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Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword Gold Bundle back at Amazon $69.99


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#151 FQRizzo

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:27 PM

Also it's the holiday season. What if these damaged items were intended as gifts? Are you going to give someone something that's damaged?

#152 JP73

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:29 PM

Got mine today in perfect condition from Amazon.

As far as the condition of the outer box, whether you're interested in keeping it or not is besides the point. If person pays the 'new' price for a new item, that item should be in new condition. Damage or dented boxes are not what you're paying for. There's already a precedent at Gamestop that they can get away with selling opened items as new, should we have a new precedent of retailers selling damaged or less than new condition items as new, for the same cost as non-damaged?

That's rhetorical of course. The point is the customer pays the cost of 'new' and they should get the item in new condition.

My two cents.


Except the item in this case wasn't damaged. Not one bit. just the box. If you order a TV and the box has some dings, which they all have because most are shipped just like that without a separate box, is that grounds for returning it if the TV performs as advertised, which is what this guys actual game and controller did?

And it's SOOOOOOOO not the same thing as an opened game being sold as new. In one scenario they open a game, put it in a paper sleeve, leave the case out there for countless customers to handle and flip through the manual, then sell it to you as "new" for the same price as an unopened copy. In another, everything is new, sealed , and unopened, but the packaging is a little dinged up. Which happens to be the case with a lot of shit. I mean, if every customer returned perfectly working items because the packaging had some minor damage, retailers would be fucked and people having an appliance in their house would be a rarity.

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#153 illennium

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:44 PM

Except the item in this case wasn't damaged. Not one bit. just the box. If you order a TV and the box has some dings, which they all have because most are shipped just like that without a separate box, is that grounds for returning it if the TV performs as advertised, which is what this guys actual game and controller did?

And it's SOOOOOOOO not the same thing as an opened game being sold as new. In one scenario they open a game, put it in a paper sleeve, leave the case out there for countless customers to handle and flip through the manual, then sell it to you as "new" for the same price as an unopened copy. In another, everything is new, sealed , and unopened, but the packaging is a little dinged up. Which happens to be the case with a lot of shit. I mean, if every customer returned perfectly working items because the packaging had some minor damage, retailers would be fucked and people having an appliance in their house would be a rarity.

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You are right, of course, but reason is unlikely to prevail in any discussion in which "collectors" are involved. You see, "collector" has lost its denotative meaning of "one who collects things" (as I do, and maybe you do too) and is now code for "whatever OCD or irrational behavior I want to engage in is acceptable and justifiable and who are you to judge."

Now, if the item is a gift, I do understand the concern. I too would not give a gift that was damaged even on the outside, because that sends a signal that either you're cheap (you bought them a damaged item at a discount) or that you're careless (didn't care enough to notice the damage or in fact damaged the item yourself in transit).

#154 HaloGX

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:47 PM

Except the item in this case wasn't damaged. Not one bit. just the box. If you order a TV and the box has some dings, which they all have because most are shipped just like that without a separate box, is that grounds for returning it if the TV performs as advertised, which is what this guys actual game and controller did?

And it's SOOOOOOOO not the same thing as an opened game being sold as new. In one scenario they open a game, put it in a paper sleeve, leave the case out there for countless customers to handle and flip through the manual, then sell it to you as "new" for the same price as an unopened copy. In another, everything is new, sealed , and unopened, but the packaging is a little dinged up. Which happens to be the case with a lot of shit. I mean, if every customer returned perfectly working items because the packaging had some minor damage, retailers would be fucked and people having an appliance in their house would be a rarity.

My three cents( I like to give the reader their moneys worth)


Really? You're comparing a TV box to a game box? Those are two different things. Maybe if the game boxes looked like a TV box, I'd see your point. And if the TV boxes looked more like game boxes (particularly Skyward Sword's), then I'd complain about the TV box too.

But what the user that posted right after my first posted, is a good point. It does help Amazon, or whomever, address a customer satisfaction concern. These companies are in business to serve us. We should be served as best as possible, and they should be aware of these things in order to serve us as best as possible.

#155 nnthomas

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:50 PM

You are right, of course, but reason is unlikely to prevail in any discussion in which "collectors" are involved. You see, "collector" has lost its denotative meaning of "one who collects things" (as I do, and maybe you do too) and is now code for "whatever OCD or irrational behavior I want to engage in is acceptable and justifiable and who are you to judge."


rofl. what does this even mean?
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#156 frowninclown

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:51 PM

my launch copy came in a box ymmv


Same. after hearing the horror stories on the boxes being demolished I feel sorry for you guys:cry:

#157 JP73

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:59 PM

Really? You're comparing a TV box to a game box? Those are two different things. Maybe if the game boxes looked like a TV box, I'd see your point. And if the TV boxes looked more like game boxes (particularly Skyward Sword's), then I'd complain about the TV box too.

But what the user that posted right after my first posted, is a good point. It does help Amazon, or whomever, address a customer satisfaction concern. These companies are in business to serve us. We should be served as best as possible, and they should be aware of these things in order to serve us as best as possible.


I'm not sure what would be the difference between a game box or TV box. Are you planning on using the game box in a way which you wouldn't the TV box? In each case, it's just a box that holds the item you spend your money on. And I could see if you had an issue with the a game case being damaged. Why exactly is it unacceptable for this particular Zelda box to have flaws, but perfectly fine for a TV box? Will the Zelda box hold a position of power in your household, while the TV box is just a peasant box?

Another thing to note is the box is very poor thin and cheaply made. This isn't like the Mario All Stars Box. To call the box paper thin would only be a slight exaggeration. So maybe, to fulfill your needs to complain, you can try complaining to the manufacturer for making a box, which apparently is a potential deal breaker, so flimsy and low quality.

And like the other reasonable poster said, yes, i can perfectly understand wanting a decent condition box if this is a gift. But I didn't think this was an issue, as the gentleman with the Sonic Avatar who started this discussion clearly meant it to refer to people buying it for themselves. For obvious, though superficial, reasons, if you are giving it as a gift, then I perfectly understand wanting a box that isn't cosmetically challenged.

#158 JP73

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:02 PM

rofl. what does this even mean?


I believe it means that people who are anal, petty, and incredibly OCD hide behind the "collector" label. I uhhhh.... I thought that was pretty clear and straightforward :-k

#159 LagFighter

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:04 PM

This should be obvious, but if you would like to respond to this, I would request that you please read everything I have to say first. Thanks!

--

Nintendo has no excuse, of course. I don't think the companies should be allowed a pass on this one; if something is offered as new it should be offered in new condition - I completely agree with this notion. I have had a bad experience with Gamestop in the past when I returned an opened and clearly-used copy of SoulCalibur IV which had been sold to me as new, and vowed to never shop there again. So yes, I get it.

I believe this particular case to be different. In terms of practicality, it makes no real difference if the outside box is scuffed or dented, considering that the innards (the game, which is itself wrapped in plastic, and the Wii Remote) are in perfect condition, having never been opened. They're not "used" - the insides are very much "new". I can vouch for this from personal experience.

Truth be told, I think filing a complaint or sending an email to either Nintendo or the retailer is a rational and necessary step. In fact, I'll probably write a short note today to both Target and Nintendo because I didn't get the chance to speak my mind in the store (read my earlier post). What I don't think is so rational is non-collectors returning the game due to a dent or a blemish on the outside of the box, when a simple complaint will suffice. There's such a thing as doing something for the principle of the matter, but when have you crossed the reasonable boundaries of practicality for mere spite?

This was not a malicious incident on the parts of Nintendo or the retailers, not counting the asshole salesmen who will give you the worse copy first (but that's often because the management tells them to - having worked in retail, at Target no less, I can confirm that this is a common strategy and an order by management. YMMV, anyway.) If anyone is to blame, it would be the shipment companies charged with distributing these across the country... but even then, it was clearly accidental. Yes, this isn't an acceptable standard, but there really is no reason to punish the retailers by excessively returning copies that are functionally new.

Again, this is all very much IMO, so don't take this the wrong way - if you want to return your "damaged" copy for a new one, you have the right within the retailer's rules. That said, I believe the outer packaging of SS to be a rather insignificant part in the purchase of what is otherwise an excellent game and a great deal on a special edition Wii Remote, which doesn't warrant the complaints and all out rage that it's been getting. Call me crazy, but maybe the CAG mentality on this one is a little extreme.

I think I'm up to about 25 cents on my opinion, so I'll cut it off here. ;) Sorry to butt-in, but please accept this argument from a concerned CAG.
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#160 iwannadie

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:05 PM

Except the item in this case wasn't damaged. Not one bit. just the box. If you order a TV and the box has some dings, which they all have because most are shipped just like that without a separate box, is that grounds for returning it if the TV performs as advertised, which is what this guys actual game and controller did?

And it's SOOOOOOOO not the same thing as an opened game being sold as new. In one scenario they open a game, put it in a paper sleeve, leave the case out there for countless customers to handle and flip through the manual, then sell it to you as "new" for the same price as an unopened copy. In another, everything is new, sealed , and unopened, but the packaging is a little dinged up. Which happens to be the case with a lot of shit. I mean, if every customer returned perfectly working items because the packaging had some minor damage, retailers would be fucked and people having an appliance in their house would be a rarity.

My three cents( I like to give the reader their moneys worth)


The TV box comparison isn't a good one. People are not known to prop their TV box up on a shelf to display it also they do not have collectors edition TV's that I know of. TV boxes are also usually the shipping container, you could slap a label on a TV box and ship it, you do not do that with a video game box, you put it in another box for the very reason of protecting the inner box. If I bought a TV and the box was dinged up, I would refuse shipment or ask the store for another one because the outer damage may be a sign of damage to the TV. I wouldn't get to the point of asking for a return or compensation because I would not buy it in the first place. That is also the reason stores have "Dented box sales" because people do not want the TV when the box shows sign of damage even though the TV may be 100% fine inside.

Also, where would you draw the line for damaged boxes. Would you be ok with buying a new game and the bluray case being in pieces if the disc still works? Would it be ok if the bluray sleeve was in pieces but the disc still works? Would it be ok if the actual bluray's top surface was scratched up but the disc still works?

If you buy a new game, it should be new, period. The outer printed box should be pristine and there is no reason to say otherwise. If you are ok with the outer box being slightly damaged that is great but it is also a person opinion. Maybe you would be ok buying a bluray and having a shipping label slapped on it without any outer container I don't know.
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#161 nnthomas

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:09 PM

I bought this blu-ray and there's a smeared turd all over the box. Whatever though, the disc is all I need.

:lol:

Get real, people.
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#162 LagFighter

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:10 PM

I bought this blu-ray and there's a smeared turd all over the box. Whatever though, the disc is all I need.

:lol:

Get real, people.


Was about to close my tab until I saw this gem... :roll: That's a gross exaggeration, and you know it.

EDIT: And by gross, I mean both ridiculous and nasty.
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#163 iwannadie

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:10 PM

I believe it means that people who are anal, petty, and incredibly OCD hide behind the "collector" label. I uhhhh.... I thought that was pretty clear and straightforward :-k


I get sick of people claiming OCD because they like having all their boxes match(no red boxes) or that they like things in a certain order. That is by no means an OCD behavior. Now, if you need to open/close the box 25 times before putting it on the shelf or need to touch every box before you can remove one from the shelf, that would be an OCD type behavior.
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#164 sayu

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:18 PM

Except the item in this case wasn't damaged. Not one bit. just the box. If you order a TV and the box has some dings, which they all have because most are shipped just like that without a separate box, is that grounds for returning it if the TV performs as advertised, which is what this guys actual game and controller did?

And it's SOOOOOOOO not the same thing as an opened game being sold as new. In one scenario they open a game, put it in a paper sleeve, leave the case out there for countless customers to handle and flip through the manual, then sell it to you as "new" for the same price as an unopened copy. In another, everything is new, sealed , and unopened, but the packaging is a little dinged up. Which happens to be the case with a lot of shit. I mean, if every customer returned perfectly working items because the packaging had some minor damage, retailers would be fucked and people having an appliance in their house would be a rarity.

My three cents( I like to give the reader their moneys worth)


But where does the package end and the product begin? Would you be okay with the game case being torn to shreds? What if the game disc had a manufacturing error and the picture on the disc was of some Barbie game? Is that OK, since the actual bits of code on the disc is all that matters?

I agree that a LITTLE dinging or creasing isn't all that bad and should probably be expected, but the game case and the box should be regarded as equal. There's a reason Nintendo made both to look so appealing.

#165 goomba478

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:26 PM

I have a feeling Nintendo may end up re-releasing this bundle but at a later time without the CD. So I still think this at MSRP is a great deal personally considering what even a standard Wii Remote Plus goes for, let alone a gold-Zelda themed one.

#166 JP73

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:43 PM

But where does the package end and the product begin? Would you be okay with the game case being torn to shreds? What if the game disc had a manufacturing error and the picture on the disc was of some Barbie game? Is that OK, since the actual bits of code on the disc is all that matters?

I agree that a LITTLE dinging or creasing isn't all that bad and should probably be expected, but the game case and the box should be regarded as equal. There's a reason Nintendo made both to look so appealing.


Well, no. In a followup post I even said i would understand it if the actual case had any damage. This is why these examples of Blu Ray cases being damaged and apparently shit stained are not close to the same thing. Because they hold the actual disc(s). In the case of this box, it holds the controller and the case that holds the game. If that case is damaged, different story.

But whatever, I'm not gonna continue this. To each his own, I suppose
. I personally don't give a damn. In fact, my perfect Zelda box from Kmart on launch day is in the trash now. But it's your money, you want to be picky and hassle retailers, who am I to judge?

#167 sayu

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:56 PM

Well, no. In a followup post I even said i would understand it if the actual case had any damage. This is why these examples of Blu Ray cases being damaged and apparently shit stained are not close to the same thing. Because they hold the actual disc(s). In the case of this box, it holds the controller and the case that holds the game. If that case is damaged, different story.

But whatever, I'm not gonna continue this. To each his own, I suppose
. I personally don't give a damn. In fact, my perfect Zelda box from Kmart on launch day is in the trash now. But it's your money, you want to be picky and hassle retailers, who am I to judge?


If the disc isn't damaged, what does it matter? And you said yourself, this box holds not only the actual game disc but also the Wiimote. I haven't received mine yet, but I imagine the Wiimote isn't in its own separate box. The Wiimote is most definitely part of the product. I'm just not seeing your reasoning. You can't include one and exclude the other.

#168 JP73

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:17 PM

If the disc isn't damaged, what does it matter? And you said yourself, this box holds not only the actual game disc but also the Wiimote. I haven't received mine yet, but I imagine the Wiimote isn't in its own separate box. The Wiimote is most definitely part of the product. I'm just not seeing your reasoning. You can't include one and exclude the other.


If you can't see the difference between the case that holds the actual disc and the cheap, thin box that is only there for the purpose of fitting the remote,, then either you are being dense on purpose or just really stupid.

#169 oregon

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:21 PM

If these damaged boxes were on the shelf at a brick and mortor store they would probably be discounted, example Frys does this now and then. But i suspect 90% of the time if a B&M store recieved inventory that was damaged, like many of the examples here, they would simply send the stock back to supplier or manufacturer. Its not acceptable in a store and not acceptable from an internet retailer.

#170 CBas92

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:22 PM

If the disc isn't damaged, what does it matter? And you said yourself, this box holds not only the actual game disc but also the Wiimote. I haven't received mine yet, but I imagine the Wiimote isn't in its own separate box. The Wiimote is most definitely part of the product. I'm just not seeing your reasoning. You can't include one and exclude the other.


You keep the case that holds the game. You throw away the box that holds the whole bundle. It's not that difficult to comprehend. Unless you keep your Wii Remotes in the packages that they came in.

#171 sayu

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:34 PM

If you can't see the difference between the case that holds the actual disc and the cheap, thin box that is only there for the purpose of fitting the remote,, then either you are being dense on purpose or just really stupid.


Then it wouldn't matter if the artwork on the case was ripped because the case only serves to protect the disc. It isn't the product. And you refuse to define what you believe the product is. Is it the disc, or is it the code on the disc? By your reasoning the disc itself is also just a package, so it wouldn't matter if it had a picture of My Little Pony on it instead of Zelda.

#172 ChuckyDJ

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:37 PM

Adding to the fury....if you go to the grocery store to get a box of cereal thats regular price and the box is smashed on the top or sliced on the side by a boxcutter but the actual bag of cereal is still unharmed do you still buy it?

#173 JP73

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:37 PM

Then it wouldn't matter if the artwork on the case was ripped because the case only serves to protect the disc. It isn't the product. And you refuse to define what you believe the product is. Is it the disc, or is it the code on the disc? By your reasoning the disc itself is also just a package, so it wouldn't matter if it had a picture of My Little Pony on it instead of Zelda.




#174 sayu

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:43 PM

How insightful.

#175 Blaster man

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:48 PM

I get sick of people claiming OCD because they like having all their boxes match(no red boxes) or that they like things in a certain order. That is by no means an OCD behavior. Now, if you need to open/close the box 25 times before putting it on the shelf or need to touch every box before you can remove one from the shelf, that would be an OCD type behavior.


To be perfectly honest, what you describe with the boxes matching is OCD. Most mental illness is a spectrum from non existent to life shattering bad with most people falling in the are somewhere in the middle. For example, there is a hoarding show on tv (which is a type of OCD) and on that show they have extreme cases. On a scale of 1 to 10 these people are 10's but TONS of people are maybe 7's. It's there, it's bad, but it doesn't control their lives.

What you describe with the boxes is maybe a 2 or a 3. People that feel compelled to straighten the rugs for hours are a 10 on this same sort of spectrum and you can bet your bottom dollar they don't have red boxes mixed in with the blue ones

Lastly, your descriptions of that you describe of OCD (shutting door) are stereotypical examples of people with a 10. OCD isn't even considered a mental illness unless it impacts you or makes you feel miserable.

An example directly related to the previous posts, if a person opens a box, let's say one for a PS3, sets up the PS3 then places the empty box in a closet full of empty electronics boxes then that person has a form of OCD. The 'normal' thing is to throw away boxes. I know people that do this and their reasoning is that they may 'need' it down the road. That is a very typical reason hoarders keep stuff - as though you can't throw out the box and if you move 5 years from now, stick it in a new box. A guy I know has about five graphics card boxes to store them in when he upgrades. Why in the world would a person have empty boxes then use it to put an item into it that has depreciated to next to nothing?

#176 ROB64

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:00 PM

...I use empty boxes for shipping.
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#177 ShadowAssassin

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:04 PM

I picked mine up at Gamestop when it came out. My box was dinged, but only a little bit. I'm an OCDer myself, but I wouldn't describe mine as "crushed" or anything like that. One part of the box is dented in a little bit. It bothered me, but what can you do? These happen during shipping, and while Gamestop can really suck sometimes I don't think it was their fault on this specific occasion.

#178 Blaster man

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:05 PM

...I use empty boxes for shipping.


I doubt that would be considered hoarding unless you have a whole closet or room full of empty boxes (even that would not be OCD if you ship constantly). I doubt keeping a box for maybe 18 months to increase resell value of the item would be much of a problem either. What I'm describing is keeping any number of empty boxes for an undetermined amount of time because they 'might' be useful. If you actively use them to ship then that's different.

Edit: the guy I know kept a buch of graphics card boxes and when he upgrades he doesnt use the box to help resell it, he uses the box to store the card and puts it in his closet with all his other graphics cards that he used to use but will never put into a computer again. He doesn't keep e erything he buys, he just keeps all electronics boxes. Sure he has a closet or two full of empty boxes but it doesn't impact his life, his ability to have friends and family over, etc. on a scale of 1 to 10 it's probably a 3. I used to keep certain electronics boxes but had to force myself to throw them out because....seriously the closet space in my house can surely be better used than housing a stack of empty game console boxes.

#179 iwannadie

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:33 PM

To be perfectly honest, what you describe with the boxes matching is OCD. Most mental illness is a spectrum from non existent to life shattering bad with most people falling in the are somewhere in the middle. For example, there is a hoarding show on tv (which is a type of OCD) and on that show they have extreme cases. On a scale of 1 to 10 these people are 10's but TONS of people are maybe 7's. It's there, it's bad, but it doesn't control their lives.

What you describe with the boxes is maybe a 2 or a 3. People that feel compelled to straighten the rugs for hours are a 10 on this same sort of spectrum and you can bet your bottom dollar they don't have red boxes mixed in with the blue ones

Lastly, your descriptions of that you describe of OCD (shutting door) are stereotypical examples of people with a 10. OCD isn't even considered a mental illness unless it impacts you or makes you feel miserable.

An example directly related to the previous posts, if a person opens a box, let's say one for a PS3, sets up the PS3 then places the empty box in a closet full of empty electronics boxes then that person has a form of OCD. The 'normal' thing is to throw away boxes. I know people that do this and their reasoning is that they may 'need' it down the road. That is a very typical reason hoarders keep stuff - as though you can't throw out the box and if you move 5 years from now, stick it in a new box. A guy I know has about five graphics card boxes to store them in when he upgrades. Why in the world would a person have empty boxes then use it to put an item into it that has depreciated to next to nothing?


I am still going to disagree, the problem is we have to many "diseases" with wildly varying levels. Would you say I have OCD because I put all my socks in my sock drawer? No, the same you wouldn't say someone has OCD because they want their game cases to match. The problem is, people like being "special" and having something other people don't. People like the idea of having something like OCD because it makes them special or different from other people to allow them to stand out. The only reason for someone to say "I have OCD because I like all my ps3 games in clear cases." is a crying out for attention and they do not have the OCD disorder based on that, they may something else...

I think the term is just highly over used by people wanting attention or by people who just misunderstand what it is. A disorder is something outside of being normal, having ps3 games in matching clear cases is perfectly normal. Arranging games in a certain order be it alphabetical or chronology is again normal behavior. It is not a level 2 of a disorder or anything that would be seen as obsessive or compulsive.
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#180 Blaster man

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:44 PM

I am still going to disagree, the problem is we have to many "diseases" with wildly varying levels. Would you say I have OCD because I put all my socks in my sock drawer? No, the same you wouldn't say someone has OCD because they want their game cases to match. The problem is, people like being "special" and having something other people don't. People like the idea of having something like OCD because it makes them special or different from other people to allow them to stand out. The only reason for someone to say "I have OCD because I like all my ps3 games in clear cases." is a crying out for attention and they do not have the OCD disorder based on that, they may something else...

I think the term is just highly over used by people wanting attention or by people who just misunderstand what it is. A disorder is something outside of being normal, having ps3 games in matching clear cases is perfectly normal. Arranging games in a certain order be it alphabetical or chronology is again normal behavior. It is not a level 2 of a disorder or anything that would be seen as obsessive or compulsive.


You really think people want to have OCD? If so then they must not have any clue what it is. These folks that organize their shelves meticulously or adjust paintings so they are as even as humanly possible will be bothered by things being just a little off. This is indeed obsessive (being bothered by things not being "just right") and compulsive (organizing the shelf/adjusting paintings).

Many people have OCD to varying degrees (making it not really all that special actually). Some folks have ritual prayers they say (or just think) all the time. Many have to count or make things "even". You might not be able to recognize the behavior because they aren't a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 on such things. As such, they've had a lifetime (as maybe a 6 or 7 out of 10) to learn to hide these things and internalize them. Another thing to watch for is often people with OCD (obviously not all) will have "ticks". For instance, they'll make certain sounds or movements on a regular basis. It might not be completely obvious but if you pay attention you can probably see it.