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Diane Watson (D- California) Health care town hall - she can't be serious?


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#1 Don Chubo

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 02:33 AM

http://www.breitbart...th-care-system/

Listen to the clip - if she really believes what she's saying, it's mind-boggling.
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Should we start with Biden, Hank Johnson, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Tony Wiener and work from there? Dumbass.

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#2 elprincipe

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 04:03 AM

What an ignorant maroon.
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#3 AdultLink

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 06:12 AM

I can imagine since Fidel is a dictator like Obama.
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#4 fatherofcaitlyn

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:50 AM

That was a very creative interpretation of Cuban history.

Furthermore, I think we should continue the embargo. Fidel is about to give up.
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#5 mykevermin

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 04:55 PM

I appreciate the thorough and well-documented refutation of Watson's points.

"SHE SAID NICE THINGS ABOUT CUBAN HEALTH CARE HOLY CRAP WHAT A FOOL!"

That's really about the gist of all you have there.
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#6 VipFREAK

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 05:05 PM

Well... Could've been worse I suppose... She could've been praising Hitler.

On behalf of Kaliforneya I have to apologize since we are idiots when it come to voting for stuff.

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#7 KingBroly

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:32 PM

I appreciate the thorough and well-documented refutation of Watson's points.

"SHE SAID NICE THINGS ABOUT CUBAN HEALTH CARE HOLY CRAP WHAT A FOOL!"

That's really about the gist of all you have there.


What I heard was there have been a lot of stupid leaders she's met, and that Castro was one of the smarter idiots she met.
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#8 AdultLink

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 03:10 AM

I appreciate the thorough and well-documented refutation of Watson's points.

"SHE SAID NICE THINGS ABOUT CUBAN HEALTH CARE HOLY CRAP WHAT A FOOL!"

That's really about the gist of all you have there.


You forgot to mention Fidel Castro. How convenient. I assume when a politician praises hitler, napoleon, or stalin you'll leave that out too?
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#9 mykevermin

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 03:43 AM

You forgot to mention Fidel Castro. How convenient. I assume when a politician praises hitler, napoleon, or stalin you'll leave that out too?


Castro = Hitler?

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.
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#10 Dark_Sage

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:26 AM

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.


This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

#11 tivo

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:56 AM

:rofl:


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#12 mykevermin

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 05:48 AM

Ho-HO! Quite a gotcha! Yes indeed.

That's what we're here for, right? Some real "zingers," eh? Like we're too smart to play "the dozens," but that's secretly what we long to do.

"Son, you be all up in here like Tip O'Neill at an open bar!"
"OOOOOOOOOOHHHHH SNAP!"

Let's overlook the absurd suggestion that all leaders of nations that the United States is positioned against are equal. Let's ignore topics of substance; we've got "yo' mama" jokes to make.

Because Hitler = Castro, right? Right? Right?
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#13 speedracer

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 01:44 PM

You forgot to mention Fidel Castro. How convenient. I assume when a politician praises hitler, napoleon, or stalin you'll leave that out too?

Kids say the darndest thing. Stalin got the lol from me.

#14 Don Chubo

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 02:53 PM

You're bitching about this? You?

Ho-HO! Quite a gotcha! Yes indeed.

That's what we're here for, right? Some real "zingers," eh? Like we're too smart to play "the dozens," but that's secretly what we long to do.

"Son, you be all up in here like Tip O'Neill at an open bar!"
"OOOOOOOOOOHHHHH SNAP!"

Let's overlook the absurd suggestion that all leaders of nations that the United States is positioned against are equal. Let's ignore topics of substance; we've got "yo' mama" jokes to make.

Because Hitler = Castro, right? Right? Right?


From the Book of Deluded and/or Ridiculous, Vol. 1, page 1, paragraph 1:

Oh, any ideology has people who speak quite crassly or aren't intellectually deep. Us on the left are proud of the fact that, despite knowing we have them, we don't elect them to office or treat them as vanguards of a movement.


Should we start with Biden, Hank Johnson, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Tony Wiener and work from there? Dumbass.

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#15 willardhaven

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 03:03 PM

Furthermore, I think we should continue the embargo. Fidel is about to give up.

Haha

Despite this lady being pretty off the mark, Cuba is only two ranks behind the U.S. according to the WHO. I think that's pretty telling.

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#16 itachiitachi

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 03:28 PM

I appreciate the thorough and well-documented refutation of Watson's points.

How about the part where she talks about how They just "went out among the population to find a leader" and they happeded to find Castro, Ya they just "happened" to find someone who lead multiple revolets agaist the government and was a big figure in the revolution.

Because Hitler = Castro, right? Right? Right?

Beacuse censorship, politcal exictions, political oppresion, and forced labor camps that included beatings, biological experiments, violent interrogations and extremely unsanitary conditions, that doesn't sound like an evil dictator at all? Right? Right?

As far as the health care is concerned from what I've read Cuba does infact have good health-care.

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

 

This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

 

#17 mykevermin

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 03:47 PM

See, why is it that nuance only comes out when pressed to do so?

My initial complaint was that lambasting Watson for saying nice things about Cuba was the problem. If you don't like Castro, or don't like how he came into power, or what he has done as a leader, fine. I would by and large agree with you.

I still think it's incredibly foolish to go to the lengths you have to argue that Castro=Hitler. You're really not just pulling a Godwin, but going back and looking at that claim, thinking it accurate?

But the OP doesn't begin to separate the claims of the quality of Cuban health care from Castro as a leader or her incorrect summation of Cuban history.

Instead we get "she can't be serious?" and "if she really believes what she's saying, it's mind-boggling." That's the depth of the analysis - vague assertions about the clip itself, and not a single attempt to break down the clip into nuances. We're led to assume that Heavy Hitter was talking about one thing or another. Me? I assume he's talking about the whole clip, because he didn't offer any nuance.

So you can have your zingers or quote your signatures, but the fact of the matter is that nobody in this thread has attempted to specify and point out that the world is more complex than "LOL CASTRO" except for willardhaven. You would prefer to get your internet jollies by attacking me instead of asking the OP what in the world he's saying Watson "can't be serious" about, or pointing out that it's an oversimplistic conclusion to come to.

You can have your laffs - but you'll know, just like I do, that you're doing so because you're incapable of a deeper conversation.
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#18 fullmetalfan720

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:52 PM

See, why is it that nuance only comes out when pressed to do so?

My initial complaint was that lambasting Watson for saying nice things about Cuba was the problem. If you don't like Castro, or don't like how he came into power, or what he has done as a leader, fine. I would by and large agree with you.

I still think it's incredibly foolish to go to the lengths you have to argue that Castro=Hitler. You're really not just pulling a Godwin, but going back and looking at that claim, thinking it accurate?

But the OP doesn't begin to separate the claims of the quality of Cuban health care from Castro as a leader or her incorrect summation of Cuban history.

Instead we get "she can't be serious?" and "if she really believes what she's saying, it's mind-boggling." That's the depth of the analysis - vague assertions about the clip itself, and not a single attempt to break down the clip into nuances. We're led to assume that Heavy Hitter was talking about one thing or another. Me? I assume he's talking about the whole clip, because he didn't offer any nuance.

So you can have your zingers or quote your signatures, but the fact of the matter is that nobody in this thread has attempted to specify and point out that the world is more complex than "LOL CASTRO" except for willardhaven. You would prefer to get your internet jollies by attacking me instead of asking the OP what in the world he's saying Watson "can't be serious" about, or pointing out that it's an oversimplistic conclusion to come to.

You can have your laffs - but you'll know, just like I do, that you're doing so because you're incapable of a deeper conversation.

Watson praises the Cuban Revolution, Che Guevara, Castro, and Cuba's health care system. Let's break this down.
1. Cuban Revolution:
The Cuban Revolution kicked out one horrible leader, and put in another. Sounds a bit like our elections, minus the political executions, forced labors camps, and other atrocities committed against Cuban citizens. Of course some of the idiots celebrated because "HE'S MY DICTATOR YEA!"
2. Che:
I don't get why anyone likes this guy or would praise him, considering that the opposition to him and Fidel was just killed. Also, he was one of the people behind the idea to put ICBMs in Cuba, and almost start a nuclear war. Also, he wanted to nuke us, and start a global thermonuclear war. Real great guy.
3. Castro:
Another great one. Like many dictators, he killed his own citizens and committed atrocities against them. Was he as bad as Hitler? No. Did he do some really fucked up things? Yes.
4. Cuban health care system:
Yeah, it's real great. Not only have they starved people to death, much like in North Korea, but unless you are an elite, or rich in Cuba, good luck getting any good care.
So, yeah, Watson, if you think that's something worth praising, wow.
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#19 UncleBob

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 05:22 PM

As far as the health care is concerned from what I've read Cuba does infact have good health-care.


[...]Cuba is only two ranks behind the U.S. according to the WHO. I think that's pretty telling.


So, Cuba has worse health care than the US, but is "good". So what's with the need to reform the US system then? :)
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#20 dmaul1114

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 05:47 PM

The Cuba system is "good" in that it's more universal and affordable. It ranks lower as obviously they don't have the resources to have the quality of doctors, specialists, equipment etc. throught the country like the US does.

If the had those resources, they'd rank well above the US most likely, like many European countries etc.

Essentially Cuba has good health care coverage, but the quality of care provided isn't as good due to the economics of the country, embargoes etc. etc.

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#21 Don Chubo

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 05:51 PM

Do we really have to spell out how Cuba has suffered under Castro? Is anyone here either that uninformed or dishonest...or deluded?

As far as the WHO rankings go, they aren't entirely objective, IMO. I've see pictures and heard stories about how horrid the care is in Cuba if you're not on the "official tour".
From the Book of Deluded and/or Ridiculous, Vol. 1, page 1, paragraph 1:

Oh, any ideology has people who speak quite crassly or aren't intellectually deep. Us on the left are proud of the fact that, despite knowing we have them, we don't elect them to office or treat them as vanguards of a movement.


Should we start with Biden, Hank Johnson, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Tony Wiener and work from there? Dumbass.

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#22 UncleBob

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 05:56 PM

The Cuba system is "good" in that it's more universal and affordable. It ranks lower as obviously they don't have the resources to have the quality of doctors, specialists, equipment etc. throught the country like the US does.

If the had those resources, they'd rank well above the US most likely, like many European countries etc.

Essentially Cuba has good health care coverage, but the quality of care provided isn't as good due to the economics of the country, embargoes etc. etc.


So, essentially, what you're saying is that the "ranking" of a country's heath care system is a complex thing... something far beyond a simple number?

Does this mean everyone can stop throwing out "We're number #32 - We suck" now?
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#23 mykevermin

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 06:01 PM

As far as the WHO rankings go, they aren't entirely objective, IMO.


Do tell. Can you back this up without going "stossel" on us?
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#24 Don Chubo

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 06:11 PM

You'll have to "nuance" this - what do you mean by going "Stossel"?
From the Book of Deluded and/or Ridiculous, Vol. 1, page 1, paragraph 1:

Oh, any ideology has people who speak quite crassly or aren't intellectually deep. Us on the left are proud of the fact that, despite knowing we have them, we don't elect them to office or treat them as vanguards of a movement.


Should we start with Biden, Hank Johnson, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Tony Wiener and work from there? Dumbass.

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Don't piss Mooch off.

#25 mykevermin

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 06:17 PM

http://www.realclear..._on_whos_h.html

You know what I meant.
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#26 Don Chubo

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 06:36 PM

Since that's the first time I've seen that article, I really didn't. Thanks for the link.

I'm with what he says about the "fairness" portion of the rating. I've seen criticism of that elsewhere - I seem to remember something from the Cato Institute last year but I can't recall who wrote it.
From the Book of Deluded and/or Ridiculous, Vol. 1, page 1, paragraph 1:

Oh, any ideology has people who speak quite crassly or aren't intellectually deep. Us on the left are proud of the fact that, despite knowing we have them, we don't elect them to office or treat them as vanguards of a movement.


Should we start with Biden, Hank Johnson, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Tony Wiener and work from there? Dumbass.

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Don't piss Mooch off.

#27 mykevermin

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 06:43 PM

Why is "fairness" a problem - that is, nonobjective - measure?

If access to healthcare is limited, what good is it if it's of high quality?
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#28 KingBroly

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 06:44 PM

Statistics...easy manipulation...blah blah blah
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#29 Don Chubo

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 07:10 PM

That's not what I'm talking about - I mean the "fairness factor" rating, which is used for something like 25% of the formula to figure out the score. The "fairness factor" not only penalizes due to people not being able to afford healthcare, but it also penalizes because some are not likely to have the same problem.
From the Book of Deluded and/or Ridiculous, Vol. 1, page 1, paragraph 1:

Oh, any ideology has people who speak quite crassly or aren't intellectually deep. Us on the left are proud of the fact that, despite knowing we have them, we don't elect them to office or treat them as vanguards of a movement.


Should we start with Biden, Hank Johnson, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Tony Wiener and work from there? Dumbass.

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#30 mykevermin

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 07:39 PM

it also penalizes because some are not likely to have the same problem.


?
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