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CAGcast #155: P(oops)!


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#61 TheFreshPrince

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:23 PM

Hey Cheapy and Wombat,

After listening to this week's RE5 DLC discussion, I had to chime in.

Here is the reason why your accusations are totally off base:

Sure, charging $5 for the Versus mode probably isn't the best idea, but think of it this way. Take God of War for PS2, one of the best games of last generation. If there was DLC back then, maybe Jaffe would have offered a co-op mode for $5. Would you have complained then? Consider that the 'full' game didn't include co-op, but if there was an online service, maybe multiplayer could have been added.

I believe this is the same with RE5. If there is no DLC, then there is no Versus. The only reason that this mode exists is because DLC offers an avenue to deliver additional content. If there was no such thing as DLC, then you wouldn't be complaining, because Capcom wouldn't be offering this mode whatsoever. The point is, DLC gives the chance for expanded gameplay, take it or leave it. Is God of War incomplete? No. But if there were DLC services back then, people would say it was incomplete because Sony probably would have offered additional modes via the internet.

All in all, DLC just adds more to games. Before it existed, games were games, complete as soon as they went gold. Now, people complain about getting new levels or modes, when in reality, they should be counting their blessings for getting additional content for some of their favorite games. No one is forcing you to buy any of it.

Great show, keep up the good work!

#62 Imallvol7

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:48 PM

It took my 8.5 hours to beat the game on normal with a partner. I was in the middle on my third playthrough when my disk drive failed. I will end up playing through the entire game four times. If you're only going to play through a game once I would highly recommend you rent them. I personally have a Gamefly membership. I don't see why you would pay $60 to play 8 hours of a game.

My issue was not with complaining about the RE5 content, it was the tone/emotion involved and the rationale for it. There's no doubt Capcom handled it in a really crappy way or that a lot of people won't buy the DLC. Listen to the 3/13 Joystiq podcast. They handled it perfectly. They didn't like the content but they didn't get angry about it.

And the company I work for came out in the last thread. It's not like its a secret. I'm not an evil person. I've posted quite a few deals on CAG, I've gone to CAG meetups and even hosted an event where I invited CAGs into my home.


I don't think your an evil person. I just think it was kinda ridiculous how you started talking about never listening again and how because you didn't like how he handled it, you said that he would "lose his voice" in the industry. Why? Because he is expressing what many of us are feeling. That's the best reason to listen to cheapy. No BS. He doesn't hold punches. It's so frustrating when you feel a certain way but there is no one else to express it. Cheapy and Wombat do express that feeling most of the time (along side some poop jokes). The industry is not going to change if everyone is afraid that they might anger the game companies. We know its hard for game makers to make money, but its hard for everyone to make money right now. You still have to adjust to the consumer, we don't adjust to the company. Since cheapy let his opinion known, may be Capcom will change how they handle DLC in the future. A little polite discussion on it isn't going to change anything. I admit, that would be optimal, but that doesn't get peoples attention anymore.

Edited by Imallvol7, 26 March 2009 - 08:08 PM.

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#63 Imallvol7

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:04 PM

Hey Cheapy and Wombat,

After listening to this week's RE5 DLC discussion, I had to chime in.

Here is the reason why your accusations are totally off base:

Sure, charging $5 for the Versus mode probably isn't the best idea, but think of it this way. Take God of War for PS2, one of the best games of last generation. If there was DLC back then, maybe Jaffe would have offered a co-op mode for $5. Would you have complained then? Consider that the 'full' game didn't include co-op, but if there was an online service, maybe multiplayer could have been added.

I believe this is the same with RE5. If there is no DLC, then there is no Versus. The only reason that this mode exists is because DLC offers an avenue to deliver additional content. If there was no such thing as DLC, then you wouldn't be complaining, because Capcom wouldn't be offering this mode whatsoever. The point is, DLC gives the chance for expanded gameplay, take it or leave it. Is God of War incomplete? No. But if there were DLC services back then, people would say it was incomplete because Sony probably would have offered additional modes via the internet.

All in all, DLC just adds more to games. Before it existed, games were games, complete as soon as they went gold. Now, people complain about getting new levels or modes, when in reality, they should be counting their blessings for getting additional content for some of their favorite games. No one is forcing you to buy any of it.

Great show, keep up the good work!


While it technically could be a valid point, this makes as about as much sense to me as the people who always tell me how much they love paying for Xbox live. As a consumer, I am the one buying your product. We, as consumers, are the reason your company exists. I want you to give me value for my money. Ultimately, companies in the video game industry however have made a habit out of explointing DLC. Multiplayer was obviously started before the game was released, and if you didn't want to do multiplayer, then you could have scrapped it and added more elements to the game. We are paying 60$ for games now (65$ + after tax). As for your example of God of War multiplayer, we were paying 50$ for a game back then. A little easier to stomach. In addition, these costumes, horse armor, and bs that is now DLC were fun unlockables back when games were 50$. I feel like the game industry is taking us for granted, and its going to bite them in the ass sooner or later.

I mean, this is Cheap Ass Gamer. We are here for deals (and the always awesome CAGCast). What do you expect?

And don't get me wrong. I am ALL for supporting game companies. I bought Burnout Paradise and I don't even like car games in appreciation of all the free downloadable content and I ended up LOVING it. I just don't like being taken advantage of.

Edited by Imallvol7, 26 March 2009 - 08:39 PM.

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#64 MaxDense

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    Enter Sandman

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 09:22 PM

The 50 million Microsoft paid for GTA 4 DLC.

I don't know how many people this would apply to, but there are people out there like me who have a PS3 and a XBOX 360. Like many people I picked up GTA 4 the first night at midnight when it came out. Now what system do I buy it for? XBOX 360 will have DLC so I buy it for that one.

I do not know how many more copies of GTA 4 were sold for 360 than PS3. If it is 2 :1 or more I would think at 50-60 a game they have well made there investment back and are getting a bonus on top of it with the DLC sales. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to pay just wo sway people from buying a game for the PS3...


Exactly.

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#65 Spartan V07

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:32 PM

Wombat seemed pretty quite in this podcast. He didn't say anything for a lot of the thing CheapyD talked about.


#66 pb0000

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 12:11 AM

BSG Ending was craptastic. The whole god and angels business was terrible. Basically made everything that happend in the series pointless. Who did they get to write the finale? George Lucas?

No more fecal talk please. I might as well go get some jollies and watch a jap scat porn.

Singapore airlines rocks, cant beat their stewardesses. omg they are hot. I nearly had an embarassing moment when one of them dripped water on my pants and wiped the area for me.

#67 jkanownik

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 12:25 AM

I don't think your an evil person. I just think it was kinda ridiculous how you started talking about never listening again and how because you didn't like how he handled it, you said that he would "lose his voice" in the industry. Why? Because he is expressing what many of us are feeling. That's the best reason to listen to cheapy. No BS. He doesn't hold punches. It's so frustrating when you feel a certain way but there is no one else to express it. Cheapy and Wombat do express that feeling most of the time (along side some poop jokes). The industry is not going to change if everyone is afraid that they might anger the game companies. We know its hard for game makers to make money, but its hard for everyone to make money right now. You still have to adjust to the consumer, we don't adjust to the company. Since cheapy let his opinion known, may be Capcom will change how they handle DLC in the future. A little polite discussion on it isn't going to change anything. I admit, that would be optimal, but that doesn't get peoples attention anymore.


It's because I can read GAF or CAG or the comments on Kotaku or Joystiq and get the information in a much shorter time. I already knew a lot of people were pissed off about it. I used to listen to every episode of CAG. Now I'm down to just Joystiq and Giantbomb that I listen to religiously.

Can you really blame me for not listening? Cheapy readily admits he's lazy, he doesn't do any research, his stories are getting longer and more off topic and he's out of touch with a lot of his audience (because he doesn't read some of the key threads on CAG). Add that to the fact that since Wombat had a baby he simply can't put as much into it as he used to. It's not like I loved the CAGCast. It was teetering on an edge and this is what pushed it over.
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#68 gordiet

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:57 AM

the show was good-- it involved fast forwarding through all cheapy's shit talk, i may have missed some game stuff but i kept fast forwarding and checking and he was still going on and on... i'd estimate that perhaps 2% of the listeners enjoyed that segment.

btw, wombat is consistently the funnier of the two and he totally makes the show... maybe i just like that he bought his lobsters a 5 minutes from my house in long beach

#69 Hostile

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:09 AM

What kind of Internet connection do I need to use the OnLive Service?
OnLive works over nearly any broadband connection (DSL, cable modem, fiber, or through the LAN at your college or office). For Standard-Definition TV resolution, OnLive needs a 1.5 Mbps connection. For HDTV resolution (720p60), OnLive needs 5 Mbps.


From their FAQ.

I was reading the same thing last night because I wanted to sign up for the beta and it said something different though. I think I remember reading it was 3 Mbps for 480p and 7 Mbps for 720p.

#70 serenitygod

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    on the brink

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 05:26 AM

Hey Cheapy and Wombat,

After listening to this week's RE5 DLC discussion, I had to chime in.

Here is the reason why your accusations are totally off base:

Sure, charging $5 for the Versus mode probably isn't the best idea, but think of it this way. Take God of War for PS2, one of the best games of last generation. If there was DLC back then, maybe Jaffe would have offered a co-op mode for $5. Would you have complained then? Consider that the 'full' game didn't include co-op, but if there was an online service, maybe multiplayer could have been added.

I believe this is the same with RE5. If there is no DLC, then there is no Versus. The only reason that this mode exists is because DLC offers an avenue to deliver additional content. If there was no such thing as DLC, then you wouldn't be complaining, because Capcom wouldn't be offering this mode whatsoever. The point is, DLC gives the chance for expanded gameplay, take it or leave it. Is God of War incomplete? No. But if there were DLC services back then, people would say it was incomplete because Sony probably would have offered additional modes via the internet.

All in all, DLC just adds more to games. Before it existed, games were games, complete as soon as they went gold. Now, people complain about getting new levels or modes, when in reality, they should be counting their blessings for getting additional content for some of their favorite games. No one is forcing you to buy any of it.

Great show, keep up the good work!


I have to agree with Cheapy on this! Because back then co-op wasn't the thing to have. Now it seems like it was developed already and you expect games to have online etc when you buy them.
I can withhold whatever I want and charge you for it because $60 is nto enough for a game screw that!
$60 ought to be it I kinda blame anybody who buys this damn CE shit also
because the companies know they can get away with giving you an artbook and some music cd and charging $80 people will pay it then they kinda just inflate prices little by little and withhold things.

If it is something cheap that isn't really a function of almost every game and not developed beforehand than by-all-means do it otherwise stay away from overpriced games and DLC that is pre-conceived
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#71 Energy Penguin

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:19 AM

I got the E-74 error right after the NXE update. I told MS that it RROD'ed. They sent me a refurb. I have had it for a couple of months now and it is starting to spaz out. The disc drive gets really loud, so I'm installing the disc games I play to the HDD. But with a 20g HDD I have been forced to delete arcade games & add-ons, which I don't like. I know I can DL again, but I paid for these things and now I can't use them until I upgrade my HDD, ridiculous. Drop the price on these hardrives! Now I'm thinking of selling my refurb to GS and getting a Jasper arcade, FTW!! Funny thing is, my refurb has been holding up ok, I bet if I get a new one it RROD's in a month.

#72 xDARKx Knight

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 12:10 PM

Wombat seemed pretty quite in this podcast. He didn't say anything for a lot of the thing CheapyD talked about.


He was probably thinking about his holiday :)

Great show again guys. Its funny how some people are getting pissed about the poop stories. Everyone does it (apart from pooping on the floor part), whats your problem! Lighten up!

Wombat, you should do a whole show in your "British" accent. It gets funnier (and slightly worse everytime) :D. If we only we spoke like that :roll:

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#73 Ultramontane

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:43 PM

With all of Cheapy's constant talk of food adventures, it's only natural to expect a solid segment on dropping axe. I'm still undecided if that was a great topic but it made me appreciate all you can eat pizza.

#74 Achuba Nanoia

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:50 PM

He was probably thinking about his holiday :)

Great show again guys. Its funny how some people are getting pissed about the poop stories. Everyone does it (apart from pooping on the floor part), whats your problem! Lighten up!

Wombat, you should do a whole show in your "British" accent. It gets funnier (and slightly worse everytime) :D. If we only we spoke like that :roll:


I bet if he got drunk with Whisky and did his accent, he would sound just like the DemoMan from TeamFortress 2 !
The most difficult game of all is life: 1up, no pause, no save-feature, no strategy guide. Just pray you can get someone to play co-op.

#75 Pan1c42

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 05:34 PM

I was having a terrible week. (today is my Saturday), then I realized. at least I didn't shit on my floor.

#76 Imallvol7

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:59 PM

I got the E-74 error right after the NXE update. I told MS that it RROD'ed. They sent me a refurb. I have had it for a couple of months now and it is starting to spaz out. The disc drive gets really loud, so I'm installing the disc games I play to the HDD. But with a 20g HDD I have been forced to delete arcade games & add-ons, which I don't like. I know I can DL again, but I paid for these things and now I can't use them until I upgrade my HDD, ridiculous. Drop the price on these hardrives! Now I'm thinking of selling my refurb to GS and getting a Jasper arcade, FTW!! Funny thing is, my refurb has been holding up ok, I bet if I get a new one it RROD's in a month.


Holy SH*T. I am pissed off right now. My Xbox 360 just RED RINGED!!!! I have been saying for months on message boards how my 360 works great and the problem has been fixed, but thats BS. Me, and 2 of my friends 360's both RROD's this week! I have been rather uncaring of the whole RROD matter up until now. This is totally unacceptable. People need to stop buying this console right now until MS can prove that they can deliver a good product. Now, I have to send in my Xbox 360 that I bought new to get someone elses crappy refurb xbox? I am about 2 inches from being a MS anti-fanboy. Their customer service reps better treat me well.
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#77 udabenshen

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    Almost Revolutionary...

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 01:56 AM

hey cheapy and wombat, could you really not see see how the imagery of RE5 could be constructed as racist? Really? I don't really think it is after playing it, but you don't see how it could be seen by a passerby (AKA media) as racist? Whatever, maybe I'm too obsessed with the subtlety of other opinions when it comes to these kind of issues.

Also, there are pc gamers who use CAG, just check out the CAG steam group! Although I am wary about onlive, it is an interesting future that could change the way games are experienced. While not exactly the same, I pretty much watch most of my tv through hulu and I use Netflix streaming all of the time so technically those are very similar processes to OnLive. Monetizing it does seem quite problematic though. We'll just have to see what happens, though.

#78 CatLomein

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:38 AM

I recently had to give a poop sample and it was also a tube with a top but connected to the top was a mini shovel. IT WAS SO COOL. I really wanted to save it but I needed to send it to the poop evaluation company....

@Cheapy. If you don't want to poop on the floor to collect your poop easily, next time you could take a sheet of plastic wrap and lift up your toilet seat and put it wrap over the bowl and poop into the sheet of plastic wrap. You can still wipe your ass and put the toilet paper in the toilet because the plastic wrap doesn't completely cover the bowl of the toilet. Thats the way I did it.

#79 tcolberg

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:43 AM

Congrats on the new uber search bar CheapyD and Super Programmer John, it works really well. I'm liking that it expands a list of search results if it finds matches rather than having to load another page to show results. I'm also really happy with the layout of the individual game info pages and can't wait to start contributing to them.

I was having a terrible week. (today is my Saturday), then I realized. at least I didn't shit on my floor.


^^:rofl:

Oh man, that is so true. That definitely changes my perspective on this week.

Edited by tcolberg, 28 March 2009 - 02:48 AM.
Elaboration


#80 richdmoore

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 08:56 PM

I am currently listening to this podcast on an airline on the way home. I am a bit offended that Cheepy D's and Wombat's talk about the destroyed Fedex shipment was all about talking about the loss of a package, or if Fedex will pay the sender back, and never talked about the two lives lost in the crash.

I don't mind talking about the crash, if Fedex will cover the loss, etc. but taking 5 seconds to tell Captain Mosley and FO Stephen-Pino families that you are sorry for their loss would have been the classy thing to do.

I hope you will correct this omission on your next podcast.

#81 DreadMech

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    is the infamous Takamofo

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:18 PM

I don't know if it's been suggested yet, but "Twits or GTFO" would be a sweet name for the Twitter segment.
XBL Gamertag: Takamofo / PSN: DaftGT

#82 Xninja

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 01:53 AM

First of all great Cagcast as usual. I have been hearing week after week how you think paid content is a bad idea. I think it is smarter than you give them credit for. Its like the mmo concept, the more you invest, the least likely you are to walk away from it. Its like this, if i bought a game and then bought a map pack or 2, then I am far less likely to trade this game in than if i got free maps or add-ons. No one wants to throw away an investment. Just my 2 cents.

Xninja

#83 Maltandbagels

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 03:11 AM

I second the "Twits or GTFO" suggestion.

#84 krazy14kraz

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 06:30 AM

What the hell Wombat, as much as I like you on the podcast, I'm a little disappointed that you won't admit that your British accent is from Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story. To be specific, your accent is John Lennon's one.

#85 hipsterplease

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 01:52 PM

Cheapy and Wombat, I've never asked you for anything -- anything! -- in the past, but now I have a request; please call your monthly exploration of the subtle intricacies of the NPD numbers "Down With NPD." I will even make the intro music myself if necessary.

Edited by 1modernboy, 29 March 2009 - 01:53 PM.
typo


#86 dlostluv

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 05:09 PM

i would like to add since u guys where on the discussion of dlc ripoffs and namco is buy far the worse people in history in terms of dlc due to Soul Calibur 4 and Beautiful katamari- In the essence of soul calibur 4 they were charging basically for unlock keys to costumes and to even darth vader on 360 (yoda for ps3) and vader was around 10 bucks. then the dlc content for katamari was the same thing except they were 3 bucks a piece for new levels (the way they catch you is if your trying to get the super huge katamari achievement u have to get all dlc to get it). I personally think if developers want fans to be a lil more satisfied stop the practice of dlc keys and actually make real dlc. Burnout paradise is the best example of free dlc in terms of the bikes and time switch dlc which was not only free but added even more replay value to an already great game. I also feel your pain for the street fighter 4 dlc because i got the collectors edition as a gift from my friend and when i saw they added dlc costumes only to realize the free one was for the grapplers in the game i felt ripped off because the purpose of the collectors edition is to either a: get a bad ass bonus like in the instance of mortal kombat: deception u got mk 1 free or b: you got 1st access to premium dlc before it is available to everyone else. I don't mind dlc as a tool to expanding the gameplay but when all it does is add a simple mode or expand the game for less then 1 min it should just be an update.

Edited by dlostluv, 29 March 2009 - 05:11 PM.
proof reading


#87 Gamer SDP

Gamer SDP

    not much of a gamer

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 07:00 PM

glad that this one wasn't a repeat of the previous one (ranting on and on)

however, there was one thing that bothered me cheapy. you did not mention anything about Japan winning the 2009 World Baseball Classic. Is it not as big of a deal as I thought it would be in Japan? I watched the game on tv and it seemed that there were a lot more Korean fans than there were Japanese. perhaps Korea cares more about defeating Japan in anything than Japan does? Also, have you witnessed any tensions between other Asian groups and the local Japanese since living in Japan?

with the economy the way it as and Wombat's claim of there being very little in his checking account, I wonder if we listeners can hope to hear more of Wombat spending money on games or 9 lb lobsters thanks to the Netflix/CagCast signup.

#88 x3x1x

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    So fresh and so clean

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 07:05 PM

Just want to put in a comment that you should move that search bar up top where the old navigation is right now. It's kinda small right now and just pushed to the side, plus there's no need for two navigation bars.

#89 dopa345

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    All around nice guy

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:26 PM

A nine pound lobster? Are you kidding me? All I can say is any sympathy I had for Wombat and his financial issues went out the window when I heard that.

Also, I think CheapyD is partially right about DLC potentially deterring people from trading in all games and I would take it a step further. I think that is another reason beyond simple greed for this trend of publishers nickle and diming gamers with DLC. Since you can't trade in DLC or resell it, it becomes a sunk cost that you can't recoup when you trade in the original game and the DLC is otherwise useless. At least, I would be less inclined to trade in a game that I spent extra for DLC that will just take up space if I don't have the original game.

#90 guinness1987

guinness1987

Posted 30 March 2009 - 12:39 AM

Two things really urked me about this episode.
1. The description of why wombat really liked the RE 5 weapon upgrade system....
I remember a time when he said the complete opposite about Devil May cry and why he hated its weapon upgrade system. He said quote "I never feel like I know what to upgrade, and if it will be good at the end of the game".
2. Cheapy's GTA DLC calculations...
I know they where on the fly, but that just didn't make sense at all. You failed to figure in how much extra in sales that version made due to the promised DLC over the PS3 version. (Xbox poking Sony in the eye, Priceless)