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#7081 pitfallharry219

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:07 PM

That 16gb card will be fine. You'll have plenty of room for stuff, and that's a good price for a card that size.

#7082 cgarb84

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:22 PM

Ok thanks for the replies. I have bought quite a few sd cards in my life and have also never had any issues besides a couple micros dying on me but I wanted to ask and make sure before I bought anything.

I was looking into protective cases on Amazon as well, I love the one I have for my 3ds but it seems the Hori XL case on there isn't very well reviewed. It's too big and doesn't fit the system snugly apparently. What cases do you guys have?
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#7083 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:41 PM

Isn't the speed/class rating fairly important to help the OS and all that feel as fast as possible?

#7084 Draekon

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:50 PM

Isn't the speed/class rating fairly important to help the OS and all that feel as fast as possible?


So long as the 3DS can support the transfer rate, the faster the better as it will help everything load faster and less possible loading related hiccups that could occur if there is a bottleneck at that SD card point. Basically anything installed to the card should load faster, including apps installed to it. The OS itself should be on non-removable internal memory, but when loading Home, everything on the SD card should be read faster if that causes any hiccup issues for people (probably ones with more downloaded stuff).

Class 4 is "Minimum 4MB/s" whereas Class 10 is "Minimum 10MB/s". After that you would want to read the specs on the individual cards since they are going to be different since the class level only pertains to the minimum transfer rate. SanDisk's Class 10 Cards run at around 40MB/s to 45MB/s typically. Not sure on the Class 4 card linked on the previous page.

Personally, I recommend forking over the extra money for Class 10 SDHC from SanDisk whenever you need one. Though I also don't like waiting on load times, so I try to minimize them as much as possible.

#7085 elessar123

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:20 PM

Class is mostly useless. It's a rating of sequential writes only. That pretty much only matters when copying large files.

Some Class 4s will be faster than Class 10s at random write speeds, which is what matters when saving. None of those indicate anything about reading, which is what affects loading.

#7086 VileEighty

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:54 AM

My 3DS XL came in today and I'd like to get some protective accessories for it before I start using it.

Does anyone have any recommendations as far as these things go? At a minimum, I'd like some kind of carrying case that can handle being in a backpack, a shell for the system that fits in the aforementioned case (I'm currently happy with one of these on my Vita, if that's of any relevance), and a set of screen protectors.


There's a thread on here with someone asking about 3DS XL cases, you might try there so your post isn't hidden among other unrelated ones.

I can't really talk about a case that fits the XL WITH a shell on it, but I do recommend the Hori screen protectors. I find them easy and more accurate to apply because they have a guidance system built in (if you used the HORI vita screen protector, then it's the same concept). The HORI ones are the ones with the "WOW!" on the front of the packaging lol. I'm using them now and they're not at all noticeable. super happy with em

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#7087 VideoGameCollector17

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:42 AM

Hey gamers, I'm hoping to get some help. I'm purchasing the Fire Emblem 3DS Bundle via Craigslist, and everything is pretty new. Seller played once, wasn't his thing and is now selling. I had a question on taking care of the system. Like I wanna know what would be the best case for the system? Then another question is 4GB a good size storage for the 3DS? Does the system have the game pre-installed with 4GB memory left, or 4GB minus the game. Thanks!

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#7088 VileEighty

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:54 AM

Hey gamers, I'm hoping to get some help. I'm purchasing the Fire Emblem 3DS Bundle via Craigslist, and everything is pretty new. Seller played once, wasn't his thing and is now selling. I had a question on taking care of the system. Like I wanna know what would be the best case for the system? Then another question is 4GB a good size storage for the 3DS? Does the system have the game pre-installed with 4GB memory left, or 4GB minus the game. Thanks!


As far as the pre-installed game, I'm pretty sure 4gb is the size of the SD card and Fire Emblem uses up part of that 4gb. So if FE was 1gb (It probably isn't), you'd have 3gb left.

The one thing I'd be worried about is linking my account to that 3DS/SD card and still having access to the game...

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#7089 Draekon

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:27 PM

Class is mostly useless. It's a rating of sequential writes only. That pretty much only matters when copying large files.


My understanding of the current class system is read and write. The card I linked for Class 10 is at 40MB/s on read and write. Though when talking about cameras, most people only refer to the write speed. I may be wrong on that particular thing, but everything I've found in the past when researching SD cards hasn't really pointed it to being write only requirement.

And yes, Random Read isn't really that great in a vast majority of cases as you're reading a single cluster and then jumping to another random cluster which tests the seek time more than anything.

Some Class 4s will be faster than Class 10s at random write speeds, which is what matters when saving. None of those indicate anything about reading, which is what affects loading.


Depends on how the card was formatted. 3DS recommends FAT16, however that only allows for partitions of up to 2GB. So anything beyond that uses FAT32. Most people use defaults, so a 4GB card would be formatted into 4k cluster sizes whereas a 32GB is in 32K cluster sizes. So the actual seek time should be fairly similar between the two and there won't be much difference in if what the system is reading is small, yes.

Most of what I'm referring to are downloaded games or applications that are usually bigger and so long as you aren't deleting and re-adding a bunch of stuff so the sequential speeds quite often kick in. Saves though will be about the same unless the developer wrote a terrible save system and there's nothing you can do about that regardless of the card.

#7090 elessar123

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:34 PM

My understanding of the current class system is read and write. The card I linked for Class 10 is at 40MB/s on read and write. Though when talking about cameras, most people only refer to the write speed. I may be wrong on that particular thing, but everything I've found in the past when researching SD cards hasn't really pointed it to being write only requirement.



Class had nothing to do with read speeds, and I'm pretty sure never has. Some manufactures make up stuff. Transcend, for example, have class 10s that write at only 10 MB/s, when the spec is supposed to be something like 25 MB/s on sequential writes. They do it obviously to sell more to unsuspecting costumers. No one actually tests them either, so they can put whatever they want.

Most of what I'm referring to are downloaded games or applications that are usually bigger and so long as you aren't deleting and re-adding a bunch of stuff so the sequential speeds quite often kick in. Saves though will be about the same unless the developer wrote a terrible save system and there's nothing you can do about that regardless of the card.


Saves can actually matter a great deal, where some Class 2s and Class 4s can write small blocks like a hundred times faster than most Class 10s. In something save heavy, like Etrian Odyssey...

If you're interested, look up SD benchmarks. It pretty clearly demonstrates how useless how the class system is mostly useless.

#7091 Draekon

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:32 AM

Class had nothing to do with read speeds, and I'm pretty sure never has. Some manufactures make up stuff. Transcend, for example, have class 10s that write at only 10 MB/s, when the spec is supposed to be something like 25 MB/s on sequential writes. They do it obviously to sell more to unsuspecting costumers. No one actually tests them either, so they can put whatever they want.


https://www.sdcard.o...s/part1_410.pdf

See section 3.4 for regards to what Class actually means. The 25MB/s number you're getting is the bus speed, which you can find in the same PDF at section 3.9.6. It's a little more complicated though.

And yes, there are companies out there that will abuse the standards, whether it's due to their inability to make anything better or they just want a cash grab at naive people. My original post still stated that people should always research further. Unfortunately however most people only look at the price and that it's a higher number listed on the box. This is an issue with everything and why we have so many thriving shitty companies producing shitty products and there's no way to change that without somehow mass educating the consumer.



Saves can actually matter a great deal, where some Class 2s and Class 4s can write small blocks like a hundred times faster than most Class 10s. In something save heavy, like Etrian Odyssey...


I'm curious where you're getting "hundred times faster" from. That would be an insane amount, which I'm certain isn't true. And your speed on saving will ultimately depend on the cluster size the card is formatted to and the size of the save data. While 4K Random Write/Read is a good number to get an idea on how slow it can possibly go, it's not a common real world number that you use unless your card is formatted in 4K cluster size.

And while I can't really see the inner workings of Etrian Odyssey, one thing I do know is it saves four times. It saves the game data, backs up the game data (To help stave off save corruption maybe?), then saves the map data and finally saves street pass data. If they cut it down to two operations to save, I'd be willing to bet that it would significantly increase the save speed alone regardless of the card you use. Of course I can't be certain as I don't have access to the source code.

I would test this as well if I bought it digitally, but unfortunately I didn't. So the only thing that gets saved to my SD card is the street pass data.


If you're interested, look up SD benchmarks. It pretty clearly demonstrates how useless how the class system is mostly useless.


Most of these benchmarks are from 2011 and don't really include Class 4, but instead Class 6 and higher. Newer versions of the same card have since come out with increased speeds. Often making user images on the purchase page outdated or the benchmarks outdated because they don't get a separate store page with the old one discontinued. (I'm more talking about Amazon here as it's the frequent go-to place for most online people)

For example, the card I linked had increased in speed since 2011 benchmarks as it was 30MB/s then and is 40-45MB/s now. This is mostly a sequential increase, but that's the main focus on SD cards as they are mostly used in cameras and video cameras where you want that. And yes, you won't see a big increase between card classes that only write/read 4K worth of data in random spots. This is why you format things into larger cluster sizes to take advantage of having to random read less and increase times because the same amount of data separated in 4K clusters will take longer than the same data separated out in 32K clusters (Less I/O overhead in larger clusters).



(And yes, I wish we had a different system. It's not totally broken though, unlike the contrast ratio you see on televisions and monitors because there is no standard at all)

#7092 elessar123

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:22 AM

https://www.sdcard.o...s/part1_410.pdf

See section 3.4 for regards to what Class actually means. The 25MB/s number you're getting is the bus speed, which you can find in the same PDF at section 3.9.6. It's a little more complicated though.


Um, what? From the PDF you referenced, Section 3.4: "Five Speed Classes are defined and indicate minimum performance of the cards."

"Speed Class and UHS Speed Class* symbols indicate minimum writing performance to ensure smooth writing of streaming content such as video shooting."

BTW, 3.9.6 means just about nothing in relation to SD Card classes.

I'm curious where you're getting "hundred times faster" from. That would be an insane amount, which I'm certain isn't true.


Don't feel like pulling it up, but it's shown in benchmarks. There are some SanDisk SD Cards that do random read/writes a hundred times faster than other brands' "Class 10" cards, whether it's in 4K or 32K clusters. Problem comes from things like latency. A vendor can focus on hardware to make it write at 50 MB/s, and absolutely kill the random read/write speeds.

Anyways, my point wasn't to start an argument, and I frankly don't want to continue. I do enough of this stuff at work, I don't want to come home to it.

Edited by elessar123, 25 April 2013 - 04:46 AM.


#7093 CAGkrazy

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:45 AM

Anyone using 32gb sandisk ultra for their 3ds? This is my 2nd card after replacing the faulty one i initially got. Im getting the "Sd card removed" error every now and then. Tried reformatting and all. Not sure if this is still a card problem or is it size specific. I used to use a 8gb one and seems like that was more stable. Any ideas?

#7094 moothemagiccow

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 05:20 AM

I had a similar problem with a big card and there was nothing I could do in the end. The game icons kept disappearing. Send it back and try another. Oddly enough, I had no trouble with a 32gb microsd and adapter
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#7095 nbballard

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:22 PM

i bought a bigger version of the card that came in my 3DS. It sometimes gives me weird errors about "extra data" related to Find Mii / Streetpass. My games haven't had problems though. I wrote it off as just a quark of the system
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#7096 Draekon

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:28 PM

Um, what? From the PDF you referenced, Section 3.4: "Five Speed Classes are defined and indicate minimum performance of the cards."

"Speed Class and UHS Speed Class* symbols indicate minimum writing performance to ensure smooth writing of streaming content such as video shooting."

BTW, 3.9.6 means just about nothing in relation to SD Card classes.


Yes because in my original post I stated:

Class 4 is "Minimum 4MB/s" whereas Class 10 is "Minimum 10MB/s"

I am backing up my original statement and if you didn't understand that, then there is a disconnect between what I said and what you're saying.

As for the 3.9.6, the only reason I linked that is to point out where you're getting your 25MB/s from in the post I was replying to.



Don't feel like pulling it up, but it's shown in benchmarks. There are some SanDisk SD Cards that do random read/writes a hundred times faster than other brands' "Class 10" cards, whether it's in 4K or 32K clusters. Problem comes from things like latency. A vendor can focus on hardware to make it write at 50 MB/s, and absolutely kill the random read/write speeds.

Anyways, my point wasn't to start an argument, and I frankly don't want to continue. I do enough of this stuff at work, I don't want to come home to it.


Unfortunately with a claim like that I won't believe it until I see it. I'm also fine with discontinuing the discussion. My point wasn't to argue but to back up what I said to show why I said it. I don't think we're too far off in agreement of what we're saying.

You're also not the only one in a similar field of work. ;)

#7097 SteveMcQ

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

Recently got a 32GB Sandisk to upgrade from the original that came with my 3DS XL. Doing the transfer though and every single computer I've tried to transfer with gives me an "unreadable or corrupted file" error right at the end of the copying process from the original SD card to the desktop. It's the file named 00000004.app.

I haven't downloaded any games from the eShop, just the updated version of Swapnote and the only digital game on there is Super Mario Land that came bundled with the system. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for your help.

#7098 foltzie

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 05:18 PM

Recently got a 32GB Sandisk to upgrade from the original that came with my 3DS XL. Doing the transfer though and every single computer I've tried to transfer with gives me an "unreadable or corrupted file" error right at the end of the copying process from the original SD card to the desktop. It's the file named 00000004.app.

I haven't downloaded any games from the eShop, just the updated version of Swapnote and the only digital game on there is Super Mario Land that came bundled with the system. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for your help.


Copy everything but that file. The system should recreate it when you insert the new card.

#7099 pitfallharry219

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:53 AM

The size of the download of DKC Returns 3D from the eShop is roughly 2.16GB. Holy shit.

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#7100 Josh5890

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:49 AM

The size of the download of DKC Returns 3D from the eShop is roughly 2.16GB. Holy shit.

http://www.nintendol...k_size_revealed


Well it is a full Wii game so I'm not surprised by it.

#7101 moothemagiccow

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:18 PM

there's a frigging lot of games on sale right now
http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=341286


3D Classics: Kirby's Adventure - $4.99 - End 5/9
Aero Porter - $2.99 - Ends 5/30
Art of Balance: Touch - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
ATV Wild Ride 3D - $5.99 - Ends 5/2
Crimson Shroud - $4.99 - Ends 5/30
Dillon's Rolling Western - $6.99 - Ends 5/9
Fluidity: Spin Cycle - $7.99 - Ends 5/9
Fun! Fun! Minigolf TOUCH! - $3.49 - Ends 5/9
Liberation Maiden - $4.99 - Ends 5/30
Nano Assault EX - $9.99 - Ends 5/9
Pushmo - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
Tokyo Crash Mobs - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
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#7102 DNukem170

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:33 PM

Isn't Crimson Shroud the 3D shooter with anime cut scenes? Or is that a different game?

#7103 foltzie

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:40 PM

Isn't Crimson Shroud the 3D shooter with anime cut scenes? Or is that a different game?


That is Liberation Maiden, also on sale. Crimson Shroud is the tabletop D&Dish game.

#7104 Tonks

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:24 PM

there's a frigging lot of games on sale right now
http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=341286


3D Classics: Kirby's Adventure - $4.99 - End 5/9
Aero Porter - $2.99 - Ends 5/30
Art of Balance: Touch - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
ATV Wild Ride 3D - $5.99 - Ends 5/2
Crimson Shroud - $4.99 - Ends 5/30
Dillon's Rolling Western - $6.99 - Ends 5/9
Fluidity: Spin Cycle - $7.99 - Ends 5/9
Fun! Fun! Minigolf TOUCH! - $3.49 - Ends 5/9
Liberation Maiden - $4.99 - Ends 5/30
Nano Assault EX - $9.99 - Ends 5/9
Pushmo - $4.99 - Ends 5/9
Tokyo Crash Mobs - $4.99 - Ends 5/9


Thanks, I didn't notice this. I thought I was dumb to wait for a Pushmo sale, but yay! :bouncy:

#7105 jza1218

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:31 AM

So since I can't reclaim the things I downloaded on my first 3DS (long since sold) is there any disadvantage to buying one used? Aside from the usual stuff I mean.

#7106 KingBroly

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:56 PM

So since I can't reclaim the things I downloaded on my first 3DS (long since sold) is there any disadvantage to buying one used? Aside from the usual stuff I mean.


Define 'usual stuff.'
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#7107 jza1218

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:58 PM

Define 'usual stuff.'


Just the usual dangers in buying any console used as opposed to new. Cleanliness, missing things, etc.

#7108 moothemagiccow

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 04:27 PM

Well the stylus is replaceable and you might not miss the AR cards.

I heard they fixed the top screen smudge problem on the newer models but I can't verify.
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#7109 johnnypark

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:14 PM

Got Mutant Mudds while it was on sale and have been going through it. It starts off feeling a little too generic and simplistic, but about half-way through it starts to bring the old-school hurt! Especially the secret areas, talk about unforgiving precision platforming.
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#7110 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:10 AM

According to the 3DS eShop, Animal Crossing is going to be $34.99 when it releases. I don't know if the retail version is going to be the same price.