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CAGcast #270: Man Down


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#61 Curufinwe

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:10 PM

If you want to show support for a company, you buy their games. Nobody bought Psychonauts, which means not many people support Double Fine.


Enough people have bought recent Double Fine games like Trenched to keep them in business, and enough people wanted a new adventure game from Double Fine that they raised a million dollars in a day on kickstarter. Those are the facts, regardless of your bizarre obsession with a platform game they released seven years ago.

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#62 turkeycat79

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:18 PM

Signed up for audible through your link.... i mean, how can anyone resist the way you guys advertise it!!!!
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#63 Kosh

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:37 PM

Wombat running his mouth about something he knows nothing about? Must be a new episode of the Cagcast.

#64 Xevious

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:28 PM

Generally I enjoy listening to the show. But that rant that Wombat had against Kickstarter was a whole lotta nothing.

We should do a kickstarter program to buy a sock for his mouth.

Damn you xevious...

Damn you Xevious... damn you to hell.....

Damn you Xevious be quiet.

So you know EBM? Damn you Xevious...




#65 RedvsBlue

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:06 PM

Even though I tend to somewhat agree with his point about having the development already paid for gives them little incentive to work hard on the game, Wombat does have a tendency to rant and whine about things far too much.

I will say one thing though, if after releasing 3 games in the past year they don't have $400,000 in equity as a company, it begs the question of their longterm viability as a studio...

#66 Calinks

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:43 PM

I would love, LOVE if Sega came to the fans and spent a year or so collecting funds to make a game like Shenmue 3. I think if they did that for 12-18 months they would have enough backing to kick it off. I'd gladly put in $30. I wish more devs or fans would go to companies and help them make the obscure games a small segment of fans really want. Would love another AKI wrestling game,

#67 Curufinwe

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:59 PM

Independent developers like this guy have got more funding thanks to all the extra publicity kickstarter has received.

http://www.kickstart...ixel-sand/posts

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#68 donkeydrop

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:33 AM

Double Fine should be congratulated. After the whole Brutal Legend fiasco, with Activision pulling the funding, the lawsuit and then eventual release by EA to mediocre sales, I'm sure they were in financial trouble. Most developers would have been laying off staff; instead they took an aggressive strategy, split into four separate teams and manage to quickly push out some good quality downloadable games. Still, four downloadable games selling for a total less than one full release doesn't mean they are rolling in cash, so I really don't understand Wombat's attitude.

Most of the game industry works by publishers providing money up front so the developers can pay their staff during the development phase, but then the publisher takes the bulk of the sales revenue. Developers very rarely get to keep enough profit to be able to fund their own future projects. By using Kickstarter Double Fine now have a chance to fund the type of game that no big publisher would touch with a 10 foot pole, and to guarantee employees that they will still have a job when the game is done. And of course they still have motivation; if they give their Kickstarter supporters what they want - involvement in the development process, and a good game - they will have the potential to continue on with this model for years to come.

#69 Velo214

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 02:34 AM

David Jaffe and Kickstarter
http://kotaku.com/58...new-project-too
LOL
also my grrl loves to reward my gameplay performance with sexual favors. I get hj/bjs all the time for doing well in MW3, but she would just laugh and kick sand in my face if I 'let her win' a game. He just said that for some free PR. der

oh and EA/DoubleFine, EA is a bunch of douches for not releasing the Brutal Legend patch to fix the corrupt save data after 75% stat completion. I was working on the plat this weekend and couldnt get it and looked online and he has the patch ready to go but EA won't release it. assholes.

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#70 casamh

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:10 AM

Coaching girls basketball, sniffing pissy underwear, contracting a stomach virus, and slowly increasing the curse per minute count. Sounds like the plot for Hangover 3.

#71 HansKaosu

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:20 AM

More bad jokes from Wombat.. Seriously.. stop it >_>

Decent show.

Edited by viiral, 12 February 2012 - 12:12 PM.


#72 S0LIDARITY

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:43 PM

really, I am not even fairly attractive?

I asked my girlfriend to rate attractiveness for me. The best picture I could find for you was
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she said you looked like a 'nerdy dad.' Upon further review, she came up with 'somewhat attractive.'

Edited by S0LIDARITY, 12 February 2012 - 05:46 PM.
broken picture link


#73 usickenme

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:54 PM

The extreme metaphor would be a person who makes a decent living, but periodically dresses up in ratty clothes and goes down to the soup kitchen for a free meal. Leave the free meal to those who need it.




No, that would be extremely flawed metaphor.


It's a flawed metaphor (analogy) because the dude getting a free meal isn't giving anything back. Double Fine is providing a game. That is the difference.

and who is to say Double Fine doesn't have $$ in the bank? That doesn't mean they have to be opposed to alternative development sources. Wombat wasn't playing "devil's advocate", he was playing dumb.

I personally didn't know anything about kickstarter and now I do. That's a win for everyone.

#74 Ultramontane

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 02:00 AM

I asked my girlfriend to rate attractiveness for me. The best picture I could find for you was
Posted Image
she said you looked like a 'nerdy dad.' Upon further review, she came up with 'somewhat attractive.'


screw the kickstarter controversy, where did Solidarity find this 'nerdy dad' picture? And 'somewhat attractive'? That sounds horrible.

Post that picture on hotornot.com. In fact, get Ship and Cheapy up there. I want real numbers.

Don't make decisions when you're angry and don't make promises when you're happy.


#75 Wingwright

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 02:05 AM

Why don't you make a Kickstarter to fund a proper CAGForeplay Finale?

#76 Archaic

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:38 AM

Yes, Wombat went on at pretty extraordinary length on this show about a topic I'm not even sure he cared about. But this was just a proportionally larger rendition of what he does on most of the episodes; he talks up topics to create interest. In this case, it was a rare misfire.

If he didn't do this, the show would lack momentum. Cheapy, though I like him, works best as a smartass, rhetorical foil, because he basically just dismisses any aspect of gaming/industry news that doesn't jive 100% with his interests...And Shipwreck works best as a dry reporter with the occasional, unexpected interjections of humor.

Every show would be a pretty dull 20 minutes if the 3 weren't on simultaneously. They're great together when they're in synch, but --given that this isn't their day job-- they're not all gonna be cohesive on every single episode. I'm just glad we get what we do from this bunch; it's my favorite podcast, without question.

#77 Kazaganthi

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:51 AM

Shipwreck should speak up more often. It sounded like he had something to say about kickstarter, but he keeps getting interrupted and gives up.

Love listening to the CAGcast. Keep up the gaming related debates; interesting to hear even if it is to get us to post feedback.

Cheapy should watch the TV Show "Chuck". Yvonne was in Mass Effect first (ME2 Miranda), and damned if she isn't in her underwear every other episode. Chobot Robot is old news. Wasn't she a failed G4 host like Olivia Munn and Candace Bailey?


#78 mrx001

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:58 AM

All internet celebrities are D list celebrities.

#79 joyce_181502

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:15 PM

Wombat's comments on the whole kickstarter thing are bizarre.

For someone who attends industry events, you'd think he'd actually understand more about how the industry works:

-Publishers are the ones who fund the majority of the games and tend to only fund games that they believe will sell / are low risk
-Small studios are small meaning they can usually only work on one game at a time
-The industry is reputation based such that you're really only as good as your last game

So Double Fine asking for money so they can make another game in parallel; a classic adventure game that a publisher would never fund, and actually use the money to make a good game instead of just take it and run shouldn't be seen as greed / a "surprise".

#80 triforcer

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

I usually like Wombat playing devil's advocate, but Costume Quest and Stacking didn't cost $400k to make. The budget for each were around $2 million according to Tim Schafer and he's made it clear that no publisher would fund a point and click adventure game. That and they rather not have to pander to the wishes of a publisher to make the game more mainstream friendly. The point of the Kickstarter was to make a point and click adventure game and they only wanted to make it if people wanted it.
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#81 MSUHitman

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:59 AM

Wombat you're not alone on the Double Fine/Kickstarter issue: Colin Moriarity from the IGN Playstation team shares your opinion on it and also is as strongly opinionated on it as you are.

Edited by MSUHitman, 14 February 2012 - 04:45 AM.

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#82 HansKaosu

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:21 AM

I usually like Wombat playing devil's advocate, but Costume Quest and Stacking didn't cost $400k to make. The budget for each were around $2 million according to Tim Schafer and he's made it clear that no publisher would fund a point and click adventure game. That and they rather not have to pander to the wishes of a publisher to make the game more mainstream friendly. The point of the Kickstarter was to make a point and click adventure game and they only wanted to make it if people wanted it.


This +1 .. :whee:

#83 Drclaw411

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:33 AM

Heard you guys mention my NBA Elite 11 blog in the cagcast. Just to clarify: yes, I paid $1000 for it. Also added that to the blog since many people asked. Only reason I left it off to begin with was to avoid flames. I'm happy with the buy but it is the internet, after all, and flames tend to happen there.

Also: from the research I did when I was gathering info on the game, there are about 15 known copies out there right now.
WTB: Outback Joey ($900 bounty for cart only!)

#84 trip1eX

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:58 AM

Cheapie says he wants to give money to support his favorite game by purchasing lame DLC, but I think all he is supporting is more lame DLC.

#85 Zacmanman

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:45 AM

He raised some good points. Wombat I mean.

I think Double Fine and maybe Valve would be the only companies that could pull this off. Could you imagine Activision doing this for MW4?


Valve? Really, Valve? They have more money than God. The only reason they have EA publish their games is to distribute them physically. Other than that, they're almost totally independent.
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#86 Dee_Lucky

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:58 PM

Wombat when you announce you've got a great Tim Schafer story, and you can't share it, that's called bad radio.

Also the weight loss competition should be incorporated with kinect. I know both of you rarely use the device, this could be a good opportunity to use it. I personally recommend the Biggest Loser game. I can even imagine Microsoft taking notice to something like this. Regarding the rules for this bit, it should be simple. My only problem is that i don't trust Wombat or Cheapy to give an honest weigh in. So I'm going to need the both of you to take a picture with your feet on the scale. In the picture i need your weight, a current newspaper and a dime for scale.

#87 Dee_Lucky

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:57 PM

Wombat when you announce you've got a great Tim Schafer story, and you can't share it, that's called bad radio.

Also the weight loss competition should be incorporated with kinect. I know both of you rarely use the device, this could be a good opportunity to use it. I personally recommend the Biggest Loser game. I can even imagine Microsoft taking notice to something like this. Regarding the rules for this bit, it should be simple. My only problem is that i don't trust Wombat or Cheapy to give an honest weigh in. So I'm going to need the both of you to take a picture with your feet on the scale. In the picture i need your weight, a current newspaper and dime for scale.

#88 Backlash

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:24 PM

Hopefully y'all are still reading the show comments thread even though it's been almost a week, because I'd like to remark on something other than Wombat and the Kickstarted thing:

Cheapy D's bizarre inability to understand why some people like sequels to games he doesn't like. He has consistently remarked that the Vita's lineup isn't good because it's just "more of the same" for games that came out on consoles. But let's look at some of his favorite games from 2011: Forza 4 (4th in the series), Skyrim (5th in the series), Saint's Row the Third (3rd in the series). All "more of the same!"

I'm not getting a Vita, and I personally don't want more Wipeout, Hot Shots Golf, etc, etc, but I certainly understand why some people do. Handhelds vs consoles vs simple phone games is a whole other subject which I'll leave alone for now.

#89 Kazaganthi

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:41 AM

Hopefully y'all are still reading the show comments thread even though it's been almost a week, because I'd like to remark on something other than Wombat and the Kickstarted thing:

Cheapy D's bizarre inability to understand why some people like sequels to games he doesn't like. He has consistently remarked that the Vita's lineup isn't good because it's just "more of the same" for games that came out on consoles. But let's look at some of his favorite games from 2011: Forza 4 (4th in the series), Skyrim (5th in the series), Saint's Row the Third (3rd in the series). All "more of the same!"

I'm not getting a Vita, and I personally don't want more Wipeout, Hot Shots Golf, etc, etc, but I certainly understand why some people do. Handhelds vs consoles vs simple phone games is a whole other subject which I'll leave alone for now.


Wow, I agree. I hate Modern Warfare and Call of Duty shit, but I don't ask "Why is there a sequel to that dumb game?". I take that back, I do. Four hour campaign and slight updates doesn't sound like a new game.

One bad google search brought up: FFXIII sold 450,000 copies day one and 5,750,000 copies overall. And that's for what some deem as a "Failure to the series". Sure it's not the 9mil of MW3, but it's a different target audience. Just like the Wii has its (huge) audience.

Iphone sucks, bad Wombat!


#90 danchilders

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:32 PM

There are three problems with Wombats anti-Double Fine rant:

1) Mid level developers are struggling to survive in general. If they can't get publisher backing then their game generally has little chance nowadays because they get buried in the marketing and press attention AAA budget titles get. This has little to do with the quality of the game or even public interest. It is about mindshare. Those with the money can buy the mindshare. This kickstart move was a means for Doublefine to get some mindshare for their product despite the fact that they lack a publisher or the deep pockets necessary to provide a huge marketing blitz.

2) There are many many people whose motivation to do well has jack shit to do with money. Maybe Wombat finds this hard to believe, but people who follow their passion as career are not really motivated to do their best by money. If this were the case, they all would have become lawyers or doctors rather than musicians, artists, or teachers. They usually value the freedom to follow they passion more than they value money. As a college instructor, I can tell you flat out if you offered one job where I made half the salary but was allowed to structure my own courses and another where I made double but had to follow a set course structure, I would not only take the first option in a heartbeat, I would work a lot harder because I am passionate about my teaching. What is going to drive Schafer and crew is their newly found freedom to make the game they want to make. If you fear a developer half assing a game you should have far more fears about all the greenlit sequels teams are forced to continually make.

3) Regardless of the situition, it is pretty shitty to automatically condemn someone you don't know as a "douche." It is even more shitty to call them this in public without explaining. Maybe you are so naive that when someone tells you something, you assume they aren't trying to put themselves in a positive light, that there is no telephone game exaggeration effect happening, and that what you are being told is representative of the person being talked about. If so, grow up. Most of us learned how stupid, self serving, and false gossip is when we were in middle school. The only people who deserve to be subjected to immature gossip is the type of person who spreads it. So I hope someone out there knows the shittiest thing Wombat ever did and that they then exaggerate it and spread it to thousands of people. He deserves it. I heard he was a douche.

Edited by danchilders, 19 February 2012 - 05:48 PM.