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Wii U General Discussion Thread


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#3361 dothog

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

I think the appropriate context for the information about the WIIU's CPU/GPU power is the expectation people have of their games, Nintendo fans and Nintendo titles included. NOT what the PS3/360/PS4/720 can/will do.

During the lifecycle of the Wii, Nintendo acknowledged that its customers wanted HD resolutions on big ticket titles. Furthermore, Nintendo saw that as an opportunity to spin the WIIU as a kind of multimedia center for the Family. Those are the big objectives for the console alone. I'm not addressing the tablet, here, I'm talking about the box that plugs into your HDTV.

Anyhow, with those two objectives in mind, to release a new console whose guts aren't particularly suited to multimedia processes is a bit of an eye crosser. I'm talking about how those internals perform for the kinds of tasks you need if you want HD games and multimedia bullshit (Netflix, so on.)

They've saved some cash per unit in the near-term by keeping the guts cheap, but by doing that, they've made it so that 1) they're straining the CPU/GPU at launch to deliver on HD for first-party titles and, more importantly, 2) they've turned third-parties away who *may* have considered developing for the WIIU. And I know, I know, most of the people in this thread don't care about 3rd parties, you're in it for Mario/Zelda/etc., but in terms of the success of the WIIU, Nintendo's not in a position to discount 3rd party support.

I don't envy Nintendo trying to make money in home consoles. And I guess I don't envy them in the handheld market, either: the smart phone threat is going to overtake them. It ain't easy bein' Nintendo.
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#3362 SaraAB

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:07 PM

If the Gamepad keeps the library on the Wii U small then it is a problem, I would rather have a larger game library than a Gamepad controller if I have to choose. Again I really don't care about what the guts of a console are, but if it prevents certain games from being played on it then it becomes a problem. I buy consoles for the game library not for anything else, any other features are simply a bonus.

I think Nintendo has carved out enough of a niche with the 3DS at least for now to differentiate from smartphones but if they continue to charge $40 for digital games and put out expensive day 1 DLC for most games then it will just be like owning a less capable and more expensive smartphone. Though the cartridge option is still there for now. I see a lot of people getting 3DS systems now, when pokemon comes out in October that number will be even higher. If the buyers don't have a 3DS and they want to play pokemon once it comes out you know a whole ton of people will be picking up the system and the game since its a system seller, With the price of the 3DS being pretty low these days and the system going on sale often its not hard to pick one up in addition to a smartphone.

#3363 foltzie

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:28 PM

It seems that deciding to keep BC with the Wii may have been a fatal mistake, depsite the fact that I would have argued until I was blue in the face that it was a needed additon. A software layer ala the first Xbox or perhaps allowing the Wii to send data to the Wii U via USB would have been a better solution and allowed Nintendo to craft a better console without having to test BC so much.

#3364 SaraAB

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:45 PM

I am not sure what they would have done with the E-shop if they didn't have full backwards compatibility. I assume if they were going to move the E-shop over to the Wii U they probably would have had to shut down the shop for the Wii, which would make a lot of people very, very angry. Of course if they had a universal account system people could just sign in with an account and redownload their games onto the Wii U even if it was just a one time allowance even though that still doesn't fix the fact that they would somehow have to merge e-shops while still keeping the Wii one alive.

#3365 moothemagiccow

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:46 PM

I miss the derp thread. Now this is the derp thread. Dammit
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#3366 htz

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:32 AM

It seems that deciding to keep BC with the Wii may have been a fatal mistake, depsite the fact that I would have argued until I was blue in the face that it was a needed additon. A software layer ala the first Xbox or perhaps allowing the Wii to send data to the Wii U via USB would have been a better solution and allowed Nintendo to craft a better console without having to test BC so much.

Here is another article that was published only a few days after the Wii U launched predicting how easy it would be to hack the Wii U and why.

There is an old saying: history tends to repeat itself. Using this as a basis, I’m gonna make a very superficial and personally driven analysis of the Wii U system and it’s possible flaws.

To do this, I will go back two generations, to the golden era of consoles, the sixth generation. In this generation we find the Gamecube as Nintendo’s answer to the Ps2, the Dreamcast and the Xbox. The security system found in the Gamecube is very similar to the one found on the Dreamcast: it heavily based on preventing the game medium from being copied. In this case, the Gamecube used a DVD-based format called the GOD (Gamecube Optical Disc). These discs were (and for the most part are still) unreadable by PC DVD-Drives. While I won’t get into details of how the Gamecube security works (I’ll do it another time), but I can tell you, that the Gamecube was, for the most part, the most secured console of it’s generation, it’s scene can be compared to the one we now find in the ps3: late and limited.


The problem is, by the time the Wii was released, the Gamecube was already hacked up and down, both the system itself and the proprietary Disc format it used. This, combined with the fact that the Wii was basically a Gamecube 1.5, made Wii hacking a lot easier. To have a clearer picture, imagine if sony basically made the Vita with the same exact hardware as the psp, only a bit faster, which is what the pspemu is inside of the vita and it’s why it was hacked.


To sum up: the Wii was hacked because it was too similar to the Gamecube, which was already hacked when the Wii came out.
Now, you may be asking what this has to do with the Wii U, nothing! except that this time, Nintendo has done the same thing! the Wii U uses a similar hardware than the one found on the Wii: a PowerPC CPU and an ATI GPU (it’s called AMD now btw).


You might not know this, but the Wii mode inside the Wii U is already hacked, pretty much like the pspemu inside the vita. The difference here, like I said, is that the Wii U is very similar to the Wii and the Gamecube, while the Vita hardware is different from the Psp, which could mean breaking out of the wii sandbox should be fairly easier than breaking from the pspemu sandbox. This was true for the Wii and Gamecube, specially since the Wii never emulated the Gamecube, it didn’t need to, it ran Gamecube code natively. If the same applies to the Wii U, then we might see a native Wii U hack coming right after the Wii mode hack.

Pretty much the Wii U was vulnerable from day 1 because Nintendo chose to use the same dated hardware architecture, which hackers have gained a ton of knowledge on from Wii/Gamecube. BC didn't really cause the Wii U to be hacked cause it was sandboxed. The way Marcan from fail0verflow first got access to the Wii U was reading memory from the espresso CPU which shouldn't had been possible if Nintendo implemented a memory firewall.

#3367 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:53 AM

I buy Nintendo Systems to play Nintendo games so it doesnt really bother me if they get support from EA, etc.

But yes, by all means if you don't play Nintendo games, please sell your system. If you have no interest in their games, why even get their system?


i love nintendo games but for me mario has become stale so stale they made new super lugi. i love zelda but they are going the easy way out by making a hd remake really? you will accept a hd remake and not a brand new zelda game. i also got a wii u for rayman and well that is no longer exlusive.

#3368 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:01 AM

the reason why most people are up in arms about not so great 3rd party support is that it's how nintendo was trying to sell wii U. All e3 last year was talked about 3rd party support this 3rd party support that and major one why people got wii u was because of rayman. I understand when people say oh well i only buy nintendo system for nintendo games thats great but that is not how nintendo marketed this system. Nintendo is starting to realize they messed up with major push for 3rd party support now this info comes out about the real power or lack of power in this system. As a gamer that loves nintendo as gaming company has me scared that nintendo will be left in dust once ps4 and next xbox hits stores

#3369 Deader2818

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:34 AM

i love nintendo games but for me mario has become stale so stale they made new super lugi. i love zelda but they are going the easy way out by making a hd remake really? you will accept a hd remake and not a brand new zelda game. i also got a wii u for rayman and well that is no longer exlusive.


There is a new Zelda coming out as well for Wii U.

Its cool though, you really should just sell yours.

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#3370 ZForce915

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:15 PM

I feel like this exchange (Nintendo platform is underpowered, no third party support, it doesn't matter because first party rules) has been happening every month since the GameCube was released.

See you guys in a month.
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#3371 RedvsBlue

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:43 PM

I feel like this exchange (Nintendo platform is underpowered, no third party support, it doesn't matter because first party rules) has been happening every month since the GameCube was released.

See you guys in a month.


If message boards had been as popular as they are now when the N64 released we would have been hearing the same thing about N64 also, just substitute using cartridges for underpowered.

#3372 SaraAB

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:17 PM

Sadly the Gamecube probably had the best game lineup of any Nintendo console after the N64, other than system exclusives you didn't miss much if you had one, it had plenty of 3rd party games. It also had actual Pokemon games which the Wii does not have.

#3373 RedvsBlue

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:00 PM

Sadly the Gamecube probably had the best game lineup of any Nintendo console after the N64, other than system exclusives you didn't miss much if you had one, it had plenty of 3rd party games. It also had actual Pokemon games which the Wii does not have.

GameCube has aged incredibly well and might be starting to take my pick as.my favorite console of all time. It may have had a small library but it had some fantastic games, certainly some of the best entries in the Nintendo franchises.

#3374 Crunchewy

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:14 PM

Donkey Konga!

Actually I love Donkey Konga, but it's allegedly best part - playing with friends - for me that didn't work well. Everybody's drums would set off other's mics. I found it infuriating. I preferred it solo.

But the main reason to have a GC is to hack it to support Japanese games and then get that nutty spinning propeller game. Fun! Unfortunately my hacked GC seemed to stop working as a hacked GC and my copy of that game is sitting on the shelf ever since, unplayed. Sad. I keep meaning to take it back apart and see if it's fixable.

Edited by crunchewy, 14 May 2013 - 06:24 PM.

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#3375 soonersfan60

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:25 PM

I think one thing people missed in the article is that they are saying that because of Steam and PC and other cheaper open source alternatives coming that can play games (incl. these 3rd party titles), that the Xbox720 and PS4 are also "doomed" unless they come up with new control peripherals... exactly the tact that Nintendo took! I think some of you are reading more into the article about it signaling the death of WiiU, when it was talking more about closed hardware in general. It just so happened that the focus on breaking the security was on the WiiU because it came out first. The article was way more "balanced" than the fanboys are giving it credit for...

#3376 SaraAB

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:25 PM

Maybe that is why the value of GC games are up so much. Unlike the Wii I can't think of a truly terrible game that is on the GameCube. I mean the Wii has games like Action Girlz racing that are so broken you cannot even play them, even considering the most extreme examples of shovelware on the GameCube they are not as bad as the ones on the Wii. What is also sad is that a lot of GameCube games look better on my HDTV played through the Wii than Wii games do especially the ones that play in progressive mode on the Wii. I have no idea how that is possible but it is.

#3377 moothemagiccow

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:45 PM

derp
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#3378 AFRO insomniac

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:57 PM

I sincerely hope that Nintendo goes the Gamecube route with the Wii U. The Gamecube was one of my favorite, if not most favorite Nintendo consoles.

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#3379 htz

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:52 PM

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I guess fail0verflow wasn't joking when they said ouya's CPU is better than Wii U's Espresso CPU cause EA just announced Frostbite Go engine for mobile today.

#3380 Deader2818

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:49 PM

I wouldn't really use EA as proof of anything. Frostbite 2 worked fine on Wii U and they just don't want to support them at all because they wouldn't let them make Origin their online service.

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#3381 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:51 PM

Sadly the Gamecube probably had the best game lineup of any Nintendo console after the N64, other than system exclusives you didn't miss much if you had one, it had plenty of 3rd party games. It also had actual Pokemon games which the Wii does not have.


gamecube is my fav nintendo system just over snes and 64. it had alot of great exlusives also

#3382 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:53 PM

I think one thing people missed in the article is that they are saying that because of Steam and PC and other cheaper open source alternatives coming that can play games (incl. these 3rd party titles), that the Xbox720 and PS4 are also "doomed" unless they come up with new control peripherals... exactly the tact that Nintendo took! I think some of you are reading more into the article about it signaling the death of WiiU, when it was talking more about closed hardware in general. It just so happened that the focus on breaking the security was on the WiiU because it came out first. The article was way more "balanced" than the fanboys are giving it credit for...


no one wants to use a peripheral to play games thye just want a normal controller which is why ps move and kinect has been a flop

#3383 Deader2818

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:56 PM

Kinect has been a flop because there are no good games for it.

hell, same as move really.

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#3384 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:56 PM

I wouldn't really use EA as proof of anything. Frostbite 2 worked fine on Wii U and they just don't want to support them at all because they wouldn't let them make Origin their online service.


how do you know it worked on wii u? after hearing how bad the stuff is in the wii u i would not be shocked it would not work. frostbit 2 was even pushing it on 360 and ps3 and really was not the full frost bite 2 engine you see on pc version of bf3.

#3385 Deader2818

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:01 AM

how do you know it worked on wii u? after hearing how bad the stuff is in the wii u i would not be shocked it would not work. frostbit 2 was even pushing it on 360 and ps3 and really was not the full frost bite 2 engine you see on pc version of bf3.


Need for Speed Most Wanted runs best on Wii U compared to ps3 and 360. Need for Speed was actually ported from the PC version to Wii U. Also Crytek had their CryEngine up and running and Crysis 3 was working on the Wii U till EA pulled the plug and refused to publish it.

the sports titles and Mass effect were bad ports but they still ran fine.

Seriously, EA has just been acting like babies. There is a reason they have been voted worst company in America two years running.

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#3386 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:02 AM

Kinect has been a flop because there are no good games for it.

hell, same as move really.


companys would make games for it if they seen a market for it. For real most kinect games that are worth buying is party games. Their has been zero good games you would sit and play for hours on end. video games are met to be played with a controller.

#3387 Deader2818

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:03 AM

companys would make games for it if they seen a market for it. For real most kinect games that are worth buying is party games. Their has been zero good games you would sit and play for hours on end. video games are met to be played with a controller.


They have freaking Rare just making Kinect games but don't let them make anything but shovelware.

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#3388 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:06 AM

They have freaking Rare just making Kinect games but don't let them make anything but shovelware.


well expect that too change kinect 2.0 will be pushed at e3 for next xbox

#3389 Deader2818

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:08 AM

well expect that too change kinect 2.0 will be pushed at e3 for next xbox


I have little hope of Microsoft letting Rare actually make games again.

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#3390 TimboSliceGB

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:09 AM

i could go for another conker game but doudt that hapens