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The "Stay Classy, Republicans" Super Nintendo Chalmers Thread


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#3031 nasum

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 06:16 PM

http://news.yahoo.co...-223358558.html
So I'm anti-lesbian in the US but want to give them children away from home?

Either way, it'll be more interesting if it comes out that he was actually shagging the lesbians as opposed to some sort of "procedure". On the other hand, it's kind of funny to think about the guy jerking off into a cup...
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#3032 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:27 PM

Stories like that warm the cockles of my heart.
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#3033 MSI Magus

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:27 PM

Was she forced to take calculus or did she choose to? Plenty of schools let you choose. Most do try to at least tailor the gen ed requirements to your degree. I ahd to take statistics because my degree was technically a business degree.


She was forced to take both Calc and Statistics. Statistics at least makes sense though.

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#3034 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:29 PM

You'd have to ask the individual schools about that, I have no idea what their reasoning is. Unless there is a need for it in a particular field, I think gen-ed stuff should be up to the student to decide, which it largely is.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

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#3035 dmaul1114

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:01 PM

That just varies by university, and within universities it varies by college and department. Some majors you have lots of flexilbility in your general ed requirments, other majors map out very specific curriculum and sometimes have some baffling required gen ed courses.

I agree it should be flexible beyond things clearly needed for that major and have not good answer to why it is not. The skeptic in me would say it's some back door dealings between departments to help bump credit hours in certain courses. As many state university budgets are now majority funded by tuition and fees (i.e. state funding is less than 50% of budget in a lot of state schools now--including mine) there's a lot more emphasis on how many credit hours departments are generating as that's where the money is coming from.

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#3036 dohdough

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:13 PM

Fixing higher education doesn't solve the k-12 problem. Which leads to things like people saying that calculus is useless.

Calculus, along with other advanced theory, isn't just about learning to do advanced math; it's about being able to conceptualize problems to solve them ie applying theory to practice aka praxis.

#3037 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:16 PM

But calc isn't the only class where one can do that, that's the point.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

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#3038 dmaul1114

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:18 PM

Yeah, the the Calculus class I took in college didn't really focus much on any problem solving skills. It was just being able to work through equations and remember the equations for the exams.

There are a lot better courses to teach problem solving in. Especially with how bad students are at math in the US--hard to get any emphasis on problem solving in a Calculus class with all the math anxiety students have etc. that make it hard enough to just teach the needed computational skills.

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#3039 dohdough

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:22 PM

But calc isn't the only class where one can do that, that's the point.

I don't completely disagree, but there'd just be some other off-topic gen-ed requirement that some people will bitch about. Calculus was just an example.

The skyrocketing cost of higher ed along with commoditization of the industry, and a large industry at that, are large issues, no doubt. At the same time, they're large issues within larger issues that are a lot more abstract.

#3040 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:22 PM

If you wanted to teach problem solving skills do it in classes where it matters, like the social sciences. Discuss solving society's problems. Dealing with income inequality in an sociology class, or resource scarcity in a geography class, unemployment in economics etc..
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#3041 dohdough

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:42 PM

If you wanted to teach problem solving skills do it in classes where it matters, like the social sciences. Discuss solving society's problems. Dealing with income inequality in an sociology class, or resource scarcity in a geography class, unemployment in economics etc..

Who gives a shit about that commie stuff when most people go to college to rise above that commie bullshit.

Most people are a lost cause and have been failed by our k-12 education system by the time they reach college to learn about that stuff. Most people are serfs by design because of that system. Hoover(or Coolidge or whoever) said that the education system in the US is meant to produce workers and industrialists by making sure most are workers and a few industrialists to direct them. It's to further entrench a caste system, not overthrow it.

#3042 dmaul1114

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:55 PM

That may be true, but it's still easier to teach problem solving in social science classes and the like than in something like Calculus where it's a struggle for most students to just do the computational work.

And that seems kind of moot as they can come up with conservative solutions to problems. We may not like what they come up with, but they can learn problem solving skills regardless of whether we like the solutions they decide on.

The key is seeing whether they can see both sides of an issue and come up with solutions that make logical sense given their stances on the issues, whether they can support those stances with empirical research evidence etc.

I keep politics out of my classes as much as possible in terms of trying to sway students to any view point on an issue. I just want them to see both sides of the issue, gain some skills needed to think critically about the issues (including being able to read and understand empirical research). Whether their views change or not is up to them.

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#3043 MSI Magus

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:15 PM

Fixing higher education doesn't solve the k-12 problem. Which leads to things like people saying that calculus is useless.

Calculus, along with other advanced theory, isn't just about learning to do advanced math; it's about being able to conceptualize problems to solve them ie applying theory to practice aka praxis.


Can you ever respond to anyone on even a small issue that you disagree upon without being a total dick? Honestly iv said it before and ill say it again...you are just a leftist Knoell.

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#3044 nasum

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:16 PM

Fixing higher education doesn't solve the k-12 problem. Which leads to things like people saying that calculus is useless.

Calculus, along with other advanced theory, isn't just about learning to do advanced math; it's about being able to conceptualize problems to solve them ie applying theory to practice aka praxis.


exactly why I had to learn geometry for a finance/accounting degree. Then again, it hasn't helped my Geometry Wars 2 scores all that much either.

Most people are a lost cause and have been failed by our k-12 education system by the time they reach college to learn about that stuff. Most people are serfs by design because of that system. Hoover(or Coolidge or whoever) said that the education system in the US is meant to produce workers and industrialists by making sure most are workers and a few industrialists to direct them. It's to further entrench a caste system, not overthrow it.

So you saw Waiting For Superman too eh?
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#3045 MSI Magus

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:17 PM

That may be true, but it's still easier to teach problem solving in social science classes and the like than in something like Calculus where it's a struggle for most students to just do the computational work.

And that seems kind of moot as they can come up with conservative solutions to problems. We may not like what they come up with, but they can learn problem solving skills regardless of whether we like the solutions they decide on.

The key is seeing whether they can see both sides of an issue and come up with solutions that make logical sense given their stances on the issues, whether they can support those stances with empirical research evidence etc.

I keep politics out of my classes as much as possible in terms of trying to sway students to any view point on an issue. I just want them to see both sides of the issue, gain some skills needed to think critically about the issues (including being able to read and understand empirical research). Whether their views change or not is up to them.


Thank you. You do not need to take Calc to learn how to solve problems. One has nothing to do with the other. My wife has been promoted to a managerial role at every company she has ever worked at in pretty much record speed because of her problem solving skills. She at 2 of her last 3 businesses restructured entire programs saving the company crap tons of money. So again to simply say you must take calc to learn how to solve problems is a joke. Again if anything a smart kid like my wife disproves how little Calc relates in that area.

But hey, dohdoh always knows best.

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#3046 dohdough

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:35 PM

Can you ever respond to anyone on even a small issue that you disagree upon without being a total dick? Honestly iv said it before and ill say it again...you are just a leftist Knoell.

Did you ever read the rest of my posts regarding using calculus as an example or did you just feel like being a reactionary know-nothing in the guise of being "far-left" leaning?

edit: Oh, and calling me lefty knoell is like saying evolution and creationism is the same.

Thank you. You do not need to take Calc to learn how to solve problems. One has nothing to do with the other. My wife has been promoted to a managerial role at every company she has ever worked at in pretty much record speed because of her problem solving skills. She at 2 of her last 3 businesses restructured entire programs saving the company crap tons of money. So again to simply say you must take calc to learn how to solve problems is a joke. Again if anything a smart kid like my wife disproves how little Calc relates in that area.

But hey, dohdoh always knows best.

You obviously didn't read my other posts, but decided to take it personally anyways.

exactly why I had to learn geometry for a finance/accounting degree. Then again, it hasn't helped my Geometry Wars 2 scores all that much either.

So you saw Waiting For Superman too eh?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or relating this to the first part of the post, but no. I've never seen it and don't support charter schools.

And unless you both are advocating for a contextually relevant curriculum like the ethnic studies one in Arizona that was recently abolished, I'm not surprised that you are completely misunderstanding what I'm saying.

Edited by shrike4242, 14 December 2011 - 05:35 AM.


#3047 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:48 PM

Doh said clac was just an example, so I don't know why you all are jumping down his throat.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#3048 nasum

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:52 PM

nah, it was just a factoid from the movie about the public education system using "tracks" to develop a certain mixture of worker bees/phDs/middle management/senior management types.

And no, contextually relevant curriculum doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. Unless you're talking about trade school, in which I wouldn't need to know about horticulture for finance. Also why a marine biologist wouldn't need to know about the finer details of an internal combustion engine.
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#3049 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:55 PM

Although it could come in handy during those times when they're out to sea and the boat engine dies and the captain is found dead on the ship with a mysterious shark mouth shaped bite out of him.

It happens.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#3050 willardhaven

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:57 PM

College these days is more like deferred high school. This trend probably connects to the carrot-on-a-string that is the "middle class". First you needed two workers per household to make a decent living, then you needed two college-educated workers to make a decent living, now you need that and some fairy dust I suppose.

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#3051 MSI Magus

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:00 PM

Creating a post that is pure insult and going on to define what your position is and why you believe what you believe in later posts then getting pissy that people didnt read your mind in the first insulting post....sounds like Knoell to me.

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#3052 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:00 PM

I once pondered the escalation of education. Meaning that already a bachelor's degree means little, a master's is needed in some fields just to get in. If that trend continues it will eventually get to the point that one needs a master's degree or even PHD to get into some fields. So where does it end?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#3053 dohdough

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:47 PM

nah, it was just a factoid from the movie about the public education system using "tracks" to develop a certain mixture of worker bees/phDs/middle management/senior management types.

And no, contextually relevant curriculum doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. Unless you're talking about trade school, in which I wouldn't need to know about horticulture for finance. Also why a marine biologist wouldn't need to know about the finer details of an internal combustion engine.

They do "track" students, but I'm guessing not like how the movie is suggesting.

Creating a post that is pure insult and going on to define what your position is and why you believe what you believe in later posts then getting pissy that people didnt read your mind in the first insulting post....sounds like Knoell to me.

I don't see how saying that k-12 being broken leads to people seeing subjects like calculus being useless is an insult, but feel free to knee-jerk yourself off as much as you like about it. Especially when I made it clear that calculus was one of many advanced theories that people just blow off as being useless no more than a line lower than the one you took umbrage to.

I once pondered the escalation of education. Meaning that already a bachelor's degree means little, a master's is needed in some fields just to get in. If that trend continues it will eventually get to the point that one needs a master's degree or even PHD to get into some fields. So where does it end?

Gilded Age 2 or maybe neo-feudalism, but what the difference really?:lol:

#3054 willardhaven

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:14 AM

Creating a post that is pure insult and going on to define what your position is and why you believe what you believe in later posts then getting pissy that people didnt read your mind in the first insulting post....sounds like Knoell to me.


Who cares? He's proven he has the intelligence to back his positions.

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#3055 BigT

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:39 AM

Well, note that he just said it wasn't cost effective for the individual, not that it wasn't good for society.

Just thinking in monetary terms, it isn't cost effective for an individual to spend the money on college if it doesn't get them a career that pays more than what they would have got out of high school or could have gotten after a 2 year trade school period etc.

Plus, I think it's a tad delusional to think that everyone who goes to college and graduates really becomes educated and well rounded. As a professor I can tell you most students are just there to get a degree as they think they have to to get a job. The bulk of these are on the "C's get degrees" track and don't give a shit about really learning anything. They just do the bare minimum to skate by and graduate.

The only ones who are going to really be educated and become well rounded are those who are truly interested in learning and becoming well rounded and put full effort into their studies as they're truly passionate about it, rather than just wanting a piece of paper they think they need to get a decent job (and in many cases do as so many professions require degrees when they're really not needed these days).

And most of those types are interested in grad school or law school etc., at least in my field.

So I'd agree with Big T. There's lots of people in college who shouldn't be there as they don't have any real interest in being there, aren't going to get much out of it, and it won't end up being cost effective for many of them. They're just wasting their time and money and wasting my time by not being engaged in their studies.


I agree with the above... nicely said.

Personally, I'm a huge proponent of universities... I like spending my time thinking about deep problems when work doesn't get in the way... although, even then, I'm lucky enough to be able to make that interesting too.

I'm a product of several UC schools over the years... I'm still affiliated with one... they just can't get me to leave ;) (but I like this education/research/teaching stuff)

From what I've seen, effective education and "well-roundedness" tends to come from within. I've seen my share of pre-meds who didn't give a crap about physics, chemistry, and even biology, but would either gain access to old multiple choice questions (that tend to get recycled) or would take review courses and would memorize stereotyped question patterns (there's only so many types of question one can ask) and would end up with a 4.0 GPA without really learning much... other than how to play the system. Conversely, I've also seen highly intelligent and eccentric people who really learn things, but don't study question patterns or tend to over-think questions and do somewhat worse. And then there was the large majority who were just there because... well because they were expected to go to college... they didn't really care about their classes and would try to do enough to just get by (mind you, this was not at a community college; this was at one of the highest ranked public universities in the USA)!

I totally agree that the populace should strive to be educated. However, with the advent and evolution of the internet, colleges no longer hold a monopoly on information. Going to college is simply not a cost-effective method of becoming educated and well rounded! The truth is that for many people it is an expensive investment that does not yield great dividends... now don't get me started on how in response to budget shortfalls, UC tuition gets raised while administrator's salaries also get raised, and the number of available classes gets cut (quite brazen as this is all public information!)

#3056 MSI Magus

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:13 AM

Who cares? He's proven he has the intelligence to back his positions.


Who cares? Seems rather hypocritical in a topic titled "stay classy" to give people insulting each other a pass. Then again I guess as long as someone agrees with you who cares how "classy" they act. The lack of class is the main reason I post so infrequently and why this entire board and in general any sites political board is seen as the asshole of the forums.

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#3057 cindersphere

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:10 AM

Who cares? Seems rather hypocritical in a topic titled "stay classy" to give people insulting each other a pass. Then again I guess as long as someone agrees with you who cares how "classy" they act. The lack of class is the main reason I post so infrequently and why this entire board and in general any sites political board is seen as the asshole of the forums.

And your ad hominem attack was the higher road?
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#3058 Clak

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 02:21 PM

I agree with the above... nicely said.

Personally, I'm a huge proponent of universities... I like spending my time thinking about deep problems when work doesn't get in the way... although, even then, I'm lucky enough to be able to make that interesting too.

I'm a product of several UC schools over the years... I'm still affiliated with one... they just can't get me to leave ;) (but I like this education/research/teaching stuff)

From what I've seen, effective education and "well-roundedness" tends to come from within. I've seen my share of pre-meds who didn't give a crap about physics, chemistry, and even biology, but would either gain access to old multiple choice questions (that tend to get recycled) or would take review courses and would memorize stereotyped question patterns (there's only so many types of question one can ask) and would end up with a 4.0 GPA without really learning much... other than how to play the system. Conversely, I've also seen highly intelligent and eccentric people who really learn things, but don't study question patterns or tend to over-think questions and do somewhat worse. And then there was the large majority who were just there because... well because they were expected to go to college... they didn't really care about their classes and would try to do enough to just get by (mind you, this was not at a community college; this was at one of the highest ranked public universities in the USA)!

I totally agree that the populace should strive to be educated. However, with the advent and evolution of the internet, colleges no longer hold a monopoly on information. Going to college is simply not a cost-effective method of becoming educated and well rounded! The truth is that for many people it is an expensive investment that does not yield great dividends... now don't get me started on how in response to budget shortfalls, UC tuition gets raised while administrator's salaries also get raised, and the number of available classes gets cut (quite brazen as this is all public information!)

To keep the business language train going, what about the dividends earned by society when we have a more educated populace?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#3059 dmaul1114

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 03:03 PM

Again, I think everyone agrees having a more educated populace is a good thing.

But it just doesn't make sense for everyone to go to college. Some just can't afford it, and paying for it totally with loans isn't a great idea unless you're doing everything you can to get a degree that has a pretty good job forecast in this crappy economy. And many just aren't cut out for it.

If we want to have a more educated populace, the best thing to do is fix K-12 so kids are prepared to learn throughout life regardless of whether they go on to college or not.

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#3060 nasum

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:25 PM

http://www.siouxcity...f3dbb0c37f.html

I suppose that's good for her, since it's about the only qualification she has for the job...
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