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Personal Paypal payments for purchases and payers paying Paypal fees prohibited.


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226 replies to this topic

#121 Aenzo

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 05:03 PM

I actually never had a problem with Paypal freezing my funds, but I've heard about this countless of times. Where you either have to wait for the buyer to give you a positive feedback or wait 21 days. Many buyers don't even give feedback after they buy.

And it's quite flawed really, because these people can use the item, wait up to two weeks, and then finally decide they don't "like it" and go into a whole different route and say they want their money back for so and so reasons.

This is rather a bad example, but it's like if I went to Best Buy, bought some iPod and told them, "Look, you know what? I'll take it home, see if I like it, if I do I'll come back and pay." That money isn't YOURS until Paypal releases the funds to you.

From what I've read, as long as you meet certain requirements, such as 100 feedback rating, a higher than 4.8 DSR rating, or etc. Your funds do not get frozen and you can use them.

However, unlike a bank, Paypal is NOT covered by the FDIC. Something happens to the company, I believe you are screwed.

#122 allyourblood

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 06:22 PM

50 feedback and a member for 4 years, yea, you know what you're talking about


I don't follow you. I haven't 50 feedback on any site. 39 here on CAG, and 600+ on Ebay (member since '99). Or were you talking about someone else? You have 3 more feedback than me here and joined only a few months later. What's your point?
Being cheap doesn't mean you have to be a liar and a thief. Have some respect for yourself.


#123 kurrptsenate

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 08:33 PM

i'm amazed at your inability to follow my previous post

either way, i'm done

#124 allyourblood

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 08:41 PM

I don't know; I found it confusing. You mentioned "50 feedback" and I wondered to what you were referring. If you're bowing out of the conversation, I guess it doesn't matter either way.
Being cheap doesn't mean you have to be a liar and a thief. Have some respect for yourself.


#125 Bronson-Lee

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 09:06 PM

i'm amazed at your inability to follow my previous post

either way, i'm done



Nice cover.

Also, before you pull the vet card, you should make certain they aren't in pretty much the same boat as you.

#126 dinobot

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 03:37 AM

Sigh... this whole thing just shows that corporates really have nothing else to do than going after small stuff.
One day ebay/paypal won't be able to play this monopoly game anymore, b/c some1 is going to step up. Getting really sick and tired of these raising fee crap and the favoring buyers shit they do. But until that day comes, I will try and follow their rule.

#127 GraftonWVDiskExchang

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 01:21 PM

Whomever you heard all of this information from didn't really do you any favors.

(1) Paypal ONLY freezes your fees when you are a new user or when there is a problem somewhere along the way (such as you not being a 'verified' member). They don't just 'freeze' your funds for no reason. They freeze your funds when you are a new user in order to ensure that the other party (your buyer) actually does receive something in the mail. There used to be a time when people would open up Paypal accounts, sell thousands of dollars of items on Ebay, then never send anything out. By doing what Paypal does now (freeze funds in new accounts until positive feedback is received), they have pretty much put a stop to this. Again, it's not Paypal's fault that people rip other people off. At least they are trying to remedy the situation. You can always remind your buyer to leave you feedback...usually they do.

You don't need 100 positive ratings to have your funds "unfrozen". The DSR rating is something that Ebay uses, not Paypal. Once your buyer leaves positive feedback for you, your funds get unfrozen. Again, this is only valid when you are a new user and have proven yourself to be trustworthy.

You run the risk of a credit card chargeback EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU SELL SOMETHING. If a buyer decides that they don't like the item, they can file a complaint. As I stated previously, this is not Paypal's fault. They're not the ones that initiate refunds to buyers--the buyers do! Paypal is not in the business of selling/auctioning, they're just a payment processing center.

Why people keep blaming Paypal for things that buyers do is beyond my comprehension. Paypal is just a tool for people to send money to one another, they're not the ones that make people do the things that people do. If a buyer is going to screw you over, there's really not much anybody can do about it. If a buyer can't get his money back through Paypal, they WILL do a credit card reversal and they WILL get it--nothing you can do about it.

And finally, Paypal is FDIC-insured. They pass their funds through a bank that is FDIC insured, so, YES, they ARE FDIC-insured. Paypal will NEVER just "close their doors" and walk away with your money.

https://www.paypal.c...nt/general/FDIC

All it takes is a little research, folks. You can't always trust what your friends tell you as being the truth. If a person gets burned, of course their judgment is going to get biased.



I actually never had a problem with Paypal freezing my funds, but I've heard about this countless of times. Where you either have to wait for the buyer to give you a positive feedback or wait 21 days. Many buyers don't even give feedback after they buy.

And it's quite flawed really, because these people can use the item, wait up to two weeks, and then finally decide they don't "like it" and go into a whole different route and say they want their money back for so and so reasons.

This is rather a bad example, but it's like if I went to Best Buy, bought some iPod and told them, "Look, you know what? I'll take it home, see if I like it, if I do I'll come back and pay." That money isn't YOURS until Paypal releases the funds to you.

From what I've read, as long as you meet certain requirements, such as 100 feedback rating, a higher than 4.8 DSR rating, or etc. Your funds do not get frozen and you can use them.

However, unlike a bank, Paypal is NOT covered by the FDIC. Something happens to the company, I believe you are screwed.



#128 Kendro

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 05:30 PM

Well this is interesting. After a two month wait, I finally have $140 available for withdrawal from Bing cashback. They gave me the option of sending it to my PayPal account or through Amazon Payments. I'd like all of my "online funds" in one account but this is pretty tempting.

Being able to use it at Amazon's store is all I want but it looks like a number of merchants also hopped on the bandwagon like Buy and J&R.

#129 thelonepig

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 06:18 PM

Sigh... this whole thing just shows that corporates really have nothing else to do than going after small stuff.
One day ebay/paypal won't be able to play this monopoly game anymore, b/c some1 is going to step up. Getting really sick and tired of these raising fee crap and the favoring buyers *** they do. But until that day comes, I will try and follow their rule.


I'm looking forward to somebody else jumping into the fray as well. Amazon Payments is a great alternative that is available now. To push that further, auctions.amazon.com is a domain that will take you to a new login feature (which does not currently accept your existing Amazon information).

#130 JP

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 07:53 PM

I've contacted both Paypal and Steam about the gift payment and gifting of games (Steam has a thing about extra copies not being able to be sold).

Paypal

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Hi, my name is Sonny. I appreciate you sending us an email regarding
your concern and I will be happy to assist you with your questions. Let
me explain this further.

Since the payments are coming from your friends, it is perfectly fine to
receive Personal payments. As long as the sender initiates the Personal
payment, you do not have to worry about your account because there will
be no restrictions.

Thanks for sharing your concerns with us. We value what you have to say.
If you have time, you can learn more about using PayPal by visiting
www.paypal.com/101.

Sincerely,
Sonny
PayPal Consumer Support
PayPal, an eBay Company

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Form Message
customer subject: Does this qualify for use of personal payments?
customer message: Additional Information:
'I play lots of games on Steam and they have these 4-pack deals where you buy a game and it gives you one and 3 others to send to friends. I've been the one doing the up front purchase and they've been using Paypal Personal Payments to send the money they owe me for their part. Is that a use that qualifies for personal payments? I don't want to get my account or theirs locked out for improper use so before we do another one I wanted to get verification.'


Steam

I finally got a reply back from Steam:

Hello Josh, Thank you for contacting Steam Support. This rule in the subscriber agreement is meant to prevent the abuse of this gifting system (i.e. user purchases a "copy" of left 4 dead from an online auction and instead gets a gift pass). We understand that friends or groups of people often go-in on four packs of subscriptions and will not automatically disable any of your accounts for it. If you have any further questions, please let us know - we will be happy to assist you.


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#131 hero101

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 02:56 AM

Well, this topic seems to discourage lowball sales in my mind.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScSXpY5F5ebi67djEcxLCh1LppgIsL6HFBGB39XzHLrv9fkTY&t=1&usg=__rTGLWWIDKzzePxIYpFQItriY4JM=Posted Image


#132 shrike4242

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 03:23 AM

Thank you for taking the time to check with Paypal and Steam, jp0213. Good fact to know that they consider Steam 4-packs to be worthy of Personal payments for "repayment" of the purchaser's copies of the game.

I think gameshares would probably work the same way to Paypal, since it's the same analogy of the up-front purchase of an item and the "repayment" to cover the share of the item, like the "repayment of lunch debt" analogy Paypal themselves use.

Well, this topic seems to discourage lowball sales in my mind.

Paypal isn't the only payment method around. Other CAGs are starting to try out Amazon Payments and see how it'll work in comparison to Paypal.

#133 allyourblood

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 05:24 AM

I've contacted both Paypal and Steam about the gift payment and gifting of games (Steam has a thing about extra copies not being able to be sold).


I don't know anything about Steam so I have no comment on that, but your e-mail to Paypal didn't ever mention your friends sending the money to you as a gift payment, which is what's being questioned here. Don't the other personal payment options (like "payment owed") involve some sort of fee? If not, then ignore the following:

I think the vague wording may have resulted in the response you got, but heck, maybe Paypal really doesn't care (although that would surprise me). Calling the money you receive a "payment" is completely different from receiving a gift.

If Paypal really did sign off on gift payments though, that's great news.
Being cheap doesn't mean you have to be a liar and a thief. Have some respect for yourself.


#134 JP

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 05:45 AM

I'm pretty sure all personal payments do not have a charge. From their site:

It is free to send a Personal Payment to someone in the United States if you use your bank or balance as the exclusive Payment Method*. All other Personal Payments include a fee as noted below.

Sending or Receiving Money Free
When Payment Method is exclusively:
-PayPal Balance, and/or
-Bank account

2.9% + $0.30 USD
When Payment Method is:
-Credit Card
-Debit Card
-PayPal Credit
-or partially funded by PayPal Balance or Bank account
Either the sender or recipient pays the fee. Not both. The sender decides who pays this fee

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#135 allyourblood

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 05:55 AM

Thanks for that, jp0213. Good to see Paypal being reasonable for once!
Being cheap doesn't mean you have to be a liar and a thief. Have some respect for yourself.


#136 rmb

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:53 AM

I understand where he is coming from though. The heaviest impact of this does fall on people who are having lowball auctions, and since that currently includes me as well I'm not unsympathetic to what he's saying.

In my eyes, as long as I am providing other fee-free means by which a seller can pay for an item (Amazon Payments, Amazon GC, Concealed cash) then it's not unreasonable to ask the buyer to cover the fees if they choose to use paypal as a payment. I am not at all saying I'm going to ignore what shrike is saying, if this is the rule now than of course I am going to follow it.

In the end, I think this is going to cause more trouble than it solves. If there's any group of people who are going to get hot and bothered over who pays seventy five cents, it's CAGs. I don't envy saetia having to deal with people on that, especially since he is a relatively new trader having such a high-volume sale.

For lowball seller's just put the cost in the shipping total. Unfortunately, as seller's paypal is a necessary evil. They provide a convenience and as such deserve a fee. The biggest amount of hate for paypal has come about since they were acquired by ebay.

Allyourblood, I was trying to say the same thing, albeit in a different way. It didn't come out sounding quite as nice as it did when you stated the same thing though.

Sure, I have only 1 trade feedback so far, but I did join this site to befriend other people and trade games also. Somebody ALWAYS brings up a sore subject, and manages to stir up a hornet's nest in the process. I'm usually that somebody :-)

I have a tendency to put words down on paper the wrong way...which irks some people (as was well displayed previously in this thread LOL).

At least I know my writings get noticed and people do think about what I write. They may not agree with what I say, but oh well.

I'm just glad that I'm not the only one that agrees that if a person uses a company's services, that they should pay for them...whether you like the company or not.

I have seen Paypal completely shut off their services to companies/sites that they think aren't enforcing their policies. I would really hate for that to happen to CAG. Sure, people have a "right" to charge what they want to, but others have rights also (such as the right not to pay somebody else's fees), as do companies that have a right to profit from the products that they produce.


Seller's can include this cost in their price. They just can't discount for alternative payments. As buyer's we pay the fees. Some buyer's just don't realize what their payment covers.

paypal operates like a bank. if you don't believe this, than you are pretty darn naive

Exactly!

and again, as I said before, it's a necessary evil to deal with this company. honestly though, it's impossible for me to be sympathetic to their "situation"

Yea, their seller's protection pretty much sucks if the stories you read are true. Their buyer's protection is pretty damn good, really good for scammers!


Just realized a no fee method to move funds, Considering the demographics of this site it is probably safe to say many play online poker. If so you can send funds to other members on many of the sites. Just something to consider for those looking at alternatives.

Edited by rmb, 31 January 2010 - 09:04 AM.


#137 Lucavious

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 10:03 PM

Seller's can include this cost in their price. They just can't discount for alternative payments. As buyer's we pay the fees. Some buyer's just don't realize what their payment covers.

Actually I think specifically we're not supposed to do this. That's what most would call a surcharge. I like the idea of just bumping up the shipping price a dollar or two to help cover the fees (of course that means non-Paypal payers get burned too though).

#138 Dr. Pizza

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 04:04 AM

People are still gonna be gifting >.> just wont be saying it.


#139 allyourblood

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:55 AM

People make bootleg copies of games even though they're not supposed to.
Being cheap doesn't mean you have to be a liar and a thief. Have some respect for yourself.


#140 PlayableMoogle

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 02:33 PM

I'm just asking - doesn't the wording in the PP UA suggest that asking the buyer to pay the PP fees is acceptable? I read it as though you cannot force them to pay the fees, which is obviously the case here. I don't take that to mean that I can't ask/request that the buyer pays, though. I just have to hope that they actually will.

Yes? No?

#141 wbc1228

wbc1228

Posted 08 February 2010 - 03:29 PM

I'm just asking - doesn't the wording in the PP UA suggest that asking the buyer to pay the PP fees is acceptable? I read it as though you cannot force them to pay the fees, which is obviously the case here. I don't take that to mean that I can't ask/request that the buyer pays, though. I just have to hope that they actually will.

Yes? No?


no, it is the other way around.
you're NOT allowed to charge the buyer a fee for using paypal.

#142 Ryukahn

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:40 PM

I'm just asking - doesn't the wording in the PP UA suggest that asking the buyer to pay the PP fees is acceptable? I read it as though you cannot force them to pay the fees, which is obviously the case here. I don't take that to mean that I can't ask/request that the buyer pays, though. I just have to hope that they actually will.

Yes? No?


Just charge accordingly for your games. Say you are looking over your games and decide you want to get a net sum of $20 for one, $30 for another, and $40 for the third game, for a total of $90. When you go to list the actual games, add up any fees and shipping charges that there will be, add that to what you want your net sum to be, and you have the price you will charge for your game. So you would actually charge ~$25 for the first one, ~$35 for the second one, and ~$45 for the third one if you are selling here, since the only fees are paypal and shipping. Obviously, you can also offer a discount for when people buy multiple items, since you will not have to pay full price for shipping 2 items in the same package.

#143 PlayableMoogle

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 06:25 PM

no, it is the other way around.
you're NOT allowed to charge the buyer a fee for using paypal.


No, I understand the gist of what it is saying.

I'm just saying that the way it is worded sounds like you just can't REQUIRE them to pay. You could still ask.

#144 PlayableMoogle

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 06:26 PM

Just charge accordingly for your games. Say you are looking over your games and decide you want to get a net sum of $20 for one, $30 for another, and $40 for the third game, for a total of $90. When you go to list the actual games, add up any fees and shipping charges that there will be, add that to what you want your net sum to be, and you have the price you will charge for your game. So you would actually charge ~$25 for the first one, ~$35 for the second one, and ~$45 for the third one if you are selling here, since the only fees are paypal and shipping. Obviously, you can also offer a discount for when people buy multiple items, since you will not have to pay full price for shipping 2 items in the same package.


This obviously makes much sense, and is the least abrasive workaround, I guess. :)

I just want to try and circumvent their shoddy language.

#145 saetia

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:16 PM

I send my money as goods and make the seller eat the fees.


He's not lying.
NieR = my GotY.

#146 wbc1228

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:47 PM

No, I understand the gist of what it is saying.

I'm just saying that the way it is worded sounds like you just can't REQUIRE them to pay. You could still ask.


Paypal's position on this issue is crystal clear.

"You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment."
https://www.paypal.c...eiving_payments

What part of that sentence do you not understand?
The NOT part?

#147 Stoic Person Eater

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 09:55 PM

Paypal's position on this issue is crystal clear.

"You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment."
https://www.paypal.c...eiving_payments

What part of that sentence do you not understand?
The NOT part?

Are you saying that as a seller, he shouldn't be able to set his pricing to whatever he wants? If he sells a game for $20, who's to say he is not really only charging $18 for the game, but $2 to cover fees? Will you be able to understand his intentions? No, stop acting like it.

Most of us are competent enough to automatically include any fees or shipping or packaging costs; along with our perceived value of the item when selling on here. Economics 101 or Common Sense 101, either way, most of us have taken the course.

Get off your high horses and post somewhere else. You can't control anyone else but yourself, stop trying to by posting in a forum.

Boom.

#148 MrNEWZ

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 11:46 PM

Shrike left a message in my thread where I was asking for gift paypal for a PS3. Of course I would have accepted non-gift paypal and it would have only been 8 bucks more for a close to $300 purchase. I can see not doing gift for that purchase, but it's annoying for an item that might only cost a few bucks. Oh well, rules are rules I suppose.


I'd like to point out that several years ago, when I bought a PS3 from someone (on CAG, no less) and Paypal found in "my favor", I got $0 back. Nothing. Not even a "sorry." The "protection" that Paypal provides is non-existent.

To pretend like you're any safer when it is a "GIFT" v PRODUCT is laughable.
-Michael

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#149 allyourblood

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 12:09 AM

I'd like to point out that several years ago, when I bought a PS3 from someone (on CAG, no less) and Paypal found in "my favor", I got $0 back. Nothing. Not even a "sorry." The "protection" that Paypal provides is non-existent.

To pretend like you're any safer when it is a "GIFT" v PRODUCT is laughable.



As you said, that was several years ago. I have had Paypal protection restore complete funds to my account on two separate occasions within the last 3 years. It works.
Being cheap doesn't mean you have to be a liar and a thief. Have some respect for yourself.


#150 MrNEWZ

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 12:42 AM

As you said, that was several years ago. I have had Paypal protection restore complete funds to my account on two separate occasions within the last 3 years. It works.


07-21-2007 Re: PS3 [The last PM I have from the person, so the dispute was likely August]

I still have the PMs stored in my inbox here. The reality is this: my issue happened during the same time frame and, if the money is moved, Paypal will still not return money to you if they can't recover it.

[Just to show I'm not a complete cynic, I will say I've had successes as well with the process as seller AND buyer, but the point stands that the protection is absent if they don't win, neither do you.]
-Michael

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