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Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill


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#121 cindersphere

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:22 PM

Last time I checked, most people assume I'm Puerto Rican or another Hispanic nationality. I can't tell you how many people come up to me and start speaking Spanish only to get frustrated because I'm not fluent.

Also, many black people of Hispanic descent are flowing across the border. Did you forget that the Spanish also held slaves in the Caribbean and Central America? Dark scary Spanish speaking people are coming across this border as we speak and if they're smart, they're making a run to the "urban" stores first.

So you're telling me that cops will automatically and correctly assume that I'm black and not Hispanic while I'm driving through the crappy state of Arizona?

As for you Uncle Bob, don't equate the institutional racism of police departments around this country with a new program by the government. With your logic, if I don't like one branch of local government, I must hate and distrust EVERY branch of local, state, and federal government. You make no sense, dude.

But who remembers Latin Mullatos in this day and age?
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#122 depascal22

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:21 PM

But who remembers Latin Mullatos in this day and age?


Obviously, not anyone that seems to care so much about immigration.

#123 JolietJake

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:42 PM

We really need to just do one of the following:

A) Repeal all immigration laws and abolish the INS. Put neon signs on the border that say "Abierto para todos!"

or

B) Start enforcing our existing laws.


Why is it more complicated than that? Why do so many people think we can, and should, do something in-between?

But official languages of Canada are French and English. Wait, you weren't thinking about the northern border.

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#124 IRHari

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 09:38 PM

That's easy. Look at the news headlines. We don't have the political will to threaten 20+ million potential voters.


Agreed. If there's one thing I can agree with Glenn Beck on, it's that immigration reform is about which party can kowtow to Hispanic population to get their votes.
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#125 Msut77

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:20 PM

But who remembers Latin Mullatos in this day and age?


Mariah Carey fans?

Irhari:

It isn't even so much the potential voter thing as what is going on in Arizona is pissing off a lot of Americans who are Hispanic but born and raised here, they have legitimate fears of being harassed if others state try what AZ has.

#126 IRHari

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:23 PM

Agreed, and I don't even think it's the written law itself that's pissing people off, but the enforcement of that law, which will foster racial profiling.

Bush's push for immigration reform isn't that dissimilar from what a Democrat would propose, and it was defeated. But it would have created a ton of Hisp votes for Repubs if it had passed, thats for sure. Even if it passed through a Democrat controlled Congress. That's why I think it's more a political ploy than doing what's best for the country.

Admittedly, I don't know what's best for the country regarding immigration reform. Maybe the political ploy is what's best for the country. I dunno. Meh.
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#127 abouttandoutt

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 11:35 PM

i guess according to brewer they're going to be looking for the white people jumping over the border to the us or the asian people they won't be looking for any hispanic folk

#128 62t

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 11:41 PM

Mariah Carey fans?

Irhari:

It isn't even so much the potential voter thing as what is going on in Arizona is pissing off a lot of Americans who are Hispanic but born and raised here, they have legitimate fears of being harassed if others state try what AZ has.


Plus the fact that Arizona used to belong to Mexico means that some of those people been in the state for generations before it even became a part of US

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#129 Msut77

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 11:54 PM

Haha, I said something like that once to someone once and they looked me as if I had nine heads.

#130 D_Icon

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:15 AM

I wonder if the police will also suspect the agricultural laborers of committing a crime or any other labor market where the majority workers are barely paid a minimum wage. Now that's the real crime, pay workers what they deserve. Maybe after saving enough they'll move back to Mexico. This law is bs, it targets those who the US (Arizona) feels it has no need for. Yet, where is the minimum wage reform? The one that will investigate and heavily punish suspected employers of hiring workers and breaking the minimum wage law.

It's also bs how some agricultural work is not required to have a minimum wage. I can't wait for the time when Latinos are the predominant people in the US. This country will be be New Mexico... wait that name is already taken. How about United States of Latinos?

#131 D_Icon

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:17 AM

Plus the fact that Arizona used to belong to Mexico means that some of those people been in the state for generations before it even became a part of US


yes.

#132 Kirin Lemon

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:28 AM

It begins!

http://guanabee.com/...arizona-sb1070/

And slightly related, it looks like this douche from Alabama doesn't want Arizona to hog all the racism:


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#133 SpazX

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:53 AM

Haha, didn't know about the refried bean swastikas (linked on the same site), that's good shit.

And that campaign ad is for real?

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#134 soulvengeance

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:21 AM

It begins!

http://guanabee.com/...arizona-sb1070/

And slightly related, it looks like this douche from Alabama doesn't want Arizona to hog all the racism:


I'm not going to lie, I actually agree with English being the official language for the United States. However, I think people want it for other reasons (racism, learn our language or gtfo hrrrrrrr!). For some reason, people think that if English was the official language, they would no longer have to deal with Spanish ever again, which is untrue.
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Calls this what you may, but I would say that Blacks actually benefited from the slavery. Comparing the current lives of many African Americans to Africans, one can see that the former live in much better conditions with greater freedoms and opportunities.


#135 cindersphere

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:31 AM

I'm not going to lie, I actually agree with English being the official language for the United States. However, I think people want it for other reasons (racism, learn our language or gtfo hrrrrrrr!). For some reason, people think that if English was the official language, they would no longer have to deal with Spanish ever again, which is untrue.

Exactly, this is the United States, and we should all speak the Queen's language.
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#136 IRHari

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:40 AM

I'm not going to lie, I actually agree with English being the official language for the United States. However, I think people want it for other reasons (racism, learn our language or gtfo hrrrrrrr!). For some reason, people think that if English was the official language, they would no longer have to deal with Spanish ever again, which is untrue.


So much for that 'melting pot.'
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#137 BigT

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:46 AM

1070 (the AZ law) uses the "reasonable suspicion" standard for stopping someone.

Go revisit section 13-1509 of sb1070:

This just states that they should help enforcing what is already on the books as federal law.


Hey, being in the states illegally is a crime - therefore, a person can be detained based on reasonable suspicion of being here illegally.

I disagree with your interpretation. By the letter of the law

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON,
26 EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION. ANY
27 PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED
28 BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED.

The police must have a reason for stopping you, first. Stopping a person to check their immigration status solely would be akin to a tautology. Furthermore, the law specifically prohibits this:

A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR
34 ARIZONA CONSTITUTION.

Look, I am all for immigration. Hell, I'm an immigrant myself. I feel bad for the people of Mexico - their country is a corrupt mess and the elites in Mexico do little to help the poor. If you want to see people who really hate poor Mexicans, just go to Mexico and meet their elites and see how they treat their poor!

We cannot successfully mix unrestricted immigration with wide reaching social welfare programs... we have enough problems trying to support our own poor people and we'll go bankrupt by trying to support Mexico's poor people! A state should not be required to undertake such a burden. Thus, I agree with Arizona's right to pass such a law.

#138 soulvengeance

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:53 AM

So much for that 'melting pot.'


Hey, being the child of first generation immigrants, I can understand how hard it is to adapt to a new language. However, my parents understood that to be able to get around in the United States, they would have to learn a new language, no matter how hard it was. They still spoke Vietnamese at home, so I grew up learning both languages. We still were able to keep our culture, and we all ended up being bilingual to boot. I'm not saying that people want this for the RIGHT reasons, but I don't think that it's that big of a deal that English be the official language. I think most countries have official languages, but they're still accepting of other languages. I dunno, just my opinion and experiences of course.
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Calls this what you may, but I would say that Blacks actually benefited from the slavery. Comparing the current lives of many African Americans to Africans, one can see that the former live in much better conditions with greater freedoms and opportunities.


#139 IRHari

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:54 AM

If you want to see people who really hate poor Americans, just go to America and meet their elites and see how they treat their poor!


Fixed for more accuracy.
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#140 BigT

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:56 AM

I wonder if the police will also suspect the agricultural laborers of committing a crime or any other labor market where the majority workers are barely paid a minimum wage. Now that's the real crime, pay workers what they deserve. Maybe after saving enough they'll move back to Mexico. This law is bs, it targets those who the US (Arizona) feels it has no need for. Yet, where is the minimum wage reform? The one that will investigate and heavily punish suspected employers of hiring workers and breaking the minimum wage law.

It's also bs how some agricultural work is not required to have a minimum wage. I can't wait for the time when Latinos are the predominant people in the US. This country will be be New Mexico... wait that name is already taken. How about United States of Latinos?


Your ideas are noble but misguided.

People coming from Mexico as laborers, in general, do not have many specific skills. Their biggest bargaining chip, is their willingness to work for a cheap wage. As you raise the minimum wage and enforce it more strictly, you weaken their bargaining chip and thus, instead of getting paid a low wage (that is still much higher than they would earn in Mexico), they may potentially lose their job... thus, I believe that your idea would actually hurt Mexican immigrants.

#141 BigT

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:00 AM

Fixed for more accuracy.


I take it you haven't been to many other countries... in the majority of the world, there is a much bigger divide between the high and low classes than in the US... go to India and see how untouchables are treated... go to Mexico and see how many social programs poor countryside farmers are eligible for

#142 cindersphere

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:05 AM

This just states that they should help enforcing what is already on the books as federal law.


I disagree with your interpretation. By the letter of the law
The police must have a reason for stopping you, first. Stopping a person to check their immigration status solely would be akin to a tautology. Furthermore, the law specifically prohibits this:

Look, I am all for immigration. Hell, I'm an immigrant myself. I feel bad for the people of Mexico - their country is a corrupt mess and the elites in Mexico do little to help the poor. If you want to see people who really hate poor Mexicans, just go to Mexico and meet their elites and see how they treat their poor!

We cannot successfully mix unrestricted immigration with wide reaching social welfare programs... we have enough problems trying to support our own poor people and we'll go bankrupt by trying to support Mexico's poor people! A state should not be required to undertake such a burden. Thus, I agree with Arizona's right to pass such a law.


Our constitution also prohibits illegal searches and our laws prohibited illegal wire taps. You can see how well that has worked out in this country. Reason is what police use after they have you in handcuffs.
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#143 IRHari

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:06 AM

I take it you haven't been to many other countries... in the majority of the world, there is a much bigger divide between the high and low classes than in the US... go to India and see how untouchables are treated... go to Mexico and see how many social programs poor countryside farmers are eligible for


Been to both India and Jamaica, thanks. But just because the disparity there is much larger doesn't mean that America is exempt from criticism.
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#144 UncleBob

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:17 AM

Aside from giving state and local officials the power and authority to enforce what is, essentially, a federal law - how does this Arkansas bill differ from existing federal laws regarding immigration?
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#145 Msut77

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:23 AM

I was reading something the other day that said it is one thing to live in a quasi-police state where you have to "show your papers", but we don't even really have "papers" in this country.

Not many people have a passport and almost no one carries around their birth certificate with them.

And now apparently Republicans are talking about deporting US Citizens :

http://thinkprogress...er-immigration/

#146 IRHari

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:33 AM

And what do illegals look like?
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#147 mykevermin

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:44 AM

It's cool, they're still not racists.
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#148 BigT

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:55 AM

And what do illegals look like?


At least 80% come from either Mexico or South America. They usually have moderately pigmented skin with black or brown hair indicating a higher than average melanin content. However, they may also appear Caucasian with European features. The vast majority speak Spanish predominantly. They tend to have a lower than average education level; about 50% have not completed high school. While living in the USA, they usually stratify to the lower socio-economic classes and work in low skill and low paying jobs. Overall, on the whole they appear to be a hard working people, but have difficulty breaking through to a higher socio-economic level - I believe this is predominantly because education is not highly valued in their communities and the state education system that their children are subjected to is lacking.

#149 BigT

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:56 AM

Aside from giving state and local officials the power and authority to enforce what is, essentially, a federal law - how does this Arkansas bill differ from existing federal laws regarding immigration?


It doesn't.

#150 Magus8472

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 04:34 AM

At least 80% come from either Mexico or South America. They usually have moderately pigmented skin with black or brown hair indicating a higher than average melanin content. However, they may also appear Caucasian with European features. The vast majority speak Spanish predominantly. They tend to have a lower than average education level; about 50% have not completed high school. While living in the USA, they usually stratify to the lower socio-economic classes and work in low skill and low paying jobs. Overall, on the whole they appear to be a hard working people, but have difficulty breaking through to a higher socio-economic level - I believe this is predominantly because education is not highly valued in their communities and the state education system that their children are subjected to is lacking.


It's a good thing every poor, undereducated Latino in the US is illegal. We might have a problem otherwise.

Hell, we're also lucky that the virtually all illegals in the US are poor, undereducated Latinos. Otherwise our profile might be both underinclusive and overinclusive! Whew.
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