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Wii U General Discussion Thread


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#121 Javery

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:26 PM

I think a lot of it is parents would rather their young children be playing educational games on leapster or their ipad/iphone than those kind of Nintendo games. Nintendo could maybe make some more money in the toddle crowd by having some Mario Edutainment type games.


Ha! Before I had kids I thought the same thing but those games blow (they can tell) and kids learn a TON on their own (with guidance, of course). At that age video games are a treat and purely for fun, IMO.

And gaming skill varies by kids. I have a nephew thats 4 and a half or so, and he can't handle NSMB, Mario Kart, Mario, Lego Batman and Sonic Olympic games etc. that i tried to play with him over the hollidays, but other kids can for sure. I think he's just too hyper and doesn't have the patience/attention span to learn the controls etc.


I think 4 is a good age to start introducing video games and skill definitely varies by kid - my son is about 4.5 and he is already sick at video games but a lot of his friends are awful. He can finish Lego Batman easily and he is playing through a bunch of the other Lego games right now (Harry Potter, Pirates, Clone Wars, etc.). He is decent at NSMB but that game frustrates him once he gets past a few levels. I love watching him play with the Xbox controller - he hits every button without looking like it is second nature. Crazy. My daughter (7), on the other hand, hasn't shown as much of an interest in video games - she will play them but she doesn't really ever ask to do so. My son is miles better than she is at them.

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#122 lionheart4life

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:34 PM

I think this may be Nintendo's last console. Old people and little kids aren't going to care about a touch screen controller the way they did with basic motion control. Let's just hope that when Nintendo becomes a third party they don't ruin Mario and Zelda the way Sega did with Sonic.
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#123 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:37 PM

Ha! Before I had kids I thought the same thing but those games blow (they can tell) and kids learn a TON on their own (with guidance, of course). At that age video games are a treat and purely for fun, IMO.


I wasn't touting the merits of them. Just noting that Leapfrog stuff sells like hotcakes, as to Edutainment iphone/iPad apps, so there's clearly a market for it.

I think most of the market is parents just wanting a digital babysitter for their kids, and feeling less guilty about an crappy edutainment game than a regular video game though. :D

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#124 rlse9

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:40 PM

I doubt Nintendo is going to stop producing consoles anytime soon. Unlike Sega when they got out, Nintendo has been profitable with every console they've released. Even if Wii U is a failure, I doubt Nintendo would step away from a business that has been a huge success for them over the past 30 years.

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#125 TheLongshot

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:58 PM

Kirby's Epic Yarn is a perfect game for my 4 year old - same with all of the Lego games. YOU CAN'T DIE! It's that simple. If they made SMB or whatever the same way (as an option to be turned on) my kid would be able to play through that as well. Batman: Brave and the Bold is another game like that. It would be nice if most games implemented some type of "no fail" mode.


Funny, I just gave that to my son for Christmas .

I think a lot of it is parents would rather their young children be playing educational games on leapster or their ipad/iphone than those kind of Nintendo games. Nintendo could maybe make some more money in the toddle crowd by having some Mario Edutainment type games.


While my son does like his Leapster, it doesn't keep his attention like a DS does. He actually got his first DS this Christmas thanks to my mom, who didn't want my son left out amongst his cousins.

As for edutainment, Nintendo probably made a good amount of money on the Brain Age games. (My son actually likes playing those type of games on our cell phones.)
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#126 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 07:23 PM

I doubt Nintendo is going to stop producing consoles anytime soon. Unlike Sega when they got out, Nintendo has been profitable with every console they've released. Even if Wii U is a failure, I doubt Nintendo would step away from a business that has been a huge success for them over the past 30 years.


Agreed.

Selfishly I'd love to see them go third party as I'd love to get their franchises on a console I actually want to own (rather than having to buy a Nintendo console just to play them) but they're still profitable so that's not going to happen any time soon.

It would take multiple failures in both the console and handheld area for that to happen. And they're coming off big commercial successes with the Wii and DS.

F
While my son does like his Leapster, it doesn't keep his attention like a DS does.


For sure kids are more interested in the pure games than the learning ones. That's why I say the sales are more that many parents feel less guilty letting Leapster babysit their kids thana DS or Wii since they can justify it as being educational. Not saying you do that, just that's why those things sell like hot cakes in general.

As for edutainment, Nintendo probably made a good amount of money on the Brain Age games. (My son actually likes playing those type of games on our cell phones.)


Those appeal to adults to.

I'm more talking things that teach counting, reading etc. like Leapster games do. Parents would probably buy those up for the same reason they buy up Leapsters--they can let the Nintendo occupy the kid for a bit while they do other stuff, and feel better about it since it's "educational."

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#127 TheLongshot

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:06 PM

I'm more talking things that teach counting, reading etc. like Leapster games do. Parents would probably buy those up for the same reason they buy up Leapsters--they can let the Nintendo occupy the kid for a bit while they do other stuff, and feel better about it since it's "educational."


I did buy my son a reading game for his DS, and he does play with it. apparently it records his voice and plays it back for him.
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#128 dmaul1114

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:15 PM

Sure, and imagine how something like that would sell if it featured Mario and friends.

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#129 SaraAB

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 01:01 AM

I think a lot of it is parents would rather their young children be playing educational games on leapster or their ipad/iphone than those kind of Nintendo games. Nintendo could maybe make some more money in the toddle crowd by having some Mario Edutainment type games.

And gaming skill varies by kids. I have a nephew thats 4 and a half or so, and he can't handle NSMB, Mario Kart, Mario, Lego Batman and Sonic Olympic games etc. that i tried to play with him over the hollidays, but other kids can for sure. I think he's just too hyper and doesn't have the patience/attention span to learn the controls etc.


My 11 year old cousin cannot handle playing video games with the family without basically screaming and crying as I confirmed over the holidays, but this is a rant for another day.. he literately ruins it for everyone! Does anyone else have this with an 11 year old or is my situation unique? This is a kid who supposedly loves games sooo much too... So yes game skill does vary greatly by child.

I haven't seen a younger kid who doesn't get horribly frustrated by video games these days though. The mario games are in particular extremely frustrating for what they are, I know Nintendo has tried but they really should remove the timer or at least have options in them that gear themselves to the younger and inexperienced gamer. If they had options to remove the timer and make the game easier then kids could start off easy and eventually select a higher difficulty. Of course the harder modes would be left untouched so those looking for a challenge would have nothing to complain about. A very difficult, timed experience isn't what Wii owning parents signed up for when they bought New super mario bros for their kids.

I still think it would be very beneficial for Nintendo to expand its Mario franchise, and some of its other properties into younger-kid friendly and possibly edutainment games, ideally a little of both so parents have a choice.

#130 omster

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:27 AM

Super Baby Mario Bros.?

#131 KingBroly

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 06:08 PM

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#132 Toulouse

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:43 PM

Then people here would just yawn and say that Nintendo is just trying to play catchup.

One thing you have to remember about all of this: the casual and family market is the focus of Nintendo right now, because that's the market that cares the most about what Nintendo did with the Wii. The hard-core gaming crowd didn't care about the Wii and there is probably little Nintendo can do to win over that crowd, who mostly has found homes with Sony and Microsoft.


But that's just it, they do need to "play catchup." Not in becoming more Hardcore, but in simply possessing the technical capabilities of their competitors, whether it's Sony, MS, Apple, whoever.

They still don't know how to relate to developers. What would these kind of examples suggest to other media content providers for N's supposed ecosystem?

Maybe you're right, maybe this ecosystem is spoken for and on its way, but IMO Nintendo isn't equipped to make it into anything resembling success. It will, at best, duplicate existing services already provided by Nintendo (e.g. digital download delivery).

#133 KingBroly

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:08 AM

Steam's the same way. Why I don't know. Probably different reasons, but for Wii Ware, I imagine it's embarrassment over the platform.

Also, I'm confident there won't be Friend Codes. Yeah...I've tried writing that three times.
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#134 rlse9

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:18 PM

Also, I'm confident there won't be Friend Codes. Yeah...I've tried writing that three times.


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#135 Corvin

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 02:40 AM

fool me thrice, shame on both of us

#136 200STM

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:51 AM

I hope this does work for Nintendo.

#137 KingBroly

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:32 AM

I hope this does work for Nintendo.


In what sense?
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#138 200STM

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:48 AM

It brings the hardcore gamers like myself back!

#139 KingBroly

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:19 AM

And what would they need to do that exactly?

I mean, besides...
- No Friend Codes
- User Accounts
- VC/WW transfers
- Store Sales (Which is apparently happening this time)
- Actual Third Party Support

What do they need?
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#140 dmaul1114

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 03:49 PM

I think we've beat that point in the ground. And you hit most of the points.

For me the key ones are:

Top notch graphics. Not just at launch, but need to be on par with the Xbox 720 and PS4 or I won't buy until a Wii U is very cheap if at all.

Needs a standard controller. I'm not playing FPS and WRPG etc. with that unwieldy tablet controller. No standard controller packed in, I probably won't buy.

Robust online system. Gamertags instead of friend codes, party chat, cross game invites etc. Online on par with the MS and sony systems basically. And also need a full achievement/trophy system as I find that adds some replay value to games.

True third party support. All the big games, and they have to look and play just as good as they do on the Xbox 720 and PS4 when those consoles are out.

So in short, I probably ain't buying one as it's launching soon and will thus almost definitely be underpowered when the 720/PS4 launch. And I highly doubt they'll pack in a standard controller. They'll have another classic controller pro type accessory, and that won't get much third party support since not many developers will make games requiring a controller that wasn't included with the console.


The controller is my main concern. Nintendo has just shown no ability to make comfortable, ergonomic controllers lately. Wiimote with Nunchuck is pretty good. But Wiimote by itself sucks. Struggling a bit with Metroid Other M now as playing with the Wiimote sideways, and using that tiny d-pad, cramps my left hand up after an hour or so. And then there's the Kid Icarus 3DS game that was causing hand cramp problems. Rather than change the shitty control scheme their packing in a stand to put the 3DS on so people can play cramp free! http://ds.ign.com/ar..._source=twitter

Nintendo just sucks at making hardware. Have made nothing but bad decisions from the N64 on and haven't made a good controller since the SNES either. Still have a lot of good software though. As I said earlier, wish they'd fail and just go third party. But not going to happen any time soon as the Wii and DS sold like hot cakes and they have a stranglehold on the family/kid market. So you have to suffer through their hardware if you want to enjoy their software.

Edited by dmaul1114, 14 January 2012 - 04:01 PM.

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#141 KingBroly

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:34 PM

Classic Controller Pro. It's essentially the same layout as the Wii U Tablet, sans screen and the sticks are swapped. It's pretty awesome. And since Wii Remotes + Accessories will still be supported on Wii U, voila, there's your standard controller. And it's REALLY good, too.

Online support, like I said, no friend codes, user accounts. Those are two main factors that people have against Nintendo for "Not taking online seriously." The Tablet Controller apparently has a headset jack in it, so...I guess that means you can use headsets for it. The thing also has a camera and mic in it, so...video chat maybe? Perhaps that'd be a bit too up close and personal. Game-wise though...Smash needs to be stable online and have some kind of sticker/trophy trading system. In addition, the next NSMB game should have online co-op and an online level editor/sharer ala LBP. Just make the level on the tablet in 3-6 pieces and boom, upload it.

I agree with you on 3rd party support. Example time: RE4 on Wii, third re-release, sells over a million copies? What do Wii owners get? 2 lightgun shooters. Sorry, but that's a developer/publisher not taking the platform seriously. Activision put COD on the Wii and it sold a lot for what it offered in comparison.

The one thing I really fear is those late ports of games that are confirmed. I have a feeling those won't sell and that'll signal to developers to not take it seriously anymore, saying to others 'see, we can't sell on Nintendo platforms' when A, the install base is in its' infancy and B, they're late ports, which almost never sell. And yes, this has happened before, especially during this generation.

I'm sure 720/PS4 will be more powerful, but how much? If it causes the Wii problem, then yeah, it's going to run into problems again. But I kind of doubt that's going to happen IF Developers are on board Day 1, which they most certainly were not with the Wii.

And Nintendo has stated before, and remember it well: The day they stop making hardware is the day they stop making software.
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#142 dmaul1114

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:42 PM

But again, if the Classic controller is NOT packed in with every console, then third parties will not make games based on it very often. Games get made for the lowest common denominator--i.e. around what ever controller(s) are packed in with every console sold. Also, I'm not a big fan of the CC Pro as I hate side by side analog sticks, and it's just flimsy, light and cheap feeling. So they need to do better than that.

But we'll just go in circles on this. You're still a huge Nintendo fan and I've been let down by every console they've put out since the SNES, and especially by the GC and Wii in particular. So I'm not nearly as optimistic about Nintendo winning me over again as you are naturally. There's zero chance I buy a Wii U anywhere near launch. I'll only get one after a price drop or two and only if there's 10+ games I REALLY want to play. I've gotten burned buying a GC and Wii at launch and paying a premium for consoles that had very few games I wanted to play the first year or two, and relatively few games I loved over their whole lifespans.

#143 Corvin

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:28 PM

I loved the N64 pad and the Wavebird rocked. In terms of all time, I'd put them in the top 3 but behind the 360 controller (1. 360 2. Wavebird 3. N64). In terms of "classic control" they really need to get rid of that octagon design around the analog sticks.

I'm not as burned by Nintendo as dmaul, but it's clear that to hardcore gamers, a Nintendo console will always be a secondary system and nothing more. Once people come to grips with that, it's easier to accept whatever Nintendo puts out. Weird ass unwieldly tablet controller? Why not? I'm sure it will work great for Mario & Zelda. Limited online that lags 10 years behind the competition? Fine. I have a *insert MS or Sony console of choice*. Poor 3rd party support? Totally acceptable since the SNES and just grab those on the *insert MS or Sony console of choice*.

I do find it interesting that this will be the first time Nintendo is first to market since the NES. That helped them with the NES since video games were all but dead in the US, but in 2012 and coming off a smash success like the Wii? Things are going to be very interesting in the next 9 months.

Thinking about it more, if you think you will get the WiiU at some point, it might as well be launch. The 720 or PS4 won't be launching for at least a year, so you won't have to drop money on two consoles by the time the WiiU starts getting good games a year down the road.

#144 dmaul1114

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 03:42 PM

N64 had some good games, but I didn't care much for the controller. Weird shape and cramped my hands some. Analog stick wore out pretty quickly as well.

Wavebird was very nice shape wise. The GC controller just had the flaw of having that crappy right analog stick which sucked for dual analog games, and only having 3 face buttons which caused problems in ports since the other systems had 4.

I do agree with the sentiment that a Nintendo console just can't be more than a secondary console for a hardcore gamer. My problem is I don't game enough these days to keep up with all the games that interest me on one consoles, so I just don't need two (or three) consoles any more. I only have a Wii again as my Xbox 360 has been mostly a paperweight since my Live account got hacked in October as I'm not willing to play on a temp account and generate achievements and game saves that can't be transferred to my main account when I get it back. The Wii will probably switch over to being a paperweight once I get my Live account back.

I disagree with the sentiment of it making sense to buy a Wii U at launch. It just doesn't make sense to pay launch day price for a secondary console IMO. The 360 and PS3 will still be getting a lot of games right up until their successors are out since third party support is so strong. They won't have years like the Wii had this year with hardly anything coming out. Someone that's not much of a Nintendo fan should just keep playing those and wait for a price drop on a Wii U, vs. paying full price for it at launch when it will be a secondary console and still gather a lot of dust while they're playing games they're more interested in on the 360/PS3.

Only people who should buy a Wii U at launch, IMO, are the people who are still huge Nintendo fans. Anyone else will probably be let down with it and have it gather dust after they play the 1 or 2 AAA launch games and have to wait a while before another big Nintendo franchise game comes out--if past launches are any indication.

But that's not just Nintendo specific. Buying at launch is just for diehard fans period as every console tends to have between 1-3 AAA games at launch, and maybe another 2 or 3 decent second tier type games. That's not bad, but there tends to be a drought with nothing else great coming out for a year to 18 months as all the major developers shot their wad in rushing out launch games. So I doubt I'll buy another console at launch period. Now that I've decided not to bother with online MP much and mainly only play SP games , I don't have much incentive to buy consoles or games at launch vs. waiting for sales/price drops.

Edited by dmaul1114, 15 January 2012 - 04:00 PM.


#145 TheLongshot

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 07:49 PM

But that's not just Nintendo specific. Buying at launch is just for diehard fans period as every console tends to have between 1-3 AAA games at launch, and maybe another 2 or 3 decent second tier type games. That's not bad, but there tends to be a drought with nothing else great coming out for a year to 18 months as all the major developers shot their wad in rushing out launch games. So I doubt I'll buy another console at launch period. Now that I've decided not to bother with online MP much and mainly only play SP games , I don't have much incentive to buy consoles or games at launch vs. waiting for sales/price drops.


I just want to highlight this because this is a problem with any new console. Add in that the need for a new console in this generation is probably a lot less because the tech gain is minimal, it is going to be a bit tough for any new console.

Probably the biggest customers are going to be those who love their Wii and given enough at launch to sell them on the new console. Maybe being able to hook up a Wii to HDMI will be attractive to some. As usual, content is going to be king. If you have a "must have" game (say like Skyward Sword), people will buy consoles to play it.

I'm likely not going to get it at launch, not because there is anything wrong with it, but because my backlog is so huge.
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#146 willardhaven

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 08:05 PM

I didn't like this idea when they were selling it as the GBA link cable, and I don't like it now.
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#147 SaraAB

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:21 PM

Ok, for Nintendo to get me on board with their next console they need to stop making useless peripherals.
1. They cost extra money, not good since I am a CAG, I obviously want my games for as cheap as possible.
2. They clutter my house
3. Usually only used for one game
4. Used games almost always don't include said peripheral, which is often necessary to play the game.

They are already doing this with the 3DS with the circle pad pro and the stand that comes with kid icarus, I am not willing to pay extra money for plastic so I can play games. Everything should be playable with one controller, especially since they are using the Wiimotes and the classic controller for the games that should be more than enough controllers for Nintendo to choose from not to mention the new tablet. We don't need anymore controllers.

Just really glad I didn't buy into that guitar hero and rock band nonsense, you need a whole room to hold that stuff, and that is just space that I do not have.

Although Microsoft and pretty much every other company is guilty of this with Collector's editions that come with useless plastic, but at least the plastic isn't required to play the game, and there are regular editions available as well.

With the 3DS they have come out with 2 pieces of plastic within a year of release already.... lovely.

#148 dmaul1114

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:37 PM

Agreed with that. Peripherals=gimmicks.

I want games that stand on their own and are fantastic experience with plain old analog stick plus button controls.

And that doesn't just go for Nintendo. MS and Sony can lose me if they focus to much on Kinect and Move type stuff next generation. It's fine having those things for casual games, but I want to play my FPS, WRPG etc. with 100% traditional controls with no tacked on waggle or pointer nonsense.

#149 Corvin

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:21 PM

Interesting. I'd argue that the guitar hero/rock band stuff are the only peripherals worth owning this gen. They offered a gaming experience that you couldn't get elsewhere. Also unlike all the other gimmicks, they work with nearly two dozen games. Granted, they are all of the same genre, but at least they are supported by more than a single game. Look at WiiMotion+. What a joke that was.

#150 dmaul1114

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:50 PM

Yeah, the GH/RB games are fun. I just have a couple of guitars. Just don't have the space in my condo for the drums etc.

That said, I haven't played any of the music games in close to a year, so I've been debating try to sell them off. Played a lot of them end of last generation, beginning of this, but the novelty wore off.

I'd just rather lounge on the couch and relax than play more active games like that.


And Wiimotion plus gets to my point about the Classic Controller Pro above. If a controller is not packed in with every single console sold, it won't get much support as third parties aren't going to make games that require a controller than not every console owner has as they develop for the lowest common denominator to maximize sales potential.