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#2761 Genocidal

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

The bowls would come along and keep affiliations with the new division.

They wouldn't. There are 30-some bowl games, you keep 64 teams like you propose, and the math works out well to give out bowl bids to teams like Colorado and Illinois.

As you note, know one gives a Fuck about these piddly little schools other than people who went there because they couldn't get into or afford a big state school (people who went Ivy or to top private schools excepted obviously).

Maybe I'm starting to understand where your unfounded elitism comes into play. Major land grant schools are not hard to get into and have reasonably low tuition -- a quick search of local schools shows the difference between UAkron and tOSU to be less than $500. I think we can agree they're on complete opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to revenue sports.

There are plenty of reasons to not attend the larger school that have nothing to do with cost or accessibility. Using another local example, if you want to major in Polymer Science, you go to UAkron or you go to UMass. The traditional power conference schools are a non-factor. I'm sure there are plenty of other programs that I'm not familiar with.

All I really care about is the non-majors not having any kind of autobid for winning their shitty conference. I'm fine if they're in the same division, and can get a playoff bid if they're ranked above power conference champs etc.

Which... they were this year, and you were less than fine with.

I don't think you're a dumb guy; surely you can see that your proposal is a massive feedback loop that would keep those teams out even if they go undefeated ("But they didn't beat anybody!").

Hopefully NIU getting in will make some of the big boys that got left up get more riled up and push to get to four 16 team conferences and lock everyone else out of the playoff.

Oh. Well how about that. What you want already exists, it's called the NFL.
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#2762 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:05 PM

They wouldn't. There are 30-some bowl games, you keep 64 teams like you propose, and the math works out well to give out bowl bids to teams like Colorado and Illinois.


Of course not all bowls would survive. There are far too many now as is with only having to be 6-6 to be eligible. It's ridiculous and the post season was much more interesting back in the 80s when there weren't nearly as many bowls.

The major ones will stick around for the major teams that don't make the playoff and the best non-major teams. Bowls that currently just feature non-majors and 6 or 7 win major teams will probably die off.

Maybe I'm starting to understand where your unfounded elitism comes into play. Major land grant schools are not hard to get into and have reasonably low tuition -- a quick search of local schools shows the difference between UAkron and tOSU to be less than $500. I think we can agree they're on complete opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to revenue sports.

There are plenty of reasons to not attend the larger school that have nothing to do with cost or accessibility. Using another local example, if you want to major in Polymer Science, you go to UAkron or you go to UMass. The traditional power conference schools are a non-factor. I'm sure there are plenty of other programs that I'm not familiar with.


Just ranting about the sports stuff mostly. All that's true and I currently work in a good department in a very shitty ranked smaller university overall. I also started out one semester at a tiny school in undergrad and despised it and ended up at WVU for undergrad and Maryland for Masters and Ph D and wouldn't have it any other way. Better social environment, generally better faculty overall (though again their are good departments in lousy universities) do to having bigger budgets to pay faculty and fund research centers etc. While I'm happy with my current department for the most part, the university sucks and I'm looking for the right opportunity to move to an equal or better department in a larger and better university.

Which... they were this year, and you were less than fine with.


The current systems is too lenient. It should be a requirement to be ranked in the top 10 or top 12, not the top 16. The BCS should be getting the 10 best teams in the country. If a non-major is ranked as such, fine, let them in as they're only ranked that high if they played a tough schedule. NIU played no one, no one can argue that they're one of the 10 best teams--thus they shouldn't be there. And to be fair, neither should Wisconsin or Louisville. As I said before, autobids for conference champs shouldn't be set in stone and should also require some minimum ranking.

I don't think you're a dumb guy; surely you can see that your proposal is a massive feedback loop that would keep those teams out even if they go undefeated ("But they didn't beat anybody!").Oh. Well how about that. What you want already exists, it's called the NFL.


And it's a vastly superior product than college football. Especially for determining a true champion. College football doesn't offer much more than a set of glorified exhibition games.

I just never got much into the NFL as I grew up in a state with no pro sports teams where WVU was the idolized team. I've tried to get into the NFL more on several occasions, but just can't as there are no teams I really care much about one way or the other.

#2763 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:20 PM

Enough going in circles on that. Arguing over moot points as whatever the system a non-major will seldom make the playoffs.

In coaching news, Arkansas has hired Brett Bielema from Wisconsin.

http://espn.go.com/c...zorbacks-source

#2764 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:21 PM

He's all theirs. I live in Badger country, and very few of us will miss him.

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#2765 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

http://www.rantsport...-to-the-big-12/

FSU to Big 12 rumors picking up some steam again. Mostly from talk radio mentions though. Tampa stations in the link above, and was on a show called The Ticket on radio in the Dallas area as well apparently.

#2766 blindinglights

blindinglights

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

The 16 team playoff would require too many additional games.



For the teams that make it all the way to the championship, it would be a total of four extra games. They could do four games a week for the month of December and have the championship game after New Years like they already do. I think that's worth it considering it gives every single FBS team a shot to make it to the title game.

I also don't get the bitching about a champion from the lower conferences getting an auto bid. All of the power conferences will get their champions plus their 2nd and possibly 3rd best teams in with at-large bids depending on the rankings. So what if a 9-4 MAC champion gets an auto-bid? They just end up getting the most difficult path to a possible championship and the highest ranked teams should just take care of business.

I know there will always be someone who complains that it isn't fair enough, but I think a scenario where a 8-5 Sun Belt champion gets an auto-bid and a 10-2 SEC team who is the 4th best in the conference gets left out is a better problem to have than the huge messes we could potentially have with the four team playoff. Just wait until we have six or seven or more 1-loss teams all at the top and the selection committee has to pick four. It's definitely going to get worse before it gets better.
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#2767 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:50 PM

I'd personally prefer having no autobids.

Just use the BCS formula and take the top 4 or top 8 or top 16.

Does a better job of getting the best ___ number of teams, gives teams incentive to play strong out of conference schedules to get their SoS up etc.

Could get rid of conference championship games that way too, which would be another way to shorten the regular season for those concerned about the number of games.


As for my problem with crappy leagues getting autobids (if we have to have autobids at all), it's not the fairness thing for me. I just don't want their to be boring ass match ups I don't want to watch.

If we had an 8 team playoff this year of teams like ND, Bama, Oregon, KSU, UF, FSU, Texas A&M and Oklahoma there wouldn't be a dull match up. Going two sixteen gets a little dicier as you get some 3 or 4 loss teams. But still mostly good matchups if no auto bids. But if you have to throw in the MAC, Sun Belt, MWC, WAC etc. champs in their with auto bids, then you get a bunch of lousy games the first round. Teams that get matched up against them (rather than a real team) get an unfair advantage in the 2nd round as they'll be able to rest their starters after half time most likely, where as someone that had to play another power conference team probably won't have that luxury.

I don't have a problem with non-majors making it into a playoff. But don't give them auto bids for conference champions. Require them to be ranked in the top 10 or 12 or whatever to require them to have the SoS to warrant inclusion.

Edited by dmaul1114, 04 December 2012 - 09:01 PM.


#2768 blindinglights

blindinglights

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

Could get rid of conference championship games that way too, which would be another way to shorten the regular season for those concerned about the number of games.



How does that work in your 4 super conferences theory? Can't play a round robin with 16 teams, and with two divisions you could end up with two 12-0 teams if their paths didn't cross. Then what? They both claim to be co-champions of the conference and then meet for the first time in the playoff?
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#2769 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

How does that work in your 4 super conferences theory? Can't play a round robin with 16 teams, and with two divisions you could end up with two 12-0 teams if their paths didn't cross. Then what? They both claim to be co-champions of the conference and then meet for the first time in the playoff?


It just wouldn't matter. Conference championships would become moot if no autobid is attached. Conferences would just be scheduling arrangements basically.

But if the 4 super conference thing did happen, then I'd say just keep the auto bids around and keep the conference championship games.

I was just saying if that doesn't happen and the piddly conferences have to be in the mix, then just make it based on the top ___ teams in the final BCS type poll with no autobids. That will block out the lower conference teams most of the time and make conference championships meaningless. And halt any anti-trust suits since any team can make it if they win enough games and play a tough enough schedule.

#2770 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:06 PM

Looks like Gus Malzahn will be the next coach at Auburn. Was their OC during their 2010 championship run.

http://espn.go.com/c...rs-coaching-job

#2771 kill3r7

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

Looks like Gus Malzahn will be the next coach at Auburn. Was their OC during their 2010 championship run.

http://espn.go.com/c...rs-coaching-job


Terrible hire IMO, should have gone with Charlie Strong.
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#2772 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:58 AM

Strong is rumored to be the front runner at Tennessee. So maybe he turned them down.

#2773 kill3r7

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:25 AM

Here's a funny and bizarre video of Mazan's Wife she's a strange one.

#2774 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:27 AM

Temple coach, and former Florida OC, Steve Adazzio is the new head coach at Boston College.

http://espn.go.com/b...azio-next-coach

And Kent State's coach to Purdue:

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Kent State's Darrell Hazell accepts Purdue job sources told @ESPN. KSU team meeting set for Wednesday morning


Another reason the small conference teams just can't compete. They don't have the money or prestige to keep their coaches when the major conference teams come calling. Boise and TCU are very lucky to have held on to Peterson and Patterson as long as they have. Well, less luck on TCU's part since they're in a big conference now and pay him like $3.5 million.

Edited by dmaul1114, 05 December 2012 - 01:52 AM.


#2775 blindinglights

blindinglights

Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:33 AM

Strong is rumored to be the front runner at Tennessee. So maybe he turned them down.



Based on the Louisville AD's recent comments on paying Strong, I'm guessing they will try to match or do better than whatever offer he gets. So it might come down to if he wants to move or not.

#2776 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:24 PM

Yep. Hard to see him turning down a chance to got to the SEC though. Especially with all the rumors of the ACC getting picked apart (and few of them involving Louisville going to one of the 4 major leagues).

#2777 blindinglights

blindinglights

Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:15 PM

Honestly, I think some of these coaches let their competitive spirit cloud their decision making when the next opportunity comes knocking. It seems like in some cases they end up taking jobs at terrible football schools or schools with unrealistic expectations under the "I can win anywhere" mentality and don't think about how good a setup they might already have.

More money and more responsibility doesn't necessarily end up being better. All the new coaches should just ask their respective predecessors because all of those guys were "winners" too.
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#2778 kill3r7

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:26 PM

Honestly, I think some of these coaches let their competitive spirit cloud their decision making when the next opportunity comes knocking. It seems like in some cases they end up taking jobs at terrible football schools or schools with unrealistic expectations under the "I can win anywhere" mentality and don't think about how good a setup they might already have.

More money and more responsibility doesn't necessarily end up being better. All the new coaches should just ask their respective predecessors because all of those guys were "winners" too.


Very well said but at the end of the day it always comes down to $$$$$, fame and prestige.

#2779 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

For sure.

But coaches also want a chance to compete with championships. ACC teams already have a hard time making the title game or future playoff due to weak conference SoS--see FSU being behind all the other 1 loss teams and 3 or 4 two losses teams a few weeks ago before they lost to UF.

If more realignment happens--and it's almost inevitable--and the league loses their football powers like FSU, Clemson and VT--then it will be almost impossible for the leftovers like Louisville to play a tough enough schedule to make the playoff.

The ACC is likely going to be come pretty much the Big East as they just don't have the programs to get the $20+ million TV deals the other power leagues have and thus just can't keep their top programs from leaving. They'll end up left with just the lesser Big East teams they stole in recent years and teams no one wants like Wake, and have to add more Big East/CUSA leftovers to survive as a 2nd tier football league and strong basketball league.

So Strong would frankly be stupid to not go to Tennessee if offered. Bigger program with more support in the strongest conference. And it's a school that has one a BCS national title, albeit a while ago in the late 90s.

Why turn that down to stay at a 2nd or 3rd tier football program that's already in the weakest conference even if no more realignment happens? Even moreso when more realignment is inevitable and just a question of when rather than if.



Edit: Current rumor is that Tennessee has offered the job to Mike Gundy (Ok State) with Strong next in line if Gundy turns it down. Rumors the past few years say that Gundy doens't get along super well with the Ok State AD and doesn't like T. Boone Pickens being so involved in the program, so not inconceivable he could leave to get away from all of that.

Edited by dmaul1114, 05 December 2012 - 04:52 PM.


#2780 kill3r7

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

For sure.

But coaches also want a chance to compete with championships. ACC teams already have a hard time making the title game or future playoff due to weak conference SoS--see FSU being behind all the other 1 loss teams and 3 or 4 two losses teams a few weeks ago before they lost to UF.

If more realignment happens--and it's almost inevitable--and the league loses their football powers like FSU, Clemson and VT--then it will be almost impossible for the leftovers like Louisville to play a tough enough schedule to make the playoff.

The ACC is likely going to be come pretty much the Big East as they just don't have the programs to get the $20+ million TV deals the other power leagues have and thus just can't keep their top programs from leaving. They'll end up left with just the lesser Big East teams they stole in recent years and teams no one wants like Wake, and have to add more Big East/CUSA leftovers to survive as a 2nd tier football league and strong basketball league.

So Strong would frankly be stupid to not go to Tennessee if offered. Bigger program with more support in the strongest conference. And it's a school that has one a BCS national title, albeit a while ago in the late 90s.

Why turn that down to stay at a 2nd or 3rd tier football program that's already in the weakest conference even if no more realignment happens? Even moreso when more realignment is inevitable and just a question of when rather than if.



Edit: Current rumor is that Tennessee has offered the job to Mike Gundy (Ok State) with Strong next in line if Gundy turns it down. Rumors the past few years say that Gundy doens't get along super well with the Ok State AD and doesn't like T. Boone Pickens being so involved in the program, so not inconceivable he could leave to get away from all of that.


There is no doubt that UT is the better school. Their tradition and success speaks for itself, but it is worth noting that rebuilding in the SEC might be the toughest coaching job in the country. There are very few cupcakes and you need to hit the ground running to compete with UGA, UF or USCe not to mention having to face Alabama or LSU every other year and potentially having to face them in the championship game (if you are lucky enough to make it). That is a mighty tall task but if glory is what you're after, I can't think of a better conference to coach in then the SEC.
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#2781 blindinglights

blindinglights

Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

ACC teams already have a hard time making the title game or future playoff due to weak conference SoS--see FSU being behind all the other 1 loss teams and 3 or 4 two losses teams a few weeks ago before they lost to UF.



Things go in cycles. In 1998, the Big 12 was the strongest conference according to Sagarin. In 2007, they were 6th just ahead of the Mountain West. Fast forward to 2011, they're right back on top. We're 8 years removed from the ACC being Sagarin's highest ranked conference. While the ACC is definitely in a decline, there's no reason to believe that it is impossible for the league to restore its image assuming it can stay together.

The "look at FSU, behind 2-loss teams, ACC schedule will never get enough credit to get into the title game" argument completely ignores the fact that Florida State played two of the shittiest FCS out of conference opponents which demolished their schedule strength and that they lost to a 7-5 team. K-State lost to a 7-5 team and could have very well fallen behind 2-loss LSU if their computer rankings weren't so heavily padded.



The ACC is likely going to be come pretty much the Big East as they just don't have the programs to get the $20+ million TV deals the other power leagues have and thus just can't keep their top programs from leaving. They'll end up left with just the lesser Big East teams they stole in recent years and teams no one wants like Wake, and have to add more Big East/CUSA leftovers to survive as a 2nd tier football league and strong basketball league.



If the ACC leadership had made the right moves, they could have got the $20+ million deals. Unfortunately, the league officials screwed it all up with their terrible ESPN deal.

With the number of major media markets that the ACC footprint covers, there's no reason why they shouldn't have followed the Big 10's example and made their network so they could also print money.

The real problem is the mismanagement on the business side of things because more money equals better coaches, assistants, and facilities which equals better teams.
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#2782 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:58 PM

Yep. But it's too late to fix it now. I just don't see anything they can do to keep more teams from leaving, and likely in the near futures with all the FSU rumbling on sports radio etc. lately. Along with all the rumblings of the B1G wanting at least two more teams.

But it's not just mismanagement, they also just lack historically elite football programs. They have FSU and Miami, and the latter will likely be down for a while with sanctions from the Shapiro schedule. Then really only two solid second tier programs in Clemson and VT.

Beyond that, all other schools other than many GT are basketball first schools. Thus they just don't have much football product that national audiences give a shit about watching, and thus can't get the big TV dollars as they lack big name, "made for TV" marquee matchups.

They really messed up by riding their academic high horse and adding Pitt and Syracuse last year--two more basketball first schools that don't have the strongest fan support for football (especially Pitt who's attendance is terrible). They could have moved to sure up football then with teams like WVU and Louisville which have solid programs in both sports, rabid fan followings and would have helped up the TV dollars more due to the ratings both get on ESPN.

Anything they do now is too little too late. They're stuck with their TV deal while the other leagues keep upping there's. The info the B1G gave UMD estimated the per school pay out to be $43 million per school at the end of the range (think that was like 2018 or something)--up from $24 million per school currently.

But the ACC started all this mess back in 2004 by raiding the Big East, so they deserve all that they're getting now. I'm happy with WVU in the Big 12, but I'd prefer to go back to the original Big East, have it break away from the basketball only schools and expand as it was great being in a league with VT, Pitt and Miami. Awesome matchups in the Big 12--especially compared to the post 2004 Big Least--but not quite the same with no rivals in conference. I doubt future realignment fix that as I figure VT ends up in the SEC, and Pitt is probably stuck in the ACC/Big Least left over league. Maybe the B1G takes them if they go beyond 16 teams. They don't fit the SEC at all, and don't offer much to the Big 12 since WVU is considered in the Pittsburgh media market and probably has as many or more fans living in the Pittsburgh area as Pitt does (since there are no jobs in WV).

#2783 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:06 PM

Looks like Gundy is staying at Ok State, so Strong is probably on the clock for Tennessee.

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Mike Gundy remaining at Oklahoma State, sources told @espn. This was earlier reported by OSU sideline reporter @RAllenGoPokes

#2784 blindinglights

blindinglights

Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

Virginia Tech fan site, citing an unnamed but "credible" source who is "close to the program", states that offensive coordinator Bryan Stinespring is out, quarterbacks coach Mike O'Cain is out, offensive line coach Curt Newsome is out, and Shane Beamer will take over as coach of special teams. New offensive coordinator will supposedly be Tony Franklin, offensive coordinator at Louisiana Tech, who is a former teammate of Bud Foster, Tech's defensive coordinator. Announcements to be made following bowl game.

Sounds too good to be true, especially the Tony Franklin bit, but I can hope.
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#2785 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

Butch Jones (Cincy) is the new coach at Colorado. Mildly surprising as he turned down Purdue first--I'd think that was a better job than Colorado.

http://www.denverpos...nference-avoids

Edit: Looks like the Denver post may have been premature.

-Pete Thamel @SIPeteThamel: Just reached out to Butch Jones, who said any report of him taking the Colorado job is "absolutely false."

-Pat Forde ‏@YahooForde: I know of no resolution w Charlie Strong or Butch Jones yet. UT plane has come and gone from Louisville. Jones in Charlotte all day.


Word is that Jones is waiting to see if Strong leave's Louisville as he's rumored to be their top choice to replace him.

Edited by dmaul1114, 05 December 2012 - 11:21 PM.


#2786 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:50 AM

http://sportsillustr...sion/index.html

Looks like Strong is staying at Louisville. Pretty shocked, they must be throwing a ton of money at him.

Rumored elsewhere that Fedora of UNC will be UT's next target.

#2787 blindinglights

blindinglights

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:22 AM

Looks like Strong is staying at Louisville. Pretty shocked, they must be throwing a ton of money at him.



Really not that shocking:

http://www.cbssports...-charlie-strong

I'd heard Strong is one of the 10 highest-paid coaches in the country. I asked Jurich if that was true.

"It is," Jurich said. "And we'll make him No. 1 if we have to."

This is where I did something I never do. I asked Jurich to repeat what he just said, knowing full well he could change his answer. But the answer I heard -- We'll make him No. 1 if we have to -- didn't make sense. So, um, what did you say, Tom?

"I said we'll make him [number] one if we have to."


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#2788 dmaul1114

dmaul1114

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:30 AM

Just shocking that he'd turn down an SEC team to stay in the ACC, even if it was for money. ACC champ will never get in the four team playoff unless unbeaten even I they don't lose more teams. If they do end up losing more then they'll probably never get in period and would struggle to even make an right team one unless they change from a selection committee to auto kids for conference champs.

You can talk about things being cyclical, but the ACC has always sucked. FSU was elite and dominated it in the 90s. Since they hit a rough patch the league has been awful, especially in BCS games. Hard to argue for it being cyclical when the league has one what, two BCS games since it started in 1998?

#2789 kill3r7

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

Great job by Louisville. Charlie Strong is one of the best young coaches in college football. Glad to see Louisville realizes this as well. If he keeps winning, the big time offers will keep coming.

#2790 pitfallharry219

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:40 AM

Great job by Louisville. I truly believe Charlie Strong is one of the best young coaches in college football. He'll keep getting offers at big time programs.


Young? He's 52.