Urologist tells Obama supporters to go elsewhere

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/us/03doctor.html

[quote name='NYtimes']
MIAMI — Doctors take the Hippocratic oath promising to do no harm, but once that requirement is fulfilled, do they have a right to choose patients based on politics?

One Republican urologist outside Orlando has stirred up a tempest by suggesting that they do. A sign hanging this week in the office of Dr. Jack Cassell clearly states a preference for patients who agree with his opposition to the president, and to the recently passed health care overhaul.

“If you voted for Obama,” says the taped-up sign, “seek urologic care elsewhere. Changes to your healthcare begin right now. Not in four years.”

Perhaps it was just a matter of time before the partisan rancor surrounding health care found its way into patient care. Civil rights law prevents discrimination based on sex or religion, but experts say that political differences are not specifically protected — consider it a pre-existing condition that can still be used for patient filtering.

The logic for some, especially here in a contentious swing state like Florida, seems to be simple: Stand up and stay separated. If states, counties or towns can be red and blue, Republican and Democratic, why not every place within those areas? Why not make sure that even in doctors’ offices people can feel secure in knowing they are sharing space with those who are share their views?

Dr. Cassell, 56, could not be reached for comment. The phone at his office was continuously busy Friday, and the doors were locked before 4 p.m.

In an interview with The Orlando Sentinel, he insisted that he would not refuse to treat a patient because of politics. “That would be unethical,” he said.

But he added that he would not mind if Democrats saw the sign and found another doctor. His wife is a Republican candidate for the local county commission. And Mount Dora, where Dr. Cassell’s office is located, is a town of 10,000 that leans conservative, so perhaps his position is just smart family politics.

That seemed to be the case Friday afternoon, when an older man in a yellow shirt dropped a letter of support into the doctor’s mailbox. Several passers-by also praised the doctor for taking a public stand against the health care overhaul.

“You’re going to see this more and more,” said Bob Cowan, 58, “People are very angry.”

Patients who disagree may feel less inclined to speak up. At least one patient referred to Dr. Cassell has sought care elsewhere, according to the office of Representative Alan Grayson. Mr. Grayson, a Democrat who was one of the boldest supporters of health care in the House, represents the neighborhood where Dr. Cassell’s office sits. His response was characteristic outrage.

“I think it’s disgusting,” he said. “I know that most people go into health care because they want to help sick people. They don’t have some political agenda. I think it’s outrageous that someone would try to press his political agenda.”

He added, “I think the sore losers are out in force.” [/QUOTE]

I saw an interview with him on CNN last night. He believes he is informing people about the health care debate. He also said he still has a lot of business and will still treat Obama supporters if they come inside.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Not sure what he is doing to 'inform' people, that sign certainly doesn't foster debate.[/QUOTE]

He could have just put up a sign saying: "Hey, Obama supporters! Piss off!!" (sorry)
 
I think it’s outrageous that someone would try to press his political agenda.

BEST LINE FROM A CAREER POLITICIAN EVER!

I'd almost pay to have a poster of this guy's face with his quote on it.

[quote name='IRHari']Not sure what he is doing to 'inform' people, that sign certainly doesn't foster debate.[/QUOTE]

Obviously, it does. We're talking about it on CAG. CNN ran a story on it.
Now, at what level it actually *helps* anything - well, that's up for grabs. But the sign is getting some attention. ;)
 
It fosters debate, but debate about the sign, not debate about the bill. We're talking (and other media outlets) are talking about whether its ethical or not, instead of, yknow, the bill and whats actually in it.
 
Man, I wish I had something more than MSPaint loaded on this computer...

grayson_low_res.jpg
 
He was talking about in the doctor's office. They treat you, boom, thats it. Done. No politics, none of this 'if you support Obamacare gtfo $$$'.

[quote name='UncleBob']I agree. Personally, I'd like to see some jail time involved.[/QUOTE]

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7028284&postcount=17

Jeez, Bob, don't you think thats kind of a harsh punishment? The guy just put up a sign giving his opinion on Obamacare...

C what i did thar?
 
My "argument" isn't an argument at all. I just find it laughable that a career politician could say such a thing.

But this is an interesting idea some of you seem to bring up - individuals of certain professions shouldn't be allowed to express political viewpoints within their own businesses? Interesting.

Let's say Walmart decided they were going to terminate every single employee that parked a vehicle on their parking lot with an Obama political bumper sticker on it. I mean, you go to Walmart to buy cheap crap from China, boom, that's it - no politics. Who wants to be assaulted by ugly political signs when shopping?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']My "argument" isn't an argument at all. I just find it laughable that a career politician could say such a thing.

But this is an interesting idea some of you seem to bring up - individuals of certain professions shouldn't be allowed to express political viewpoints within their own businesses? Interesting.

Let's say Walmart decided they were going to terminate every single employee that parked a vehicle on their parking lot with an Obama political bumper sticker on it. I mean, you go to Walmart to buy cheap crap from China, boom, that's it - no politics. Who wants to be assaulted by ugly political signs when shopping?[/QUOTE]

WTF? Horrible opinion is horrible. Dude wants to express his political opinion at work? Hang up a fucking McCain poster, dude.
 
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']WTF? Horrible opinion is horrible. Dude wants to express his political opinion at work? Hang up a fucking McCain poster, dude.[/QUOTE]

That would still be politics. IRHari says "No Politics".

Besides - Does this *have* to be a political thing? Perhaps the Doctor in this situation isn't even really interested in the politics of it - he's interested in the health and future of his business. He obviously feels (for whatever reason) that Obama's policies are a threat to the future of his business. Should he not be allowed to tell people who he feels aren't good for the future of his business to go elsewhere?

I wonder if this is the future of health care ran under the government. If you speak out, we'll register complaints against you and try to get you shut down.
 
They treat you irrespective of your politics. The sign clearly singles out Obamacare supporters. Obamacare is a political issue (and it may be deadly, as one topic suggests).

I never said no politics expressed, I'm saying politics should not affect the job.
 
In an interview with The Orlando Sentinel, he insisted that he would not refuse to treat a patient because of politics. “That would be unethical,” he said.

I'm pretty sure the article made it clear that no one was going to be turned away because of their politics. So... umm... what's your point again?
 
He's targeting a group of his patients, and the sign clearly says go away Obama supporters. I don't know what's more political than that.

If one of his patients, say an elderly one, didn't have access to a series of tubes or a newspaper and didn't see that interview, they'd see the sign and think 'fuck, better go somewhere else.' That is exactly what you DON'T want to happen.

Merely targeting the Obama supporters in the first place is what's wrong here.
 
He wouldn't turn them away outright but he is sure as hell driving some way and making some of those who stay uncomfortable.

Supposedly the guys wife is a republican party official or is running to be.
 
[quote name='IRHari']He's targeting a group of his patients, and the sign clearly says go away Obama supporters. I don't know what's more political than that. [/quote]

If the Doctor in this situation feels that GroupX is harmful for the future of his business, should he not be allowed to discourage GroupX from continuing to use his business? Should it make one lick of difference is GroupX is political or not?

Merely targeting the Obama supporters in the first place is what's wrong here.

So... It's okay to have express a political message in the workplace, so long as your political message isn't /targeted/ toward a specific group of people?
 
It's not a big deal. He is not refusing to treat patients that support Obama, he's only expressing a preference that they go elsewhere. In fact, he's hurting himself with the bad publicity. He'd better be a top-flight urologist or else he is going to see his referral base dry up pretty quick. However, it does demonstrate that there is a lot of frustration in the medical profession at how the physician perspective has been largely ignored.

It's not a secret that I'm dead set against this current health care reform bill but I leave my politics outside of the office.

As an aside, many doctors do discriminate to some degree as to who they treat. Many for example will not treat lawyers, especially those who are medical malpractice attorneys. It's perfectly kosher as long as you don't discriminate based on a protected class.
 
[quote name='dopa345'] It's perfectly kosher as long as you don't discriminate based on a protected class.[/QUOTE]

Some of you - yourself, this doctor, Unclebob - need to read up on the Hippocratic Oath.

More fun things to consider:

AMA states you cannot refuse patient care for various individual beliefs.

Shit reviews on Vitals.com.

[quote name='[email protected]']
This guy's a real winner. First, he practices the most severe form of intimidation in a medical environment evidencing a deplorable, reprehensible, and entirely unethical medical standard.

But the real kicker is that, if we didn't understand it already from such behavior, he's unequivocally third rate: 1. after graduating from Rutgers in 1976, he could not even get into a United States Medical School. So, he deferred for two years and finally settled at St. George's University School of Medicine in GRENADA! - where it appears it took him FIVE years to graduate. 2. after that, it was one lackluster appointment after the other.

Anyone reading his own writings finds nothing but a bitter, bitter and sorry old man. Just what you want in a compassionate Physician, huh? Heal thyself first, idiot, then work on the healthcare system. Intellectually, "Doctor," you can't hold a stethoscope to President Obama.

Yet another twist to this scam: ... from the Orlando Sentinel cited article, page two: "Cassell, whose lawyer wife, Leslie Campione, has declared herself a Republican candidate for Lake County commissioner...." Just perhaps this is all part of a marketing and publicity campaign to garner attention for the wife's political objectives?

(A repeat of my post in the Comments Section of the ORLANDO SENTINEL Article)
[/quote]

Classy.
 
I wouldn't mind anyone being against the new law if there was at least one person out there who could actually explain why, dopa never did actually get around to it in a coherent fashion and I would bet it is the same for the dick juggler in question.
 
[quote name='Strell']AMA states you cannot refuse patient care for various individual beliefs.
[/QUOTE]

He is not refusing to see any patients. Did you forget that, or do you just like to ignore it?

The Vitals.com reviews are a joke. How many of those reviews actually came from people who have been to this doctor's place of business? I'd be interested in seeing the site's reviews from before he put the sign up and it made national news - sadly, they only seem to go back to April 1st. One-Star Reviews like "HATEFUL MAN hung a sign on his door saying Obama voters not welcome ..." tell us nothing about his practice, his work ethic, or his bedside manner.

Oh, wait, I get it - you're saying the reviews on vital.com are ****. That makes more sense.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']He is not refusing to see any patients. Did you forget that, or do you just like to ignore it?[/quote]

Doesn't matter. How do you know he isn't going to question people in the door, or provide poor service once they are being examined? It really bothers me that you'd be so nonchalant and understanding of this simply because he's gunning for your team. This is a guy sworn to heal and practice medicine, not a shoe salesman.

This isn't some kind of "we have the right to refuse service" thing. It's "I'm a motherfucking shithead and I'm going to completely undermine the ENTIRE reason for my profession's existence."

Come back when you find someone refusing to help rednecks, so I can laugh at your outrage about how "real" Americans are getting screwed by the health care system "Obama ruined."

On day 1, Obama should have just declared war on "all the countries with the brown people in them," so all you idiots would have gone back into your couches and pumped your fists for a few months instead of focusing on whether or not he wore a flag pin.
 
And here we go. I'm a racist because I disagree with Obamacare.

I seriously cannot believe, Strell, of all people, just played that card.
 
Yeah, I guess if you reduce the 16 bit color argument I just made into monochrome, you'd get that as my entire statement.
 
[quote name='Strell']On day 1, Obama should have just declared war on "all the countries with the brown people in them," so all you idiots would have gone back into your couches and pumped your fists for a few months instead of focusing on whether or not he wore a flag pin. [/quote]

There's really no other way to take that statement.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']There's really no other way to take that statement.[/QUOTE]

Of course there is, if you maintain any sense of reading comprehension.

1) Joke statement, who the hell cares, especially when you're zeroing in on it versus anything else in the post.

2) Racist statement, which is your mediocre mediocre weapon of choice.

3) Blowing up people and having wars = completely kosher with the American public, but using the money to fund healthcare = totally terrible oh god we're about to be Germany 1939 Year 2010 Edition (with bonus DLC included!).

I could probably think up a few more.

Good god. You guys have no problem with a DOCTOR being a shithead, and then get onto our case when a radio host routinely calls for armed action because he has no better way to express a single thought other than "them thar idgit dimmakrats gon' take yer guns and kill yer grandparents."

Don't you DARE start some third grade bullshit with me because you completely lack the ability to discern anything at ALL I've written.
 
1) A "joke" (Naw, really, I was just joshin' ya....really...) can still be racist.

3) If that was the case, you could have left out the "brown people" part.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']3) If that was the case, you could have left out the "brown people" part.[/QUOTE]

the guys on the left side of the fence (on this site) just like to say brown people.
 
Wow, Strell's not holding back....

Anyway, I'm surprised no one mentioned how Bob was saying that perhaps this doctor was afraid Obamacare would hurt the future of his business, so he logically refused customers.

Turning away customers can hurt the future of your business!
 
[quote name='Strell']Oh right. I shouldn't take cues from what I see written on Republican Tea Party signs.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't recommend it.
 
[quote name='myl0r']Wow, Strell's not holding back....[/quote]

Yeah "You disagree with Obama! That means you're racist!" is not holding back. Sadly, I never thought I'd see the day when Strell used that to support his argument.

Anyway, I'm surprised no one mentioned how Bob was saying that perhaps this doctor was afraid Obamacare would hurt the future of his business, so he logically refused customers.

Turning away customers can hurt the future of your business!

Any good small businessman knows that there are some customers that your business is better without.
 
About St. George's, you can a kind of post-bacc thing in the UK for a year and then start at St. George's. And as someone who is probably going to have to go to the Caribbean for med school (my grades aren't that GOOD but they're also not that BAD, so I'm kind of in a no man's land), I'm definitely aware of the stigma associated with foreign med schools, as the comment Strell posted points out.

That said, in the end if they can pass the standardized USMLE Step 1 which is the same for all med school graduates, thats all that counts. Clearly the dude could so, that's a non-starter. I was definitely lazy in college and it hurt me, but I'm trying to wise up here and not be a pinhead.
 
The fact that this guy apparently sees himself as a businessman first and doctor second is the worst part. Oh he's not saying he won't treat them, he's just telling them he'd rather not. It shouldn't even be legal to post things like that outside a business. It's treading a very thin line.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']The fact that this guy apparently sees himself as a businessman first and doctor second is the worst part. Oh he's not saying he won't treat them, he's just telling them he'd rather not. It shouldn't even be legal to post things like that outside a business. It's treading a very thin line.[/QUOTE]

A.) Oh, the horrors of people being allowed to post political messages on their own property.

B.) You're making the assumption that he sees himself as a businessman first. Perhaps he merely believes that Obamacare will do more harm than good and feels it better for him to make a stand now - by taking care of the patients he feels will most likely help the system in the long run, rather than hurt it.

You're a doctor. You've got 50 patients in need of assistance. Ten of those patients are violent and likely to inflict damage upon you - punching, kicking, hidden weapons, melee weapons, etc. - that will make it so you cannot help as many patients as you could otherwise (break an arm, stab your eye, etc.). Is it so wrong to address the other 40 patients first?
 
^ Richard, I have positively no clue what you just said up there or how it has anything to do with anything. It's like you're playing your "Greatest Hits" album.

Cassell: Hospice cuts in 2012…Does the government want people to die slowly?
Colmes: Do you really think the government wants people dead?
Cassell: Well I think that they’re cutting all supportive care, like nursing homes, ambulance services…
Colmes: What to you mean they’re cutting nursing homes?
Cassell: They’re cutting nursing home reimbursements
Colmes: Isn’t what they’re cutting under the Medicare plan what was really double dipping; they were getting credits and they were getting to deduct them at the same time.
Cassell: Well you know, I can’t tell you exactly what the deal is.
Colmes: If you can’t tell us exactly what the deal is, why are you opposing it and fighting against it?

http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/alan-colmes-fl-doctor-who-refuses-tre

BITCH YOU JUST GOT PUNKED BY ALAN MOTHERfuckIN COLMES.

Seriously, you lost a political debate to a liberal even FOX was willing to put on the air.

This doc's a flawless portrait of the uninformed opinions that permeate national disdain for health care reform.

Republicans: They can’t tell you exactly what the deal is, but they're against it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']^ Richard, I have positively no clue what you just said up there or how it has anything to do with anything. It's like you're playing your "Greatest Hits" album.[/QUOTE]

Lines and squiggles work together to form letters. These letters, in turn, work together to create words that have meaning. We then use these words to communicate thoughts, feelings, and ideas.
 
When you talk about a doctor's patients being violently hostile and carrying secret weapons, don't be surprised when people have no clue what you are getting at.
 
[quote name='myl0r']When you talk about a doctor's patients being violently hostile and carrying secret weapons, don't be surprised when people have no clue what you are getting at.[/QUOTE]

It's obviously an analogy.

One man can only treat so many people.
Should he treat everyone, regardless if it impacts his ability to treat people?
Or should he focus on those who he believes aren't a threat to his ability to treat people?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']A.) Oh, the horrors of people being allowed to post political messages on their own property.

B.) You're making the assumption that he sees himself as a businessman first. Perhaps he merely believes that Obamacare will do more harm than good and feels it better for him to make a stand now - by taking care of the patients he feels will most likely help the system in the long run, rather than hurt it.

You're a doctor. You've got 50 patients in need of assistance. Ten of those patients are violent and likely to inflict damage upon you - punching, kicking, hidden weapons, melee weapons, etc. - that will make it so you cannot help as many patients as you could otherwise (break an arm, stab your eye, etc.). Is it so wrong to address the other 40 patients first?[/QUOTE]
That has got to be the most asinine thing I've ever read on this forum. You're equating someone assaulting the doctor with someone who has opposing political views? Doctors shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose patients, period.

I can't believe anyone would be ok with this kind of intimidation. What if someone posted a sign saying "*insert race here* please find service elsewhere" but then tried to back peddle by saying "Oh we'll serve them, we'd just rather they go else where".
 
It's the type of analogy i've come to expect from you and the tea party train wreck. Take a simple concept, throw in violence to scare people, and then say SEE! THIS IS LIKE THIS!!!!

You do know that when someone says "they put a gun to his head" they usually aren't speaking literally.
 
Bob shows fleeting moments of insight that appear and disappear like phases of the moon.

If you'd stop entertaining his always-preposterous search for analogues, he might get the point.
 
Bob has zero self-respect and is willing to absolutely say anything to "win" the "argument" he thinks he is making.
 
Bob let me try and sum up your argument, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

The doctor should not treat supporters of Obama because Obama will hurt his business of treating people. He should let them die in the streets because their support of Obama is threatening his ability to treat other patients.
 
As far as I can tell this "Dick Doc" has done nothing against the law. Political persuasion is not a protected class. As far as the hypocratic oath is concerned he is stating that he isn't turning people away, he just wants Obama supporters to go elsewhere. He wants to be a jerk, let him be a jerk as long as he doesn't "do any harm" or break the law he can eat a dick for all I care. I would feel the same if he was offering free viagra to Obama supporters. I respect his right to run his business the way he sees fit.

The one thing I do care about is this idiot congressman who now is trying to make this about race. I believe this is what myke would refer to as a straw man. Does this guy need anymore of our attention?

One more thing, anyone who thinks that a doctor in private practice doesn't have a strong emphasis on the business side of things is mistaken. It's a business first and foremost. It has to be that way or it will fail. A medical degree isn't going to bring people through the door. It doesn't make them bad people, its a reality of economics. When you get a call for a follow up appointment, or a letter in the mail advertising the new low price on lasik, it's a sales call.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Bob let me try and sum up your argument, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

The doctor should not treat supporters of Obama because Obama will hurt his business of treating people. He should let them die in the streets because their support of Obama is threatening his ability to treat other patients.[/QUOTE]

he's a urologist in private practice. Nobody is going to die from him being an asshole.
 
If you're a humanist there's the Hippocratic oath.

If you're a Christian there's the good Samaritan parable.

If you're a Hindu there's Vaidya's oath

If you're a Muslim there's the oath of the Muslim physician

If you're Buddhist there's the entire religion.

I could go on but the point is every major system of moral philosophy promotes the idea that healers must help any individual who is hurt, regardless of that individual's characteristics (IE race, finances, ideology, etc).

Anyone who disagrees with measures designed to heal the sick is not a conservative, rather they are proposing an ideology that runs counter to centuries of conventional wisdom.
 
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