ECA Discussion Thread - WARNING: Some CAGs Who Cancelled Are Being Auto-Renewed

CheapyD

CheapyD

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Some condensed information from Strell:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7113507&postcount=543

How to Cancel Now​


[quote name='major morgan']I had mine set to not auto renew, but I was still able to login. I was also a part of the giant CAG box of cancellations.

You CAN cancel through the website immediately, if you wish.
1. Login to the website
2. Go to your profile and select membership status
3. Go through the steps, but be careful on the steps because step 3 says "Yes/No auto renew" and Step 5 says "Yes/No Cancel my membership now". Step 5 defaults to "No" so your membership will still be valid if you just click submit.

I just did this and after I terminated I was unable to log back in. I also got a cancellation email right way.

Now if people still end up being charged after this, then you should be angry.[/QUOTE]

4/23/10 UPDATE: Some CAGs have been renewed even though they received cancellation notification:
Click here to jump to this current discussion


[quote name='lilboo']fuck

I just got charged $19.99
I have an e-mail from Dec 18, 2009 still saved when my membership was canceled.

EVERYONE WHO CANCELED PLEASE CHECK. Ugh, sick of these cock sucking crooks!!!!!

Look for: Visa - ent. Consumer asso $19.99[/QUOTE]

As the original thread has gotten too unweildly, I've created this thread for general discussion on The ECA.

I'd like to remind our users to stay on topic, and to be respectful of CAG rules.

Latest Update: According to Hal Halpin, the ECA has received the CAG box of cancellations and they will be processed ASAP.
 
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I had just joined CAG to comment and they closed the old thread :'( Here was my post:

I'm a little late to the party here on CAG but I've been following your thread since day 1.

It has been very satisfying to read about everyone upset about all of this. I actually submitted the first message to Consumerist about this and am quoted and referenced a few times in their article. Just figured I'd finally get a CAG account and comment.

It's sad to see people buying into Hal's statements and I've argued with him in the forums before about false advertising. It's moot at this point but they still did have Amazon advertising when the codes were down. It was only for a week or so but they most definitely were there.

I've done some additional research and so far here is what I have concerning existing "benefits" still posted on his site:

Direct2Drive - should be 10% off but instead is an expired $5 off Borderlands code.

Tritton - new codes being "worked on" for months with no word if they ever will be back

Prima - code doesn't work, comes up invalid on their site

Buy.com - code is for new members only. Gypsyfly told me they were "fixing" this but is has been months

Maxmodz - code seems to be a scam. You never get a promo code box though the site claims it will eventually appear. I got all the way to the point where paypal sends them money and still no promo box. I would highly advise against using this site.

Maingear - should be canceled as per their CTO's statements but it still exists.

Cell Zenith - has no codes still. Again it has been months as far as I can remember

Gamepro - Link takes you to ordering page with the normal retail price

Fandango - for some reason they advertise this as a member discount but it is actually a Visa promo and has nothing whatsoever to do with the ECA.

I did find a couple working promos like ThinkGeek, IGN Insider and astroturf but for the most part none of their stuff works.

We have possibly won some battles but they continue to lie about their promos. And I don't buy it that these changes take time to do on the site. They claim they immediately removed the Amazon promo (even though they didn't) and they removed the PAX promo within a few hours of PA's post they wanted themselves removed. Heck they edit the TOS without issue all the time. There should be no excuse that these promos are still after months incorrect.
Click to expand...
 
I guess that's what happens when I stop following a thread because it moves too fast.

Would be nice if there's a second batch to get in on but I won't count on it.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Latest Update: According to Hal Halpin, the ECA has received the CAG box of cancellations and they will be processed ASAP.[/QUOTE]

Good to hear. I hope, at the very least, that they learn their lesson and learn to be more transparent (and perform actual consumer advocacy) in the future.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Latest Update: According to Hal Halpin, the ECA has received the CAG box of cancellations and they will be processed ASAP.[/QUOTE]
Excellent news. I know some people were doubting whether the ECA would accept the mass cancellations.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']I guess that's what happens when I stop following a thread because it moves too fast.

Would be nice if there's a second batch to get in on but I won't count on it.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you guys, you know, start a second batch?
 
[quote name='sefjwm']I had just joined CAG to comment and they closed the old thread :'( Here was my post:[/QUOTE]

Well the general conclusion I have come to is this... this situation was 1 of 2 possible outcomes... Either:

1) This was all a scam. This was a deliberate attempt by the ECA to draw in members, use outdated or unreal benefits to keep members, and change the TOS to maintain membership (as an example, I had checked the no auto-renew function, so I could make the decision after my 1 year based on finances and what I thought of the ECA). This was a deliberate attempt to scam gamers of their money. When discovered, they attempted to keep it hush hush by having forum mods close threads (or now, close the forum) and by refusing to comment until the heat was continually turned up and up again.

2) This was, as one commentator described it, "the perfect storm." They had no ill intent, but despite this, the steps they took were in the wrong direction and at the wrong time. The poor choices made by the ECA and their poor handling of a small problem, allowed it to snowball into the fiasco we see at the moment. This has led to members questioning their benefits, but more than that, questioning what the ECA actually even does. The situation, while not deliberate, became what it is through the arrogance of the ECA and/or their ignorance towards the situation, and how to properly address the concerns of the very group they claim to represent.

Either way, the situation does not bode well for the ECA. Either they were engaging in a scam, which fully justifies the desire for members to sever their ties with the organization, or they were utterly incompetent in keeping their own house in order, which again fully justifies the desire for members to sever their ties.

So no matter what the intent of the organization in this situation, its clear that many people have now begun to question the ECA as a whole, and now too feel justified in leaving that organization for good.
 
I'm pumped that the box got there. I was just telling a friend the whole story today and they laughed hard when I said that a box of letters had gotten sent there.
 
[quote name='Siterath']Well the general conclusion I have come to is this... this situation was 1 of 2 possible outcomes... Either:

1) This was all a scam. This was a deliberate attempt by the ECA to draw in members, use outdated or unreal benefits to keep members, and change the TOS to maintain membership (as an example, I had checked the no auto-renew function, so I could make the decision after my 1 year based on finances and what I thought of the ECA). This was a deliberate attempt to scam gamers of their money. When discovered, they attempted to keep it hush hush by having forum mods close threads (or now, close the forum) and by refusing to comment until the heat was continually turned up and up again.

2) This was, as one commentator described it, "the perfect storm." They had no ill intent, but despite this, the steps they took were in the wrong direction and at the wrong time. The poor choices made by the ECA and their poor handling of a small problem, allowed it to snowball into the fiasco we see at the moment. This has led to members questioning their benefits, but more than that, questioning what the ECA actually even does. The situation, while not deliberate, became what it is through the arrogance of the ECA and/or their ignorance towards the situation, and how to properly address the concerns of the very group they claim to represent.

Either way, the situation does not bode well for the ECA. Either they were engaging in a scam, which fully justifies the desire for members to sever their ties with the organization, or they were utterly incompetent in keeping their own house in order, which again fully justifies the desire for members to sever their ties.

So no matter what the intent of the organization in this situation, its clear that many people have now begun to question the ECA as a whole, and now too feel justified in leaving that organization for good.[/QUOTE]

/\ This. You pretty much summarized where we currently are, and our current hatred of the ECA.

The more I think of this, the more fumed I get. I need to play some more LittleBigPlanet or something...
 
By "CAG Box" does that mean the GoogleDoc file with all the names on it or is it something different. I signed the GoogleDoc cancellation petition so I hope thats what it was.
 
[quote name='Maestro']all I really want to know: can you do the cancellation process online yet or do you still have to write a letter?[/QUOTE]

You still have to write a letter.
 
[quote name='Maestro']all I really want to know: can you do the cancellation process online yet or do you still have to write a letter?[/QUOTE]

The ECA is currently "working" on an online solution. However, a simple re-uploading to a time when the auto-renewal function was present would immediately solve the issue.

Though I wouldn't count on seeing that button ever again. Giving their CONSUMERS a CHOICE...Is too much to ask.
 
[quote name='NJMane']By "CAG Box" does that mean the GoogleDoc file with all the names on it or is it something different. I signed the GoogleDoc cancellation petition so I hope thats what it was.[/QUOTE]

i would like to know too

I did the GoogleDoc file petition. Was teh CAG Box the result of that?
 
[quote name='chwang0129']i would like to know too

I did the GoogleDoc file petition. Was teh CAG Box the result of that?[/QUOTE]
Yes.

An individual letter was sent for each signer, as well as the overview, with all the "signatures" on it.

Weighed 8 pounds when it was all said and done, 718 (I think) names on the list.

Although there were some that had incomplete information, so you may want to continue to check and see if your membership has been cancelled.
 
[quote name='chwang0129']i would like to know too

I did the GoogleDoc file petition. Was teh CAG Box the result of that?[/QUOTE]

Yes, from what I understand the creators of the GoogleDoc made seperate letters/envelopes for each signature on the form and then placed 700+ (?) envelopes and letters into the box.

From what I remember, it cost near $25 for the entire operation, including shipping.



Changing subjects, it'd be crazy for the ECA to reject any of the letters, or the box. A case of fraud of that scale would mark an immediate end to any hopes for the ECA's future...Even though things aren't looking good for them as present. And rightfully so...I hope this company falls apart within the month.
 
Bleargh. I can still log into the site. -.-

Oh well. I'll give em time to sort through the 700+ some odd letters before I start getting paranoid. =P
 
I asked this in the last thread but it was moving too fast to get answered. When I signed up for this shit I used a paypal one time use generated card. SO, when they go to renew my subscription it should just not work because the card doesnt exist any more right?
 
[quote name='thehoweller']From what I remember, it cost near $25 for the entire operation, including shipping.[/QUOTE]

And a great many people have suggested that anyone wanting to "chip in" towards the cost, should do so by making a donation to Child's Play.

It's also been suggested that anyone who is willing and able should donate next year's ECA fee to Child's Play as well.

So I just thought I'd remind everyone. If you're willing and able to throw a few bucks towards Child's Play, please do so. It never hurts to have some good come out of a situation like this. :)
 
[quote name='genfuyung']I asked this in the last thread but it was moving too fast to get answered. When I signed up for this shit I used a paypal one time use generated card. SO, when they go to renew my subscription it should just not work because the card doesnt exist any more right?[/QUOTE]
I used a similar generated CC number through a different provider. I'm pretty sure they won't be able to charge you since the number expires. I just checked my provider and the number I used was killed two months ago. The ECA can suck it.
 
[quote name='genfuyung']I asked this in the last thread but it was moving too fast to get answered. When I signed up for this shit I used a paypal one time use generated card. SO, when they go to renew my subscription it should just not work because the card doesnt exist any more right?[/QUOTE]

Correct, you should be fine. They removed their right to update credit card information anyway, though.
 
Have fun with the box Hal. Maybe next time you'll just chow down on some crow and fix shit before things get out of hand.
 
[quote name='sefjwm']I'm a little late to the party here on CAG but I've been following your thread since day 1.

It has been very satisfying to read about everyone upset about all of this. I actually submitted the first message to Consumerist about this and am quoted and referenced a few times in their article. Just figured I'd finally get a CAG account and comment.

It's sad to see people buying into Hal's statements and I've argued with him in the forums before about false advertising. It's moot at this point but they still did have Amazon advertising when the codes were down. It was only for a week or so but they most definitely were there.

I've done some additional research and so far here is what I have concerning existing "benefits" still posted on his site:

Direct2Drive - should be 10% off but instead is an expired $5 off Borderlands code.

Tritton - new codes being "worked on" for months with no word if they ever will be back

Prima - code doesn't work, comes up invalid on their site

Buy.com - code is for new members only. Gypsyfly told me they were "fixing" this but is has been months

Maxmodz - code seems to be a scam. You never get a promo code box though the site claims it will eventually appear. I got all the way to the point where paypal sends them money and still no promo box. I would highly advise against using this site.

Maingear - should be canceled as per their CTO's statements but it still exists.

Cell Zenith - has no codes still. Again it has been months as far as I can remember

Gamepro - Link takes you to ordering page with the normal retail price

Fandango - for some reason they advertise this as a member discount but it is actually a Visa promo and has nothing whatsoever to do with the ECA.

I did find a couple working promos like ThinkGeek, IGN Insider and astroturf but for the most part none of their stuff works.

We have possibly won some battles but they continue to lie about their promos. And I don't buy it that these changes take time to do on the site. They claim they immediately removed the Amazon promo (even though they didn't) and they removed the PAX promo within a few hours of PA's post they wanted themselves removed. Heck they edit the TOS without issue all the time. There should be no excuse that these promos are still after months incorrect.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the ThinkGeek code expires in 2 weeks and the free Warcry choice still says "coming soon". powerupgames.com also is no extra "benefit" from the ECA as it's the same whether you go through the ECA or not. It's basically the ECA advertising the site. Some benefit. I'm not even going to bother looking at anymore but I'll take a wild guess that more of them are like that also. Pathetic.

Also I dont know where the hell they get their rates but the ECA info on the dawdle link says "Special ECA rate of just 10.99% when seling - lower than eBay or Amazon" which is just flat out false since in the case of ebay it's 8-8.75% and I don't know about Amazons but I'll just say that theirs is lower as well since the ECA can BS I figure I may as well also.
 
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[quote name='genfuyung']I asked this in the last thread but it was moving too fast to get answered. When I signed up for this shit I used a paypal one time use generated card. SO, when they go to renew my subscription it should just not work because the card doesnt exist any more right?[/QUOTE]

If/when they get an online cancellation/turn off auto-renew button, it wouldn't be a bad idea to just take care of it then to be sure.
 
Drats. Didn't know there was a CAG cancellation box. Would've loved to be apart of it. The old thread had way too many posts to actually bother keeping track of it.

If there happens to be a second CAG cancellation box, I'm in. I'll try to watch this thread by subscribing to it, but if someone fills me in via PM, I'd appreciate it. And as suggested earlier, I'll put my ECA renewal dues towards Child's Play, in addition to matching what I paid last year.
 
[quote name='Siterath']Well the general conclusion I have come to is this... this situation was 1 of 2 possible outcomes... Either:

1) This was all a scam. This was a deliberate attempt by the ECA to draw in members, use outdated or unreal benefits to keep members, and change the TOS to maintain membership (as an example, I had checked the no auto-renew function, so I could make the decision after my 1 year based on finances and what I thought of the ECA). This was a deliberate attempt to scam gamers of their money. When discovered, they attempted to keep it hush hush by having forum mods close threads (or now, close the forum) and by refusing to comment until the heat was continually turned up and up again.

2) This was, as one commentator described it, "the perfect storm." They had no ill intent, but despite this, the steps they took were in the wrong direction and at the wrong time. The poor choices made by the ECA and their poor handling of a small problem, allowed it to snowball into the fiasco we see at the moment. This has led to members questioning their benefits, but more than that, questioning what the ECA actually even does. The situation, while not deliberate, became what it is through the arrogance of the ECA and/or their ignorance towards the situation, and how to properly address the concerns of the very group they claim to represent.

Either way, the situation does not bode well for the ECA. Either they were engaging in a scam, which fully justifies the desire for members to sever their ties with the organization, or they were utterly incompetent in keeping their own house in order, which again fully justifies the desire for members to sever their ties.

So no matter what the intent of the organization in this situation, its clear that many people have now begun to question the ECA as a whole, and now too feel justified in leaving that organization for good.[/QUOTE]

A very apt summary of our current position on things. I'd just like to add one point from the monster thread, including a subpoint, and reiterate the Child's Play donation.

As tempers calmed over the cancellation issue and the handling of everything, questioning minds turned to what the ECA is actually doing as advocates. There are some guidelines and basic grassroots projects, some papers written on matters such as net neutrality, and one appearance of the VP at a discussion over (I think) net neutrality. The question remains if this justifies the cost of maintaining the organization, especially in light of the fees listed on their 2007 financials in conjunction with Hal owning the management company for the ECA. Lots of accusations, but at the current moment we don't have enough information to honestly state that they are using the management company to funnel money out of the NPO ECA into the profit company Crest.

With that point made, I just want to bring up the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) as an advocacy group that many feel we can support. It has been around for almost two decades, has many victories under it's belt (and even more projects and attempts to help), and many CAGgers including myself support it. If you cancelled your ECA membership but still want to support or be involved in advocacy, then it would be worth your time to research the EFF.

Finally, I'd like to bring up the Child's Play fund again, even if it's mentioned just a few posts above. :lol: Those of you who have cancelled your ECA membership and can afford to do so should consider donating your membership dues to Child's Play. They help a lot of hospitals with the funds that they raise each year, and this year is shaping up to be the best one yet!
 
[quote name='DaedalusIkari']Bleargh. I can still log into the site. -.-

Oh well. I'll give em time to sort through the 700+ some odd letters before I start getting paranoid. =P[/QUOTE]

Haha, wow, yeah seriously, give them some time. They're going to have to go through all 700+ letters by hand -- I certainly don't envy the people who will get stuck with that job (I seriously doubt Hal's doing it). Honestly, if they have mine processed within the next couple of weeks, I'm happy.
 
[quote name='Crono51']Drats. Didn't know there was a CAG cancellation box. Would've loved to be apart of it. The old thread had way too many posts to actually bother keeping track of it.

If there happens to be a second CAG cancellation box, I'm in. I'll try to watch this thread by subscribing to it, but if someone fills me in via PM, I'd appreciate it. And as suggested earlier, I'll put my ECA renewal dues towards Child's Play, in addition to matching what I paid last year.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, the primary purpose of the box was to give them the shock of getting a large number of cancellations all at once. We didn't even know whether they'd actually accept them or not in that form, so it was intended as more of a statement than anything (that it seems they are accepting them is great, though -- I'm sure that by this point Hal wants to be done with us as much as we want to be done with him). Since it's not likely that a another round would get enough people to have as much impact, and a second box probably wouldn't have the same effect anyway, you're probably really better off just mailing your own cancellation letter at this point.

But putting your ECA dues toward Child's Play isn't a bad idea anyway.
 
The only thing I'm worried about this whole situation with them receiving the letters is that by receiving and processing the letters, they are also acknowledging the majority of detractors of the ECA, that is, it is quite likely they are processing the letters just to simply be done with CAG's as a whole, and if few people are left to question the ECA, Hal, and the shady tactics they use, they may be more prone to NOT institute an online cancellation service, and not follow through with their promises to improve their practices.
 
[quote name='Raikoh']The only thing I'm worried about this whole situation with them receiving the letters is that by receiving and processing the letters, they are also acknowledging the majority of detractors of the ECA, that is, it is quite likely they are processing the letters just to simply be done with CAG's as a whole, and if few people are left to question the ECA, Hal, and the shady tactics they use, they may be more prone to NOT institute an online cancellation service, and not follow through with their promises to improve their practices.[/QUOTE]

While a lot of CAGgers chose to join the mass cancellation, there are also a lot who chose to remain with the ECA. Not all of them were "true believers" but willing to continue and see if the ECA could recover from this. I'm sure if they don't follow through on promises, we'll hear about it again and can decide if we need to contribute any more activities to protect our fellow gamers.
 
[quote name='bobo2k4']Can we get started on another box? I stopped reading the first eca thread after the second day.[/QUOTE]

Of course you can, but to be honest, in order to get this off the ground it might be wise for at least two or three people to pool together and get this off the ground. Fortunately enough for us who got in on the "first shipment" we had two generous people step-up to the plate.
 
This thread is now 1000x times less fun now that its not in the Deals forum.

If/When the online cancel account / cancel auto-renew button comes back, can we get a new thread in the Deals forum so people will know they can cancel in case the ECA doesn't email us?
 
Unless more than 700 people were left out of the first box, i'm really not too sure why a second one would be sent out. I imagine it'd be to save on postage rather than make a statement.

I can't wait to see the next statement where Hal lets everyone know how all of the exploiters have stopped being lazy and actually sent out a box with 20 cancellations.
 
I don't want to cancel. I just don't want the subscription to auto-renew. I'm not pissed off enough to remove all the good will and happiness the ECA Amazon codes brought me.
 
[quote name='Hostile']I don't want to cancel. I just don't want the subscription to auto-renew. I'm not pissed off enough to remove all the good will and happiness the ECA Amazon codes brought me.[/QUOTE]

I believe they've said that this will be an option soon.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Latest Update: According to Hal Halpin, the ECA has received the CAG box of cancellations and they will be processed ASAP.[/QUOTE]
If anyone's curious, they got the box at 11:40 a.m. EST yesterday. Some guy with really bad handwriting signed for it (unfortunately it wasn't Hal). I think I'll leave his name out of the forums, but if you were in on the batch and want a copy of the signature confirmation page just PM me.
 
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