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CAGcast #210: The Perfect Length


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#31 beard_of_zeus

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:09 PM

Checked out that Ars Technica article, good read. I totally agree with the author on this one. Especially with not having as much time to play games in the last couple years after graduating from college and having a full-time job, along with other adult responsibilities, I don't like when developers add unnecessary filler to their games just to make them longer. I much prefer a more focused, finely-created experience.

The value of a game (like many things in life) changes so differently from person to person, so it seems useless to argue about it in absolute terms. The amount and types of game content (i.e., different gameplay modes, approximate completion time, etc.) are, in fact, a part of the purchasing decision, but only insofar as these facts needing to be noted by a reviewer or whomever is covering the game. From there, people can judge for themselves whether they want to purchase/play a game.

Also, since Shipwreck mentioned it, just wanted to say I've been playing Ys Seven as well. I'm about 10 hours in, got near the end of the Wind Altar dungeon, couldn't figure out the puzzle though, sadly. Probably going to try to figure it out tonight, fun game! It doesn't go anything revolutionary as an action RPG, but it's definitiely solid.
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#32 AlexLeSage

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:43 PM

Say shmup. WHO CARES!
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#33 thedangerphill

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:53 PM

Cheapy, you should try infinite space on the ds. its all ship and crew customization and big battlestar style ship to ship space action.

#34 rancest

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 10:04 PM

Finally something worth listening to. I do not have much to look forward to here in Afghanistan. Thanks and keep up the good work.

#35 bickle

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 10:29 PM

Shipwreck, you mentioned that Mafia II isn't a shooter. The demo definitely felt very shooter-heavy. Do you feel that the demo isn't an accurate representation of the game? Just wondering since I really liked the demo, and I want to get in on the Kmart $20 coupon if I decide to pick up the game...

#36 combatFlexo

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 10:35 PM

Cheapy you might also like the Spore kinda a space shooter where you can sell different items on different planets and what not...also fun to create your own creatures, but for some reason all my creatures I created seem to have large penises.

I'm very excited for Mass Effect 2 on the PS3! From hearing the CAGcast and the slight problems with the Xbox version that they'll be fixed for the PS3. Also hopefully it will include the DLC for it.

#37 my2k2zx2

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 11:40 PM

whould the people with a problem with the Shmup name also have a problem with calling it a Shoot 'em Up?

If abbreviation is the issue, then it would be a Shoot Them Up, right?
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#38 Thomas96

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 12:12 AM

Good show! I enjoyed this show so much... I ended up going late to work. I had to listen to most of the show before I could leave!

In reference to Mass Effect 3 -
I like Cheapy's idea of adding in some of the Space Combat. Adding in space combat in Mass Effect brought me back to another game - Wing Commander (PSX) where you'd fly a mission and then you'd come back to the main ship and interact with the characters in conversation and your choices during the conversation dictated where the game's story. Mass Effect is just a mixture of genres, so far you have RPG, and 3rd Person shooting, I think that adding in the space combat genre into the game could breathe a lot of new life into the game. It'd be nice if you have a special squadron that works together and does missions togeher. I'd love to see a mission where you're defending the main ship and then at the end of the mission the main ship gets shot down and then you have to harvest minerals form the new planet where you crash landed in order to repair the main ship. I think that your idea is great Cheapy, you're not alone in your thinking. If there is a market for Ace combat then there's still a market for some good space combat, we haven't really had any since Star Wars Jedi StarFighter.



If the 3DS is priced at 199 will people still buy it? I thought that the low price of the DS is what made it sell. At 199, the 3DS will be like another PSP. [Hopefully Sony will release a PSP with dual sticks, and at a price tag that's lower than the 3DS; 150 could be a great price for a new PSP... if they do that, they'll outsell the 3DS... maybe.

How come you guys didn't mention the Ars Technica article where the author indicated that he felt like the PS Move was a better deal than Xbox Kinect due to the cheaper price and the inclusion of a game. [I'm surprised you didn't mention it, since you guys seem to love articles from Ars Technica] http://arstechnica.c...p?f=2&t=1119692

I agree with Shipwreck that Length does matter, but I think that people are sometimes to quick to be dismissive of a game if it's short. But me personally, I rather have a nice complete game and not one that tries to create length by having you back track into an area, just to increase the game's length. Ship you reviewed DeathSmiles 49.99 (with some very nice extras) but gave it a very good even though you ran through the game (first run through) in 45 minutes. I'm sorry but for 45 minutes worth of game I don't think that's even worth 10 dollars. (which makes the extras: CD Soundtrack, and Faceplate cost about 40 dollars, imo).
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#39 firehawk12

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 01:42 AM

Yeah exactly what I was going to say.

Spoiler
Also I hope Bioware is doing more than just that "Previously on Mass Effect" video that is on the XBL Marketplace right now for PS3-only users sake.

Although I have a sneaky feeling that
Spoiler
will always be dead in Mass Effect 2 games on either platform that start from scratch.


Ah yea, my memory is a lil hazy whether it was about

Spoiler
specifically. But importing a ME1 Paragon save file definitely had its perks for ME2.


Yeah, I was all set to post a response but you guys covered it. Thanks! :)
Of course, Shipwreck also wasn't able to see arguably the best character in the Mass Effect franchise -
Spoiler
- because of what the game assumes is true. The fact that the game also assumes that you are Renegade if you start a new character can also be frustrating if you want to play a Paragon.

There are also many small changes, including
Spoiler
that you will just miss if you jump into ME2 without importing. I agree that most of it is pointless email BS, but there's some "flavor" that you miss out on.

Also, I thank Cheapy for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Mass Effect 3 could be a 3DS game for all I care - that's not what matters to me. I just think that if you are a "fan" of the Mass Effect franchise, you'd want the optimum experience. Given how tame the connectivity from ME1 to ME2 was at launch, I can't imagine that they'd spend money creating a whole new character creation process just for PS3 users.

And yes, you also get a substantial Paragon/Renegade bonus for importing a level 60 character. Although, if you min/max your conversations, it's entirely possible (if not difficult) to max out one of the bars on a standard, non-import playthrough.

Finally, I'm going to assume Wombat was just shitting me... but someone remind me to make a smart ass comment the next time he talks about some trivial matter concerning some comic book super hero that only he cares about. ;)

In reference to Mass Effect 3 -
I like Cheapy's idea of adding in some of the Space Combat. Adding in space combat in Mass Effect brought me back to another game - Wing Commander (PSX) where you'd fly a mission and then you'd come back to the main ship and interact with the characters in conversation and your choices during the conversation dictated where the game's story. Mass Effect is just a mixture of genres, so far you have RPG, and 3rd Person shooting, I think that adding in the space combat genre into the game could breathe a lot of new life into the game. It'd be nice if you have a special squadron that works together and does missions togeher. I'd love to see a mission where you're defending the main ship and then at the end of the mission the main ship gets shot down and then you have to harvest minerals form the new planet where you crash landed in order to repair the main ship. I think that your idea is great Cheapy, you're not alone in your thinking. If there is a market for Ace combat then there's still a market for some good space combat, we haven't really had any since Star Wars Jedi StarFighter.


I hope it's not too spoilery, but Fallout 3 (via Mothership Zeta) had space bound ship to ship combat where you played captain of a ship and had to order people to fire weapons and transfer shield power and all that. I wouldn't mind that kind of combat being introduced into ME3... but a full blown space sim might be too much.

I know CheapyD can't do PC gaming anymore, but Darkstar One for the PC is like 5 dollars now so that would be a really easy and cheap way to try out the game.

#40 RichMeisterMan

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:11 AM

I would think that in ME2 on PS3 they might expand the interview with Miranda and Jacob that goes on when you're on your way to first meet the Illusive Man.

Speaking of Illusive Man, is anyone annoyed by the way Shepard says it in the game? Like I know the guy is called Illusive Man, but I hate how he says it like Illusive is a proper noun instead of an adjective which I guess in this case is right, but I just think he sounds dumb and he's the only one that says it that way! Nitpicking...I know.

Also, the Scott Pilgrim game is awesome. Totally worth the 10 bucks.

#41 firehawk12

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:42 AM

I would think that in ME2 on PS3 they might expand the interview with Miranda and Jacob that goes on when you're on your way to first meet the Illusive Man.

Speaking of Illusive Man, is anyone annoyed by the way Shepard says it in the game? Like I know the guy is called Illusive Man, but I hate how he says it like Illusive is a proper noun instead of an adjective which I guess in this case is right, but I just think he sounds dumb and he's the only one that says it that way! Nitpicking...I know.

Also, the Scott Pilgrim game is awesome. Totally worth the 10 bucks.


That would lead me to ask the obvious question - why didn't they do that for the PC/360 version of the game? For whatever reason, the writers wanted the Renegade Shepard options from ME1 to be the canon. I'm not sure why though, other than the fact that most games assume you choose the "good ending" so I guess they wanted to try something different.

You know, I always just assumed that the Illusive Man just refers to that as his name, which is why everyone uses Illusive as a proper noun.

#42 bickle

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:18 AM

The fact that the game also assumes that you are Renegade if you start a new character can also be frustrating if you want to play a Paragon.


It assumes that your character made some renegade decisions, which is quite different from saying that it assumes your character *is* a Renegade. And it doesn't hamper the ability to play as Paragon one iota.

#43 Thomas96

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:30 AM

I hope it's not too spoilery, but Fallout 3 (via Mothership Zeta) had space bound ship to ship combat where you played captain of a ship and had to order people to fire weapons and transfer shield power and all that. I wouldn't mind that kind of combat being introduced into ME3... but a full blown space sim might be too much.


You may be right, about having a full blown space sim integrated into the game. But I think that if you do too little of it, then people will feel like its "tacked on."
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#44 Shibby2142

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:54 AM

I liked how Wombat used my comment from last week about the more monorail train and less Wombat. Hah! :applause:

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#45 MattJ1991

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:19 AM

i gotta say that I'm on your side with the space combat in Mass Effect 3 Cheapy, Wombat and Shipwreck were to quick to say no and I think you had some valid ideas.

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#46 SINNED

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:21 AM

whould the people with a problem with the Shmup name also have a problem with calling it a Shoot 'em Up?

If abbreviation is the issue, then it would be a Shoot Them Up, right?


'em is an abbreviation/slang. Shmup is an acronym. Like I said, its like pronouncing the acronyms omg or wtf. You heard how bad it sounded when Wombat tried to pronounce them it. All my life ive never heard anyone pronounce "shmup", its just a short way to typing it, not pronouncing it.

#47 firehawk12

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 06:37 AM

You may be right, about having a full blown space sim integrated into the game. But I think that if you do too little of it, then people will feel like its "tacked on."


Yeah, that's true. But if the Hammerhead is any indication of how they would do vehicle stuff, maybe it's for the best that they just try to ignore that stuff as much as possible. I do agree that they need something to break up the monotony of the shooting though. I've finished the game three times to prep characters for ME3 and there's no question that the game is very, very boring once you figure out how to exploit the combat. They really need more things to do than just shooting people.

It assumes that your character made some renegade decisions, which is quite different from saying that it assumes your character *is* a Renegade. And it doesn't hamper the ability to play as Paragon one iota.


Well, I choose to believe that some of the decisions you make in ME1 will play out in ME3. I could be deluded and BioWare may have no plans whatsoever, but after they dropped the ball in ME2, I have to imagine that they'll try to make up for it.

It's also probably just me, but I can't play schizophrenic characters because it's fairly inconsistent. After being a space asshole in ME1, your Shepard suddenly decides to be good in ME2? That just doesn't make sense to me.

If you don't care about the fate of characters or how the story plays out, that's fine. But then you're not "role playing", you're just playing an average third person shooter with cover mechanics.

#48 MSUHitman

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:02 AM

Who won the Ys code from ep. 209?

Cheapy I'm torn on space combat in Mass Effect, but if done right, it would be awesome. Depending on how Bungie does with the space combat in Reach, I hope that:

1. They put it as a multiplayer mode. I wouldn't even mind paying for it.
2. EA has Bungie relaunch the Wing Commander IP.

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#49 nateeasy29

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:06 AM

I appreciate you guys don't fell the need to dedicate 20 minutes of every show to Starcraft2. Seems like every other podcast has.

#50 DietCokeJunkey

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:40 AM

If there is to be any kind of space combat in Mass Effect 2, I'd prefer if it were to be done via cutscene or quick time event. Have it initiate as a conversation with an enemy ship and either resolve it peacefully or have it turn into a full scale battle where you have options on what action to take. But I completely dislike the idea of it being something similar to Star Fox gameplay.

I'd rather have them focus on improving things they already have instead of trying to implement something into the game that may not work well (I don't want another Mako experience).

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Yeah jay remedy was really the heart and soul of this thread.

story isn't outstanding.. but the fact you can rub a girl and make them naked? and hear them moaning ?

 

total worth my money

 


#51 killthemall4444

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:12 AM

I just feel the need to point out Cheapy wasn't being completely fair when he claimed that the dlc add on, Demons of the the Badlands, for RFG was only an hour and a half long. Sure if you just play the main missions that's about all it would take but there's more to it then that. It's a whole new sector filled with all sorts of thing to do such as a significant amount of of new Guerilla Actions. The new demolition stuff in particular is quite good. I mean in the end it's more of the same but there's a good four or five hours worth of content in there at least. I certainly felt I got my ten bucks worth.

#52 drew327

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:14 AM

Don't worry Mr. D, all of that stuff will be in Mass Effect Online

#53 drew327

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:21 AM

Might I recommend www.gamerankings.com over Metacritic- its much cleaner/faster

#54 banodyne

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 12:04 PM

I don't like to hear any developer laying off employees but I'm not going to shed too many tears for Krome Studios. Seeing their name in the credits is like seeing the Wayans Bros on the marquee of a movie. You know it's going to be crap but somehow they keep getting work. Hellboy The Science of Evil is the buggiest game I ever played on my 360. It crashed every 15 minutes. I have no idea how that game passed cert. Star Wars Lighsaber Duels took a concept people had been begging for on the Wii and buggered it. Their Transformers Revenge of the Fallen game at least lived up to the quality level of the movie it was based on. (Yeah, that's saarcasm.) And finally Game Room with the f***ed up downloading game packs system you mention. Who but Krome would port 20 year old arcade and 2600 games to a modern Xbox 360 game system where the games would take half-second pauses like it somehow strained the system.

#55 bickle

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 12:10 PM

Shmup is an acronym.


An acronym is a word formed from the initial letters of a name. Shmup is not an acronym. Shmup is just all three words smashed together so they can be said in one syllable.

#56 Wombat

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 01:25 PM

'em is an abbreviation/slang. Shmup is an acronym. Like I said, its like pronouncing the acronyms omg or wtf. You heard how bad it sounded when Wombat tried to pronounce them it. All my life ive never heard anyone pronounce "shmup", its just a short way to typing it, not pronouncing it.




#57 HellsAttack

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:16 PM

i gotta say that I'm on your side with the space combat in Mass Effect 3 Cheapy, Wombat and Shipwreck were to quick to say no and I think you had some valid ideas.


I've heard Shipwreck praise much worse games than space flight sims, I don't know where he was coming from brushing off the entire genre. Tie Fighter is one of the best PC games of all time and we haven't had any games like it in awhile. There have been a few with lower budgets, but I'm really craving a AAA space flight sim.

#58 youruglyclone

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:32 PM

thanks wombat now I'll know not to buy xbla arcade games from gamestop...cause I can't keep a receipt for the life of me.

#59 go Eagle go

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:53 PM

Great show again, would like to just give a small shout to my gf Penny who is also a real trooper when it comes to my wittering about games, podcasts, superhero fantasies, post apocalyptic stratergies and all manner of other things she has no real interest in.

#60 LiK

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:15 PM

I appreciate you guys don't fell the need to dedicate 20 minutes of every show to Starcraft2. Seems like every other podcast has.


since only Cheapy played it, not much for them to discuss. curse you Wombat and Shippy! *shakes fist*
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