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CAGcast #212: What's a Game Journalist To Do?


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#31 hectorlaparka

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:30 PM

BTW, Happy Birthday, Cheapy. Have fun today.

#32 john8686

john8686

Posted 09 September 2010 - 08:18 PM

I have listened to a couple of these cagcast episodes and feel the need to comment. First off, are you guys married to the hour and a half time slot? I always have the same reaction every time I listen; they are so long. I would be an avid listener if they were shorter, or if there was a way that they could be segmented so that I could skip over certain parts that are uninteresting (like the $10 arcade games or the obscure juvenile games that nobody plays). Maybe you can shorten them but cutting out the fluff, like when you guys are talking about how you cant do the show next week, or that you need to go to the Cheesecake factory for example.....

In response to the "Used games" dilemma:
Anyhow, as an adult gamer, it's not so much the $60 price tag for new games. A lot of times it's a combination of that and when they come out. Look at the next couple weeks for example. Starting next Tuesday we have Halo Reach, deadrising 2, medal of Honor, FO New Vegas, Fable 3 and Spec Ops, pretty much every week! These are all big-budget highly anticipated games but i don't have $360 to spend on these games. So I have to pick and choose. Last time this happened I choose Red Dead Redemption instead of Alan Wake Hoping to pick up AW a couple months later used. I try to play one game at a time.

My 2c.

#33 usickenme

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 09:58 PM

Cheapy and Wombat,
I always enjoying hearing about your ed-Jew-cation.

I was interested to learn (on the Bombast) that Gearbox Founder Randy Pitchford worked quite a bit on the old Duke Nukem games and that part of the reason he was interested in the series. But I think it's a smart move, people will buy it.

#34 RichMeisterMan

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 10:39 PM

Woah woah...Dead Rising 2

In Dead Rising it's not just about the main story, and you can't confine yourself to the story; hell in the 1st game you weren't going to be able to finish the story on your first play through. It's all about trying to level frank up and taking advantage of other things the game offers. On the first few play throughs I got to know the mall and went through rescuing people, and killing psychos and in general just leveled my character up to the max level. Then after maxing out and completing achievements that earned you in game rewards that made the game easier.

When I say "easier" I don't mean cake walk. like you got the mega buster and it was really effective against bosses, not so much the horde though and it was conducive to a speed play though where you just wanted to play through the main story rescuing as many survivors as possible and killing all the psychos.

Dead Rising was a total blast! One of the best games on Xbox360 and the achievements were actually worth getting, hopefully the 2nd time around they do just as good a job implementing them.

#35 blacksanta87

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 10:52 PM

@john8686

I normally don't reply to idiots, but dude go kill yourself. If you don't like the "fluff" then don't listen to the show. The fluff is the best part. So GTFO and don't die from cancer you moron.

Edited by blacksanta87, 10 September 2010 - 07:25 AM.
I was too harsh on the noob sorry

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#36 combatFlexo

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 12:40 AM

I really enjoyed your transition from PS3 to XBOX this week I thought you were talking about PS3 until Wombat mention Crackdown.

I would be interested in hearing what GT5 preorders are like at this time? Also I have yet to preorder the Move bundle because one I have a Wii, and I haven't seen any games that are appealing. K-mart seems to have a good deal though with there $25 credit, so its kinda tempting since I've been waiting to pick up the PS3 camera. As far as the Amazon preorders go, maybe only 30 some preorder the motion controller is because they probably already own the camera, and don't care about the sports game. My cagcast theory for the week.

#37 trip1eX

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 01:12 AM

Pachter is right.

Sites need to do something different to stand out. EVerybody posts the same news with the same snarky tone that just gets (all) the more annoying the longer you visit those sites. My message to these guys is that you just aren't that funny every PR News release you regurgitate. It also gets too formulaic.

What I would do is make a site that devotes coverage only to products that are out or coming out in a week or two. Man do I hate to read about products a year out or 2 years out or 6 months out, etc....

What's the point? Everything looks (great) that far out. Yes that means no previews. I'd do more stories about games that are being played rather than games yet to be played.

I would also eliminate all trailers and screenshots that don't show gameplay. I might as well look at porn instead. It has as much to do with the game as those bullshots and cutscenes.

I would review games less as a feature checklist and more as an experience. I might not even do reviews unless I can find more of an angle with them as not sure what I can add except to not turn game reviews into feature checklists.

I would give updated reviews of multiplayer games that get patched as time goes by. I would update on the glitches going on and in general tactics that are going on and whether the game is "broken" or not. I would update on the size of the communities playing the various games. Multiplayer tips from real world players would be good too.

I would interview folks that work on games more as was mentioned in the podcast. I'd interview gamers and what they play. Might be one game they play or might be they play every game. I'd report on their gaming lifestyle. GAming setups. etc. REal world stuff. Not PR crap.

I could go on. But I'm already at the point where I have to kill anybody that reads this. YOu know too much.

Of course I'm not a 15 yr old and that's where Cheapie's counter-argument has some merit. 15 yr olds like to read about games coming out next year and the year after. They have the attention span of Wombat in a room filled with lobsters. They are highly gullible as well. Have little experience how PR works. And don't care because this is fun to read previews even if they are all lies. IT's all new to them. So the audience of many of these sites might not give a crap about how I think a site should be run.

Edited by trip1eX, 10 September 2010 - 10:16 PM.


#38 gorgo

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 02:01 AM

Happy bday Cheapy!

I'm also still greatful for the addition of Shipwreck, he adds a lot to the show.

I also enjoy Wombat's financial analysis take on whatever the topic of the cast is... Duke this time. And thanks, Wombat, for the recommend of the WTF podcast last week, I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

#39 sublime90

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 02:40 AM

i also bought Jimmy's Vendetta for Mafia 2 and on the official mafia 2 forums almost everyone is going crazy. it is stuff they had ready but cut from the game not just that but a ton of other things like 8 levels. alot of people have dug through the pc files and found a ton of cut stuff, even some stuff was cut from JV

Here is the starting message pre-installation of JV:
http://img525.images...i/28551852.jpg/

After installation of JV:
http://img839.images...i/97865505.jpg/

it went from four men to two men. seems like a lot of shady stuff is happening with mafia 2 and there planned dlc, just look at the official forums, its a zoo there.

i enjoyed mafia 2 story but JV is hard to get into like cheapy said its just steal cars and kill people for 30 missions.
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#40 Akuhei

Akuhei

Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:15 AM

Happy B-Day.

I think Pachter was right. Game sites all have the same content. Personalities of the journalists are the only
difference between them.

40 minutes!?! Yikes. Were you on dial-up? It took me a total of 8 minutes for the whole process.

#41 maxim2boobles

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:19 AM

@john8686

I normally don't reply to idiots, but dude go kill yourself. If you don't like the "fluff" then don't listen to the show. The fluff is the best part. So GTFO and die from cancer you moron.



@blacksanta87 that is fucked up. what comes around , goes around
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#42 Xeigrich

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:29 AM

AH! I got mentioned in the show! Weeee!

I was really surprised to hear Fluxx mentioned. I've been playing Fluxx for about 2 years; it's sort of become the default "party game" for all my friends any time there's a gathering and Munchkin isn't an option. The people who make Fluxx also make several other games, Aquarius, Chrononauts, Are You the Traitor?, and even a unique set of colored, nesting pyramid game pieces called "Icehouse" that is used to play dozens of different game types. These guys win awards for creating games all the time and I would urge anyone remotely interested in card games and board games to check them out at their main website: http://www.looneylabs.com/

On the topic of Deadspace 2's multiplayer and the monsters vs humans concept, Left 4 Dead has that gameplay nailed in their multiplayer. A human vs human competitive multiplayer goes against the survival horror ideology UNLESS they can shoehorn some sort of sense into it; for example maybe you're fighting over supplies, or a seat on the escape pod, but in general you would want to conserve all that ammo and energy for fighting off the real enemy.

As for Duke Nukem, I'm really, really excited. Gearbox is based right here in Dallas, Tx, or to be more specific, Plano, Tx... mere miles from my apartment. I don't think their purchase of Duke Nukem was necessarily a goof move, there is a big chance they will lose out on it, but I'm confident that Gearbox will at least finish and release a quality game (with piles of obligatory DLC). Duke Nukem couldn't be in better hands (or could he? *wink wink*). 3D Realms is based in Garland, Tx, practically in the same neighborhood, and similarly focused id Software is in Mesquite, Tx, still in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex. Gearbox being a fresh, healthy and thriving game developer, they were very likely approached with an offer by 3D Realms, but either way they are definitely a good choice to carry on the Duke Nukem franchise. And speaking of Gearbox and Borderlands DLC, the 4th DLC pack "Claptrap's New Robot Revolution" comes out September 28th and I know I'm buying it the moment it hits Xbox Live!!

The Crackdown 2 "Toy Box" stuff sounds great, but in essence isn't it just the good old fashioned cheat codes turned into a DLC pack? I always had the most fun in GTA (GTA III on PC in particular) just using cheat codes to do whatever I wanted to do. Spawn a tank, make the cars fly, make the cars all blow up instantly, give everybody double ended dildoes instead of weapons (I think that was San Andreas), crazy stuff like that which has been taken out of this past generation's games.GTA IV had a few cheat codes... but nothing crazy. And most games that have cheats scare people away because they disable Achievements or Trophies.

Anyway, really great show this week! I hope you guys scrape something together over the next couple of weeks, and happy birthday Cheapy!

#43 blacksanta87

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 07:10 AM

@blacksanta87 that is fucked up. what comes around , goes around


Yea I know, I was really pissed off when I wrote that comment. Sorry.
Pigtails are for face Fucking.

#44 MSUHitman

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 08:40 AM

I've yet to get stuck (I'm playing on Easy), there's just a lot going on in this game and it's a genre I don't typically play. Thanks for the tips and such though.


Like I told you on Twitter Shipwreck, I think the PS3 version is superior so if you like this enough I would suggest getting the PS3 original. MUCH better story/characters and probably doesn't ramp up the difficulty as quickly and suddenly as VC 2.

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#45 Swoxx

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 10:17 AM

I agree completely with you guys about the Dead Rising stuff, that's why i never finished the first one and it's why i probably wont even finish case Zero.

WHY is the timer so fucking tight? i had to play through it twice because you don't have time to waste to find stuff, you have to figure it out, restart and then rush like a crazy person. sigh...

#46 token2k6

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 12:58 PM

It wasn't the timer or stuff that I didn't like about Dead Rising, it was pretty irritating and was one reason for never completing the game; for me it was the constant having to take pictures and safely escort the people back to safety. It just really wasn't 'open-world' which I think a lot of us believed when it launched. We were just like, "Wow, the first game for the 360 that looks like a sandbox game and OMG there are zombiiez!" Once we saw the gimmick of killing the zombies and some of the different things we could do, we put it aside..L4D made a ton of money b/c they were able to capitalize on the rampant mowing down of 'better' zombies in a fashionable manner. That would be the go-to reference game on how to do a zombie game right this generation. It also showed that you can't milk-the-cow, a-la L4D2 ;)
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#47 Iron Past

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 01:05 PM

Hey guys, since I heard Pachter's panel I thought I'd give a couple thoughts. While I don't agree with everything he had to say, I think he's right about the need for actual journalism. Reviews, previews, press events and all that stuff is not journalism, though yes, it is needed. What he said was that most sites--and especially print mags--are basically advertising for upcoming games, and I have to agree. While I don't necessarily consider that evil or anything, I'd love to see it supplemented by more legitimate stuff.

Given, GameInformer is moving this direction, but that's more of a survival technique; if they just regurgitate everything everyone else does they'll be eaten alive since the online groups will have it out there much faster, and even then there's too much fluff in the mag driven by exclusives secured by throwing their weight around. Most sites just seem to have no personality. Giant Bomb is about the only site where I recognize most of the names, but that's because I enjoy their style and respect how they write stories (which is why I'm now a member, but that's a different topic). It's just sad that every site seems to have the same stories with the same quotes and the only things different are shock stories designed to drive clicks.

Also: Randy Pitchford not only worked on Duke Nukem 3D, but Duke Nukem Forever for a brief time as well before the days of Gearbox. Triptych Games is still involved in the project, too, so it might not be so out-of-the-blue as you think.

Edited by Iron Past, 10 September 2010 - 01:18 PM.


#48 rogueweapon

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 01:28 PM

Happy Bday C-man.
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#49 AriesDog

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 01:50 PM

I think Pachter was right. Game sites all have the same content. Personalities of the journalists are the only
difference between them.

That's the problem. Most of them don't have personalities. Most do the snarky thing just because that's what Kotaku does. Some of them copy it well (the Games Radar kids), some horribly (Jim Silver from Destructoid). The CAGcast has real personalities. So do the Giant Bomb guys. Major Nelson too. After that, you're looking at vast sea of sites and podcasts that if they went away, no one would notice.

#50 FunkyDoRight

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 01:55 PM

Great show guys. Nothing makes a morning of prepping drawings to send to China, so they take our business, go any smoother. Only thing I disagreed with is the statement I believe Cheapy made about people who are big into gaming wanting the newest games. I have many gaming friends and we really play games we can get for cheap and that is about it. Then we pass the games between ourselves. Just my take on the matter. Keep up the great show.


#51 kashwashwa

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 02:12 PM

Hey guys, since I heard Pachter's panel I thought I'd give a couple thoughts. While I don't agree with everything he had to say, I think he's right about the need for actual journalism. Reviews, previews, press events and all that stuff is not journalism, though yes, it is needed.



Precisely - that is not journalism a lot of people are interested in. I'm interested in hearing about stuff behind this scenes. For example, I'd read a 'tell-all' book about Duke Nukem Forever's development in a heartbeat.


But besides that fact - how are journalists beholden to game publishers?

That is bullshit - and precisely why Giant Bomb is the only gaming site I give any credibility to (Eurogamer at times as well).
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#52 spoo

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 03:47 PM

Another good show.
I want to comment about a pet peeve of mine CheapyD; The year is 'twenty ten' not 'two thousand ten" based on how we have been pronouncing the years past e.g. the year 1910 is pronounced 'nineteen ten' not 'one thousand nine hundred ten.'
/end silly anal retentive rant.
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#53 diablo343

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:02 PM

I'm really surprised to see Shipwreck is the more controversial person on Twitter. I think Wombat is more controversial on the podcast and Shipwreck is laidback and calm. Just my opinion.

#54 Fjordson

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:14 PM

You guys missed Pachter's best comment. He called the Take-Two CEO a "fucking asshole" for calling him out about Mafia II. I'm not sure what he said previously, but I assume it was a prediction saying it wouldn't be profitable.

Also, he asked the crowd "so who all bought Mafia II?" and everyone was dead silent. It was hilarious. Jeff Green and Gary Whitta were great also.

#55 LiK

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:27 PM

Drunk Pachter would be good for the CAGcast.

Once again, Happy Bday Cheapy.

O yea, "Who gives a fux?" XD

Edited by LiK, 10 September 2010 - 05:52 PM.

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#56 VidPower

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:52 PM

Bappy Hirthday Cheapy
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#57 nomp

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 05:25 PM

I always love when people talk about food they miss it is always the most unhealthy stuff. No one ever says, "Damn, I missed good grilled broccoli" It is always cheesesteaks, pizzas, deserts, mashed potatoes, and all the other high calorie comfort foods.

#58 beard_of_zeus

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 06:33 PM

I have to echo the sentiments of a few of the comments in here that I think Pachter is definitely onto something. Everyone covering games is trapped in such a deathgrip by publishers and evil PR machinations, pining for the next insignificant tidbit about a game, that's it's all the same coverage from all the sites. The only thing distinguishing game sites at this point seem to be the personalities of the journalists themselves since no one seems to be willing to do any sort of coverage of the sort that Pachter is talking about, or anything else to put them ahead of their competition.

I think this is why I enjoy Giantbomb so much; all the guys that work there seem awesome, and they seem to be trying to push more unique content. Also, they are willing to refuse putting up "news" about stuff like "Oh look, the new Halo game has RED armor!" or "This FPS game has a laser gun, oh man!" rather than posting every stupid piece of info that publishers drip out to feed the starving masses.

Personally, I would definitely be interested to read about the goings-on of the game industry, or to learn about developers, particularly smaller indie studios (especially since they would most likely to be willing to give a look into what they do). I'm not sure why Cheapy thinks people wouldn't care about such things. As for a more recent example, wouldn't you love to know the whole backstory of how Gearbox ended up being tasked with finishing the development of Duke Nukem Forever?
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#59 spoo

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 06:43 PM

Personally, I would definitely be interested to read about the goings-on of the game industry, or to learn about developers, particularly smaller indie studios (especially since they would most likely to be willing to give a look into what they do). I'm not sure why Cheapy thinks people wouldn't care about such things. As for a more recent example, wouldn't you love to know the whole backstory of how Gearbox ended up being tasked with finishing the development of Duke Nukem Forever?


That is why I miss EGM (mostly EGM articles in the early to mid '90's.) because they would cover things like that instead of two paragraph blurbs about x press releases that we get today.
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#60 TheTrueSephiroth

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 08:08 PM

Hey guys, another great episode. Though i think your new slogan should be "CAGcast: We table embargo discussions indefinitely." Are you ever going to have this epic discussion, who's legend you've been building up week after week by "tabling" it? I'm expecting the 2nd coming of Christ when this is actually discussed. Thank you.