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Like the USPS? Get ready to kiss it goodbye...


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#1 dohdough

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:34 AM

http://www.boston.co...mail/?page=full

All thanks to a little piece of legislation about 9 years ago that required the USPS to deposit $5,000,000,000 a year into a retirement fund that is of right now, will cover over 20 years of retirement benefits. Without the retirement contribution, the USPS would have actually been operating at a PROFIT for the entire time. Even if contributions were cut in half, there'd still be a profit.

So one might wonder, why was legislation put in place to indirectly destroy the USPS? Well that answer is simple: the USPS represents the last and largest remaining labor union. Once they're eliminated, collective bargaining is effectively dead in the US. Even the police unions won't be safe.

The funniest thing about this is that the USPS isn't actually allowed to make a profit...lolz.

#2 Sarang01

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:47 AM

Too bad as I like USPS over FedEx Ground any day of the week.

This is to kill competition against FedEx Ground and how shitty they are in my opinion.
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#3 dohdough

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:17 AM

Too bad as I like USPS over FedEx Ground any day of the week.

This is to kill competition against FedEx Ground and how shitty they are in my opinion.

All of the delivery companies are heavily dependant on one another as they use each others infrastructure and resources. While the goal of UPS and FedEx would be to take more of USPS's profitable routes, neither would be able to survive if USPS was completely eliminated and had to deliver to the booniest of the boonies like the Consitution mandates.

#4 YoshiFan1

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:51 AM

Hopefully EBay will adjust the estimated delivery date for when you sell a game, I already have to add a 3 day handling time whenever I sell a game since the estimated delivery date is usually not accurate if I put 1 or 2 days handling time, so I can see a lot of angry customers about slow delivery.

#5 dohdough

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:04 AM

Hopefully EBay will adjust the estimated delivery date for when you sell a game, I already have to add a 3 day handling time whenever I sell a game since the estimated delivery date is usually not accurate if I put 1 or 2 days handling time, so I can see a lot of angry customers about slow delivery.

Huh?

You're a little off topic, but 1-2 day delivery is something that only happens if you're relatively close to the receiver unless you do priority or express. First class and media mail will take at least a week to get across the country. It's not USPS that's being slow; it's you not selecting the appropriate shipping service to coincide with your shipping estimate on your sale.

#6 chiwii

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:45 AM

Why would this affect any other labor union?

#7 lawdood

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:17 AM

Why would this affect any other labor union?


Because it's the GOP goal to destroy them all by ending collective bargaining, just like they've done in Wisconsin and attempted to do in Michigan until voters repealed it.

Unions represent the biggest contributors to Democrat's campaigns, by destroying unions you destroy much of the money flowing into Democratic campaigns, while the GOP corporate masters like the Koch Bros. can continue to fill the coffers of their GOP puppets and spend as much they want to dupe Americans into voting against their own interests by electing Republican candidates.

The privatizing of America means huge corporate profits while the end of unions means the continued death spiral of what's left of the middle class in America and the continued rise of McDonald's and Walmart wage jobs.

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#8 nasum

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:06 PM

Are we really sure about that whole "Unions are the biggest (D) contributors thing"? That seems like one of those myths that are perceived as reality situations. What's really strange about that is that some of the most extreme ®'s that I know are union carpenters and such.

Back to the USPS, it needs to be refined for one thing. The service has gotten worse as the prices have gone up. This seems counterintuitive really. I think we can drop saturday mail and we can probably close a few of the branches that aren't so busy.
I don't see why anyone would have a beef with their $5b forced contribution, at least it guarantees solvency.
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#9 irideabike

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:09 PM

Unions themselves donate heavily to the democrat party nasum, but many of their members vote ®. At least that is the truth for many of the cops/firefighters I personally know. Teachers in Wisconsin are on their own field of crazy, so I tend to not bring up anything politically related to any of the teachers I know.
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#10 irideabike

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:28 PM

nasum, here's a random article about the spending:http://online.wsj.co...1761790288.html
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#11 dohdough

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:33 PM

Are we really sure about that whole "Unions are the biggest (D) contributors thing"? That seems like one of those myths that are perceived as reality situations. What's really strange about that is that some of the most extreme ®'s that I know are union carpenters and such.

When counted as a monolithic group, unions are the biggest contributors, BUT corporations, as a group, completely blow unions away by that metric. The problem here is the word-play and dishonest framing of the people that use that argument because they're not grouping corporations the way they group unions.

Back to the USPS, it needs to be refined for one thing. The service has gotten worse as the prices have gone up. This seems counterintuitive really. I think we can drop saturday mail and we can probably close a few of the branches that aren't so busy.
I don't see why anyone would have a beef with their $5b forced contribution, at least it guarantees solvency.

I don't philisophically disagree that they should contribute to a pension fund, but it shouldn't cripple them financially due to insolvency caused by the deposit. I mean that's as stupid as it gets when they're good for more than the next 20 years of retirement benefits.

Unions themselves donate heavily to the democrat party nasum, but many of their members vote ®. At least that is the truth for many of the cops/firefighters I personally know. Teachers in Wisconsin are on their own field of crazy, so I tend to not bring up anything politically related to any of the teachers I know.

Now you need to tell us why teachers in Wisconsin are crazy because we already cleared up that controversy.

#12 nasum

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:06 PM

to your first part there, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's one of those tricky facts that gets distorted into a myth by leaving out the rest of the story.
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#13 berzirk

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 05:46 PM

I hate the USPS, so there will be no tears lost if they are required to crash and begin anew. The pensions are what destroyed them, which of course is a recurring theme throughout the country.

If they are allowed to start over and be forced to operate like a business, then I would be willing to spend money with them. As it is now, I try to ship everything with UPS of FedEx.

#14 dmaul1114

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 05:56 PM

I use USPS semi regularly to ship out games via Goozex. Hard to beat the prices when using paypal shipping.

Anyway, seems the problem here is more pensions than unions--though of course the union is what got the pension put in place.

As I've said before, pensions just need to go away. A company (public or private) shouldn't be responsible for employees after retirement. They should just offer 401k type plans and make it up to the individual employees to plan well for retirment.

The problem with pensions--especially for a job like postal workers where many probably started right out of high school is you have people putting in their 30 years and retiring around age 50, and then the business is on the hook for them for another 20-50 years with increasing life expectancies. Just not a viable system. Just have a decent private retirement plan and force employees to work until they have enough saved to support themselves through retirement.

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#15 GBAstar

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 06:06 PM

Huh?

You're a little off topic, but 1-2 day delivery is something that only happens if you're relatively close to the receiver unless you do priority or express. First class and media mail will take at least a week to get across the country. It's not USPS that's being slow; it's you not selecting the appropriate shipping service to coincide with your shipping estimate on your sale.


You're wrong. The other poster was on the money. eBay considers first class to be "expedited shipping" with a delivery estimate of 2-3 days regardless of where you live in the country.

His point was that if he as the seller sold an item on Monday and had a handling time of "1 business day" as his default handling itme eBay would tell the buyer to expect their item on Wednesday or Thursday.

Because first class mail takes longer then 2-3 business days to most parts of the country, even if the seller had mailed the item out the same day it wouldn't get to the buyer by wednesday or thursday like eBay had informed them. This means angry buyers who in return leave negative feedback and low DSR scores.

The poster merely stated that he pads his handling time an extra day or two so that eBay will tell the buyers not to expect the item until later in the week. He also made a very valid point; hopefully eBay adjust its esimted arrival dates on packages sent via USPS proprotionally to account for longer transit times once sorting stations start to close and Saturday delivery becomes a thing of the past.

#16 dohdough

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:02 PM

I hate the USPS, so there will be no tears lost if they are required to crash and begin anew. The pensions are what destroyed them, which of course is a recurring theme throughout the country.

If they are allowed to start over and be forced to operate like a business, then I would be willing to spend money with them. As it is now, I try to ship everything with UPS of FedEx.

You don't seem to understand the problem...not the first or last time I bet. THEY ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR BENEFITS ON TOP OF THE LEGISLATED $5,000,000,000+ PENSION DEPOSITS. USPS used to be enrolled in the federal pension fund and had to make payments to them as well, which actually is what covers most USPS employees.

I don't give shit how you "feel" about them when USPS provides a necessary service to millions of people that literally depend on it to live. And if the moral obligation argument doesn't do it for you, and I know it probably won't, even from a business perspective, there is no way in hell that any private carrier can manage to do what USPS does without heavy government subsidies that would end up costing more than what USPS currently needs to operate on.

I use USPS semi regularly to ship out games via Goozex. Hard to beat the prices when using paypal shipping.

Anyway, seems the problem here is more pensions than unions--though of course the union is what got the pension put in place.

As I've said before, pensions just need to go away. A company (public or private) shouldn't be responsible for employees after retirement. They should just offer 401k type plans and make it up to the individual employees to plan well for retirment.

The problem with pensions--especially for a job like postal workers where many probably started right out of high school is you have people putting in their 30 years and retiring around age 50, and then the business is on the hook for them for another 20-50 years with increasing life expectancies. Just not a viable system. Just have a decent private retirement plan and force employees to work until they have enough saved to support themselves through retirement.

I think you should refresh yourself on the history of labor and it's relation to wages as well as the trend of wealth distribution in relation to production. I know you know it's not as simple as having people "take care" of their own retirement. Telling someone that's making $30k a year to plan to retirement isn't at all realistic and neither is telling them to go to college especially now, when college grads are facing the toughest job market in 20 years.

edit: And when it comes to USPS workers, it's not an easy job regardless of the benefits. Because of the necessity of these types of jobs, the least that society can do is ensure that there is some sort of security when they aren't able to work anymore.

You're wrong. The other poster was on the money. eBay considers first class to be "expedited shipping" with a delivery estimate of 2-3 days regardless of where you live in the country.

His point was that if he as the seller sold an item on Monday and had a handling time of "1 business day" as his default handling itme eBay would tell the buyer to expect their item on Wednesday or Thursday.

Because first class mail takes longer then 2-3 business days to most parts of the country, even if the seller had mailed the item out the same day it wouldn't get to the buyer by wednesday or thursday like eBay had informed them. This means angry buyers who in return leave negative feedback and low DSR scores.

The poster merely stated that he pads his handling time an extra day or two so that eBay will tell the buyers not to expect the item until later in the week. He also made a very valid point; hopefully eBay adjust its esimted arrival dates on packages sent via USPS proprotionally to account for longer transit times once sorting stations start to close and Saturday delivery becomes a thing of the past.

If he can't meet the estimated delivery date that ebay dictates, how is that any fault of ebay or USPS when there are clearly many options for shipping upgrades from first class? If he doesn't want to pony up for priority and eke out a couple extra bucks from the sale by going snail mail, I'm not going to be very sympathetic if he's that concerned about feedback.

#17 UncleBob

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:08 PM

[...]USPS provides a necessary service to millions of people that literally depend on it to live.



"Millions" depend on the USPS to live?

Aside from those who get mail-order prescriptions (and then, assuming they have absolutely no other options at all), who depends on the USPS to live?
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#18 GBAstar

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:08 PM

You don't seem to understand the problem...not the first or last time I bet. THEY ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR BENEFITS ON TOP OF THE LEGISLATED $5,000,000,000+ PENSION DEPOSITS. USPS used to be enrolled in the federal pension fund and had to make payments to them as well, which actually is what covers most USPS employees.

I don't give shit how you "feel" about them when USPS provides a necessary service to millions of people that literally depend on it to live. And if the moral obligation argument doesn't do it for you, and I know it probably won't, even from a business perspective, there is no way in hell that any private carrier can manage to do what USPS does without heavy government subsidies that would end up costing more than what USPS currently needs to operate on.


I think you should refresh yourself on the history of labor and it's relation to wages as well as the trend of wealth distribution in relation to production. I know you know it's not as simple as having people "take care" of their own retirement. Telling someone that's making $30k a year to plan to retirement isn't at all realistic and neither is telling them to go to college especially now, when college grads are facing the toughest job market in 20 years.


If he can't meet the estimated delivery date that ebay dictates, how is that any fault of ebay or USPS when there are clearly many options for shipping upgrades from first class? If he doesn't want to pony up for priority and eke out a couple extra bucks from the sale by going snail mail, I'm not going to be very sympathetic if he's that concerned about feedback.


I'm sorry I didn't mean "you're wrong" in the sense that you didn't make a valid point.. your point is very valid; but eBay provides an estimate arrival time for each package dependent on the shipping method you choose.

Examples (Domestic):

Express Mail = 1 day
Priority Mail = 2-3 days
First Class = 2-3 days
Parcel Post = 2-8 days
Media Mail = 2-8 days

All of those estimates (except Priority) do a HUGE disservice to the buyer. Their are many parts of the country where Express Mail is NOT a 1 day service. Also, in most instances Media Mail and Parcel Post can take in excess of two weeks.

You won't survive long selling on eBay with poor feedback and low DSR's. Buyers (and even many CAGs) have this sense of entitlement where items should arrive in two days like Amazon Prime. eBay makes this worse when they give estimated transit times that are unreasonable.

I'm just trying to make the point that if USPS shortens the work week and closes distribution centers those estimates (Provided by eBay) are going to have to be tweeked or things for sellers will only get worse

#19 GBAstar

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:12 PM

"Millions" depend on the USPS to live?

Aside from those who get mail-order prescriptions (and then, assuming they have absolutely no other options at all), who depends on the USPS to live?



I'm going to agree with dohdough on this. USPS is essential. Their are many areas of the country that USPS and FedEx won't deliver too. In fact both those carriers (UPS and FedEx) actually use USPS to finish the delivery in rural areas.

If any of you have or plan on mailing outside the country LMAO if you want to mail something UPS or Fedex. Plan on spending at least 5-10x to use their services.

USPS could do itself a big favor and stop delivering spam mail and charge higher fees for junk mail and bill delivery.

#20 UncleBob

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:19 PM

I'm going to agree with dohdough on this. USPS is essential. Their are many areas of the country that USPS and FedEx won't deliver too. In fact both those carriers (UPS and FedEx) actually use USPS to finish the delivery in rural areas.

If any of you have or plan on mailing outside the country LMAO if you want to mail something UPS or Fedex. Plan on spending at least 5-10x to use their services.

USPS could do itself a big favor and stop delivering spam mail and charge higher fees for junk mail and bill delivery.


I'm not advocating for the dissolution of the USPS by any means. I'm just questioning the idea that "millions" depend on the USPS "to live".

As for not delivering spam mail/junk mail... my guess is that's where the USPS makes a good chuck of their money any more. I'd love to see some numbers regarding percentages of mail by type...

Charging higher for bill delivery? Heh. I can see it now - companies would simply continue with what several have already done - Get your bill via e-mail - Free. Want a paper bill via mail? $2.
That would help the poor folks without internet access.
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#21 dmaul1114

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:20 PM

Telling someone that's making $30k a year to plan to retirement isn't at all realistic and neither is telling them to go to college especially now, when college grads are facing the toughest job market in 20 years.


Then you keep working as long as you are physically able. Retiring before being unable to work anymore isn't a right, it's a privilege for people who both made something of themselves and were smart with their money.

And once one becomes unable to work we have disability benefits, social security if they're of that age etc. Its society/the governments responsibility to deal with that kind of stuff, not employers IMO. Especially silly for something like the USPS as it's just wasting more tax payer money. If USPS employees didn't save enough to retire when they're unable to work any more, they already have the disability and social security safety nets there, why give them a pension on top of that?

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#22 dohdough

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:21 PM

"Millions" depend on the USPS to live?

Aside from those who get mail-order prescriptions (and then, assuming they have absolutely no other options at all), who depends on the USPS to live?

How many elderly people do you think live in the country and how good do you think the social safety net is considering the increasingly high cost of living expenses as you get older or have a sickness?

I'm sorry I didn't mean "you're wrong" in the sense that you didn't make a valid point.. your point is very valid; but eBay provides an estimate arrival time for each package dependent on the shipping method you choose.

Examples (Domestic):

Express Mail = 1 day
Priority Mail = 2-3 days
First Class = 2-3 days
Parcel Post = 2-8 days
Media Mail = 2-8 days

All of those estimates (except Priority) do a HUGE disservice to the buyer. Their are many parts of the country where Express Mail is NOT a 1 day service. Also, in most instances Media Mail and Parcel Post can take in excess of two weeks.

You won't survive long selling on eBay with poor feedback and low DSR's. Buyers (and even many CAGs) have this sense of entitlement where items should arrive in two days like Amazon Prime. eBay makes this worse when they give estimated transit times that are unreasonable.

I'm just trying to make the point that if USPS shortens the work week and closes distribution centers those estimates (Provided by eBay) are going to have to be tweeked or things for sellers will only get worse

My apologies as well. I can get worked up from time to time. More often than not...heh.

To speak for myself, whenever I sell something, I always go priority with dc and insurance. The extra piece of mind is worth the extra $3 out of my pocket and packages generally arrive in 2 days. $3 isn't worth fussing over when stuff like feedback counts.

#23 berzirk

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:26 PM

doh, can you just fast forward to the part where this is about racism? I barely cared enough to comment, and definitely don't care enough to keep discussing it.

#24 Msut77

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:29 PM

UPS and Fedex handoff unprofitable routes/packages to USPS.

#25 dohdough

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:30 PM

Then you keep working as long as you are physically able. Retiring before being unable to work anymore isn't a right, it's a privilege for people who both made something of themselves and were smart with their money.

Actually, there's an argument for worker churn that shows that we actually need people to retire so that younger workers can enter the market.

We've already had this argument before and even though you're big on agency, I know you know that there's a lot of dissonance when you use that argument. As an academic, I expect more from you.;)

And once one becomes unable to work we have disability benefits, social security if they're of that age etc. Its society/the governments responsibility to deal with that kind of stuff, not employers IMO. Especially silly for something like the USPS as it's just wasting more tax payer money. If USPS employees didn't save enough to retire when they're unable to work any more, they already have the disability and social security safety nets there, why give them a pension on top of that?

Social security barely keeps people out of poverty. Also, USPS is a self-funded operation.

#26 Clak

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:31 PM

doh, can you just fast forward to the part where this is about racism? I barely cared enough to comment, and definitely don't care enough to keep discussing it.

Well I would think something which is so ingrained in our society would be a part of just about any issue to some degree at least. Of course finding it sometimes requires digging a little deeper.
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#27 GBAstar

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:31 PM

I'm not advocating for the dissolution of the USPS by any means. I'm just questioning the idea that "millions" depend on the USPS "to live".

As for not delivering spam mail/junk mail... my guess is that's where the USPS makes a good chuck of their money any more. I'd love to see some numbers regarding percentages of mail by type...

Charging higher for bill delivery? Heh. I can see it now - companies would simply continue with what several have already done - Get your bill via e-mail - Free. Want a paper bill via mail? $2.
That would help the poor folks without internet access.



Why should they need more help? Most of them are already being handed free electricity, internet, computers, etc through social welfare programs. Also, almost all "check cashing" stores have a bill pay service as well.

#28 dmaul1114

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:34 PM

Actually, there's an argument for worker churn that shows that we actually need people to retire so that younger workers can enter the market.

We've already had this argument before and even though you're big on agency, I know you know that there's a lot of dissonance when you use that argument. As an academic, I expect more from you.;)


Not making any kind of academic argument here. Just a personal opinion that people aren't entitled to retirement. It's a privilege for people who make something of themselves and are smart with their money.

Now I don't want people to just rot. We need minimal social safety nets for people who fail at saving for retirement. And having them set to where they can live just above poverty is fine IMO. If you failed in life so be it. Society owes you nothing more than making sure you have health care, food, clothing and shelter IMO.

It's just stuff we'll never agree on as it's one area that I'm fairly conservative as I just fucking hate people in general and don't much care what happens to people outside of my small circle of family and friends, where as you're very liberal and altruistic on this social justice type of stuff. :D

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#29 dohdough

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:35 PM

Why should they need more help? Most of them are already being handed free electricity, internet, computers, etc through social welfare programs. Also, almost all "check cashing" stores have a bill pay service as well.

Oddly enough, those check cashing places probably charge more than $2 per transaction.

And as much as it pains me to say it, bob is actually correct with all of his points, even if the last one was sarcastic.

#30 irideabike

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:49 PM

This whole topic is just racist.
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