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CAGcast #267: We Hope They Serve Pancakes In Hell


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#151 Mason202

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:37 AM

http://gizmodo.com/5878209/why-apple-doesnt-make-the-iphone-in-america
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#152 actripxl

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 03:22 AM

I could not stop laughing when Cheapy asked to put 3 things in order according to how much he hates them, the choices were awesome!

On a serious note Wombat is talking about censorship, like it or not everyone has a right to say what they want. Unfortunately for us P.C. is so pervasive that people can't say anything if it might offend anyone, we aren't free if as a people we try to censor messages we don't like.

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Can't wait for the next Uncharted and Halo on my next-gen systems!


#153 Velo214

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 03:46 AM

yeah i hate that 3:16 self righteous crap. im totally w wombat here.
keep your easter bunny and santa shit to your own family and don't be clogging the air waves with bullshit. i hate xtians and i hate kids and i hate tv and football. that is just too much. and wow then cheapyd puts that at the end of the show after wombat says how insulting it is... way to go for free adtime and trying to piss your friend off? idk
peace all
oh and i love jesus, him and i toke bowls and trip the light fantastic every weekend. he's a chill dude

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#154 Cheese

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:23 PM

To be fair the verse was not meant to highlight any of the views you are criticizing FotF for, it actually highlighted that God loves EVERYONE, and ANYONE. It said it twice. You can argue all you want about their true motives but the commercial certainly did not have evil homophobic spreading intent.

As for the time and place BS, half of the commercials during football games are about stuff you don't care about. Just ignore the religion one just like you ignore the dodge caravan one.


God loves everyone, But not anyone. You're cool as long as you believe in Christ, if not, then it's into the pits for you. Like much of the bible, it's all about how you interpret it.

"Just ignore me telling you to burn in hell," is a helluva argument.
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#155 McBeesj

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 05:01 PM

Wombat it is not hateful to tell someone that if our belief systems is true that if you do not believe in Jesus then you are going to hell, it also has nothing to do with being a good person, we believe that even if billy graham or mother Theresa did not actually believe in Jesus then they would go to hell, there are probably tons of nice, loving, moral people in hell, because that is not what it is about. We believe no one can go to heaven without believing in Jesus.

I wonder how many people think John 3:16 is hate speech I would have never guessed that would be something people would get riled up about.

#156 itachiitachi

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:37 PM

I don't get Wombats hard on for manufacturing jobs, they only made up 13% of our economy before the recession and have been shrinking percentage of our GDP for a long time(this is true for most first world countries and even china).

Also the 23% higher manufacturing cost referred to by John Stewart was the cost to treat Chinese workers better not to bring the jobs over here where the worker salaries would have to be at-least 20 times higher, not to mention the cost of less efficient supply chains, safety and environmental regulations and dealing with things like unions and their demands to not have to work 35 hours straight, and get things like overtime pay and benefits..

If you want to the US to worry about something it should be protecting our and encouraging technology, you know the thing the Chinese our constantly hacking our companies to steal.

In 2009 the Ipod was responsible for 12,270 jobs in China with total wages of $23 million.(mostly manufacturing jobs and wages)

In the US it was responsible for 13,920 jobs with total wages of $745 million.(about 50% retail and 50% tech with the majority of the wages going to the tech side)

I know which end of that stick I want to be on.

http://pcic.merage.u...JobCreation.pdf






I challenge you to read "The Upcoming China Wars" or "Death By China"
then try to re-make that same argument.


I've ready plenty of those types of books, if China want's world domination they are not going to achieve it through manufacturing jobs.

Currency manipulation and death by Chinese products like dry-wall. I fear it is you who doesn't see all sides of the argument. Wait until you coat your house with lead-based paint or swallow boric acid thinking it's Ativan. You really need to ask yourself are you willing to die for a few dollars?

1. That doesn't have anything to do with jobs
2. Most companies will endanger people to make money, remember Toyota,BP, tobacco, ect....

I know that may sound harsh, but what do you think freedom of trade really means? China is supplying about 98% of our goods.

China makes up 15-20% of our imports up from under 5% in 1992 While the rest of the pacificrim has drop from 30% of our imports to 20%.

Like I said, read the books that have been thoroughly researched and make that same argument again.

lot's of arguments our "thoroughly researched" that doesn't mean they don't leave out inconvenient data. And judgeing from some of your facts it sounds like they probably where not thoroughly researched.

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

 

This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

 

#157 PigheadedBobobo

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:01 PM

why doesn't cheapy just play his PC games on a monitor like a normal fucking human being?

#158 eataburger

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:54 AM

why doesn't cheapy just play his PC games on a monitor like a normal fucking human being?


Cause he's a techno-pimp.

#159 terpkristin

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:06 AM

Honestly though, Wombat is a part of this show, and has the right to express his thoughts. People getting mad for him doing so should follow the advice they give to Wombat and just go ahead and stop listening to the Cagcast.


Agreed.

I love this show. It's a different dynamic when one of the hosts can't show up (as happens from time to time). As a Catholic, I didn't take Wombat's comments personally. I've always thought it was weird to have those kinds of ads on TV. And to have religion in sports. Wombat didn't like the ad. That's his prerogative. All that said, CAGCast would be weaker if Wombat wasn't a part of it.

Great work to all three of you. The CAGCast is always a bright spot in my week. :)
/tk
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#160 terpkristin

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:08 AM

why doesn't cheapy just play his PC games on a monitor like a normal fucking human being?


Can't speak for Cheapy, but I find it uncomfortable and somewhat distracting to sit at a normal computer/at a desk when I'm at home. I do that all day at work, when I get home, I want to lounge about on my couch or in my Ikea chair.

Granted, I do have ambitions of getting a Dell gaming laptop at some point. Not just because I don't like normal desks but because I travel a lot and would probably be better served by a laptop...

/tk
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#161 serenitygod

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 04:47 AM


I've ready plenty of those types of books, if China want's world domination they are not going to achieve it through manufacturing jobs.

1. That doesn't have anything to do with jobs
2. Most companies will endanger people to make money, remember Toyota,BP, tobacco, ect....

China makes up 15-20% of our imports up from under 5% in 1992 While the rest of the pacificrim has drop from 30% of our imports to 20%.


lot's of arguments our "thoroughly researched" that doesn't mean they don't leave out inconvenient data. And judgeing from some of your facts it sounds like they probably where not thoroughly researched.


Ok, I am not going to fight here, but all of the companies that you listed other than possibly Tobacco aren't "American" companies.

Next I don't believe for a second about 15% In fact, every year the govt puts together an international budget committee which I know puts Chinese products at least above 70%. The problem is this (if you only saw dateline and there exposition of Chinese truffles). Even if an entire product is made and shipped from China it can be re-sealed and then becomes say a product of France. How do you keep track of those kind of numbers?

Next American companies are subjected to something called standards. EPA
FDA NGO's etc they have a lot more jurisdiction at less cost than international products. Do you know what it would cost to check half of the products imported into this country?

I will say page 17 in Death By China supports the claim as "over 95%" and here http://articles.cnn....ty?_s=PM:LIVING this is a taste of things.



As far as the Upcoming China Wars, I admit it to being excessive. As far as manufacturing jobs that point makes no sense to me whatsoever. I don't even know what you are getting at there.
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#162 Nightskyre

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 01:26 PM

Wombat, if you're really so offended by being told to Go To Hell (which isn't what's happening but I digress, see below) where was the outrage DURING the SuperBowl where the Dante's Inferno commercial literally said "Go To Hell"?


In regards to the commercial specifically, other people have voiced their opinions re: the FoF commercial, and obviously you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're missing the entire point of the Christian mandate. God calls Christians in the New Testament to share the Good News, which is exactly what John 3:16 is. Further, the NT says Christians don't save people from their sins, God does, which means it is our job as Christians to share that news and God will act on that if He so desires. It's not about an exclusivity club and "Nah Nah's", but more of a "Dude, this club is incredible. You should know about it."

#163 usickenme

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 05:40 PM

sorry about that post It was irrelevant and dumb. I had a point but didn't come out correctly.

#164 Wombat

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:21 PM

sorry about that post It was irrelevant and dumb. I had a point but didn't come out correctly.


Not a problem, thank you.

#165 itachiitachi

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:48 PM

Ok, I am not going to fight here, but all of the companies that you listed other than possibly Tobacco aren't "American" companies.

The point is companies everywhere screw over coustomers for money, if you want American example look at credit card, and finical companies.

Next I don't believe for a second about 15% In fact, every year the govt puts together an international budget committee which I know puts Chinese products at least above 70%.

If you look at the CIA factbook US imports where 1.9 trillion in 2010, about 360 billion was from china or about 17%.


The problem is this (if you only saw dateline and there exposition of Chinese truffles). Even if an entire product is made and shipped from China it can be re-sealed and then becomes say a product of France. How do you keep track of those kind of numbers?

I doubt that happens enough to make up for 1.1 trillion more that China would need to be 95% of our imports.

Next American companies are subjected to something called standards. EPA
FDA NGO's etc they have a lot more jurisdiction at less cost than international products. Do you know what it would cost to check half of the products imported into this country?

Probably the same as it would cost to check half the stuff made here. While China may be lacks on regulations they have an incentive to keep their products clean, if you keep poisoning people it will cut into sales no matter how cheap the product. And companies that manufacture in China or use parts or ingredients from China have the same insensitive to make sure that they don't hurt consumers as they do for thing from the US.



I will say page 17 in Death By China supports the claim as "over 95%" and here

Can you give me the quote from the book. I suspect it is something like 95% of products have a part or ingredient from China.


http://articles.cnn....ty?_s=PM:LIVING this is a taste of things.

That seems to only be a problem with food, as any food imported to the U.S. would still be counted in the imports, and even if some food is shipped from China to somewhere else then imported to the U.S. China's exports to the rest of the world is low that even if all of it came to the U.S. our total imports from them would still be under 35%.




As far as the Upcoming China Wars, I admit it to being excessive. As far as manufacturing jobs that point makes no sense to me whatsoever. I don't even know what you are getting at there.

Maybe I misunderstood your point, it seemed like you where against Chinese manufacturing.



To the people saying that the NFL Christian add was in no way offensive, what do you think the media/average viewers reaction would have been if it had been a Jewish add implying everyone else would go to hell or a Muslim add just wishing everyone well.

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

 

This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

 

#166 serenitygod

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:09 PM

Yeah well with food things like truffles they are entirely chinese! They are only shipped into that country to be repackaged. What is worse s that Chinese truffles naturally compete with and take-over regular truffles. This means truffle farmers are going out of business when this invasive species crosses political boundaries. It is not just an ingredient even in certain clothing companies Ex; Levi they were being manufactured mostly in China but some of the last stitches were threaded in the US. Does that make them American?

As far as the over 95% they are saying contains something from the production process. Most of the time this is not just raw ingredients. The number maybe IDK 10-20% lower if you discount the raw ingredients still extremely significant.

As far as inspections are concerned you are wrong there. We have organizations in place that monitor and can inspect factories. We don't have near the man-power or oversight to see imports. Your costs would include a budget committee, workers, etc.

I wish I had a source for it, but I saw a while ago when the customs agents said they actually inspect <1% of goods shipped to the US (I know it comes on MSNBC like almost every week). We are talking about a re-haul of government as we know it today. Did you not see the guy who charged the military $10,000 for a screw that cost him .50? As far as the other goes. You also are looking at things that are from major corporations. The same show about the customs agents showed Boric acid instead of the medication the guy was supposed to get. Who is going to shut them down when you are dead? Do you know how much it costs pharmacies to shut out counterfeits every year? I worked in one! Almost 20% by the time you check every medication, it has made production in China not nearly as desirable as here.

As far as big businesses go I think you are wrong there as well. Think about Enron. This was something where our system failed it is true ,but if they were located outside the US how much would you have heard about it? the corporate greed has been ingrained in our minds as infamy for a long time. 1 example and it is a big deal here? How many secret emails are in China that show trials of shitty products with untested side effects or plain neoplastic formation? I think that makes little sense. As far as the credit cards you may have a point there, but IDk anything about credit cards being responsible for poisoning or something like that?

In fact, at my own house I got candy manufactured in China and the second main ingredient was Titanium Dioxide. I don't think many M&M's have that even as an ingredient. Do you think it would not be a gigantic media event if it did?

I believe that is the final word in this discussion. I am not a xenophobe or a misanthrope. I am just weary of letting our economy and safety go to people who chose to send it to Shenzen. Like I said I don't want to argue so if you want the final word go ahead and reply I won't after this because it is the wrong place to do so. Send me a PM and we can create our own thread in off-topic forum.

BTW I looked up the CIA factbook for 2010 and it says 19.5% for China and it says about 5% from Germany. This means it is obviously unreliable.
There are some technical imports from Germany and sausages as well as some candy, but that makes no sense it is not logical and obviously bias.
Because east-Russia alone must account for more imports than Germany.

Edited by serenitygod, 24 January 2012 - 09:20 PM.

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#167 xtreme_Zr2

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:42 PM

This has to go down as the worst podcast ever. No more politics - please.

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#168 sinewav

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:03 AM

Dear Wombat,

I just saw the FoF commercial in question for this week's show and found it not so much offensive but rather just a bad commercial so I think your reaction in boycotting CBS is a bit harsh. As a catholic I can appreciate their intent but I think they executed poorly and their use of kids was more creepy than appealing. As others have expressed the reading is in no way a threat to non-Christians and I would have just switched the channel in your position. There are plenty of offensive commercials I find all over TV and if one truly offended me writing the station is far more effective than a one-man boycott. And in no way did your rant offend but I'm sure by now you realize why people don't discuss religion :)

Lastly I was shocked that you did not own a copy of Saints Row 3 when Cheapy asked. This is a big opportunity for Cheapy and to not have the game in time for the DLC's release is inconsiderate IMHO. The "You're a better friend than me" routine did not help, a sincere apology does wonders. Next time please just buy the game :)

Edited by sinewav, 25 January 2012 - 12:18 AM.


#169 itachiitachi

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:44 AM

Ex; Levi they were being manufactured mostly in China but some of the last stitches were threaded in the US. Does that make them American?

The importation of the almost completed jeans, it will still be in the data for imports.

As far as inspections are concerned you are wrong there. We have organizations in place that monitor and can inspect factories.
We don't have near the man-power or oversight to see imports. Your costs would include a budget committee, workers, etc.

And we had organizations in place to monitor BP's oil-rig and finical companies, just because we have the organization doesn't mean it is done effectively.


Did you not see the guy who charged the military $10,000 for a screw that cost him .50? As far as the other goes.

Isn't that a code for spending on secret projects.


You also are looking at things that are from major corporations. The same show about the customs agents showed Boric acid instead of the medication the guy was supposed to get. Who is going to shut them down when you are dead? Do you know how much it costs pharmacies to shut out counterfeits every year? I worked in one! Almost 20% by the time you check every medication, it has made production in China not nearly as desirable as here.

Counterfeiting is a separate problem, it sounds like even if the US did not directly trade with China it would still be a problem.

How many secret emails are in China that show trials of shitty products with untested side effects or plain neoplastic formation?

And how many secret e-mails are there in US companies about screwing over customers?


I think that makes little sense. As far as the credit cards you may have a point there, but IDk anything about credit cards being responsible for poisoning or something like that?

Food companies and car companies will choose to not enact recalls when the lawsuits from deaths and injuries are cheaper.


In fact, at my own house I got candy manufactured in China and the second main ingredient was Titanium Dioxide. I don't think many M&M's have that even as an ingredient. Do you think it would not be a gigantic media event if it did?

Probably not much, considering that Titanium Dioxide can be consumed at BK or Wendy's and is a common ingredient in toothpaste and I've seen no media coverage about either of those.


BTW I looked up the CIA factbook for 2010 and it says 19.5% for China and it says about 5% from Germany. This means it is obviously unreliable.

Yes the CIA's data is obviously unreliable :roll:.

I don't think anyone else is interested in discussing this on the CAG feedback thread(as we both seem to agree that apple manufacturing in China as little to no negative affect on the US, this discussion has nothing to do with the show), if you want to discuss this more lets talk about it on a new thread or by pm.

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

 

This is perhaps the most ironic thing I have ever seen on CAG.

 

#170 polly

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 01:01 AM

I think the FotF commercial could have made it a little more clear that Wombat is going to hell.

;)
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#171 serenitygod

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 07:10 AM

Yeah I sent a major pm in reply and you can respond to them in the nascent thread I pm'd in.
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#172 AshesofWake

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 04:24 PM

again, I just want to say how in love I am with CheapyD saying Boondock Saints was a crappy movie. <3

#173 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 06:46 PM

The only solution to the manufacturing jobs is trade policy. You cant count on corporations to do things for a country's best interest. Nor can you count on people. Voting with your wallet/feet simply does not happen enough to matter. From the founding of the country till the 80's and 90's, we protected our domestic trade. Any advantage you could get from producing overseas would be voided at the border. You cannot access the robust American consumer base without either paying the cost of entry or producing in the US, period.

This is the only way. Taxes could be zero and jobs would not come back to any appreciable degree. Taxes could be zero and wages could be $2 an hour and they still would not come back. If you did both those and also ended all environmental regulations, then we would stand a chance without altering trade policy. However, racing to become the most impoverished 3rd world country is not what most people want to do, but that has been the road we've been on for 30 years under the free trade paradigm.

But we cant afford a trade war, people say. We've already been in and one, and we're losing. The rest of the world fiercely protects its domestic industry, and has merely been fleecing the US all this time.

#174 Cpt. Business

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:33 AM

There were two points I just couldn't avoid making. I love the show, by the way.

1. It is factually incorrect to say that the United States doesn't make anything anymore. We make all sorts of shit here, from scientific instruments to cars to whatever. It just takes fewer people to make those things. There is a great article in the Atlantic about it.

http://www.theatlant...n-america/8844/

2. In the article, they interview a CEO of an auto parts manufacturer, who tells a story about how he had a conversation with the governor of a state about his decision to close a plant there to farm the jobs to china. The governor offered to change tax policy, or offer them a tax holiday to save the jobs. The CEO says that there is absolutely nothing that can be done to save the jobs.

There is another great article about that from the new york times

http://seattletimes....72_apple22.html

In it they describe a scene where Steve Jobs decides that Iphones need a glass screen. He calls a factory in china, and to quote

"A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company's dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing more than 10,000 iPhones a day."

That shit just isn't going to happen in America. Later in the article they talk about how the people who pulled the 12 hour shift earned like 20 bucks for it. So, we probably don't even want jobs like that in America.

None of these facts make it suck less for the people who lost their jobs, but we are not going to get those jobs back.

#175 serenitygod

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:48 AM

apparently there is some interest in the topic after all.

First I would like to say water doesn't need to be purified. That is wrong. Who would say such a thing. If I go into my grocery store and buy water most of it is not purified.

Next the deal about the other is that the air force would never willfully investigate itself and uncover a conspiracy. Why would it voluntarily just give it up?

As far as the other goes the candy I threw away the bag. Considering almost everything I have claimed I have proven with easy links or sources down to the page however it is really bad for you to call me out without really any sources.
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#176 serenitygod

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:09 AM

No more replies? I am not going to say I won, but I wanted to continue
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#177 ChicoChanqlueta

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:15 PM

People probably won't agree but I enjoyed the politics and religion topics discussed on this CAGcast. Keep up the great work and being able to make even the most mundane topics interesting.
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