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The Steam discussion topic! Joy and happiness, right here, folks.


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#1021 CoffeeEdge

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 03:48 AM

MS has pretty much said they have the right to take games off XBLA and not support them at any point they want,

More or less the same for Steam. You aren't guaranteed anything.

and they have also said its not their problem if your system dies and you lose your games.

Heh, on that note, ever tried to deal with Valve support? It's not pretty, usually.

but I do want to know that I have some kind of rights over my purchase and that a company must at min continue to provide me access to what I have paid for indefinitely.

You get the rights spelled out in the user/subscriber agreement and purchase details. You get access to the content, according to the terms of the subscription contract. What, do you think there should be, like, a federal law that states that all digital content delivery services should be forced to provide indefinite downloads? Infinite downloads are either a feature of a particular service/company, or it isn't.

It's not about "rights," like, as if we were talking about civil rights or something here. It's about the terms of private purchase agreements/contracts.

Again, not that different from a CD. You don't get a guarantee of permanent access to the contents of a CD or DVD, either.

The maker StrategyFirst treats their customers right - SO FAR.

Hah, is that so? That's fine, if that's been true in your experience, but you should hear how they treat the developers they publish for:
http://en.wikipedia....First#Conflicts
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#1022 Megazell

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 03:54 AM

Hah, is that so? That's fine, if that's been true in your experience, but you should hear how they treat the developers they publish for:
http://en.wikipedia....First#Conflicts


Yep. I knew about those incidents. Like I stated before these days most game makers can publisher their own works if they wanted to through some online format of their desire. There is no true need for publishers anymore (IMO there never was).

As a customer they treated me right and few others that I know that purchased their products.

EDIT - On another note...If Disciples 3 is not a full game with the default races from part 1 and 2...I heard they trying to charge for the Dwarves and Undead...then that too would be a dead issue for me.

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#1023 Steggy

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:05 AM

Just a question... starting to get into this steam game buying thing....

Do the collection packs normally go on sale?

I already got the THQ one which I was about to pay 99 for. Has the Valve, ID, or Rockstar packs ever gone on sale from their current 99 price?

99 still seems liek a good price for the Valve one just considering the breadth of games it covers. Am I mistaken?

#1024 JP

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:09 AM

The Super ID pack was like $23 bucks during the Winter sale. I think the Rockstar Pack was $50 during that sale as well.

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#1025 CoffeeEdge

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:21 AM

Yep. I knew about those incidents. Like I stated before these days most game makers can publisher their own works if they wanted to through some online format of their desire. There is no true need for publishers anymore (IMO there never was).


Uh, you know that publishers usually do more than just put games in boxes and get them on store shelves, right? They are often responsible for fronting the bulk of the development budget, in most cases.

Online self-publishing can work for little games like World of Goo these days, but without the traditional publisher/developer dynamic that the industry is built on, we wouldn't have ever seen the sorts of games that you have for the past 20 years.

The "IMO there never was" comment is seriously bewildering. Without publishers, and that sort of funding structure, we would never have seen the sort of big-budget/high-production-value games we have nowadays (and yeah, yeah, some people will argue about whether or not that is a good thing, but seriously, the world wasn't going to stop at Pong, and no, we weren't all going to play freeware forever, either).
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#1026 KaOTiK

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:22 AM

Just a question... starting to get into this steam game buying thing....

Do the collection packs normally go on sale?

I already got the THQ one which I was about to pay 99 for. Has the Valve, ID, or Rockstar packs ever gone on sale from their current 99 price?

99 still seems liek a good price for the Valve one just considering the breadth of games it covers. Am I mistaken?


Packs go on sale from time to time. The Valve pack has never from my knowledge had too big of a price cut for a sale.

I've read from a few different spots but never investigated to see if it was true, but apparently people that did buy the Valve pack got Left For Dead 2 automatically added to their game list when the game came out. Like I said I saw that said in a few different spots but don't know if it is true or not (didn't matter to me cause I already owned nearly all the Valve games as they came out).

Pack sales in general seem to be rather random except at the obvious holiday sales time.

#1027 Megazell

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 05:32 AM

Uh, you know that publishers usually do more than just put games in boxes and get them on store shelves, right? They are often responsible for fronting the bulk of the development budget, in most cases.

Online self-publishing can work for little games like World of Goo these days, but without the traditional publisher/developer dynamic that the industry is built on, we wouldn't have ever seen the sorts of games that you have for the past 20 years.

The "IMO there never was" comment is seriously bewildering. Without publishers, and that sort of funding structure, we would never have seen the sort of big-budget/high-production-value games we have nowadays (and yeah, yeah, some people will argue about whether or not that is a good thing, but seriously, the world wasn't going to stop at Pong, and no, we weren't all going to play freeware forever, either).


I hear you. And yes I do know the formal structure of how commercial games get made. That does not mean that it should stay this way. With all the successful games we have seen/played there were bucket loads of games and game companies that did not make it - Some of it was because the games were just awful and other reasons could have been mismanagement. When gaming went mainstream - a lot of good things came out of it but so did a lot of bad (like all things in life). Some of the worst things to happen are game makers that had strong niches but attempted to expand based on boardroom decisions that ultimately failed and broke the companies.

Just as how other forms of media have different venues and avenues for funds to be acquire so should gaming. To me, it's quite tragic that it has taken this long as it is for video gaming to get into 'formal' digital distribution when the technology and appetite (not to mention it's how PC gaming was founded in the first place) was there 15+ years ago.

Some of these publisher are as bad as the record companies that hold on to old practices and policy that have no business being industry standard.

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#1028 Steggy

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 07:15 PM

Packs go on sale from time to time. The Valve pack has never from my knowledge had too big of a price cut for a sale.

I've read from a few different spots but never investigated to see if it was true, but apparently people that did buy the Valve pack got Left For Dead 2 automatically added to their game list when the game came out. Like I said I saw that said in a few different spots but don't know if it is true or not (didn't matter to me cause I already owned nearly all the Valve games as they came out).

Pack sales in general seem to be rather random except at the obvious holiday sales time.


Thanks man, this post really helps me out. Wasnt sure if I wait for the valve pack to go on sale or not. At this point it seems pretty pointless to wait. Thanks!

#1029 KaOTiK

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 08:43 PM

Thanks man, this post really helps me out. Wasnt sure if I wait for the valve pack to go on sale or not. At this point it seems pretty pointless to wait. Thanks!


NP, you'll have lots of gaming goodness to enjoy at a steal at a price even at $100

#1030 Cheaplikeafox OS X

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 10:11 PM

I think I've seen the Valve pack on sale for maybe like 10-25% off at some random points. It's never been too much and I think the most I ever saw was the 2008 holiday sale.

As for the digital rights conversation, reality is there are still many differences between the digital world and physical world, even if the licenses are technically the same thing. I think a healthy discussion of the differences, wishes, expectations, etc. is fine and is one that could be had for a long long time.

#1031 MSI Magus

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 03:39 PM

updated

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#1032 Megazell

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:05 PM

Warning Forever

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#1033 MSI Magus

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:07 PM

Warning Forever

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That game isnt on steam ;)

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#1034 Ryukahn

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:27 PM

Question of the Week - Well last weeks QotW was a bust, dont think a single person responded to it. So hopefully this one is more popular! We all know steam has a lot of big games but this week lets focus on the little ones. Which games are your fav 5 min time wasters(or games you intend to lose 5 mins to but then lose hours)?


I play Puzzle Quest like this. Just fire it up and play a few quick battles then exit out and do something else. It works well as a nice little break from all the college reading that I am doing.

#1035 DukeEdwardI

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:28 PM

Trials 2 and Plants vs Zombies.

#1036 dfg

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:36 PM

Bejeweled or Peggle
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#1037 KaOTiK

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 05:11 PM

Defense Grid
Plants vs Zombies
Toki Tori
Audiosurf
Peggle

#1038 KaOTiK

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:34 PM

ooooo preorder Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II Chaos Rising and get Saint's Row 2 free, if you already own you can gift it.

Was buying this day one as it was, so cha ching!

#1039 mogamer

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:46 PM

Just as how other forms of media have different venues and avenues for funds to be acquire so should gaming. To me, it's quite tragic that it has taken this long as it is for video gaming to get into 'formal' digital distribution when the technology and appetite (not to mention it's how PC gaming was founded in the first place) was there 15+ years ago.

The tech might have been available, but the infrastructure wasn't readily available. High Speed internet has only been affordable for the masses for a short time. And I (and others) use digital distribution, but only in specific cases. I just don't trust these companies to do the right thing.

Some of these publisher are as bad as the record companies that hold on to old practices and policy that have no business being industry standard.


A perfect example of dinosaur thinking. Also, another example of a business I wouldn't trust with digital distribution (or anything else for that matter).

#1040 SEH

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:49 PM

Defense Grid: Awakening, Audiosurf, and Peggle are my favorite time wasters on Steam.

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#1041 Jesse_Dylan

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:26 PM

ooooo preorder Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II Chaos Rising and get Saint's Row 2 free, if you already own you can gift it.

Was buying this day one as it was, so cha ching!


Nice! Companies need to do more stuff like that on Steam.

#1042 Cheaplikeafox OS X

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 08:00 PM

I heard Saints Row 2 had lots of problems on the PC, does that hold true for the steam version? Free is free, but just wondering.

My time wasters on steam are probably the demo Peggle Extreme, Zombie Bowling, and Nation Red and Killing Floor.

I will say Nation Red and Killing Floor are games much deeper than your average time killing game, but I like them in the sense I can pick them up for a quick round and feel like I had a fun time and a break.

#1043 KaOTiK

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 08:22 PM

Nice! Companies need to do more stuff like that on Steam.


Yeah I love when you see that stuff.

THQ is pretty good about it, it seems.

Steam also added if you Preorder Necrovision Lost Company you get Necrovision free

#1044 DrFoo

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 01:02 AM

I heard Saints Row 2 had lots of problems on the PC, does that hold true for the steam version? Free is free, but just wondering.


Yeah I'm pretty sure no matter what version you get it will have some problems. I was thinking about buying it before but I've heard way too many bad things about the PC version.

My time wasters have been Aliens vs Predators (addicted to chucking grenades and disks everywhere), Killing Floor, and Natural Selection (old Half-Life 1 mod). All addicting and cheap. Also of course Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead 2.

#1045 Megazell

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 01:39 AM

Yeah I'm pretty sure no matter what version you get it will have some problems. I was thinking about buying it before but I've heard way too many bad things about the PC version.

My time wasters have been Aliens vs Predators (addicted to chucking grenades and disks everywhere), Killing Floor, and Natural Selection (old Half-Life 1 mod). All addicting and cheap. Also of course Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead 2.


That use to be one of my favorite mods. I moved on to Tremulous. It's a free and legal stand alone version of Natural Selection.

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#1046 DrFoo

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 01:58 AM

That use to be one of my favorite mods. I moved on to Tremulous. It's a free and legal stand alone version of Natural Selection.

I'll have to try that game out sometime. Thanks for the recommendation. Also damn I really hope Natural Selection 2 comes out soon.

EDIT
You made me look at the NS2 website and I just found out the first in game footage was revealed:


What this has to do with the steam thread I don't really know. I guess I'm waiting to buy it until it is released on steam if that counts.

#1047 Megazell

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 03:27 AM

^ Ya. I seen that before. I will stay with Trem though. NS was great but Trem has a larger player base and it's free.

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#1048 Mike UFC

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 03:47 AM

I was curious about people's thoughts on NecroVision. If you preorder NecroVision: Lost Company ($29.99), you get the the first NecroVision included. The concept seemed pretty cool but the middling reviews tell me the execution is not so much.

#1049 KaOTiK

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 03:59 AM

I was curious about people's thoughts on NecroVision. If you preorder NecroVision: Lost Company ($29.99), you get the the first NecroVision included. The concept seemed pretty cool but the middling reviews tell me the execution is not so much.


I'm interested in it myself, but already figured I would just wait till there is a deal on it (holiday or otherwise).

Is it kinda sad that I look forward to Tuesdays and Fridays to know what the midweek and weekend deals are? Like I don't have enough of a backlog as it is.

And to top it off, I just got my copies of a bunch of old school RPGs I have been wanting to replay for ages (Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 1+2, Icewind Dale 1+2, all the NWN) /facepalm

#1050 Cheaplikeafox OS X

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 04:41 AM

I too am interested in Necrovision. The original is on amazon for like 9.99 (retail box) and the concept seems cool. The fact there is a sequel is promising as well.

30 for the original isn't bad since I would likely pay 10 bucks each so this would be only 10 bucks more, but at the same time if I am not going to play and finish it right this moment I might as well wait.