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CAGcast #198: Techtonic Farts


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#31 Doomed

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:57 PM

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Meanwhile, after we finished recording, I got a PM from a CAG who just bought a new black Wii. He has over $1000 in downloads that he can't transfer over.

There is. Contact Nintendo.

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#32 Wombat

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 09:09 PM

And Wombat, do you watch How I Met Your Mother? You are the douche that Ted was when you start lecturing on the topics for you which you have some knowledge.


you got me on that one

#33 morph3us

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:02 PM

I wonder if EA games will cost less used, maybe 5 dollars less, so the consumer and gamestop will split the cost. This should put an end to ea games being 54.99 used the week they come out.

One thing ea didn't anticipate, is if the used game become significantly cheaper and more people buy used and don't play online. Not everyone has live, and plays online. Some people just play games with there friends, and when a game is 20 or 30 dollars less used, more people may buy it used.

#34 CheapyD

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:14 PM

Lots of good comments in here this week...thanks!

I think we all know the reason why EA and other companies play this DLC game with us...because the technology exists to do so. That's the only reason why other media formats don't do it; they can't.

The reason I am not outraged by the Online Pass is that at least I don't have to spend more than the original price of the game to gain access. I can also feel like I'm getting more value out of my day 1 purchase. It makes me crazy when I pay full price for a game only to find that the price has dropped quickly and/or their is paid DLC that really should have been there from the start.

However, the bottom line is this:

I can't recall a single piece of DLC or DLC related tech that makes me glad the system was ever implemented.

Edited by CheapyD, 13 May 2010 - 10:28 PM.


#35 usickenme

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:23 PM

you got me on that one


Oh I think we all are at times, yours is just recorded.

#36 SaintTJ

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:58 PM

Wombat, you nailed it about Capcom. Also why does it seem like your so disliked? I've listened to the show longer than I've been around the site and I personally can't see it. Great show as always guys. Thanks for making my workday suck a little less.

#37 mis0

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 11:24 PM

I'll definitely be taking a break from studying and listening to this podcast. The only thing I've looked forward to all year (gaming-wise) is E3.

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#38 CaptainJoel

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 11:28 PM

Great show as always, really liked hearing how Wombat was comparing DLC to ice cream and Cheapy's review of the Just Cause 2 DLC totally saved me 160 MSP, I know it's not much, but thanks! I know I would've been really pissed if I'd bought it and found out that I needed to re-buy it from the in-game merchant after every death. Also, I'm really anxious to hear about where Ship's going on his new press junket adventure.

Oh, and Cheapy, your singing voice had me amazed, seriously, record deal, get one.

#39 KingBroly

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 11:31 PM

Meanwhile, after we finished recording, I got a PM from a CAG who just bought a new black Wii. He has over $1000 in downloads that he can't transfer over.


And you clearly missed the part where I said 'link it to your Club Nintendo account'. When I had my Wii repaired, I had my stuff linked to it, and that's why I was able to transfer my downloads over to it. Since he's spent over $100 on downloads, he would probably qualify for the special treatment you were discussing.

But I'll mention this again: This problem has been known about for over 2 years, and you only now discuss it?
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#40 CheapyD

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 11:31 PM

Oh, and Cheapy, your singing voice had me amazed, seriously, record deal, get one.



Here is my first music video:
http://www.flickr.co...N00/3799903198/

#41 sheppyboy2000

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 11:33 PM

cheapy, i think the fact that you dont buy used games or that none of you guys on the cagcast are really big sports games guys is affecting your views on this whole online pass matter. i honestly felt the same as you do, because it doesnt really affect me too much but i read a comment on destructoid that turned me around completely. the comment was in reply to how game companies have to make up the money lost from used games somehow



what do you think?


Actually, when talking about Used games versus other media formats and even items, it's a stupid comparison. Yeah, I said it. It's a stupid, stupid, stupid comparison. To make such a comparison just shows someone who makes it has NO CLUE what they are talking about. Other media formats are not comparable. Allow me to explain.

When was the last time you went into a Best Buy and saw an N64 game for $85? Chances are, we're talking at LEAST 10 years ago. Now consider this, if I were to buy a copy of Gravity Kills self-titled album in that very same Best Buy, it would be the exact same price as when it converted to CD. When was that? Roughly a year before the first Mortal Kombat Movie, making this a 17 year old album that's stayed at it's exact same price all that time. Starting to see the fallacy of this argument?

Let's look at books since that's another popular outlet. Why are used book stores so popular? Well, aside from the fact that they aren't, most of what you find in a used book store is often things out of print. Book publishers actively control the availability of product through retail chains by issuing recalls and even destroying unsold stock (thus the warning in front of every book, you should never pay for a book without a cover since the cover is how stores get reimbursed for the books they throw out). Because of this, a vast majority of the books rarely get reprinted. Meanwhile, publishers would spend more to make 100 books to fulfill demand than if they just let the free market fulfill the need. The book business in general is specifically designed to bleed money out every orafice until that one hits. The theory is then as the blood rushes back in through that one hole, it will hopefully make up for the blood loss everywhere else.

I could go on but really, I just shot to **** two of the biggest arguments. Essentially this is why the used game market is such a damaging blow to the games industry. Unlike any other media, games only get one shot to make their money back. After all, until we start tuning into Halo Reach on TBS, their only shot at making money is first hand sales. Which is why any comparisons are stupid.

#42 DM1978

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:04 AM

"Techtonic Farts", sounds like another classy cagcast...



Yep, Cheapy has a "sh!t" fetish

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#43 Doomed

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:26 AM

However, the bottom line is this:

I can't recall a single piece of DLC or DLC related tech that makes me glad the system was ever implemented.

You ever get Big Surf Island? It was overpriced, but after getting 100% in Burnout Paradise, I was almost glad the system was in place. Almost.

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#44 shipwreck

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:36 AM

And you clearly missed the part where I said 'link it to your Club Nintendo account'. When I had my Wii repaired, I had my stuff linked to it, and that's why I was able to transfer my downloads over to it. Since he's spent over $100 on downloads, he would probably qualify for the special treatment you were discussing.

But I'll mention this again: This problem has been known about for over 2 years, and you only now discuss it?


Yes, the problem has been known about for 2 years. The CAGcast crew knows that. However, this is the first time a new version of the Wii has come out where people might want to make a change and get a new Black Wii. This means we get emails, this means it gets talked about, and this makes it relevant NOW. Now I know you know your stuff KingBroly, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone pays as close attention to details such as how DRM works on Nintendo systems.

Edited by shipwreck, 14 May 2010 - 02:46 AM.

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#45 CaptainJoel

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 01:44 AM

Here is my first music video:
http://www.flickr.co...N00/3799903198/

HAHAHA! Favorited! I'm proud of you, Cheapy!

#46 daminion

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 01:51 AM

One possible solution for game developers to combat the used game market is lower prices at release.

I only feel a handful of marquee titles are worth $50 or $60 the week they are released. The vast majority of games get a price drop shortly after release. (Ubisoft is infamous for this, I don't know why anyone would buy an Ubisoft title in it's first month.)

Lower prices would likely drive more purchases within the first month. Lower prices also mean that trade-in values are lower -- making it far less appealing to play and trade that game.

I won't buy anything at $60, but a $40 game like Dot Heroes is a no-brainer.

#47 TheTrueSephiroth

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:30 AM

Oh my god Cheapy! Your toilet freestyle song at the end of the podcast had me in tears!!! it rivals the "There you go" rap for best CAGcast song.

#48 Keirnoth

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:48 AM

About the DLC thing - I can tell you that the Street Fighter 4 DLC "content" wasn't even content you download at all. The data for the costumes was ALREADY ON THE DISC. I know this because of how the PC version was treated. As soon as the PC version was released, modders were able to replace the first costume with the "alternate" so-called DLC costume (the textures and such were already there, you just had to do a swap!). So what you're essentially paying for is to access that content. The DLC wasn't "lined up" with the release, it was purposely disabled before the game even came out.

What do you guys think of this kind of practice of purposefully including completed content on the final copy of the game but locking you out of it unless you pay extra money for it? Can you even call it DLC when all you're downloading is a "unlock key" to access that content? Sounds kinda low-brow to me.

Btw The toilet song at the end was AWESOME.

Also CheapyD, do you have Red Dead REVOLVER reserved? :D

Edited by Keirnoth, 14 May 2010 - 03:03 AM.


#49 Curufinwe

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 03:12 AM

This EA Online Pass thing is absolutely infuriating. As it is, they expect people to spend $60 every year for what is essentially a roster update plus some minor game tweaks. There is not that much of a difference year-to-year between games yet EA doesn't see a problem charging full price for it.


Solution: don't buy games like Madden every single year.

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#50 apathylad

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 03:12 AM

Hey guys, this was an enjoyable episode. I have a few quick comments about the EA Online Pass initiative:

I don't really care much about it right now, in that I don't buy sports games, so it doesn't concern me. I could potentially see this escalating into other genres though, which would be frustrating. I'm already paying for Xbox Live Gold, so paying extra to unlock essential features on a per game basis would be annoying, assuming used titles are all that are instock. Also, this will probably confuse a lot of customers who might not know about the EA Online Pass.

Gamestop will still profit from used sales if they price their games proportional to their value. I could easily see them promoting 1600 point cards with the purchase of a used title, and thus maximize profit.

#51 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 04:46 AM

I'm a bit behind, so I'm posting some 197 comments with 198's:

Picross is not expensive to find on DS, as I got it at the local GameStop for less than $10 used and in mint condition, though I might have been lucky to have it be available at the closest GS. It's hard to find, but not rare or expensive in the least these days. Picross 3D is a great follow-up with some nice fixes to how you succeed in completing a puzzle.

I couldn't care less about Amazon balking on allowing their feed in the CAG app. Just put it out without it and patch it in if they ever give in to the demand. There's no reason to delay this app any further if it's ready to go, unless you're hoping to pull a Duke Nukem Forever on your own site by continuing to hype it up and never actually releasing it.

It's kind of stupid to say that developers should give out all of their DLC for free if you've bought it new. Say goodbye to any substantial paid DLC (GTA IV episodes, Rock Band songs, Fallout 3 expansions, etc.) because none of them would exist if they weren't going to get paid for the extra work that's required to make them after the initial game came out.

198:

It would be really interesting to see EA games become available to play online to XBL Silver members since the Gold subscription isn't paying for EA to maintain their own servers, but it'll never happen since it would be a huge precedent for others to do the same thing and ruin the whole point of paying for Live. MMOs like FFXI and PSU don't require a Gold subscription, but it seems like MS doesn't want any more MMOs on the Xbox 360 anyway. Multiplayer's a mixed bag after a certain point for any online-enabled game, like PGR3 being an impossible 1000 points because Bizarre disabled Gotham TV within two years of that game coming out.

The whole Online Pass thing is really only affecting used buyers since you can get a seven day trial for every game with your gamertag/ID that is perfect for rentals.

I avoid buying used unless the game is discontinued or very hard to find new (Picross DS) or the used price is much cheaper than new (Elite Beat Agents), so I'd get any of these new purchase "bonuses" that EA's been doing for over two years now anyway.

Of course the DLC for black market items in Just Cause 2 works like all of the other black market items you unlock as you play the game. I can understand that that whole mechanic isn't all that great, but you should've known what you were getting into if you had played JC2 at all before buying the DLC. Even the DLC I got from GameStop and the free DLC pack they released the week it came out worked that way.

Microsoft must be saving the larger space for their performance art show that is the Natal press conference.

Cheapy came so close to a Spaceballs reference and bailed on it at the last moment.

Good show.

#52 JadedJedi

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 06:35 AM

I think EA should just release one sports game, per sport, per console generation and have the new rosters be dlc at a price of $45. People pay $60 bucks every year for just that, but on a disc. This would be a savings for EA because they won't have to pay for manufacturing and shipping, and the player will save $15.
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#53 Broken Cage

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 10:36 AM

When was the last time you went into a Best Buy and saw an N64 game for $85? Chances are, we're talking at LEAST 10 years ago. Now consider this, if I were to buy a copy of Gravity Kills self-titled album in that very same Best Buy, it would be the exact same price as when it converted to CD.


Store aside, are you sure you want to use Nintendo in your example? The company has made bank off of reselling their older titles. Yes, the price is much lower, but there's also ZERO manufacturing cost, unlike buying a pressed Gravity Kills CD. In fact, it was the carts that were so expensive to manufacture in Nintendo's cart days, compared to the relative cheapness of pressing discs today.

Furthermore, since Nintendo publishes their own games, they maintain their original price for a long while and avoid oversaturation. Super Mario Galaxy is still $49.99. Meanwhile, Activision and EA release annual titles that essentially compete with last year's release, forcing a price drop for last year's title or eliminating its sales all together as an "updated" version is released. This is still the game industry's fault. They're doing it to themselves.

Regardless, Virtual Console has made Nintendo a lot of money off of their old titles. Perfect Dark, Castlevania: SOTN, Doom, Call of Duty 1, and Duke Nukem are among the best selling Xbox Live Arcade games. Many old games are still bringing in revenue, with little to no material or manufacturing costs.

Edit: EA's own Battlefield: Bad Company, Skate 2, and Bungie's Halo (Released in 2001) are some of Xbox's best selling Games on Demand, also with no additional packaging costs.

Edited by Broken Cage, 14 May 2010 - 10:50 AM.

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#54 KillerRamen

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:41 PM

Yes, the problem has been known about for 2 years. The CAGcast crew knows that. However, this is the first time a new version of the Wii has come out where people might want to make a change and get a new Black Wii. This means we get emails, this means it gets talked about, and this makes it relevant NOW. Now I know you know your stuff KingBroly, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone pays as close attention to details such as how DRM works on Nintendo systems.


Yeah, it's very depressing. I have a launch Wii and it's been through a lot, so I would like to get one that looks presentable. I downloaded a ton of stuff when I first got my Wii, but stopped when I learned I couldn't transfer it to a new Wii.

On the plus side, this means I'm not spending $200 I don't have for a system I already own. Maybe they'll release a transfer cable or whatever when they release the Wii in Pink or some other fun color. Nintendo just doesn't seem to want my money and part of me is thankful.

...I wonder if the Gary Coleman Edition 360 will come in more colors than Black. (Black is kinda boring and my current one still runs fine.) It's also going to be kind of depressing when they announce none of the face plates or hard drives will be compatible. I have a pretty big collection of face plates and I was planning to buy an Arcade whenever my 360 gets the RROD for the 5th time. With the remodel, they're kinda forcing me to spend an extra $100 whenever the stupid thing finally dies yet again.
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#55 canestim

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:57 PM

Perfect, just in time for my long drive tonight. Also got a MBMBAM show saved up from Monday as well. These shows will make it less painful.

#56 banodyne

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 01:10 PM

Hey guys, quick clarification. When you play EA games online, you are definitely playing on EA servers. You might remember that EA will shut down servers to games they deem old or unpopular. For example, EA shut down servers to their older versions of the Madden and NBA games. People were forced to migrate to the newer versions in order to play online.

One of the major reasons I never buy EA games. When EA was the biggest games publisher they insisted they got to host to their own servers. They shut down servers and people who were playing these games are left out in the cold. Meanwhile, all other games hosted by Xbox Live are still going strong in case someone wants to play it. Heck, they supported all original Xbox games four years after the system was discontinued.

#57 Evilsean

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 01:22 PM

Great show as always. If publishers are so worried about used game sales why don't they just use the Cheap Ass Gamer price tracker for gamestop and set up they're own website that can sell new games that price match gamestop's used game of the same title. Slap some free shipping and I am sure a lot of people would rather have a new game than a used one.

And I can't believe Cheapy is even questioning whether to get an iPad or not. You are an Internet Space Pimp and you gots money. And since when have you ever bought anything you actually needed. I am sure we can start a forum thread 20 pages long with crap you have bought and not needed.

#58 ChernobylCow

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 01:46 PM

CheapyD, thanks for including the soundclip of your little toilet song. I've gotta play it for my gf. Nothing like a little improv on the squat! I mean spot.

Guys, thanks for churning out the show quite regular I really appreciate it. The last month has been hard with a death in the family and job hunting. So it is nice to have some funny and fun gentleman on hand to talk about my favorite hobby. Keep up the good work.

#59 Walt Jay

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 03:55 PM

Nice show guys. I look forward to the Xbox 360 - Gary Coleman Edition. :lol:

Also agree on the people pirating the Humble Indie Bundle. What kind of fucking asshole pirates a game being sold for charity, let alone one you can get for $1.00, heck, $0.01?
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#60 Kuromimi

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 04:15 PM

Here is my first music video:
http://www.flickr.co...N00/3799903198/


lol awesome! Good show guys!
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