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CAGcast #225: PS3 Blood Libel


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#331 bgame2

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 04:54 PM

That wasn't my point at all, why would try to "score" something that is already free? I just thought the timing was bad. I don't need to complain for free things anymore, also I have a direct contact at Bioware if I really wanted ask for it.



A fair point but sometimes people prefer to provoke someone to offer something rather than ask for it. lol.

As I said though, your points during the spreadsheet discussion were spot-on and well thought out. While this may not sound like a compliment it is certainly meant to be. It is probably the only time I can remember where the three of you had an in depth conversation of that length which stayed on-topic and had active participation by everyone. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

(Edited for Grammar - typed too fast)

Edited by bgame2, 20 January 2011 - 05:19 PM.


#332 shipwreck

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 05:16 PM

this feels like shipwreck may be a little jealous of all the ps3 exclusives this year ( and only 1 on xbox)


I'd love to see the flowchart of thoughts that brought you to this conclusion.
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#333 GOTA

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 05:25 PM

my take on why Epic Mickey sold so well is parents needed something to get their kids for their Wii for Xmas. they figured what kid doesn't like Mickey Mouse. so they picked that game up for them. i am not saying Epic Mickey is a bad game what so ever, just saying with that many Wiis out there. it was a diven that it would sell well over the holidays.


That's exactly what happened in my family. Grandma wanted to get a game for my 7 year old son and Epic Mickey seemed like the perfect gift to her. He's played it twice since the holidays and told me that the camera is annoying. Instead he plays Smackdown vs. Raw and Angry Birds on the PS3.

#334 msdmoney

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 08:14 PM

Sony should be selling a dream of unmatched cinematic realism to the masses. The sooner they replace the "it only does everything" tagline the better off they'll be.


Sony and Microsoft have been trying to do that for years. It doesn't work, the dream of unmatched cinematic realism only sells to the hardcore gamers that have already purchased their consoles. To the masses Kinect, Move and the Wii are what sell, the Wii already showed that this generation.

#335 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 09:40 PM

I think (s)he meant that you have to have PS+ to allow your system to download games when it's off--otherwise you end up waiting for a patch to download right when you're wanting to play a game.

Which it can't do anyway, as the closest is the system being able to finish downloading and installing games before turning itself off.

I hate stuff like this. Simply because my opinion is opposite of yours I am raging? Where did I rage? I called no names, I gave credit to both consoles where I felt it was due, and simply voiced my opinion. So please, spare me the second rate internet stereotypes like "nerd rage" and "butt hurt."

I never said anything about nerd rage or being butt hurt, but TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS SIGNIFYING THAT YOU ARE SHOUTING SOMETHING LOUDLY SO THAT EVERYBODY SEES YOUR OUTRAGE. Also, I didn't give any kind of opinion at all, just corrected a fact that you were misinformed about.

I First, I never said that ANYWHERE in my post. I said that you had to pay to download games while the system was off. IE: Not leave the PS3 running for hours while you download ten game demos. I, obviously, was wrong about this aspect of the service.

However, that only makes it worse. Now I'm not paying extra money to save electricity and the console by being able to turn it off without interrupting long downloads. I'm paying extra money so I don't have to actively turn it on while it downloads updates (which I don't know, but if I had downloads qued, would they continue during the update?) for a select few games that I play REGULARLY (according to blitz6speed), which means there's a good chance they were already updated while I was enroute to playing them anyway.

Let me refresh you on where you said that Sony charges you to download content you paid for while the PS3 is off:

SONY CHARGES YOU TO DOWNLOAD CONTENT YOU PAID FOR WHILE THE PS3 IS OFF

Which is not anywhere close to the truth because the PS3 can't even do this at all, so Sony cannot be charging for a feature it doesn't even have. I don't get how it's worse that they're not charging for that feature.

You're free to set the system to turn off after your downloads finish and install, which is the closest thing to the phantom feature. If you just turn the system off, you can continue the downloads the next time that you turn it on. So if you're concerned about wasting electricity, then just turn it off and continue the downloads when you're going to use the system next.

You can't download two things at once (update + a demo), so it wouldn't download whatever's left unless the system is turning on to grab a demo that Sony pushes out to PS+. You could easily play a game while this extremely large demo is downloading so that it downloads in the background like on XBL, though playing anything online will cause it to stop, like on XBL. Unless I missed something, you don't have PS+ and thus don't really need to worry or get upset about what you're paying for since it's not doing what you thought it did. The Automatic Download feature is just an added bonus to the actual content that they get, though I'd prefer it to be free because it's a really good idea.

I'm sorry, man, but you're really not selling me on PS+ over XBL.

I didn't know that my sole reason to be here was to sell you on PS+. I don't care if you want it or not, as I was just correcting a false fact that you were loudly yelling about.


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#336 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 10:17 PM

Second, hooray for Wombat for noting something I agreed with. Sony should consider copying what's popular. 3rd person actions sells? Well then let's make a good 3rd person action adventure game. You don't need to beat Mass Effect or Fable or Gears on the PS3. You just need to offer the people who want to play that type of game something to buy on your system that is similar and technically sound.


Uncharted?

#337 jkanownik

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 11:06 PM

Sony and Microsoft have been trying to do that for years. It doesn't work, the dream of unmatched cinematic realism only sells to the hardcore gamers that have already purchased their consoles. To the masses Kinect, Move and the Wii are what sell, the Wii already showed that this generation.


There are different markets and a difference between mass (e.g. Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto) and casual (e.g. Wii Sports/Mario).

I wasn't talking about the casual market. I was talking about the fact that Gears of War 2 sold 50% better than Uncharted 2 in the US. Or that Red Dead on 360 crushed the PS3 version in the US. Or that Heavy Rain didn't have a cinematic trailer run on TV or in theaters in the US.
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#338 Blackout

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 11:23 PM

True, Ship at least plays PSP, Wii and DS games when Cheapy won't even blow the dust off those consoles.


Yet Ship can't tell that Socom and Call of Duty are two totally different games for different types of markets.

The more I think about how completely ridiculous this entire episode was, the more I think that this episode could be the CAGCast's "jump the shark" moment. :)



#339 Das_Regal

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 11:41 PM

I think Microsoft exclusives are pretty much always going to sell better in the US than Sony exclusives on the whole because Microsoft exclusives are developed from a US viewpoint whereas Sony's tend to be more European, Global, or Japanese. No amount of marketing is gonna change that.

Sony really has the best long-term strategy if they can keep an edge in European and Japanese markets, because America is going to continue to lose its economic edge, and as other markets grow, they'll be more prevalent worldwide. They're trending the right direction.

Microsoft however... They're still catering too heavily to the NA crowd. As cliche as it is to say, they need to diversify their portfolio. I suppose they tried with Alan Wake, but we saw how well Xbox360 fans supported that venture.

#340 bredbu

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 11:50 PM

I'd love to see the flowchart of thoughts that brought you to this conclusion.


im just saying as im listening to your speech it reminds me of times when my friends would get a cooler toy than i had and i would try to justify why mine was still better. I actually have not really read any of the other comments i was referring to the podcast while listening to it.

Dont get me wrong i really like you and cheapy and wombat and i love the show. Im just saying it felt a little bit defensive/jealous

#341 cplater

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:04 AM

You guys are spot on when it comes to the PS3. Sony has everything to loose this generation. It's not that there's no good games for the PS3, it's just that there are few AAA / blockbuster exclusives. Sony is seriously fumbling the ball, and I wish they'd just recover it, and score a touchdown.
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#342 jh6269

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:20 AM

Which it can't do anyway, as the closest is the system being able to finish downloading and installing games before turning itself off.


Are you sure PlayStation Plus does not automatically download patches for you? I'm reading the PlayStation website and it claims that it does:

We know your time is worth a lot. So why not enjoy having patches, select demos and other cool content pushed to your PS3™ system? We've also made it way easier for PlayStation® Plus users to get their firmware updates.

Source

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought that the 360 automatically downloads patches too, and what the other person is saying is that you must have PlayStation Plus to get that functionality.

I really don't know, since I don't have PS Plus or a 360.

#343 HatManTC

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:14 AM

You guys are spot on when it comes to the PS3. Sony has everything to loose this generation. It's not that there's no good games for the PS3, it's just that there are few AAA / blockbuster exclusives. Sony is seriously fumbling the ball, and I wish they'd just recover it, and score a touchdown.


what's your definition of a blockbuster??

there about 10 AAA(metacritic average) games exclusive to the PS3 and same goes for the 360. so going buy AAA status alone both systems are very even.

#344 DarkNessBear

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:30 AM

You guys are spot on when it comes to the PS3. Sony has everything to loose this generation. It's not that there's no good games for the PS3, it's just that there are few AAA / blockbuster exclusives. Sony is seriously fumbling the ball, and I wish they'd just recover it, and score a touchdown.


You mean Gears or Halo? Which is only "OMG" in America which 360 is an American console. I don't even think Japan knows what a Gears of War is.

The broader audience in NA only have room for two consoles; 1. the american created 'Xbox' 2. the small cheap family console Nintendo Wii. A hardcore Japanese/European tailored console Playstation is going to have a harder time getting ahead in this country - no matter what "GREAT" exclusives or how they market it out here. And the PS2 did it only because of little competition and the unfamiliar Xbox coming into the market that has yet to prove itself.

But my biggest question:
How the Fuck did the Cagcast bring the console wars back? Fuck... I haven't taken a console side in 4-5 years.
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#345 cplater

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:40 AM

You mean Gears or Halo? Which is only "OMG" in America which 360 is an American console. I don't even think Japan knows what a Gears of War is.


I'm not saying the 360 had more exclusives. Both the 360 and the PS3 have a lot of great multi-platform games between them, as well as their fair share of exclusives. Just like CheapyD, Wombat, and Shipwreck, I too have both console (well, all three,) and I prefer to play the 360. I'm not saying that's the choice for everyone, but it works for me.

I will say that I was surprised at the sales numbers the Shipwreck quoted for Resistance 2. Those were some of the first games that I played on my PS3, and I thought they were really great games.
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#346 DarkNessBear

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:45 AM

I'm not saying the 360 had more exclusives. Both the 360 and the PS3 have a lot of great multi-platform games between them, as well as their fair share of exclusives. Just like CheapyD, Wombat, and Shipwreck, I too have both console (well, all three,) and I prefer to play the 360. I'm not saying that's the choice for everyone, but it works for me.

I will say that I was surprised at the sales numbers the Shipwreck quoted for Resistance 2. Those were some of the first games that I played on my PS3, and I thought they were really great games.


You said their were few Blockbuster exclusives... I don't get what that means.

#347 cplater

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 02:20 AM

You said their were few Blockbuster exclusives... I don't get what that means.


Well, of course, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, and I just got caught.

Part of it is that some of the PS3 exclusives (Gran Turismo, Motorstorm to name a few,) don't appeal to me. I have LBP, both Uncharteds, and MGS4 (which was really disappointing to me.,) as well as God of War (Collection and III,) and Resistance (1 & 2.) As far as what's coming for the PS3 in 2011, about the only things I'm looking forward to are LBP2 and Uncharted 3.

I think my real point (and what I believe that the cagcast hosts are saying (not that I'd want to put words in their mouhts,)) is that the 360 is my go to system. I'm not saying that if you had to choose, and you only had the PS3 that you'd be stuck without any games. There are a lot of good titles on both systems.

Like I said in one of my earlier posts, Sony has everything to loose (in mind-share and market-share,) this generation, and it just feels like they are squandering their position (the PS1 and PS2 were leaders in their generation, and the PS3 can be at least tied for the lead in this generation (it certainly does as far as tech goes.) It's a great system, I'd just like to see Sony market it better to grow their market.

An example is the marketing push for Kinect vs. Move. My kids repeated the Kinect tag line so much, we almost had to ban it around our house. As for Move, they have no idea it even exists.

My whole reason for posting is just to let the hosts know that I feel the same way they seem to about this.

As a great man once said "Can't we all just (fucking) get along?"
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#348 YourHero

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:20 AM

I agree that the Dragon Age 2 limited time bonus is pretty lame on EA's part. Though with EA's project $10 I dont put it past them.

DLC is one thing, content that comes after the game. Heck, I even understand that some content gets cut due to time or technical issues and the team finishes it at a later date and sells it. Cool. With day zero DLC and DLC that is designed in tandem with the game, is off-putting and makes me want to NOT buy the game. When someone says 'hey games are art' I just refer them to this business practice to remind them that the industry is there to make money.

I am even OK with SOME pre-order bonuses like skins and weapons (single player only), but when does it stop? Each store has thier own items and you never know which one is going to be actually usefull in the game. It has become too much of a bother, I usually just end up picking the "wrong" one anyways.

Bleh, I could talk (complain) about this for hours. I do agree with Wombat though.

#349 jh6269

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:23 AM

I don't think it's a war, but more of a debate (at least for rational people). Everyone agrees Sony has issues but we're debating on what those issues are (i.e., the games, marketing, strategy, etc.). And of course, certain people will bash one console/company or the other.

I don't care what Sony does to pull themselves out of this mess, but I love the games they're making and I want to see these great games get the attention they deserve.
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#350 DarkNessBear

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:26 AM

I don't think it's a war, but more of a debate (at least for rational people). Everyone agrees Sony has issues but we're debating on what those issues are (i.e., the games, marketing, strategy, etc.). And of course, certain people will bash one console/company or the other.

I don't care what Sony does to pull themselves out of this mess, but I love the games they're making and I want to see these great games get the attention they deserve.

What's the mess?

If you are talking about being ~4 million sales behind 360 - than Microsoft is in a huge mess being ~33million behind the Wii.

#351 shaft2000

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:05 AM

Great show. only one gripe though, you guys seem like you don't want to deal with anything ps3 related. And since you don't talk about PC gaming that much, why don't you drop sony talk or get another reviewer that's a fan of sony. Don't get me wrong Shipwreck does a great job, but he cant do all of the work. :applause:

#352 HatManTC

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:13 AM

I will say that I was surprised at the sales numbers the Shipwreck quoted for Resistance 2. Those were some of the first games that I played on my PS3, and I thought they were really great games.


I'm not surprised, they released it too close to Killzone 2. R2 was released mid to late November, KZ2 early February... there needed to be more space between the two of then

#353 jh6269

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:46 AM

What's the mess?

If you are talking about being ~4 million sales behind 360 - than Microsoft is in a huge mess being ~33million behind the Wii.


I was mainly talking in terms of the US, where they have the biggest problem. Going from being #1 to #3, they lost a ton of marketshare in the US to the point that they can only hope to possibly break even in terms of investment and in catching up to the 360 worldwide (which they probably will do).

If all of the current PS2 owners bought a PS3, they'd be beating the Wii right now. However, they priced the console out of range of most of their previous customers.
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#354 Das_Regal

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:27 AM

The price is what kept me from getting a PS3 at first and why I bought my 360 before my PS3. When I got a 360 it was 200 for an arcade and 400 dollars for a PS3, so I bought a 360.

There was a nice backlog of games that kept me happy for a long time without needing to buy digital content of any sort, so I didn't really even need a harddrive (the internal flash memory unit was perfect for save games). It was the most bang for my buck by far, and despite the fact that I knew off in the back of my mind that I really wanted a PS3, I settled for a 360 until I got a decent job and could afford to buy a PS3 about two years later.

Now I'm at the point that I don't play my 360 often, and with all of the games coming out for PS3 this year I'm thinking of selling it so that I won't miss any of the exclusive titles I'm psyched for. I don't say this because I don't like my 360, I do, I just like PS3 more. I was an enormous PS1 and PS2 fan, and if PS3 had been better handled at launch I probably would've never given Microsoft a dime because their exclusives and their culture of design don't interest me.

To be fair, I think the limitations of the Xbox360 are going to become more and more apparent now. PS3 murdered the 360 in Final Fantasy XIII sales because of the bluray drive, even in North America. The more games that come out which take advantage of having that extra space, the better that initial gambit is going to look.

That's also why I think Microsoft is going to be the first to come out with a next-gen console. We're already approaching the point where multi-DVD requirements are gonna start cropping up for cutting-edge games (like Mass Effect 2).

#355 ShockandAww

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:52 AM

Is the new CAGcast going up today? I want to hear about the show feedback from this ep. haha. Did you find any valid points in all the bitching or just tell us all to suck it cuz PS3 sucks!

#356 shipwreck

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:04 PM

Is the new CAGcast going up today? I want to hear about the show feedback from this ep. haha. Did you find any valid points in all the bitching or just tell us all to suck it cuz PS3 sucks!


I think the new CAGcast will be up Monday. We had some scheduling conflicts this week.
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#357 ShockandAww

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:17 PM

I think the new CAGcast will be up Monday. We had some scheduling conflicts this week.

:cry: Thanks!

Edit: another possible game changer are the PS3 hacks. They could potentially ruin online gaming on PS3...apparently they've already made Modern Warfare 2 FUBAR and the platinum trophy hacks make those pretty worthless now (as if showing off your trophies wasn't lame enough).

#358 blitz6speed

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:42 PM

:cry: Thanks!

Edit: another possible game changer are the PS3 hacks. They could potentially ruin online gaming on PS3...apparently they've already made Modern Warfare 2 FUBAR and the platinum trophy hacks make those pretty worthless now (as if showing off your trophies wasn't lame enough).


Perhaps you should do some research on the things you supposedly know as fact.

MW2 has been hacked to heck and back on both ps3 and 360 for over a year. Infinity Ward is just taking the news of the PS3 hack as a way to blame sony, even tho i can point you to hundreds of videos on youtube with MW2 PS3 hacked with lobbies and god mode etc all before any type of hack existed.

The trophy hacks you speak of cannot be synced to the sony server. You can give yourself 100 platinums, but they cannot be synced online ever because there is a protection on them to check for validity, and there is no way around it.

So keep mouthing off. You fit the profile of what a uneducated fanboy is supposed to look like. Uninformed.

#359 ShockandAww

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:31 PM

Perhaps you should do some research on the things you supposedly know as fact.

MW2 has been hacked to heck and back on both ps3 and 360 for over a year. Infinity Ward is just taking the news of the PS3 hack as a way to blame sony, even tho i can point you to hundreds of videos on youtube with MW2 PS3 hacked with lobbies and god mode etc all before any type of hack existed.

The trophy hacks you speak of cannot be synced to the sony server. You can give yourself 100 platinums, but they cannot be synced online ever because there is a protection on them to check for validity, and there is no way around it.

So keep mouthing off. You fit the profile of what a uneducated fanboy is supposed to look like. Uninformed.


A fanboy of what exactly? Read my other posts in the thread. I'm just playing devil's advocate basically. And isn't the issue with these new hacks that they are going to be much tougher to fix, if they can be at all?

And yes I know they can't be synced right now with the current hack. It's clearly going to get worse though across the board.

Think about when Killzone 3 comes out. Sonys probably not going to be able to get it under control and a minority of jackasses are going to ruin online.

#360 Azazael13

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:36 PM

It wouldn't be that bad. Sony can remote ban the consoles from PSN just like xbox does. It lets the people who want to do it play in their own sandboxes.

I still applaud what Geohot and f0 did though, and hopefully it will bring about the same change in the DMCA that the iPhone hack did.