Jump to content



Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

The "Stay Classy, Obama" Thread


  • Please log in to reply
419 replies to this topic

#31 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 February 2011 - 02:45 PM

Not everyone who goes to grad school studies medicine or law. A PhD in something like say Philosophy doesn't generally lead to a six figure salary. And really, not even all lawyers end up raking in the dough either. If you didn't go to one of the better schools and land a job in a big firm, you're kinda screwed.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#32 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 February 2011 - 03:07 PM

I'm not saying that I like this plan - I think that there are many better options for budget cuts. But, I really don't think that this is a big deal.


I can see your point - the proposal is more or less eliminating *sudsidized* loans for postgrad education.

Still, the idea of making education more costly when our nation is already woefully uneducated is of concern to me - particularly in light of our willingness to make sure the wealthy keep every bit of their wealth and power.
Posted Image

#33 depascal22

depascal22

    Daddy Fat Sacks

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 February 2011 - 09:26 PM

Uneducated masses don't demand revolution. They demand American Idol, NASCAR, and crappy fast food.

I don't understand why people try to get PhD is philosophy on the public's dime. I'm all about scholarship and education but tax payers shouldn't be forced to subsidize things that don't benefit the public at large. Roads, schools, healthcare, and the arts benefit us all. A handful of guys that can go on for hours about Nietzche, Kant, and Descartes? Tell me the value in that.

Also, doctors aren't hurting. I work with many different types of doctors at work. None of them are in the poor house. Neurosurgeons are still getting six figure sign on bonuses right out of residency. Is that true for everyone? No. But you can't tell me that a few extra years of interest is going to kill medicine in America. Doctors are like any other special interest group. They bitch and moan anytime policies are enacted that affect their bottom line.

Edited by depascal22, 16 February 2011 - 09:51 PM.


#34 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 February 2011 - 10:05 PM

Because philosophers seem to be some of the few people who understand that morality is a personal thing. That in my book is worth subsidizing it just to have a few people out there who understand that. so many people equate morality with the law, as if it's written somewhere in a book o'morality that this or that is moral/immoral.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#35 dopa345

dopa345

    All around nice guy

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 17 February 2011 - 01:13 AM

Also, doctors aren't hurting. I work with many different types of doctors at work. None of them are in the poor house. Neurosurgeons are still getting six figure sign on bonuses right out of residency. Is that true for everyone? No. But you can't tell me that a few extra years of interest is going to kill medicine in America. Doctors are like any other special interest group. They bitch and moan anytime policies are enacted that affect their bottom line.


Neurosurgeons are the high end of the salary spectrum and comprise a very small proportion of physicians. The problem is not that there will be fewer physicians, but that the supply of physicians will become heavily skewed towards specialties and away from primary care as the financial aspect becomes a bigger factor in how med school grads decide on their careers. When confronted with a $200,000+ educational debt, with reduced compensation in primary care (physician salaries, when adjusted for inflation have gradually declined over the last 20 years), they are going to opt for the higher paying specialities as a matter of necessity. Not a good a trend when the whole point of health care reform is to provide more access to care. Waiting times for primary care docs is becoming major issue. In my opinion, within the next 15-20 years, the concept of a primary care physician will cease to exist. Instead, primary care will be handled by mid-level providers like physician assistants and nurse practitioners. Sure they can handle the basic stuff but they lack the training and experience to discern whether your symptoms are benign or indicative of something more serious.

Edited by dopa345, 17 February 2011 - 02:18 AM.


#36 cindersphere

cindersphere

    Running on no sleep

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 17 February 2011 - 02:13 AM

Uneducated masses don't demand revolution. They demand American Idol, NASCAR, and crappy fast food.

I don't understand why people try to get PhD is philosophy on the public's dime. I'm all about scholarship and education but tax payers shouldn't be forced to subsidize things that don't benefit the public at large. Roads, schools, healthcare, and the arts benefit us all. A handful of guys that can go on for hours about Nietzche, Kant, and Descartes? Tell me the value in that.

Also, doctors aren't hurting. I work with many different types of doctors at work. None of them are in the poor house. Neurosurgeons are still getting six figure sign on bonuses right out of residency. Is that true for everyone? No. But you can't tell me that a few extra years of interest is going to kill medicine in America. Doctors are like any other special interest group. They bitch and moan anytime policies are enacted that affect their bottom line.


Hmmm, so you are arguing for anti intellectualism within education. Where have I not heard this before.
Religion ends and philosophy begins, just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins and astrology ends, and astronomy begins. - Christopher Hitchens 1949-2011

#37 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 17 February 2011 - 02:39 AM

Actually there is already an issue with a lack of general practitioners, it's one reason those little clinics have sprung up everywhere. The money is in specializing, not many doctors want to be the traditional family doctor anymore.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#38 dohdough

dohdough

    Sum Dum Guy

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 17 February 2011 - 03:00 AM

Uneducated masses don't demand revolution. They demand American Idol, NASCAR, and crappy fast food.

Not that I disagree, but isn't this a symptom and not the disease?

I don't understand why people try to get PhD is philosophy on the public's dime. I'm all about scholarship and education but tax payers shouldn't be forced to subsidize things that don't benefit the public at large. Roads, schools, healthcare, and the arts benefit us all. A handful of guys that can go on for hours about Nietzche, Kant, and Descartes? Tell me the value in that.

I think that there's a need for people that specialize in theory or sciences that might not see immediate results. Those philosophers form the backbone of many scientific, mathematical, psychological, and sociological laws and theories we have today.

Also, doctors aren't hurting. I work with many different types of doctors at work. None of them are in the poor house. Neurosurgeons are still getting six figure sign on bonuses right out of residency. Is that true for everyone? No. But you can't tell me that a few extra years of interest is going to kill medicine in America. Doctors are like any other special interest group. They bitch and moan anytime policies are enacted that affect their bottom line.

I think you're right on with this. Medical doctors are generally NOT the working poor. Yes, they may work long hours, but will easily make more money in 10 years than the average household will make in a lifetime despite those extended hours.

Arguing that doctors are going to be in the "poor house" with a little more interest is like saying someone that makes $250k a year is "barely making ends meet."(reference to another thread ;))

#39 depascal22

depascal22

    Daddy Fat Sacks

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:40 PM

Hmmm, so you are arguing for anti intellectualism within education. Where have I not heard this before.


I'm not arguing that at all. I just don't think the public should subsidize someone that's going for a PhD in philosophy. You want to get a degree in civil engineering, medicine, or elementary education? Please. Use my tax dollars. Cuts have to be made somewhere.

Please don't think that I'm anti philosophy but you all have to admit there's a huge difference between taking philosophy classes to become well rounded and going after a PhD in philosophy.

#40 cindersphere

cindersphere

    Running on no sleep

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 18 February 2011 - 02:35 AM

I'm not arguing that at all. I just don't think the public should subsidize someone that's going for a PhD in philosophy. You want to get a degree in civil engineering, medicine, or elementary education? Please. Use my tax dollars. Cuts have to be made somewhere.

Please don't think that I'm anti philosophy but you all have to admit there's a huge difference between taking philosophy classes to become well rounded and going after a PhD in philosophy.


Still anti intellectualism, your arguing that Philosophy is impractical, and that it should not be subsidized in the same way hard sciences or areas of education that benefit the masses are. That is a classic anti intellectualist argument.
Religion ends and philosophy begins, just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins and astrology ends, and astronomy begins. - Christopher Hitchens 1949-2011

#41 depascal22

depascal22

    Daddy Fat Sacks

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 18 February 2011 - 11:47 PM

Still anti intellectualism, your arguing that Philosophy is impractical, and that it should not be subsidized in the same way hard sciences or areas of education that benefit the masses are. That is a classic anti intellectualist argument.


I prefer to call it pragmatism. Cuts have to be made somewhere.

We can't say that all college degrees are equally important. You know that a bachelor's in philosophy is practically worthless but you want to pretend that we should use tax dollars to subsidize them as much as pre-med or engineering. It's impractical for our current deficit situation.

Our country doesn't need more philosophers. It needs more nurses, doctors, and engineers. If you want to study philosophy, do it on your own dime.

#42 Dr Mario Kart

Dr Mario Kart

    SD/2D Defense Force

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 18 February 2011 - 11:58 PM

Even if the contribution from a doctorate in philosophy is nothing but teaching philosophy at a university to others, then its still a good investment because the tax revenue from his salary will cover it in no time and then its profit from there.

#43 depascal22

depascal22

    Daddy Fat Sacks

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:13 AM

Even if the contribution from a doctorate in philosophy is nothing but teaching philosophy at a university to others, then its still a good investment because the tax revenue from his salary will cover it in no time and then its profit from there.


http://chronicle.com...sionals/28236

Teaching jobs are harder to find in a tough economy. It's even worse in fields where there are little practical applications. Engineers can always get jobs doing work. Philosophers have to pray for a teaching job or a think tank position.

EDIT -- Even political science is hurting: http://www.insidehig...0/09/03/polisci

Again, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be going into these fields. I just don't think we should be paying for it.

#44 cindersphere

cindersphere

    Running on no sleep

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:30 AM

Pragmatism, that is what the Bolsheviks called it 90 years ago.

But if you want to call it pragmatism, that is completely fine. Cut them in the name of pragmatism. However I would expect that when the operating budgets for science departments plummets and that you will need increase govt. spending just to cover the money that humanities departments brought in for the sciences. In most colleges, mine included, most of the humanities budget goes straight to our science department (such is the way of the world and why me and a guy who requires the use of machine that costs an entire year of my schooling both pay the same flat rate), which is going to be sizeable since humanities majors are not exactly small.

Grant me a paragraph to explain why I am completely against your reasoning. You have some good points such as cuts need to be made somewhere, however your application of said point is not something I agree with. While I may not agree with the inclusion of majors such as techno cultural studies (yes it is a real major), I am not opposed to having it in college because of my belief in justice and society. I believe that a country should subsidize all college programs on the basis on equality, and as a way to help mitigate the effects of privilege. To me your position would reinstate it within the college system, mostly because these majors no longer receiving aid would again lapse into only those who can afford them and become privy only to the better advantaged. This I am against, no matter how “pragmatic” it may be, especially considering that Medicare, social security, and in a few years interest on debt will make up 70 percent or more of the budget, and you choose to harp on this. Hell, as much as it pains me to say it considering I have family members who serve, we need to cut the budgets of our armed forces, and in my own state prison spending (it still boggles my mind how a prison inmate can get a fully paid education but a ex-marine does not, it just seems wrong to me) before we think about educational budget cuts.
Religion ends and philosophy begins, just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins and astrology ends, and astronomy begins. - Christopher Hitchens 1949-2011

#45 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2011 - 03:51 AM

Did anyone see that 9/11 truther that Obama sent to Bill Maher's show? Dude was screaming and acting like a jerk.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#46 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2011 - 03:56 AM

I didn't hear what the guy (the one shouting in the crowd?) was saying.
Posted Image

#47 IRHari

IRHari

Posted 19 February 2011 - 08:25 AM

He was yelling about drone attacks that kill people. They were discussing how Muslim women are treated and the crazy Fuck started yelling how we're bombing and killing Muslim women.

I wasn't able to make out what he said about 9/11.
"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#48 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2011 - 04:58 PM

I thought I heard something, he was rambling on about all kinds of shit. This is the second time someone has done this.

I have to agree with what Maher was saying about how women are treated here vs. how they are treated in many conservative middle eastern countries. I mean things aren't perfect here, but some of the things that they feel are perfectly acceptable (both socially and legally) just aren't comparable.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#49 xxDOYLExx

xxDOYLExx

    I Swallowed A Bug

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2011 - 08:14 PM

Did anyone see that 9/11 truther that Obama sent to Bill Maher's show? Dude was screaming and acting like a jerk.


what episode?
You know were in the fade, right?

#50 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2011 - 08:19 PM

Just last night. He mentioned muslim women being killed by missile strikes and said Maher continues to reaffy the lies about 9/11. I actually wish they'd shown it happening, because the guy was freaking out as they apparently dragged him out of there. Last time this happened it was over quickly, but it sounded like they had a group of guards dragging him out from the way he was screaming.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#51 Clak

Clak

    Made of star stuff.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:51 PM

I knew that damn librul would side with the homos.

http://news.yahoo.co...us_gay_marriage

We need more conservatives with family values!!!
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#52 nasum

nasum

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:21 PM

We need more conservatives with family values!!!


trolling on CL!

I seriously can't understand how this is still an issue in america. If we allow gay marriage, then the gays and their damn outrageous whoring will have balls on all our faces within weeks! I for one am against balls on my face, I prefer them against my thigh where they belong!
3DS Buddy Code 2767-0055-5245 send a pm with your code if you add and I will return the favor
XBL - Nasum2

#53 IRHari

IRHari

Posted 23 February 2011 - 10:35 PM

Good for him. Sounds like this case is different then other laws that the DoJ might have to defend. But other administrations have exercised discretion:

Numerous administrations refused to defend statutes before: http://$$$$$$/Am5yKR more: http://$$$$$$/3A46rz @LevineChiro @kirstenpowers10


"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#54 Kirin Lemon

Kirin Lemon

    世界を革命する者

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:10 PM

And of course, Faux News immediately brings in someone from the National Organization for Marriage, a designated hate group, to voice their outrage. Watch the two worthless cunts go apeshit.


Posted Image

#55 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 24 February 2011 - 12:20 AM

I can't look at Maggie Gallagher and "NOM" and do anything but laugh my fuckin' ass off.
Posted Image

#56 IRHari

IRHari

Posted 24 February 2011 - 12:35 AM

Posted Image
"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#57 IRHari

IRHari

Posted 04 March 2011 - 12:43 AM

As usual, Obama ignores the will of the American people (from the Communist WSJ/NBC poll):

Posted Image

Stay classy.

Edited by IRHari, 04 March 2011 - 01:24 AM.
source of poll

"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#58 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 March 2011 - 01:17 AM

source of that poll?
Posted Image

#59 nasum

nasum

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 04 March 2011 - 05:06 PM

So tax the wealthy is cool, but doing something constructive with the money isn't? Stay Classy confused and huddled masses...
3DS Buddy Code 2767-0055-5245 send a pm with your code if you add and I will return the favor
XBL - Nasum2

#60 Feeding the Abscess

Feeding the Abscess

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 07 March 2011 - 11:31 PM

Gates and Petraeus were giggling and joking about bombing Libya while deciding we're going to be in Afghanistan well past 2014 today.

Stay classy, asswipes.