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Official (2014-2015) College Football Thread Florida State#1


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#1771 lordopus99

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 05:52 PM

Step Right Up, Step Right Up. It's Yours For The Taking...

Which one of the B10 teams is going to take that conference...
NW dropped Nebraska
Iowa dropped Michigan

Up next...
@Penn St/Nebraska
Wisconsin/@Minn
Mich St/@Iowa
Mich/@Illinois

#1772 dmaul1114

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 10:47 PM

http://www.sltrib.co...erence.html.csp

BYU is in talks with the Big East.

Big East could actually end up ok as an East-West Conference if Boise and BYU both join along with the other rumored to be invited teams (Houston, SMU, Air Force, Navy, UCF) and they don't lose any more of the 5 remaining teams.

That would probably keep an autobid, as with that and the other 5 BCS leagues you'd have all the strong mid majors from recent years in AQ leagues which would shut up a lot of complaining.

Well, other than Hawai'i, but they've struggled since Jones left and are never going to be in a power league due to the travel.

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#1773 blindinglights

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 11:30 PM

I'm sure the mid-major issue won't go away. Once the Boises and TCUs are gone, other teams will eventually emerge as strong programs in those conferences. Maybe we'll see Nevada start putting together 11+ win seasons on a regular basis.

#1774 irideabike

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:39 PM

if this stupid scandal takes down paterno I'm gonna be pissed.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#1775 62t

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:08 PM

if this stupid scandal takes down paterno I'm gonna be pissed.


Disagree. He should not be allow to coach any more if this is true.

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#1776 dmaul1114

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:13 PM

Agreed. I'd hardly call covering up a child molestation in the locker room a "stupid scandal."

Granted he may not have been involved with the cover up since he says he told the AD about it. But even if that's true he knew nothing was done about it and should have went to someone else to report the crime.

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#1777 pitfallharry219

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:19 PM

Fun fact: Jerry Sandusky's autobiography was titled "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story".

#1778 blindinglights

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:00 PM

I'm pretty appalled at the Penn State scandal, but I'm hesitant to jump on the "Fire Paterno" wagon before we start hearing some testimonies in the trial. This whole thing is awful, but I want to hear the full set of details from the parties involved before I allow what I think about a living legend like Paterno to be tainted.

Furthermore, I'm of the understanding that the graduate assistant who witnessed the abuse went on to work there at the university for years afterwards and never spoke up. I've also read about janitors who witnessed abuse also didn't speak up in fear of losing their jobs. That being the case, it's apparent to me that Paterno is taking a lot of the heat as the face of the program when in reality, the failure to meet the moral obligations of society seems to weigh on the shoulders of multiple people.

#1779 Rocko

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:12 PM

I think it will be absolutely absurd if Paterno is fired and his legacy tainted because of this.

#1780 dothog

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:14 PM

I think it will be absolutely absurd if Paterno is fired and his legacy tainted because of this.


Really?

Prepare for absurdity in 3... 2... 1...
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#1781 Magus8472

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 10:54 PM

I think it will be absolutely absurd if Paterno is fired and his legacy tainted because of this.


I'd love to hear your opinion on the Catholic Church, then.
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#1782 irideabike

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:47 PM

Granted he may not have been involved with the cover up since he says he told the AD about it. But even if that's true he knew nothing was done about it and should have went to someone else to report the crime.

From what we know right now he SAW NOTHING. The only thing he heard was from the grad student, and reported what he heard up the chain of command, following protocol. You can't just go to the police with a second hand story about something the grad student thought he saw, with no name of the kid, no video/proof of what you were telling them. If anything, this lands on the grad student for being a moron and not calling the police, and wtf, why didn't he stop it when he saw it? That makes no sense.

But to bring Paterno down in this for not reporting what are essentially rumors to the police? That is absolutely insane.

I'd love to hear your opinion on the Catholic Church, then.

Disgusting. Sick. Unrepentant. Predatory.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#1783 irideabike

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:20 PM

Also, Gary Schultz oversaw the Penn State police department. Argh.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#1784 dmaul1114

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:06 PM

http://espn.go.com/c...tire-end-season

Paterno to retire at season's end.

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#1785 dothog

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:57 PM

But to bring Paterno down in this for not reporting what are essentially rumors to the police? That is absolutely insane.

It goes beyond that. It's not insane at all.

He and every other administrator at PSU knew Sandusky was pedo, or at least was under suspicion of being a pedo. They continued to allow him to use PSU facilities for visits with kids, and worse yet he did it unchecked.

The report that he got from the GA (now his WR coach) wasn't "Hey, I saw Sandusky acting weird around a kid." It was "I heard what sounded like sex noises in the shower and I went there and I saw Sandusky ass fucking a 10 year old kid." Look in the 25 page grand jury report that was made available.

The victim count is now up to as many as 20. If you don't think JoePa was complicit in this, and that he and the PSU administration didn't look the other way, you're the insane one in this. They should all lose their jobs at a minimum. They're a disgrace to PSU, college athletics, and humanity in general.
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#1786 irideabike

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:09 PM

why didn't the GA stop it?
why didn't the GA report it to the police?
why didn't the GA remove the child from the situation instead of telling Paterno?
why didn't the head of Penn State's police department investigate it?
why didn't the AD take away his office?
why didn't the AD remove his access to the facilities?

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#1787 irideabike

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:26 PM

The report that he got from the GA (now his WR coach) wasn't "Hey, I saw Sandusky acting weird around a kid." It was "I heard what sounded like sex noises in the shower and I went there and I saw Sandusky ass ing a 10 year old kid." Look in the 25 page grand jury report that was made available.

Have you read the report? Read it again. The grad assistant saw a little kid being RAPED and left because he was distraught? He didn absolutely nothing to stop what was happening, and then went to his office and called his dad, not 911 or the campus police? So then a day later he reports what happened to Paterno, not the police or campus police. Paterno then tells his AD, superior, what happened in order for him to take control of the situation, seeing as Paterno is a coach, who teaches kids how to pass, run the ball, or tackle, and isn't a police officer. The AD then reports it to Gary Schultz, then head of the campus PD, and they had a meeting with the GA. This is where the whole thing snowballs out of control.

What did you want Paterno to do, go Rambo in the locker room? This doesn't fall on Paterno. This falls on the GA. He should have done something to stop it. He should have called the police. He should have done SOMETHING other then tell a FOOTBALL COACH that he saw someone getting raped.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#1788 62t

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:12 PM

Legally Paterno did what he was suppose to do. Morally he should have follow up when he realized that the school wasn't doing anything.

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#1789 dothog

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:23 PM

What did you want Paterno to do, go Rambo in the locker room? This doesn't fall on Paterno. This falls on the GA. He should have done something to stop it. He should have called the police. He should have done SOMETHING other then tell a FOOTBALL COACH that he saw someone getting raped.


I'm not just picking on JoePa. They should all be let go. But you keep coming back to how "insane" it is for JoePa to get what's coming to him.

Sure, he's an HC, but let's not pretend JoePa is just another HC, he runs the show at PSU and answers to nobody. He's one of many who allowed Sandusky to hang around PSU facilities as recently as a week ago. And on many of those occasions Sandusky had a kid in tow. They've known since at least 1998 that the guy was a pedo, and it's been on the record since 2002 that he suspected of being a pedo.

And yet he's welcomed back to campus, and everybody, JoePa included, looked the other way. Sure, he reported the GA's findings to the AD, good for him. He's still an amoral enabler. He's still the half-senile ballcoach who just last night asked students to "pray for the victims or whatever they call them" and then led the crowd in a pep rally cheer. WTF.

None of this raises the fact that when JoePa was asked about Sandusky when this first broke before last weekend, he was "shocked" by the news. Even though he admitted to the grand jury in 2002 that he knew the GA's story in full. So which is it, are you shocked that he's a pedo or is this something you'd known about for at least 10 years?

If JoePa's case is that he never believed that Sandusky was a pedo (as reported to him by the GA), then why would you later hire that same GA? Why would you keep him on staff -- to this day -- as a WR coach? Maybe because you suddenly forgot the guy you hired falsely accused your ex-DC of being a pedo (aka the senility angle)? Or maybe because you're hiding something?

You have no cause for outrage as far as JoePa's legacy goes. It's bullshit. It no longer matters. Get real.

EDIT: Sports law writer at SI.com talks about legal implications of merely following protocol when it comes to children being molested.

EDIT2: And now apparently there are rumors that the organization Sandusky founded for kids may have been harboring other child molestors.

Edited by dothog, 09 November 2011 - 06:43 PM.

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#1790 62t

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:32 PM

Plus JoePa built his whole reputation on "doing the right thing," so yea he should have done a lot more

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#1791 irideabike

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:02 PM

Legally Paterno did what he was suppose to do. Morally he should have follow up when he realized that the school wasn't doing anything.

How would he know that they weren't doing anything. He isn't a cop, it isn't his job to call and check up on them to make sure they were investigating everything. He would have no idea what they were doing with the investigation, seeing as they wouldn't even need to question him since he was not there and wasn't relevant to any investigation. Curley told the GA that Sandusky's keys had been taken away and that things were being taken care of. Paterno had no reason to question any of it.

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#1792 dothog

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:32 PM

You're right, JoePa's blameless. I suppose he just needs to sit tight while the AD, President, and Board of Trustees sort everything out. No cause here to resign and express his regret at not having done more, or anything.

No wait, that's insane. He had every reason to question what was going inside of his program and effectively *his* facilities. He does things the right way. And we're not talking about acting on the suspicion that players are copping free shoes or tatoos -- we're talking about a key figure in your program supposedly using your facilities as a place to rape kids for at least 15 years, perhaps as many as 25 or 30.

How do you not follow up on that, how do you just report that to the AD and move along? I'm not just asking it of JoePa, either, it goes up and down the chain of command. They all deserve all the shame they get out of this.

JoePa's not the victim here. His legacy isn't the victim. The raped kids are the victims. The entire situation is outrageous and sad, but in all of this, absolutely NONE of your outrage or sadness should be over the state of JoePa's career.
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#1793 dragonjud

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:54 PM

How would he know that they weren't doing anything. He isn't a cop, it isn't his job to call and check up on them to make sure they were investigating everything. He would have no idea what they were doing with the investigation, seeing as they wouldn't even need to question him since he was not there and wasn't relevant to any investigation. Curley told the GA that Sandusky's keys had been taken away and that things were being taken care of. Paterno had no reason to question any of it.


Let it go. You're wrong. Imagine your own son in that bathroom with Sandusky.
Once you're done imagining that horrible image. Now, think, if I was an adult with any human decency would I not do everything possible to never allow that to happen again?
Forget who saw what. He knew about it, and folks like Sandusky do not hide their tendencies. So, I'm certain that in many other ocassions he probably saw strange behavior (just by being around the guy)...and he did nothing else about it.

They should all be fired (president, any staff members that knew about it, Joe Pa). And any adult that tried to cover it up should be held liable.

Yes, there's really one monster in this story, but those that fed the monster or allowed him to keep being a predator should face some consequence.


#1794 soulvengeance

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:00 PM

I love Penn State, and I love Joe Paterno, but the people coming out to defend him are crazy. Everyone knows he has massive influence at Penn State, and for him to stand by and do nothing is a bit reprehensible, considering the typically stand up guy he is. He's doing the right thing by stepping down and apologizing, still a class act in my mind even with this scandal. My question is, why the hell didn't the grad assistant do anything?
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#1795 Nate Nanjo

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:03 PM

At this point Joe Paterno is getting hammered more about this than the grad assistant who actually witnessed the thing.

I think all of them should be held accountable including Paterno, but I think they are putting way to much on Paterno. I guess the man in his 70's at the time should have be more responsible then anyone else. Its probably wrong, but I think his health will start getting worse once he is gone from football either by getting fired or retiring.

Edited by Nate Nanjo, 09 November 2011 - 10:32 PM.


#1796 dmaul1114

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:43 PM

why didn't the GA stop it?
why didn't the GA report it to the police?
why didn't the GA remove the child from the situation instead of telling Paterno?
why didn't the head of Penn State's police department investigate it?
why didn't the AD take away his office?
why didn't the AD remove his access to the facilities?


I don't anyone thinks Joe Pa is primarily to blame.

He's just one of many people at blame in this case. Tons of people did the wrong thing by either not coming forward and going to the authorities to make sure the case was dealt, allowing Sandusky to continue to work around kids, or even actively trying to cover the case up.

Everyone involved should lose their jobs at Penn State over it IMO.

Besides, from a football standpoint I don't see why fans car. Joepa hasn't been worth a damn in years and should have retired long ago anyway. So just view it as an opporunity to move forward with a real coach rather than a fossilized figurehead of a coach a decade or two past being a great coach.

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#1797 dothog

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:11 PM

My question is, why the hell didn't the grad assistant do anything?


The grad assistant in question was Mike McQueary, current assistant coach for Penn State. That incident may have made him more indispensable than your typical GA.

I think all of them should be held accountable including Paterno, but I think they are putting way to much on Paterno.


Well, yes and no. Yes because they're all accountable, No because he's built PSU up. He's the Man with the Plan in this, and he's made a point of preaching "do the right thing" to everyone.

It's hard for me to feel sorry for JoePa -- or his legacy, or PSU in the near term -- when they're sexually abused kids involved. I have a feeling most if not all of JoePa's defenders would tone it down if they had any experience with sexually abused children and the adults they become, how that abuse haunts them forever.
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#1798 soulvengeance

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:51 AM

I don't anyone thinks Joe Pa is primarily to blame.

He's just one of many people at blame in this case. Tons of people did the wrong thing by either not coming forward and going to the authorities to make sure the case was dealt, allowing Sandusky to continue to work around kids, or even actively trying to cover the case up.

Everyone involved should lose their jobs at Penn State over it IMO.

Besides, from a football standpoint I don't see why fans car. Joepa hasn't been worth a damn in years and should have retired long ago anyway. So just view it as an opporunity to move forward with a real coach rather than a fossilized figurehead of a coach a decade or two past being a great coach.


Because you don't live in PA, you don't understand, he is an icon there.
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#1799 dmaul1114

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:56 AM

I understand he's an icon. I also think it's silly to want to keep a coach just for that reason.

WVU had Nehlen stay for 21 years in football and Catlett for 22 or 23 in basketball. Both were local icons--though not on the level Joe Pa obviously. So I have first hand experience with my teams keeping coaches past their primes and having the program decline.

If I was a PSU fan, I'd hate the tarnish this is putting on his legacy, but be hopeful that they can hire a younger coach who can get them back to competing for national titles.

As a WVU fan, I hope they Fuck up the hire and fall off the map! :D

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#1800 soulvengeance

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:57 AM

I understand he's an icon. I also think it's silly to want to keep a coach just for that reason.

WVU had Nehlen stay for 21 years in football and Catlett for 22 or 23 in basketball. Both were local icons--though not on the level Joe Pa obviously. So I have first hand experience with my teams keeping coaches past their primes and having the program decline.

If I was a PSU fan, I'd hate the tarnish this is putting on his legacy, but be hopeful that they can hire a younger coach who can get them back to competing for national titles.

As a WVU fan, I hope they Fuck up the hire and fall off the map! :D


Haha, well, I dunno if they'll ever compete for a national title, mainly because of Ohio State, but they've been somewhat competitive for a little while, so the coaching staff is strong.
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