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CAGcast #189: DRM Free!


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#61 canestim

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 04:20 PM

Good show as usual. Glad to have the audio back to normal after the last couple of shows.

I also like having Shipwreck aka Boatcrash on the show. 2 is ok, 4's a crowd, 3 makes for a good mix in a podcast in my opinion.

Thanks for pointing out JM's The Time Belt. I am a fan of Joystiq and somehow I missed that.

#62 bsachtjen

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 04:31 PM

why do cheapy and wombat say mare-e-ooo, can they not hear in the game they say Mario? i don't know why but it irritates me that cannot pronounce one of gaming's most important characters names!!!


good show as always, just learn how to say the damn name correctly! :-)

Edited by bsachtjen, 26 February 2010 - 04:32 PM.
because i wanted to say that i like the show after my little rant


#63 Wombat

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 04:36 PM

why do cheapy and wombat say mare-e-ooo, can they not hear in the game they say Mario? i don't know why but it irritates me that cannot pronounce one of gaming's most important characters names!!!


good show as always, just learn how to say the damn name correctly! :-)


Blame Capt. Lou



1st 4 seconds of the clip

#64 retromufc

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 05:45 PM

Am I the only person here who doesn't give a shit about Final Fantasy 13? I have been playing it since it's creation but starting with X-2 the series has been in a serious decline. I think they are going more realtime with all the combat and less and less exploration and I have no real interest in this one. I am going to skip it until I get it for $20 or less.

I do think that it well sell best in march, with the 360 version topping the chart.

#65 eraser813

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:32 PM

Hey guys, I've been listening since cagcast #1 and have loved all of them. You guys talk about your lives in the way that real friends speak to one another and that,to me, is what makes the cast special. I'm listening to cast #188 as I type this and just want to say that I didn't think the audio was bad at all. Certainly 100% better than the last live show you did! I was wondering if there's a reason that Shipwrecks vocals always seems to be at a lower volume than the other 2 guys? Does he just speak more quietly or does he have his mic level set too low? I'd love to be able to hear him more clearly with out turning up the volume so much because then when Wombat and Cheapy speak it blows my eardrums out! Thanks guys.

#66 thwak

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:47 PM

As a PC gamer, I would rather not play ubisoft games at all over playing it with terrible DRM.

Look, I understand that companies need to protect their products, but if you're going to screw over the consumers in the process you need to rethink your strategy.

Maybe the better solution is to only release the game on steam or some other digital distribution site like direct 2 drive because that won't screw over the legit costumers and it would make it harder for pirates.

#67 200STM

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 07:23 PM

Cheapyd Does tai watch the Toei Super Sentai shows (the show that the power rangers were based on in america) I was just wondering if everyones kids watched it in japan I just started watching it. I liked the podcast it went well after having to deal with some bad customer service at a gamecrazy. anyhow thanks and Im hoping I can win for next weds contest.

#68 Gigan22

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 07:42 PM

Cheapyd Does tai watch the Toei Super Sentai shows (the show that the power rangers were based on in america) I was just wondering if everyones kids watched it in japan I just started watching it. I liked the podcast it went well after having to deal with some bad customer service at a gamecrazy. anyhow thanks and Im hoping I can win for next weds contest.


Not to derail this thread, but tokusatsu shows are great. Super Sentai, Kamen Rider, Ultraman. Good stuff. Highly recommend Kamen Rider Kabuto and, if you can find it, GARO.

Sorry to be off topic.

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#69 xrayzwei

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 07:53 PM

I liked the talk about project 10 dollar, but I'm curious about an facet you didn't address: How many of these games are traded in without codes or incentives used or redeemed? Do you think that if there is an unredeemed code included in the trade-in that GS and other retailers will take that into consideration when giving trade credit? Should this matter?

I believe that so many consumers are unaware of the promotion that they will ignore any pack-in much like most ignore the manual.

#70 youruglyclone

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:13 PM

money says this twitter thing with wombat is cag villain ballot stuffing. so cheapyd is the winner of cag villain 2009

#71 Curufinwe

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:28 PM

Am I the only person here who doesn't give a shit about Final Fantasy 13? I have been playing it since it's creation but starting with X-2 the series has been in a serious decline.


That's a weird statement. Starting with X-2, there's only been three Final Fantasies released in America; X-2, XI, and XII. And they're all completely different games.

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#72 ArthurDigbySellers

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 09:56 PM

The ending of this CAGcast was one of the funniest ever. Cheapy fucking with Wombat's shout-outs by editing in the Tic Tac Dough music was genius. I was laughing my ass off in my car on the commute home!

Currently Drinking:
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#73 retromufc

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:50 PM

That's a weird statement. Starting with X-2, there's only been three Final Fantasies released in America; X-2, XI, and XII. And they're all completely different games.


X2 was mediocre story wise buy the gameplay was not bad. Admittedly I did not play XI since I did not want to shell out a monthly fee to play it. XII to me is the weak point in the FF series. It has been almost three years since I have played it but I do remember thinking the story was not very good and the almost completely automated battle system was terrible. This game looks more of the same and what little I have read about it does not interest me.

#74 Darkpaul

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:56 PM

Hey, guys, nice show :).

I did want to put my two cents about the whole Project $10 issue. I think it comes down to a simple issue for certain gamers and buying it new or used (I'm bettin' more than just myself if I'm on a website called CHEAPASS GAMER): Does it really matter if I can get an extra weapon or an exclusive something-or-other? I rarely care because it doesn't BREAK the game if I don't own it! A game should have plenty of other weapons and armors for me to use and enjoy the game with! So they can take most of this "incentive" DLC and shove it right back up Wombat's ass.

#75 Ivanhoe

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 02:37 AM

hahaha great show guys.
Thanks.

#76 ianoid

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 04:04 AM

I just used your crappy godaddy codes to register 5me77i.com, 5me77i.me, 5me77i.us, and 5me77i.biz. Total waste of money!

Does www.Gixen.com for eBay sniping have an affiliate program. Gixen is cheap and ROCKS. (no affiliation - no disclousures - totally random)

Luv the CAGcast!

#77 Doomtime

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 05:26 AM

I have to disagree with wombat, i dont believe the 360 version of Final
Fantasy 13 is going to outsell the PS3 version.

It's just hard for me to imagine it outselling the ps3 version.
I'll take..

1. Battlefield BC2 Xbox 360
2. Final Fantasy XIII PS3
3. God of War III
4. Battlefield BC2 PS3
5. Final Fantasy XIII 360

CAGFL: (187-31)

 


#78 rogueweapon

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 07:02 AM

good show you cheap bastards.
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#79 fatbeer

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 10:05 AM

I wonder does Cheapy leave ad-block off for Pornhub or Tube 8 so he can "understand the business"?
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#80 repete

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 04:55 PM

you should have mentioned the Spore DRM(4 installs max then it wont install) and how it blew up in EA's face with all the complaints
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#81 sheppyboy2000

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 07:39 PM

As for the backlash from legit gamers, you can look at EA's Spore as an example. They placed a heavy drm on it and tons of people downloaded it out of spite.


You know, I love PC gaming, I really do. But you pointed out the problems, not the evidence. What happened when this occured? Here, let me break this down for you.

1. Command & Conquer has become an online persistant franchise thus requiring constant log-ins even when playing single player. In other words, they don't trust PC gamers anymore because the response to Red Alert 3's DRM, instead of of "I'm just not going to buy it" like MY reaction, was "I'm going to fucking steal it because I'm a self-entitled parasytic bastard manchild who feels EA owns me something beyond the game I just bought."

2. Battlefield has become a primarily console franchise with Bad Company 2. Meanwhile, the last two other battlefield games where either for a console downloadable service, or basically free... the only price the bulk of PC gamers are willing to pay.

3. Spore, the game at the center of the entire "evidence against" the DRM argument, has meanwhile shifted it's focus entirely to console with announced sequels on Wii, DS, PS3, and 360.

4. EA support of PC gaming in general has gone down dramatically since the Spore fiasco.

In essence, the PROPER reaction to DRM you object to is simply NOT buying the game. If you are stealing it just to send the message that you will steal it if they do this, guess what, message received. Tragically, the message is that your platform of choice is a variable den of theives who cannot be called upon to have nice things. So when a company says they can't trust you because of the Spore fiasco, just look at that torrent file on your hard drive while you were "sending a message" and try to argue with that logic.

What the downloading protest does is something that would be absolutely laughed out of court. Imagine this scenario. You're in a store and followed by some store detectives. It's annoying, stereotyping, and insulting. If you were a reasonable person, you would walk right up to this person, items in hand, put them in this persons hands and say, "Thanks, you've given me reason to shop elsewhere." The PC Gamer manchild response is instead to stop by electronics, grab handsfull of consoles and games, and run right out the front door. Then, as police show up, you tell them "I had to steal it because they THINK I'm a theif." In real life, the "stealing because of righteous indignation" cause doesn't work and the Judge will say ,"Yes, but you still STOLE it." Your right, as a consumer, is to take your business elsewhere. Your right is NOT to steal because you don't agree with the purchase agreement.

I say this because it is, in fact, truth. And if you're one of the PC gamers who buys games and hate to see this happen to your industry, guess what, I'm right there with you. I love PC gaming, enjoy the HELL out of Relic RTS games and many of the genres that just DO NOT work on a console. I love that it's a truly open platform. And if me saying any or all of this offends you and makes you wave your Steam account in the air to disprove this point, then guess what. You're the exception, NOT the rule. Just as I, when I disagree with DRM on a game decide NOT to buy it, am the exception, not the rule. And it's about damn time PC gamers start acknowledging the problem displayed in this very thread by the person who readily admitted he steals Ubisoft games just because they use Starforce.

There is the person responsible for Ubisofts actions. There is the reason why Epic has gone from being Unreal focused to Gears of War focused. There is the reason why PC games are now the after thought and PC is used more as the development platform for most games instead of the release platform.

#82 Astinus Majere

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 07:56 PM

That's a weird statement. Starting with X-2, there's only been three Final Fantasies released in America; X-2, XI, and XII. And they're all completely different games.


Technically XI came out on the PC a month before X-2, so the only Final Fantasy since X-2 has been XII, and even if you don't like XII I definitely wouldn't consider 1 game "a serious decline".
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#83 Gigan22

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 11:05 PM

You know, I love PC gaming, I really do. But you pointed out the problems, not the evidence. What happened when this occured? Here, let me break this down for you.

1. Command & Conquer has become an online persistant franchise thus requiring constant log-ins even when playing single player. In other words, they don't trust PC gamers anymore because the response to Red Alert 3's DRM, instead of of "I'm just not going to buy it" like MY reaction, was "I'm going to fucking steal it because I'm a self-entitled parasytic bastard manchild who feels EA owns me something beyond the game I just bought."

2. Battlefield has become a primarily console franchise with Bad Company 2. Meanwhile, the last two other battlefield games where either for a console downloadable service, or basically free... the only price the bulk of PC gamers are willing to pay.

3. Spore, the game at the center of the entire "evidence against" the DRM argument, has meanwhile shifted it's focus entirely to console with announced sequels on Wii, DS, PS3, and 360.

4. EA support of PC gaming in general has gone down dramatically since the Spore fiasco.

In essence, the PROPER reaction to DRM you object to is simply NOT buying the game. If you are stealing it just to send the message that you will steal it if they do this, guess what, message received. Tragically, the message is that your platform of choice is a variable den of theives who cannot be called upon to have nice things. So when a company says they can't trust you because of the Spore fiasco, just look at that torrent file on your hard drive while you were "sending a message" and try to argue with that logic.

What the downloading protest does is something that would be absolutely laughed out of court. Imagine this scenario. You're in a store and followed by some store detectives. It's annoying, stereotyping, and insulting. If you were a reasonable person, you would walk right up to this person, items in hand, put them in this persons hands and say, "Thanks, you've given me reason to shop elsewhere." The PC Gamer manchild response is instead to stop by electronics, grab handsfull of consoles and games, and run right out the front door. Then, as police show up, you tell them "I had to steal it because they THINK I'm a theif." In real life, the "stealing because of righteous indignation" cause doesn't work and the Judge will say ,"Yes, but you still STOLE it." Your right, as a consumer, is to take your business elsewhere. Your right is NOT to steal because you don't agree with the purchase agreement.

I say this because it is, in fact, truth. And if you're one of the PC gamers who buys games and hate to see this happen to your industry, guess what, I'm right there with you. I love PC gaming, enjoy the HELL out of Relic RTS games and many of the genres that just DO NOT work on a console. I love that it's a truly open platform. And if me saying any or all of this offends you and makes you wave your Steam account in the air to disprove this point, then guess what. You're the exception, NOT the rule. Just as I, when I disagree with DRM on a game decide NOT to buy it, am the exception, not the rule. And it's about damn time PC gamers start acknowledging the problem displayed in this very thread by the person who readily admitted he steals Ubisoft games just because they use Starforce.

There is the person responsible for Ubisofts actions. There is the reason why Epic has gone from being Unreal focused to Gears of War focused. There is the reason why PC games are now the after thought and PC is used more as the development platform for most games instead of the release platform.


I most certainly agree with you. I'm not going to wave my Steam account in front of you, but am only going to say I tend to buy more indie titles on the PC because I can't acquire them on the consoles. That's not only because I prefer the consoles but I also don't have to deal with "Will my computer be able to handle this?" and all the other BS that comes with it. You can say I'm lazy or whatever, but doesn't matter to me. Thankfully, most of the indie scene is more than happy to pay for and support indie developers on the PC. The exception being World of Goo which, I think the statistic was some 85% of people on the PC leaderboards, had a very high illegal download percentage.

I guess my point is that I don't necessarily NOT buy games on the PC because of the drm, I just tend to buy them on the consoles where I don't have to deal with it. Makes me wonder how many people have done the same... The games I do buy on the PC tend not to have any drm anyway because they're indie games. Though it's much easier to snag them off of Steam if available.

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#84 itachiitachi

itachiitachi

Posted 28 February 2010 - 01:25 AM

1. Command & Conquer has become an online persistant franchise thus requiring constant log-ins even when playing single player. In other words, they don't trust PC gamers anymore because the response to Red Alert 3's DRM, instead of of "I'm just not going to buy it" like MY reaction, was "I'm going to fucking steal it because I'm a self-entitled parasytic bastard manchild who feels EA owns me something beyond the game I just bought."

Did any one say that? No, But if a company cripple's a game with DRM that only promotes pirating.

2. Battlefield has become a primarily console franchise with Bad Company 2. Meanwhile, the last two other battlefield games where either for a console downloadable service, or basically free... the only price the bulk of PC gamers are willing to pay.

So you are saying in response to selling millions of copies a game on the PC EA moved it's franchise to the console?
You realize that bad company is more of a spin off, 1943 is planned to be ported to the PC and Batttefield 3 is in the works as a PC only game.

3. Spore, the game at the center of the entire "evidence against" the DRM argument, has meanwhile shifted it's focus entirely to console with announced sequels on Wii, DS, PS3, and 360.

You mean the game where no sequel has been announced yet, then next planned release is for the wii and PC and as far consoles go it had some spin offs on the wii and DS but the original game is still only available on the PC/mac ?

4. EA support of PC gaming in general has gone down dramatically since the Spore fiasco.

Judging by the accuracy of what you said so far I'm not taking your word for it.

In essence, the PROPER reaction to DRM you object to is simply NOT buying the game. If you are stealing it just to send the message that you will steal it if they do this, guess what, message received. Tragically, the message is that your platform of choice is a variable den of theives who cannot be called upon to have nice things. So when a company says they can't trust you because of the Spore fiasco, just look at that torrent file on your hard drive while you were "sending a message" and try to argue with that logic.

What the downloading protest does is something that would be absolutely laughed out of court. Imagine this scenario. You're in a store and followed by some store detectives. It's annoying, stereotyping, and insulting. If you were a reasonable person, you would walk right up to this person, items in hand, put them in this persons hands and say, "Thanks, you've given me reason to shop elsewhere." The PC Gamer manchild response is instead to stop by electronics, grab handsfull of consoles and games, and run right out the front door. Then, as police show up, you tell them "I had to steal it because they THINK I'm a theif." In real life, the "stealing because of righteous indignation" cause doesn't work and the Judge will say ,"Yes, but you still STOLE it." Your right, as a consumer, is to take your business elsewhere. Your right is NOT to steal because you don't agree with the purchase agreement.

I say this because it is, in fact, truth. And if you're one of the PC gamers who buys games and hate to see this happen to your industry, guess what, I'm right there with you. I love PC gaming, enjoy the HELL out of Relic RTS games and many of the genres that just DO NOT work on a console. I love that it's a truly open platform. And if me saying any or all of this offends you and makes you wave your Steam account in the air to disprove this point, then guess what. You're the exception, NOT the rule. Just as I, when I disagree with DRM on a game decide NOT to buy it, am the exception, not the rule. And it's about damn time PC gamers start acknowledging the problem displayed in this very thread by the person who readily admitted he steals Ubisoft games just because they use Starforce.

And do you no what a company will say if no one buys or pirates the game?
1. No one on this platform wants are games lets stop making them
2. They will still say it didn't sell well do to piracy.

Also I'd like to point out that piracy is becoming more prevalant on the consoles, with games like sf4 and mw2 being downloaded nearly 1,000,000 times, and many wii games have higher piracy numbers than sales numbers.
(this isn't even looking the handhelds)
As piracy gets easier on the consoles(as the consoles get more computer like) piracy will become a bigger problem for them too.

There is the person responsible for Ubisofts actions. There is the reason why Epic has gone from being Unreal focused to Gears of War focused. There is the reason why PC games are now the after thought and PC is used more as the development platform for most games instead of the release platform.

Well then Ubisoft loses money. Plenty of other companies make money on the PC so if ubisoft can't then they are doing something wrong.

Any one that thinks that crippleing a game with DRM is going to help stop it from being pirated is an idiot. They may as well release free DLC that only works with pirated versions of the game.

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

 

This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

 

#85 Kezmer

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 03:35 AM

Blame Capt. Lou



1st 4 seconds of the clip




R.I.P. Captain Lou ! He died on my birthday
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#86 AshesofWake

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 05:15 AM

DRM doesn't make any sense to me, well it does for what it's SUPPOSED to do. But the problem is, people that pirate games are going to pirate them no matter what. they have that mentality in the first place. And people that have the mentality to purchase a game are now going to be less likely to purchase the game because of DRM. It's something they have no reason to deal with because of the people that will ALWAYS pirate no matter what. It's ridiculous.
WHAT A HORRIBLE NIGHT TO HAVE A CURSE

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#87 Leggo

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 07:38 AM

Well then Ubisoft loses money. Plenty of other companies make money on the PC so if ubisoft can't then they are doing something wrong.

Any one that thinks that crippleing a game with DRM is going to help stop it from being pirated is an idiot. They may as well release free DLC that only works with pirated versions of the game.


AHAHHAAHA, that's brilliant. Effectively, that's what they're doing. It would be much less work doing that too, put out a free hat for your player character if the exe is unsigned or something. People gravitate towards whatever is easiest or has the most benefit when all other things are equal, and by giving something to pirates for free, it's almost the same as putting limitations on the retail release. Absolutely brilliant, logic win. :)

I think that guy was talking about me as being the guy who "admitted to pirating Ubisoft titles", and I will gladly wave my steam account in front of his face. 265 games, thanks. It's also not that I pirate Ubisoft games out of spite because they used starforce, it's that I didn't even consider buying Ubisoft games for YEARS because a few games had that ugly DRM on them. That Ubisoft label may as well have said "may contain rat droppings". No matter what deal I got, I passed on it. Ubisoft also never really put anything out on PC first that I really wanted to try, I played most of their stuff on console.

Also, let's not kid ourselves, people, EA, Ubisoft, all the big players are investing heavily in console because that's where the money is, they're not trying to get away from pirates. PC gaming outside of maybe Steam is just too complicated. You need too much specialized hardware, patches, windows updates, etc. Too many things go wrong even on a good day, and throwing the perils of DRM on top of that just turns people right off.

As far as EA moving Spore to console... well, the game ultimately wasn't revolutionary or evolutionary at all, it was a mash up of very average knockoffs of games in other genres. So they sold it, but what now? They're not going to be able to sell creature clothing packs to bored housewives. I think they tried it with creature parts, but I can't imagine anyone picking that up (Ugh, you know what my creature needs? some FABULOUS new claws!). What can they really do to monetize that thing other than hope some 6 year old likes the primary colors in it and mom gets it for Christmas?

Again, I'm not pirating Ubisoft's stuff. I just have no desire to. I could get it in about 3 clicks, but it's just not worth my time. They've completely lost me as a PC game customer. PC gaming now is about convenience, it's the big boy's gameboy, and if I don't have access to my entire games library at a moment's notice from anywhere in the world, then really, what's the point of investing my time and money into the platform?

#88 Conuh

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 08:07 AM

You guys may have missed this a couple of years ago, or whenever this was, but when Spore was released with heavy DRM, many people in the PC gaming community were so offended that Spore became the most torrented PC game of 2008. This was not because people had "made that decision" before the DRM was announced, as Wombat suggested about the piracy of Assasins Creed. This was largely because of a backlash against DRM.

#89 sheppyboy2000

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 01:59 PM

Did any one say that? No, But if a company cripple's a game with DRM that only promotes pirating....

Condensed for space...

1. Why does that HAVE to promote pirating? It only PROMOTES pirating if you're a self-entitled prick. Period. If you feel that Red Alert 3's DRM is too restrictive and that entitles you to a free copy of the game, that isn't promotion. That shows a complete lack of morality. Restrictive DRM should, instead, promote a "no bai." That's as far as your rights, as a consumer, go.

2. Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 1943 are right at the top of DICE's worklist, let me tell you. That's why we're still waiting for a 9 month old game and DICE's is busting ass on medal of Honor's multiplayer...

3. With the EA Financials came Spore sequels on several platforms excluding only PSP and PS2. Mentioned focus on "next gen platforms." There typically is more to those financial stories than the one sentence summary Kotaku likes to do.

4. Okay, fair enough. But hey, remember back in 2008, when many, many of EA released titles came out day and date with the PC version or just about a month behind? Remember when Command & Conquer didn't require you to be online to play? Remember when a Visceral deved game hit PC as well and Mirror's Edge was delayed to add a shitton of PC exclusive features like PhysX support? Because I remember. And aside from BC2 talking about dedicated server support and Dragon's Age DLC, have you seen EA getting excited about ANYTHING they;re doing this year on PC? I certainly haven't. Hell, even the new Command & Conquer prelaunch hype is much lower than before Red Alert 3 got pirated to hell and back.

And finally, yes. The developers could, in fact, see lack of sales simply being that consumers will not buy on the platform. That's certainly how lazy PS3 devs saw lack of sales when their buggy, ugly year late ports to PS3 didn't sell. But that's where the other part comes in. You know, supporting the companies that DON'T do this. Show PC as a viable platform instead of the afterthought.

Because, in the end, your sales and your torrents do matter. If the money you were going to spend on Spore or Red Alert 3 went to Company of Heroes or Dawn of War II instead, guess what? That shows EA that RTS is still viable as a genre, just that there's SOMETHING people didn't like about Red Alert 3. But if the game, from a moral high ground, gets pirated to hell and back, then those numbers count too. Those numbers essentially say, "no matter what you do, we're going to steal."

And I say this because DRM wasn't something invented in a secret lab to screw over consumers. DRM was created AS a reaction to theft. And that's the part that annoys me. The pirates DO have a role in why this stuff keeps happening. And as long as the reaction to these moves is "your protections don't bother us, we'll get past them," then the message by action is NOT "we stole because of your DRM" but rather "we steal because we steal." And ultimately the focus is either quit making the kinds of games theives want (kind of like the PC Sims 3 EA focus), or just keep locking stuff down until you find the true lockdown.

#90 itachiitachi

itachiitachi

Posted 28 February 2010 - 04:11 PM

Condensed for space...

1. Why does that HAVE to promote pirating? It only PROMOTES pirating if you're a self-entitled prick. Period. If you feel that Red Alert 3's DRM is too restrictive and that entitles you to a free copy of the game, that isn't promotion. That shows a complete lack of morality. Restrictive DRM should, instead, promote a "no bai." That's as far as your rights, as a consumer, go.

It promotes pirating the same way parking a unattended Porsche in the ghettos of Detroit for 2 hours with the doors unlocked windows open the engine running and your wallet on the seat promotes stealing.
Ya if we where in a perfect world it wouldn't matter, but we are not, so you take actions which encourage people to make the right choice, which in this case is making the legit version better than the pirated version.

2. Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 1943 are right at the top of DICE's worklist, let me tell you. That's why we're still waiting for a 9 month old game and DICE's is busting ass on medal of Honor's multiplayer...

You are they one who brought up battlefield and said it was now a console franchise, don't try to change the subject just because you where wrong.
Dice may not be focusing on the battlefield games I don't know, but I know that battlefield is still a PC franchise and as they have sold millions of copies I think they will continue it.

3. With the EA Financials came Spore sequels on several platforms excluding only PSP and PS2. Mentioned focus on "next gen platforms." There typically is more to those financial stories than the one sentence summary Kotaku likes to do.

Well then do your research, spore is only out on PC and Nintendo consoles and there are no plans to bring it to the 360 or ps3 anymore.

4. Okay, fair enough. But hey, remember back in 2008, when many, many of EA released titles came out day and date with the PC version or just about a month behind? Remember when Command & Conquer didn't require you to be online to play? Remember when a Visceral deved game hit PC as well and Mirror's Edge was delayed to add a shitton of PC exclusive features like PhysX support? Because I remember. And aside from BC2 talking about dedicated server support and Dragon's Age DLC, have you seen EA getting excited about ANYTHING they;re doing this year on PC? I certainly haven't. Hell, even the new Command & Conquer prelaunch hype is much lower than before Red Alert 3 got pirated to hell and back.

Actually I have never been that interested in EA's offering so I wouldn't know.

And finally, yes. The developers could, in fact, see lack of sales simply being that consumers will not buy on the platform. That's certainly how lazy PS3 devs saw lack of sales when their buggy, ugly year late ports to PS3 didn't sell. But that's where the other part comes in. You know, supporting the companies that DON'T do this. Show PC as a viable platform instead of the afterthought.

Because, in the end, your sales and your torrents do matter. If the money you were going to spend on Spore or Red Alert 3 went to Company of Heroes or Dawn of War II instead, guess what? That shows EA that RTS is still viable as a genre, just that there's SOMETHING people didn't like about Red Alert 3. But if the game, from a moral high ground, gets pirated to hell and back, then those numbers count too. Those numbers essentially say, "no matter what you do, we're going to steal."

I don't think you got my point, If to protest a game nobody buys it and no body pirates it the company is not going to be jumping for joy just because no one pirated the game.

And I say this because DRM wasn't something invented in a secret lab to screw over consumers. DRM was created AS a reaction to theft. And that's the part that annoys me. The pirates DO have a role in why this stuff keeps happening. And as long as the reaction to these moves is "your protections don't bother us, we'll get past them," then the message by action is NOT "we stole because of your DRM" but rather "we steal because we steal." And ultimately the focus is either quit making the kinds of games theives want (kind of like the PC Sims 3 EA focus), or just keep locking stuff down until you find the true lockdown.

1.DRM does nothing to stop piracy their is no "lockdown" if there were the would be no piracy.
2.DRM does encourage stealing, it ruins games and spits in gamers faces. spore with is invasive DRM was the most pirated game of all time it sold an estimated 2 million copies, That DRM was removed for sims 3, sims 3 not only was pirated less than spore(sims 3 was only the 2nd most pirated game of 2009) it's estimated to have sold almost 6 million copies and it is still selling. You can see a similar effect with MW2, while there where no DRM problems, inifityward did spit in PC gamers faces and as a result it sold poorly but was the most pirated game of 2009. while other recent fps S.T.A.L.K.E.R TF2 ect... sold much better and had much less piracy.

3.Indy developers with no DRM at all have managed to have retail games that sell 500,000+(it won't surprise me if AC2 sells less than this)


There is piracy on the PC that's a fact and no amount of DRM is going to get a pirate to buy your game.
There are also millions of PC gamers that buy game.
There are also millions of PC gamers that do both.

Sure companies have to deal with piracy and there a 2 ways to do this.

Companies can either antagonize their customers by accusing them of piracy. Show that they mean it by including DRM that cripples the game. Then expect the people they just called thieves not to get the better version of the game, early, with no need to leave the comfort of their home, and with out paying money to people who just spat in their faces.

Or they can accept the fact that some people are going to steal no matter what they to do, show your trust of people by having only cd-keys, reward the paying customers with the best version of they game, and have incentives for the people on the fence to choose the legit version.
Which version do you think will end up in more sales?(hint wombat thinks it is the first option)

Edited by itachiitachi, 28 February 2010 - 04:16 PM.
grammer and spelling