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Official (2014-2015) College Football Thread Florida State#1


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#2731 dmaul1114

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:31 PM

I hope they try and the FBS gets brought down in a massive antitrust lawsuit.


Would never happen. With 64 teams plenty are included and they can just build in some near impossible way for outside teams to make the playoffs to appease that issue. Like this top 16 and ranked higher than an AQ conference champ rule the BCS has that almost never matters.

With the playoff teams being selected by a committee, the non-majors will never make it in anyway. They'll just be eligible for the "access bowls" as they're calling the major bowls taht aren't part of the playoffs in a given year.

#2732 lordopus99

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

People keep saying that NIU lost to Iowa. Big deal, it was the first game of the season and Jordan lynchs first ever game as starting quarterback. NIU went and won 12 straight after that. Fyi Florida State has 2 losses, not one. And I love how people all seem to have crystal balls and know exactly how the games are going to play out.


1 of those losses is to UF who is the number 3 team in the BCS who knocked off four top 10 teams. NC State was a fluke and also away. The Orange Bowl is in Florida.

PS Army wasn't week 1. Kent St was brutally beaten by 2-10 Kentucky... In other words overrated to begin with. NIU didnt beat any school of worth like the Boise St, TCU, and Utah teams that came before them. Herbstreit said it best on the BCS selection show "NIU inclusion in the BCS is a joke."

#2733 Genocidal

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:59 PM

N Illinois beat Army 41 - 40
Army beat Boston College 34 - 31
Boston College beat Maryland 20 - 17
Maryland beat Virginia 27 - 20
Virginia beat NC State 33 - 6
NC State beat Florida St 17 - 16

I can make dumb arguments too.
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#2734 Genocidal

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:02 PM

For the more reasonable people here: Look, my argument isn't that NIU is one of the ten best teams in FBS. It's that there is no reason for ESPN (or any sports fan/analyst) to be so unprofessional and negative against NIU (lost to third worst in the B1G) getting a bid but being perfectly ok with Wisconsin (8-5) and Louisville (lost to UConn, next to last in Big East) making their bowls.

Let's just get it over with and go to an 8 team playoff, top 8 ranked conference champions get in (effectively making it a 16 team playoff). Reserve one spot for a high ranking independent. Best way to have a high ranking? Schedule tough OOC opponents -- if the postseason is based strictly on winning your conference then teams can take more risks in scheduling. The power teams want to complain? They're more than welcome to move to a mid-major conference and give up their eight figure TV deal. If they want the big money they can earn it on the field through regular season play.
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#2735 kill3r7

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

For the more reasonable people here: Look, my argument isn't that NIU is one of the ten best teams in FBS. It's that there is no reason for ESPN (or any sports fan/analyst) to be so unprofessional and negative against NIU (lost to third worst in the B1G) getting a bid but being perfectly ok with Wisconsin (8-5) and Louisville (lost to UConn, next to last in Big East) making their bowls.

Let's just get it over with and go to an 8 team playoff, top 8 ranked conference champions get in (effectively making it a 16 team playoff). Reserve one spot for a high ranking independent. Best way to have a high ranking? Schedule tough OOC opponents -- if the postseason is based strictly on winning your conference then teams can take more risks in scheduling. The power teams want to complain? They're more than welcome to move to a mid-major conference and give up their eight figure TV deal. If they want the big money they can earn it on the field through regular season play.



What you are saying would make sense if college sports were about fairness (an even playing field) but that's never been the case. The "Big" teams always have an advantage in recruiting, facilities, alumni donations and most importantly perception. Fairness never enters the equation. The top 4 (or 5 if you want to include the ACC) conferences have all the power and money. Why would they share any of it? They don't have to and they won't. The at large bid was created as a way to allow for ND to get into a BCS bowl game if they had more than 1 loss and to remove any sense of impropriety. At the end of the day college sports (football/basketball) is all about making money. The TV networks want the sexy matchups and the bowls themselves want high attendance numbers.
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#2736 dmaul1114

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

You can't let all 8 conference champs in. The Sun Belt, MAC, WAC an what's left of the MWC Just don't belong at the top tier.

Putting all or some of those teams automatically in an 8 or even 16 team playoff makes the playoff field terribly unbalanced with some major conference champs getting basically a bye while others have tough games against major conference teams.

It works in basketballs where there's a huge field and its easier for the small schools to compete. Just doesn't work in football. They need to get the top tier down to the best 60-80 programs and come up with an 8 team playoff among those teams.

I do agree that Wisconsin and Louisville are equally bad BCS picks this year and I've always said auto bids should come with requirements of being ranked in the top 12 or 16 or something.

Sucks having those two and NIU in BCS games with teams like A&M, Oklahoma and Georgia in lesser bowls. Would love to see those teams playing UF, FSU, an Stanford instead.

Excuse any typos. Posting from phone during lunch.

Edited by dmaul1114, 03 December 2012 - 07:27 PM.


#2737 Genocidal

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

You can't let all 8 conference champs in. The Sun Belt, MAC, WAC an what's left of the MWC Just don't belong at the top tier.

Putting all or some of those teams automatically in an 8 or even 16 team playoff makes the playoff field terribly unbalanced with some major conference champs getting basically a bye while others have tough games against major conference teams.

It works in basketballs where there's a huge field and its easier for the small schools to compete. Just doesn't work in football. They need to get the top tier down to the best 60-80 programs and come up with an 8 team playoff among those teams.

Excuse any typos. Posting from phone during lunch.


  • 11 conferences this year. WAC is gone, leaving 10 next year. That means 2-3 conferences would be left out each year (probably C-USA and Sun Belt)
  • CBS Sports had the MAC ranked ahead of the Big East and ACC in their last conference power rankings of the year: http://www.cbssports...ids-on-the-line

So your argument is that the best teams have an easier road to the championship, and therefore the system should be dismissed? This is how a playoff works in every sport. If you want an easy road in the playoffs, schedule strong competition and win in the regular season.

There is no way that FBS is dropping nearly half their members. I'm not sure why you hate the non-AQs so much but they aren't going anywhere and in the past have proved they can "hang with the big boys".
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#2738 pitfallharry219

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:41 PM

In my perfect world, there would be 4 16-team conferences with a 12 team playoff. The 4 conference champs get first round byes, and then there are 8 at-large spots.

#2739 kill3r7

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:52 PM

  • 11 conferences this year. WAC is gone, leaving 10 next year. That means 2-3 conferences would be left out each year (probably C-USA and Sun Belt)
  • CBS Sports had the MAC ranked ahead of the Big East and ACC in their last conference power rankings of the year: http://www.cbssports...ids-on-the-line

So your argument is that the best teams have an easier road to the championship, and therefore the system should be dismissed? This is how a playoff works in every sport. If you want an easy road in the playoffs, schedule strong competition and win in the regular season.

There is no way that FBS is dropping nearly half their members. I'm not sure why you hate the non-AQs so much but they aren't going anywhere and in the past have proved they can "hang with the big boys".


Under the new playoff system the powers to be have already dropped all the "little" guys, which is why I don't understand why so many people are in love with it. As of right now, there is almost no way for a non-AQ to make it into the 4 team playoff. They would need to have an all-time great season (undefeated) to even get a sniff at the new playoffs as a non-AQ and that's assuming that ND doesn't take up the one at large spot. Even if they expand to 8 or 16 teams, they are not going to add more than one additional at large spot.
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#2740 dmaul1114

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

There is no way that FBS is dropping nearly half their members. I'm not sure why you hate the non-AQs so much but they aren't going anywhere and in the past have proved they can "hang with the big boys".


I don't hate them. The vast majority just shouldn't be at the top level as they will never sniff a championship. I have no interest in watching a team like NIU play a team like FSU. I'd rather never watch sports again than waste 3 1/2 hours of my life on that game.

Boise, TCU and Utah (and to a lesser extent--and more based on the past--BYU) are the only teams outside current AQ leagues that have shown they can play with the big boys. Just get them all in the 4 or 5 power leagues when they create a new D1 and be done with it.

Fans of teams like NIU should be happier to have a new division where they can actually compete for a title. And fans like me can have playoffs full of big name, elite programs slugging in out.

I just don't care about the Cinderalla stories. I don't much care for the first couple days of the NCAA basketball tournament. Sure, there's an exciting upset or three, but for everyone of those there's several shitty little schools getting blown out by 30. Lucky to get 2 or 3 matchups of big name schools on the opening Thursday or Friday.

And in football that's just exacerbated even more as it's just impossible for the little schools to compete with the big boys they way someone like Butler can in basketball. They just don't have the money or prestige to get enough top talent. Vs. basketball where 1 or 2 star players with a solid supporting cast can make a run.

It's not feasible, but it would be neat if they could do something like they do in some of the European soccer leagues where teams that suck get relegated to a lower level and lower level teams can earn their way up.

Edited by dmaul1114, 03 December 2012 - 09:34 PM.


#2741 lordopus99

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

For the more reasonable people here: Look, my argument isn't that NIU is one of the ten best teams in FBS. It's that there is no reason for ESPN (or any sports fan/analyst) to be so unprofessional and negative against NIU (lost to third worst in the B1G) getting a bid but being perfectly ok with Wisconsin (8-5) and Louisville (lost to UConn, next to last in Big East) making their bowls.

So you are backtracking from your petty previous comment...
Again, NIU hasn't beaten a team worth half a damn. This is why ESPN and other news outlets are shitting on NIU. They would rather see FSU play a team that actually has a chance to win.

SOS Rankings (124 FBS teams) on teamrankings
NIU - #100
Wisconsin - #27
Louisville - #61

NIU is outclassed in every facet and you will see come Jan 1. But my guess is deep down you realize that they don't have a chance and won't watch.

#2742 Prepster

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:43 AM

So you are backtracking from your petty previous comment...
Again, NIU hasn't beaten a team worth half a damn. This is why ESPN and other news outlets are shitting on NIU. They would rather see FSU play a team that actually has a chance to win.

SOS Rankings (124 FBS teams) on teamrankings
NIU - #100
Wisconsin - #27
Louisville - #61

NIU is outclassed in every facet and you will see come Jan 1. But my guess is deep down you realize that they don't have a chance and won't watch.


ITS LIKE YOU ALREADY KNOW THE OUTCOME TO THE GAME :roll:. Get over it, NIU made it in.



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#2743 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

One thing we haven't discussed is how the playoff wouldn't have helped much this year.

Hell, the BCS may be less controversial as it's pretty clear that ND and Alabama are the top two and deserve to be there. Haven't heard any bitching about Bama getting in over one of the other 1 loss teams.

If they playoffs started this year, you'd have them, but then could only take two of the other 3 1 loss teams--Oregon, Florida, Kansas State. K State would probably be the one left out since they lost to the worst team of the bunch in Baylor in a blowout.

An 8 team playoff would be even more of a mess, since after those 5 you'd be trying to get another 3 from a bunch of two loss teams like Georgia, Stanford, LSU, Texas A&M (who beat Bama), South Carolina, Oklahoma and Florida State.

Moral of story, really need a 16 team playoff or a move to just having a clear cut system of conference champs with at larges to the highest ranked non-conference champs to cut any subjectivity out of it.

#2744 kill3r7

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

One thing we haven't discussed is how the playoff wouldn't have helped much this year.

Hell, the BCS may be less controversial as it's pretty clear that ND and Alabama are the top two and deserve to be there. Haven't heard any bitching about Bama getting in over one of the other 1 loss teams.

If they playoffs started this year, you'd have them, but then could only take two of the other 3 1 loss teams--Oregon, Florida, Kansas State. K State would probably be the one left out since they lost to the worst team of the bunch in Baylor in a blowout.

An 8 team playoff would be even more of a mess, since after those 5 you'd be trying to get another 3 from a bunch of two loss teams like Georgia, Stanford, LSU, Texas A&M (who beat Bama), South Carolina, Oklahoma and Florida State.

Moral of story, really need a 16 team playoff or a move to just having a clear cut system of conference champs with at larges to the highest ranked non-conference champs to cut any subjectivity out of it.


The 16 team playoff would require too many additional games.
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#2745 pitfallharry219

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

The 16 team playoff would require too many additional games.


Not if you take out early season games against scrub teams.

#2746 kill3r7

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

Not if you take out early season games against scrub teams.


Sure I guess it could work if they could cut the regular season down to 10 games (8 conference games and 2 OoC opponents) but at the end of the day someone who's deserving will always be left out.
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#2747 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

BS excuse.

The lower divisions, where teams area made up mostly of true student athletes who don't have delusions of making the NFL, do a 16 game playoff with no problems.

Just it back the regular season a game or two if needed.

#2748 Genocidal

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

D2 and D3 are 10 game seasons, looks like FCS is an 11 game season. 10 + CCG, cut to top 16 (conf champs + 6 at-large) would be feasible and give teams at most 15 games. Good luck getting teams to drop any OOC rivalries they may have though.
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#2749 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:40 PM

I don't think we'll see so much holding on to rivalries if not feasible. ND will still want to play their rivals, teams like FSU and UF will still play. They should just put a rule against playing lower division teams. Get rid of that cupcake game most teams play. No one wants to watch that crap anyway.

A lot of rivalries have already died due to realignment anyway. WVU hasn't played Penn State since they went to the Big 10, hasn't played VT since they went to the ACC (other than in the first year they were there). They don't have Pitt scheduled at all, and the Backyard Brawl is one of the oldest rivalries in the country. The game is simply changing and lots of traditions will die off including rivalries, importance/prestige of bowls after the playoff expands etc.

#2750 kill3r7

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:47 PM

D2 and D3 are 10 game seasons, looks like FCS is an 11 game season. 10 + CCG, cut to top 16 (conf champs + 6 at-large) would be feasible and give teams at most 15 games. Good luck getting teams to drop any OOC rivalries they may have though.


I'm a proponent of the underdog (and have been throughout this thread) but there is no way in hell that any of the smaller conference champs should or would get an AQ bid in a 16 team playoff. If you are going to have a 16 team playoff the point is to pit the best teams in the country against each other. The smaller schools' SOS just isn't up to par. So, if they want to partake in the playoffs, they'll have to earn an at large bid.
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#2751 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

Yep. At most you'd have the 4 or 5 (if ACC survives) power conferences getting auto bids for their champs. The rest would be autobids in an 8 or 16 team playoff.

And those would mostly go to power conference teams, because as you note the smaller teams usually don't have the SoS to warrant inclusion. And that would worsen if we go down to an 11 game season as some games between power conference and mid-major teams would be getting cut.

#2752 Genocidal

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:04 PM

Then in short an 11 game season is not feasible.
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#2753 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

It is once they tell the smaller conferences to Fuck off and form a new higher division.

Still plenty of money there for the smaller teams in the bowl system that will take those champs and the power conference teams that don't make the playoffs.

#2754 Genocidal

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

:rofl: Yea ok. You try and do that and see how well it goes over.
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#2755 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

I just don't see any anti-trust suit being won. At most they'll put in some near impossible to achieve way for non-majors to get an autobid to appease congress just like the BCS did. That will let a truly good team like Boise, Utah and TCU in when they're deserving, and let a team like NIU that played no one sneak in every once in a while when there's a down year, teams on probation like OSU this year etc. No need for auto bids to shitty leagues who's champs will get ass raped in the first round 95% of the time.

The mid majors are already more or less blocked from the BCS with how hard it is to make it in, shifting to a playoff doesn't change that equation. Just put some auto at large big rule in there to cover there bases and they can have a playoff with only major conference teams most years. Even more so if Boise and BYU end up in power conferences as it will be very rare that any remaining non-majors are playoff worthy anytime soon.

#2756 Genocidal

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

Anti-trust suits aside, explain to me how you convince half of the FBS to waive their rights to bowl games and once a year paydays against top teams by forming their own division (remember, in this scenario we're going to a 10/11 game season so teams won't be scheduling lower division opponents).
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#2757 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:24 PM

They don't waive anything. All FBS teams remain eligible for bowls if they don't make the playoff. The bowls will still want these teams as they know that no one other than fans of the little podunk non-major teams gives a shit about attending those games or tuning in on TV.

And if the power leagues want to break away, the other leagues have no say other than trying anti-trust suits. If they wanted they could even leave the NCAA and form their own governing body, own set of rules etc.

I don't think that will happen, just saying this isn't something all FBS schools vote on or anything. The power leagues can get together and have their school presidents vote and do pretty much whatever they want. Then it's just up to the left out schools to file suit, and see what happens with the courts. As long as there's some path for non-majors to get into the playoff, nothing will happen as nothing has happened with the BCS that's set up the same way.

And it's really no different than pro sports leagues. It's not like any city can just start up a team and start playing in the NFL or MLB or NBA etc. and make millions. Hard to argue anti-trust when there are a bunch of schools or franchises in the mix.

#2758 Genocidal

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:32 PM

It's completely different from pro sports leagues because there have been explicit rulings stating that they are exempt from anti-trust laws while the NCAA has been ruled non-exempt.

They don't waive anything. All FBS teams remain eligible for bowls if they don't make the playoff. The bowls will still want these teams as they know that no one other than fans of the little podunk non-major teams gives a shit about attending those games or tuning in on TV.


If the teams form their own division like you propose, then they won't be FBS teams and won't be eligible for the same bowls. How many people watch, or even have a station that carries DI-AA football?
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#2759 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:40 PM

It's completely different from pro sports leagues because there have been explicit rulings stating that they are exempt from anti-trust laws while the NCAA has been ruled non-exempt.


And that would have to get tested in court. I think it would be ruled exempt. Especially if they keep some path for non-majors to earn a bid.

If the teams form their own division like you propose, then they won't be FBS teams and won't be eligible for the same bowls. How many people watch, or even have a station that carries DI-AA football?


The bowls would come along and keep affiliations with the new division. As you note, know one gives a Fuck about these piddly little schools other than people who went there because they couldn't get into or afford a big state school (people who went Ivy or to top private schools excepted obviously).

The bowls will want to keep affiliations with the new division as they know they can't survive otherwise. If they had to, the major bowls would end their affiliation with FBS (and the NCAA if the new division broke away) and join up with the new division.

And besides, it doesn't have to necessarily have to be a new division. Can just keep it like the BCS and only give auto bids to the power leagues and have a tough to achieve route for non-majors to get in.

It's already a defacto elite division with the way it's set up now. I'd prefer an officially new division just to reduce "who cares" games between majors and cupcakes in both the regular and post season. But it's not a necessity. All I really care about is the non-majors not having any kind of autobid for winning their shitty conference. I'm fine if they're in the same division, and can get a playoff bid if they're ranked above power conference champs etc.

#2760 kill3r7

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

It's completely different from pro sports leagues because there have been explicit rulings stating that they are exempt from anti-trust laws while the NCAA has been ruled non-exempt.



If the teams form their own division like you propose, then they won't be FBS teams and won't be eligible for the same bowls. How many people watch, or even have a station that carries DI-AA football?


You can count the number of successful anti-trust law suits filed in the last decade in a single hand. The government did not file a single (not one) antitrust lawsuit during the Bush era. Antitrust suits are not as easy as you think and there is little reward for the government. Also, there has been talk that the NCAA will move to become exempt under anti-trust laws since they have become a target of class action lawsuits. Either way they can't possibly eliminate the smaller schools from participating but at the same time they don't have to provide them with AQ bids.
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