat

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 06:27 PM

First off how many FPS's have even come out for the Wii? Not that many.

Next what is more important then graphics in most FPS's(besides controls)? Online play, everyone knows the Wii sucks for multiplayer.

Also didn't Cod 3 sell more one the wii than the PS3.

Last What console has the best graphics and controls? The PC yet it usually lags behind in sales for most games(And don't say PC gaming is so expensive you can get a good PC for less than the price of a PS3 and spend less on upgrades than you do buying a new console every 6 years)


Not many FPS's because they can't compete. Controls aside, as deep down it really a matter of preference, without a real online system why is the plus of getting an FPS on the Wii over the PS3/360. Why should I spend 50 bucks on the the Conduit? What does the game have going for it for the multiplatform (including the PC) owner over something else of equal value?

And for the record I am not a fan of the Mouse and Keyboard, I also can't stand playing games at a desk hunched over. PC gaming is just not for me ergonomically, maybe for you, and thats cool if it is. But I will never be a PC gamer.

#135 daminion

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:22 PM

Xbox Vista is a great term. I personally hate the new interface because I can't find a damn thing. I used to know exactly where to go to get arcade titles, or enter codes and now the whole thing is so convoluted it just pisses me off.

Speed has never been an issue for me. I've heard you guys complain this before and I just figured you were impatient. Then Cheapy saying it takes 45 seconds for his friends list to load... I found that to be odd. Mine loads instantly.

At first I thought maybe this was because I have an elite, or maybe my internet connection was faster - but neither of those made any sense.

Then I realized what it is. It's friends. I bet you guys have 100s of friends on Live. I have 20-30. I typically only friend relatives, RL friends, and people that I play with often.

My guess is if you do a little friends list pruning you will both see a significant improvement in the responsiveness of your console.

The core of the problem, however, remains. It's pretty bad that you need to remove friends on your console in order for it to respond at an acceptable speed.

#136 h3llbring3r

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:24 PM

Not many FPS's because they can't compete. Controls aside, as deep down it really a matter of preference, without a real online system why is the plus of getting an FPS on the Wii over the PS3/360. Why should I spend 50 bucks on the the Conduit? What does the game have going for it for the multiplatform (including the PC) owner over something else of equal value?


Nothing.

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#137 Issue13

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 09:08 PM

Hey guys. Great show as usual. I've been listening to the show for about a year now and have been really enjoying it.

I did want to comment on Cheapy and Wombat's experience with the NXE.

I haven't noticed any slowdown on the NXE guide when compared with the original guide. Loading the NXE takes longer initially, but every time I get a message or look at my Friend List the response is fast.

I should mention that my friend list is not huge and probably isn't 1/10th of the size of yours. If large friend lists are causing slowdown, then this is certainly a huge issue... especially with recent speculation about the friend limit being raised.

Anyway, I just figured that I'd write in for once.

Keep doing that that stuff that you guys do so well.
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#138 I Am ProZac

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 09:13 PM

I wish I could play my wii more often. I still play Smash Bros frequently, I've got Tales of Symphonia waiting, and HOTD:Overkill seems worth looking into, but there's not much else I want. I don't have high expectations for The Conduit, because of the fact that it's on Wii. Metroid Prime was the only Wii FPS worth anything, and it's not your traditional FPS. Granted, I play on PC, and that's where I prefer them. I loved Resistance 2, and I want to try out Killzone 2, but anytime I play a console FPS I find myself wishing I could be doing so on PC.

I find that graphics don't matter to me when gaming either. Really, it's all based around gameplay in the end, and you're cheating a game the chance it deserves if you're discounting it solely on graphics (and I know many people that do this). On PC, I don't even like it when something is pushing the envelope on graphics, because in the end I won't be running it that high anyway, or it'll run like shit if I don't have a brand new machine.
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#139 banodyne

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 09:23 PM

Counter Strike 1.6 and Quake Live totally ignore the "good graphics" argument.

Forget graphics. I'd be happy if Quake Live just worked. Me and a lot of other people are getting false Punkbuster alerts after a minute of playing. We've reported the bug in the forums. I've yet to complete a non-bot game.

#140 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 01:54 AM

Since you love the Killzone 2 review response by fans to 7's, Cheapy, what did you think of the furious responses by Zelda or Halo fan to 8.8's by Twilight Princess and Halo 3?

I haven't had much of a problem with the mini-blade of the new dashboard, though the marketplace is a complete pain in the ass to use since it's so slow. Instead of loading an individual item, it loads a group of them, which takes a few minutes when the old dashboard loaded up each item in the marketplace individually and quickly, too. I try to use the website whenever I need to download stuff because of that now, but I dread having to download stuff from the Xbox 360 now.

I'm surprised you guys weren't whining about another Xbox 360 SKU being announced like you do for any LE PS3 bundle.

That was an exciting description of the Lost Planet 2 trailer by CheapyD.

You guys need to do some more work for the news portion instead of guessing what the news is about.

Cheapy's not going to get the Rock Band game for PSP that's essentially Amplitude?

I definitely wouldn't pay for the CAGcast if you had the chance to charge for it. There are enough free podcasts out there that would make me not think twice about dropping the show.

Another CAGcast and another shitty intro. Good show despite it.

#141 Pojomofo

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 02:35 AM

LMAO, Wombat being hated by the Wii faithful, CheapyD and Shipwreck hated by the sony fanboys, you might as well jsut take over for the Gamerscore guys. Im so glad you guys are not afraid to speak your mind and give us your true opinion without being worried about steeping on toes or offending someone.

PS: Japan Dominos>>>>>>USA Dominos

#142 Scobie

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 01:40 PM

Wombat, I sure am sorry to hear about the impact of the economy's downward spiral has had on you and your brood. Losing your house keeper and having to cut back on your nanny's schedule by one day is pretty impactful stuff. I, too, am on the brink of having to make hard decisions. For instance, if things don't pick up soon, I may have to consider switching over from deluxe mixed nuts to regular mixed nuts. May also have to downshift a bit from the special reserve brandies I enjoy to VSOPs.

Here's to hoping this recession ends before that should occur. In the meantime, let's continue supporting each other.
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#143 itachiitachi

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 03:08 PM

Not many FPS's because they can't compete. Controls aside, as deep down it really a matter of preference, without a real online system why is the plus of getting an FPS on the Wii over the PS3/360. Why should I spend 50 bucks on the the Conduit? What does the game have going for it for the multiplatform (including the PC) owner over something else of equal value?


My point was not that you should buy a FPS for the Wii , it was simply that saying that people won't want to play an FPS on the Wii become of the controls is illogical(especially if controls are matter of preference). Maybe you don't like them yourself and that is fine, but everyone I've seen give a game like RE4 or MP3 a shoot say it's the best FPS controls on any console. Of course as long as Nintendo continues there asinine friend codes, the multiplayer is going to suck, and then the also have worse graphics less power and haven’t bothered to establish or court many new fps franchises. So if you’re a control whores that don’t care about online gaming then wii is for you, if not the wouldn’t expect you to want to buy a game for it.

And for the record I am not a fan of the Mouse and Keyboard, I also can't stand playing games at a desk hunched over. PC gaming is just not for me ergonomically, maybe for you, and that’s cool if it is. But I will never be a PC gamer.


My point there was just that because a game has alot going for it doesn’t mean it will sell well, Just look at Banjo-kazooie nuts and bolts it's not going to sell as well as a madden game but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t more creative, didn't have a better level design and game play or that it wasn't a better game. It just means that more people bought madden.

Also I hear this egronomical thing a lot and I’m curious, does the mouse keyboard just bother you when you’re gaming or when you are using a computer in general?

Edited by itachiitachi, 03 March 2009 - 04:10 PM.
corrected name

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

 

This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

 

#144 mediamaker

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 10:15 PM

Another great show. Cheapy's story about his YouTube video being pulled reminds me of other stories going around like Flicker accounts being pulled and all the users online pictures deleted. That would suck! This all inspired me to write about Censorship 2.0 and if this kind of censorship violates our rights. I'll repost it on my CAG blog & you can catch the original here: mediamavn.com.

#145 sfree79

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 01:38 AM

To chime in on the cheaper game discussion, I used to work at Gamestop during the time that the NFL 2k series released new at $20. I cannot count how many casual people that usually dont pick up Madden every year picked it up. We even had a ton of people buying both Madden and 2k. It was a risky move and I know they sold some crazy amount. The pricing plan worked so well EA went out and got the exclusive license with the NFL and eliminated their competition. Just some food for thought.

#146 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 01:47 AM

To chime in on the cheaper game discussion, I used to work at Gamestop during the time that the NFL 2k series released new at $20. I cannot count how many casual people that usually dont pick up Madden every year picked it up. We even had a ton of people buying both Madden and 2k. It was a risky move and I know they sold some crazy amount. The pricing plan worked so well EA went out and got the exclusive license with the NFL and eliminated their competition. Just some food for thought.

No, they didn't seek out and buy the NFL license. The NFL auctioned it off to the highest bidder because they didn't want multiple publishers making NFL games.

#147 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 04:58 AM

Frisky is 100% correct. Same thing happened with NCAA Basketball + Football, NASCAR, MLB (Third party wise) and probably the NBA soon.

#148 Xavin

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 05:21 AM

Very true...

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#149 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 05:24 AM

Well, the NCAA licenses seemed to happen because nobody else could oppose EA so they got them by default, though 2K bowing out of making 2K9 this past fall was a bit odd.

I wouldn't put the NBA and MLB licenses in there either since they still allowed multiple publishers to make games within their own terms, though I imagine 2K initiated the MLB deal.

#150 ArmyN64

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 09:34 PM

downloading now!

LOL!:lol:That is just great!