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CAGcast #198: Techtonic Farts


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#61 banodyne

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 04:49 PM

I wish @Gamer magazine well, if just to give Game Informer some competition. It always ticked me off that Game Informer doesn't stand on its own merits. The only reason its numbers are so high is that GameStop hard sells it as part of the discount membership. Store clerks are even given a quota of how many to sell per week. Because the numbers are so artificially high, that's where advertisers are willing to go. I'll admit it's a brilliant business model but it is a bit of a cheat. Electronic Gaming Monthly, and other gaming magazines, were better but struggled like all other print magazines on newsstands today.

#62 TheFreshPrince

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 05:53 PM

Cheapy, Wombat, and Shipwreck,

Quit with all the DLC complaining! When has DLC ever been legitimately good, or legitimately integral to the original retail game?

The Assassin's Creed 2 DLC stunk. The game proper would have been far worse had they included these 'missing' chapters. The Mass Effect 2 DLC isn't up to caliber either, and doesn't further the main storyline in anyway. The same can be said of Resident Evil 5 DLC, etc. DLC such as costumes in SSF4 in no way hurts the main game--it's just a foolish cosmetic add-on for crazed fans.

Regardless of at what point the DLC was developed, or even if it was 'cut' from the main game, I've yet to see DLC that felt as good as, or necessary, for the main game. Borderlands and Left4Dead2 are the only ones that have come close for me, and even those add-ons aren't needed to fully enjoy the respective game.

DLC is just an easy cash-in for companies who take advantage of fanboys with spare change.

It's not a big deal at all.

#63 DrainRegain

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 07:06 PM

I followed the instructions at the end of the cagcast
i pooped, now wheres my stickers and gifts and stuff?
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#64 MotzCTG

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 08:44 PM

ClassAct can you PM me with your information for the Shred Nebula stuff.

#65 banodyne

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 08:47 PM

Hey what happens to the people who pay for EA's Online Passes then EA shuts down the servers 18 months after the game came out like they've done with every sports game this generation?

#66 beard_of_zeus

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 09:52 PM

However, the bottom line is this:

I can't recall a single piece of DLC or DLC related tech that makes me glad the system was ever implemented.


I was actually thinking about this myself. The only example of good DLC I could come up with were the Fallout 3 expansion packs. The original game was certainly crammed with enough content to stand on its own, and all the expansions were released a while after the game came out, if I recall correctly. Plus the add-ons were all pretty fun and had a lot of enjoyable content.

But in 99% of the cases, I totally agree with you; it's just the companies nickel and diming the consumer to death or selling us content from the cutting room floor because this medium of entertainment makes it oh-so-easy for them to do so.
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#67 beard_of_zeus

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 09:57 PM

Cheapy, Wombat, and Shipwreck,

Quit with all the DLC complaining! When has DLC ever been legitimately good, or legitimately integral to the original retail game?

The Assassin's Creed 2 DLC stunk. The game proper would have been far worse had they included these 'missing' chapters. The Mass Effect 2 DLC isn't up to caliber either, and doesn't further the main storyline in anyway. The same can be said of Resident Evil 5 DLC, etc. DLC such as costumes in SSF4 in no way hurts the main game--it's just a foolish cosmetic add-on for crazed fans.

Regardless of at what point the DLC was developed, or even if it was 'cut' from the main game, I've yet to see DLC that felt as good as, or necessary, for the main game. Borderlands and Left4Dead2 are the only ones that have come close for me, and even those add-ons aren't needed to fully enjoy the respective game.

DLC is just an easy cash-in for companies who take advantage of fanboys with spare change.

It's not a big deal at all.


From a personal, short-term perspective, I am inclined to agree - you don't want the DLC, you don't have to pay for it. The only thing that worries me is that since it seems a lot of people are buying this content, it tells the game companies that their foray into this sort of business model is economically viable. I hate to use a "slippery slope" argument, but I feel like people buying all this DLC has led us to things like the EA Online Pass, and that it's only going to get worse from here on out. At that point, it finally might start affecting you.
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#68 VidPower

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 12:03 AM

Another hilarious show. Awesome song diddy by CheapyD at the end.
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#69 tenma

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 01:10 AM


Also agree on the people pirating the Humble Indie Bundle. What kind of fucking asshole pirates a game being sold for charity, let alone one you can get for $1.00, heck, $0.01?


This was something I actually disagreed with them on. I may be misunderstanding the system in question, but doesn't "Pay what you want" mean "Pay what you WANT"? It's a dick move to not even toss a couple of bucks towards charity, but I don't see how that's considered pirating. It'd be like going to a museum that was free, but took donations and calling anyone who didn't donate a thief for seeing the attractions for free. If the bundle normally required you donate at least a cent and people were finding ways around even paying a cent, then I agree with what Cheapy et al were saying, but I assumed that with "Pay what you want" there was inherently the freedom to choose $0 as what you want to pay. I thought it was common knowledge that this sort of business model inherently had that risk associated with it.

Regarding EA: While I'm still ticked off with the decision it has more to do with my fears that if this move is successful it may very well establish a precedent in the gaming community. Even if you're not into sports games there has to be the realization that something like this could spread to other genres. I understand why it's being done and from a business perspective I can't really fault EA for doing it. I'm just incredulous about the belief that punitive measures work better than reward-based systems. I feel like encouraging new game purchases through worthwhile bonuses and other incentives would truly be a reward as opposed to penalizing those who are simply looking for the best value. Time will tell how successful it is, but I can't help but think of how other punitive measures in gaming and other electronic-based media have done nothing but make their respective organizations (be it the RIAA, MPAA or game publishers with crippling DRM) look like the bad guys.

Disagreed with some stuff, but it was still a great show.
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#70 reddjoey

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 02:22 AM

If the bundle normally required you donate at least a cent and people were finding ways around even paying a cent.


An article I read alluded that they were subverting the donation system all together and just direct downloading the bundle. That is piracy.


On the show:

Great show guys. I really enjoyed the poop song and the discussion on Capcom/Lost Planet 2.
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#71 Z_meista

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 03:08 AM

man, you guys (cheapy and wombat) have a thing for poop, farts and ass-washing!
great show guys.

#72 tenma

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 03:53 AM

An article I read alluded that they were subverting the donation system all together and just direct downloading the bundle. That is piracy.


But is there ultimately a difference in the real, tangible sense of the word between going through a website, choosing "$0" and downloading the title versus direct downloading it? I agree that it's unfortunate that people who may otherwise have been willing to donate for the title otherwise didn't because whichever website they got the link from never mentioned they had that option. But in the end, both methods - going through the legitimate website, donating nothing and downloading it for free vs. skipping those first two steps - still yields the same end profit for that particular transaction. I guess I can see how, in the literal sense, it's considered piracy but I suppose knowing that the openly available option of getting it for free without the work-around already existed anyway just makes me hard for me to feel that angry about it.
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#73 Midguy

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:00 AM

Good podcast as usual.

And oh yeah, the EA online pass is lame for obvious reasons

#74 Gamer SDP

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:51 AM

I think this is the first cagcast where the material for the "title" was toward the last few minutes.

also Cheapy, and chance you read my suggestion about the contest (having more winners by distributing the monies out?)

#75 Gregory_Tea

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 05:10 AM

Thank you for re-mentioning the Justin McElleroy voice comments from a few casts ago. I rarely read the show comments, i'm just a podcast fan, but thank god I checked them out.

I also started listening to Justins new podcast as a result of his appearance.

I think the comments should be aired, and I think Justin would gain much entertainment from that event.

I mean come on, you're gonna sing poop songs, discuss drugs and sex, and offend races around the world; but you're above airing some hilarious comments for guarenteed amusement?

#76 volt1up

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 07:45 AM

But is there ultimately a difference in the real, tangible sense of the word between going through a website, choosing "$0" and downloading the title versus direct downloading it? I agree that it's unfortunate that people who may otherwise have been willing to donate for the title otherwise didn't because whichever website they got the link from never mentioned they had that option. But in the end, both methods - going through the legitimate website, donating nothing and downloading it for free vs. skipping those first two steps - still yields the same end profit for that particular transaction. I guess I can see how, in the literal sense, it's considered piracy but I suppose knowing that the openly available option of getting it for free without the work-around already existed anyway just makes me hard for me to feel that angry about it.


You cant choose to pay $0
It's pay what you want, not pay if you want.

#77 Hbomb5

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 11:37 AM

Wombat,

Although I do appreciate the effort you made in avoiding the r-word, couldn't you just call the guy a moron, idiot, dope, or similar word. As someone who is on the autism spectrum, I am offended to be lumped in with this moron/idiot/dope.

Keep up the otherwise good work.
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#78 tenma

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 12:21 PM

You cant choose to pay $0
It's pay what you want, not pay if you want.


See, this is what I didn't know. This model has been used elsewhere online - Radiohead's "In Rainbows" release is one of the bigger examples - and every other time I'd seen it there was always the option to pay $0. If this wasn't the case here then I agree with what everyone else has said so far.
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#79 lvgamer1

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 01:08 PM

I didn't see anyone else respond to your comments about the coming Fallout CE (forgive me if this has already been said).

Wombat, you ignorant slut.

Do you have any idea how much a fair set of poker chips cost? Even an ultra cheap set of chips at walmart or target cost $20. Do you have any idea what a typical quantity is for a "set" of poker chips (300-500)? Do you have any idea how much this friggin' CE box would weigh if they included a whole set? Do you realize that as production quantities go down, the cost (per chip) increases?

If they did include a whole "set" of chips, they would probably be so light weight and crappy that you'd then proceed to bitch about the quality of the chips. If the CE chips included end up being crap, then you're argument has a little bit of validation - just a little.

As for the cards, again these are custom made. They may end up being crap, but they're not going to be that cheap to produce.

Assuming that all of the CE items are of fair quality, I think the extras would easily sell for about $20 on their own ($10 for the book, $5 for the cards, $5 for the chips).

Also, the damn game is Vegas-themed. What else would you have them include in the CE? Some fake crystal meth and a bottle of fake whiskey? Oh, I'm sorry, you would complain about the meth and the whiskey not being real....

Seriously, great show as always. Thanks for all the work you guys put into the CAGcast and the website (even you Wombat).

#80 SoxFan13

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 07:01 PM

I was thrilled to hear my show feedback on this week's CAGcast. I still think you guys are a little too suspicious about what is intentionally held back from retail copies of games, and what wouldn't have been made in the first place without DLC as an option. That being said, I like Wombat's take on the ice cream analogy-- something about "getting ice cream with all the toppings for 10 years, and then being told you have to pay for toppings."

Keep up the great work, and those Jean Snow references!

#81 actripxl

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 07:05 PM

Hey guys, this was an enjoyable episode. I have a few quick comments about the EA Online Pass initiative:

I don't really care much about it right now, in that I don't buy sports games, so it doesn't concern me. I could potentially see this escalating into other genres though, which would be frustrating. I'm already paying for Xbox Live Gold, so paying extra to unlock essential features on a per game basis would be annoying, assuming used titles are all that are instock.



Truth be told you deserve to pay more for the simple fact that you pay for Live. Live should have been free to begin with, but you paid so that got others in this case EA thinking that they should start charging something too. Activision can't be that far behind with coming up with something as well, its the snowball effect all because you, Cheapy, and others keep paying for Live. I refuse to pay for Live and because of that I haven't bought a single Xbox game since Gears 2 and most likely won't till Gears 3.

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Can't wait for the next Uncharted and Halo on my next-gen systems!


#82 K_G

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 07:53 PM

While not praising our new DLC overlords, I would point out that it isn’t necessarily all downside for CAGs. With Mass Effect 2, I was able to sell off the just the DLC (collectors armor, pre order bonus armor, Cerberus network code) from my collectors edition on ebay for almost as much as I paid for the entire game new.

While the ME2 armors were a specialized case with rather irrational buyer interest, I think it shows that there are some options for those that can make the effort to sell off bits of games they don’t want/need.

I’m not a big online multiplayer guy, so for me, the multiplayer competent usually doesn’t have much value. If I know that I’m going to keep a game, I’m quite able to sell off the online pass code, ultimately lowering my overall purchase price. EA may think it is putting $10 more in its pocket with this, but the odds are it is going to put $6 more in my pocket on the games I choose to keep. And on the games I sell off, that unused code is going to net a higher price compared to other copies of the game without the code.

Now not everyone is going to do this, but there will be some who will…and there will be a secondary market for these codes. If you love madden, but don’t play online, boom, now you can get a partial refund on your “online gaming tax” if you buy new…and someone else who really wants online can buy it used and pick up an online code on ebay or CAG for $7 instead of $10 worth of points. Or you can buy it used, and now that it doesn’t have access to the thing you actually don’t care about, used prices are cheaper right out the gate (ie, starting price used at Gamestop is $45 vs $55).

And while I generally agree with Cheapy’s view on DLC’s overall value, I would say that Broken Steel for Fallout 3 was a true (and literal) game changer. While some of the Fallout 3 DLC was weak, Broken Steel was both a good level and fundamentally changed how the game ended in the fact that it no longer actually ends as well as adding all sorts of interesting touches that the developer never would have thought to make during the initial game development. While some DLC is clearly designed from day one, Broken Steel was a chance for the developer to make a big changes to the game based on gamer’s wants after the game was released.

#83 Wombat

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 08:15 PM

I didn't see anyone else respond to your comments about the coming Fallout CE (forgive me if this has already been said).

Wombat, you ignorant slut.

Do you have any idea how much a fair set of poker chips cost? Even an ultra cheap set of chips at walmart or target cost $20. Do you have any idea what a typical quantity is for a "set" of poker chips (300-500)? Do you have any idea how much this friggin' CE box would weigh if they included a whole set? Do you realize that as production quantities go down, the cost (per chip) increases?

If they did include a whole "set" of chips, they would probably be so light weight and crappy that you'd then proceed to bitch about the quality of the chips. If the CE chips included end up being crap, then you're argument has a little bit of validation - just a little.

As for the cards, again these are custom made. They may end up being crap, but they're not going to be that cheap to produce.

Assuming that all of the CE items are of fair quality, I think the extras would easily sell for about $20 on their own ($10 for the book, $5 for the cards, $5 for the chips).

Also, the damn game is Vegas-themed. What else would you have them include in the CE? Some fake crystal meth and a bottle of fake whiskey? Oh, I'm sorry, you would complain about the meth and the whiskey not being real....

Seriously, great show as always. Thanks for all the work you guys put into the CAGcast and the website (even you Wombat).


The full set of chips was Cheapy's idea, not mine. I just agreed with him.

#84 ChrisTheMeat

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:46 PM

i think the project 10 dollar philosophy sucks. great, ea is getting more revenue for new games sold, but now we, the customers have to buy a game with a diminished trade in value. whatever the trade in value would have been, it is gong to be worth 10 dollars less. gamestop isn't going to take a loss, they are just going to pay less for all the games with this dumb feature.

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#85 trip1eX

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 10:15 PM

The $10 online pass is most likely going to drive the trade-in value of these games downward. This is, in effect, a price increase for all, but those gamers who never trade in said games.

OTher media can do DLC (and do so in some cases) because all media formats are now distributed electronically. Multiple versions of songs. Lost never before released songs. iTunes LP. DVD extras. Memorabilia. This stuff is DLC or same difference.

Don't forget EA hasn't made money in any year the past 4 years or so. They've lost $2 billion instead. Small wonder they are trying to put some more into their coffers with these kinds of moves.


I'm with Cheapy on ignoring previews. Always a disappointment. Used to love it as a kid myself back when most CAGs were just sperm and eggs, but CAG kids - you don't know what's good for you. These publishers are selling candy to you all. And you always want more.

The black Wii and transfer of games policy? Nintendo's customer service is pretty good. Call them up and tell them your old Wii broke so you bought a new one and would like your VC games transferred pretty please.

(If that doesnt work, then worst case, you can send both Wiis in and get the content transferred. Not saying that's good, but it certainly caps the amount of money you're out of pocket to the shipping costs.)

Edited by trip1eX, 15 May 2010 - 10:26 PM.


#86 Interfeci

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:07 AM

Cheapy sounds like he was tired (or uninterested) through most of the show.

With the bundle, it'd be very interesting to wonder what was better. Sure, there's a bandwidth cost, but for everyone saying 'They should have at least donated .01' forgets that paypal has its costs. Paying a penny leaves them with credit fees, taking away more from bored children.

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#87 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:26 AM

I approach the used games issue from another angle. Every publisher complains about the income side of the equation but no one wants to control development costs. The used market has always existed. EA has always been able to sell a ton of software at retail. The thing that has changed are development costs, which goes up exponentially every generation. Meanwhile unit sales are at record highs, but growth is much slower.

These money grabs like DLC and EA Online Pass are only kicking the can down the road. At some point someone is going to have to figure out how to control costs.

These charts are old, but the point is still relevant. The last data points are ~2003, things are radically worse now. Average 360/PS3 games cost in the $20/$30 million range. This math is unsustainable. Something in the industry has to change. Digital distribution isnt a silver bullet either.

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Edited by Dr Mario Kart, 16 May 2010 - 11:26 AM.


#88 Kerig

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 11:01 AM

Not to be the English police, but the word is "tectonic" :(

I thought the same thing, then realized it's actually referring to this:



So you see, Wombat wasn't referring to Earth-shaking flatulence, but rather Gassy gay-gay dancing.

Techtonic fart can be seen at :54, results can be seen at :58.

Edited by Kerig, 16 May 2010 - 11:14 AM.

 :3ds: 1607-3007-9618

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#89 lvgamer1

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:40 PM

The full set of chips was Cheapy's idea, not mine. I just agreed with him.



Sorry Wombat! I listen to the podcast whilst I work. I didn't catch that it was Cheapy that suggested a set of poker chips; maybe I just selectively heard you talking about them. "Wombat Ball Busting" is something of a sport on this site, after all.

I may have to retract my statement about the cards though....
I just learned (from CAG) that Rockstar gave out Red Dead Redemption playing cards at some of the midnight releases. Maybe they're not all that expensive to produce after all. I collect playing cards (poker, not TCG) and a lot of the decks that are made in fairly large quantities are still $4-$8 a piece. I'll definitely be checking out BB, Gamestop, and Walmart today to see if any of these are still available (fingers crossed).

#90 soliddragon

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:37 PM

Torchlight is an awesome Diablo Clone, only thing its missing is the multiplayer.
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