Want to install an SSD

boneless

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I'm looking into using an SSD for a boot drive. I was wondering what's a good size for windows 7 pro 64bit, 64GB or 128GB? I plan to install all other software on another HD such as games, itunes, or MS office.

I've built computers before, but is it just a matter of plugging in the SATA and power cable into an SSD like a regular drive?
 
I recently installed a 128gb OCZ Agility 3 into my pc and yes, it is quite easy. For the most part it is just plug and play, but to get the maximum speeds out of it there are a few bios tweaks that usually need to be done (varies from motherboard to motherboard).

As far as size goes, I couldn't see any reason not to go with a 128gb considering the price for those seem to be around $1 per gb... plus with that size, it affords you a little space to install a few frequently used games and apps (because it really speeds up the load times with them too).
 
I got an Intel 120GB one, and have only used ~30GB of it. I've got win7 pro 64-bit, Starcraft 2, and Office on there. A few other random programs, but nothing huge. I'd say 64GB is probably sufficient if you just want your OS on there.

Yes, it's just like any other SATA drive. Same SATA and power cable. One thing to note is that they're all in the 2.5" form factor. You'll need some sort of bracket to mount it in your PC tower. Not sure if every SSD comes with one or not.
 
I've likely got the same Intel 120 GB in the post above me. I have it in my main notebook. It is great. I'd say 120GB is more of a sweet spot than the 64 GB would be. I have 45.5 GB free on mine. Which means I'd have to be more careful if I had the smaller drive.

On my main gaming rig I haven't went SSD because it isn't as easy to justify. Sure I get the performance upgrade, but with a notebook you get increased battery life too. Until prices get to .50 a gig I won't be going with it on my desktop. I would want at least 200 GBs for a desktop.
 
double check your motherboard. Some older motherboards have compatibility issues with different brands of SSD. I found that out the hard way when my older ASUS board works fine with OCZ/Corsair but won't take a Kingston.
 
Is there a way of installing the SSD as a the W7 boot drive without erasing what you already have on your hdd? (Without messing everything up of course).
 
you might be able to do an image shrink and clone, but I don't think you would save much time versus just reinstalling on the SSD.
 
i got a fast 64gig on sell just for win 7(thats it program files on the c and g drive!) and really wish i either got 2 for a raid 0 or a bigger one

problem is windows makes a shit tone of temp files and even disk clean up wont clear it

for example if i wanted to use windows movie maker and use the youtube upload option. it'll store a temp file in windows and never delete it!

same thing with sound record, temp files spammed everywhere :(
 
[quote name='Mugatu']I have a 128GB and it works great for me - I also put most programs and data on different drives.[/QUOTE]

I'm assuming you're using a regular 7200rpm drive for the programs and data. I have 5400rpm drives just for storing video but I'm guessing it's too slow for installed programs only.
 
I want to revive this topic as my current hd is starting to give me problems so I'm going to have to upgrade. How well are programs running if installed to another hard drive? I'm thinking of a 128 or 256GB SSD for OS and installing my steam games and others to another 7200rpm drive. I've done it before but hate having to change the path everytime for install or if there's a patch, sometimes I have to redirect it since it won't auto-install. Does the combo of an SSD and traditional hd work well? Or should I just go with another WD black 1TB?
 
[quote name='boneless']I want to revive this topic as my current hd is starting to give me problems so I'm going to have to upgrade. How well are programs running if installed to another hard drive? I'm thinking of a 128 or 256GB SSD for OS and installing my steam games and others to another 7200rpm drive. I've done it before but hate having to change the path everytime for install or if there's a patch, sometimes I have to redirect it since it won't auto-install. Does the combo of an SSD and traditional hd work well? Or should I just go with another WD black 1TB?[/QUOTE]

I have 5 different hard drives on my desktop. My OS is on a 64GB SSD. My original goal was to house different types of files on different hard drives, but I got lazy and a lot of my stuff is scattered around.

Changing the paths when you install any file is pretty easy. I am not sure why you would be bothered with this.

My one recommendation is to get a 128GB Hard Drive. 64GB is fine for the OS and whatever files you download, but you don't have much room for storage or to install games on.
 
Don't get 64gb. It is way too small after Window 7 OS and standard installation applications.
Also, never defrag your SSD. Just a quick FYI.
 
[quote name='Naplex']Don't get 64gb. It is way too small after Window 7 OS and standard installation applications.
Also, never defrag your SSD. Just a quick FYI.[/QUOTE]

Stuff like this is why I'm still shying away from SSD. I keep thinking of them as just like HDDs, just faster, but it seems like there are all these rules and whatnot you have to follow that always appear out of nowhere.
 
[quote name='Vinny']Stuff like this is why I'm still shying away from SSD. I keep thinking of them as just like HDDs, just faster, but it seems like there are all these rules and whatnot you have to follow that always appear out of nowhere.[/QUOTE]

It's very simple to maintain a SSD, actually more so than a regular HDD since you don't need to defragment. You'll have a harder time keeping up with your standard hard drive than a SSD. The only "rule" is to not defragment them. Also, 64gb is perfectly fine if you only plan on putting your OS on the SSD.
 
[quote name='Vinny']Stuff like this is why I'm still shying away from SSD. I keep thinking of them as just like HDDs, just faster, but it seems like there are all these rules and whatnot you have to follow that always appear out of nowhere.[/QUOTE]

Just requires a little configuration initially in Windows to make sure it doesn't so some things. Otherwise all you have to remember is to not manually defrag really.
 
[quote name='Gamehead']I have 5 different hard drives on my desktop. My OS is on a 64GB SSD. My original goal was to house different types of files on different hard drives, but I got lazy and a lot of my stuff is scattered around.

Changing the paths when you install any file is pretty easy. I am not sure why you would be bothered with this.
[/QUOTE]

I have 5 drives too and exactly like you, my files are scattered around. I used to change the paths during XP, but sometimes when updates for programs or games rolled out, I had to redirect to install. For some games it's a pain to remember which developer folder made which game, and sometimes EA had mutiple folders, so that was what I was referring to. I use gamesave manager now and take a leap of faith each time that it correctly backs up my gamesaves.:cry:

[quote name='Vinny']Stuff like this is why I'm still shying away from SSD. I keep thinking of them as just like HDDs, just faster, but it seems like there are all these rules and whatnot you have to follow that always appear out of nowhere.[/QUOTE]

I've read that NTFS and anything newer doesn't need defrag anymore. It was mostly FAT32 files system from win98 or earlier.

On a side note, I did purchase an OCZ 240GB with $20 rebate so $240 total and another WD black 1TB to replace my existing drive to install the programs to. Best of all, I get ME3 for free for buying the drive as a promo.\\:D/

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227727
 
[quote name='sunghost']It's very simple to maintain a SSD, actually more so than a regular HDD since you don't need to defragment. You'll have a harder time keeping up with your standard hard drive than a SSD. The only "rule" is to not defragment them. Also, 64gb is perfectly fine if you only plan on putting your OS on the SSD.[/QUOTE]

Oops, I probably should've refreshed my page.

[quote name='Draekon']Just requires a little configuration initially in Windows to make sure it doesn't so some things. Otherwise all you have to remember is to not manually defrag really.[/QUOTE]

What extra configs are you talking about? I'm using windows 7 pro 64bit
 
[quote name='boneless']What extra configs are you talking about? I'm using windows 7 pro 64bit[/QUOTE]

It's been a while since I installed my SSD, but a few of the non-overly technical things I performed were (There may be better guides out now):

http://www.lancelhoff.com/tweak-to-optimize-ssd-performance/
&
http://www.windows7hacker.com/index...delete-in-windows-7-free-up-hard-drive-space/


There are other things like moving your user folder to an entirely different drive, changing your default installation directory, etc too. That and the links above are entirely optional though. Not required, but it's a good thing to generally do.

Then once everything is good and you have your base programs installed, use Windows 7's built in image tool and create an image of the machine to revert back to if shit happens. I don't recommend installing games first and what not before this, but it's helpful after installing all your basic shit like Firefox/Chrome/Java/Adobe/Steam/whatever.
 
[quote name='Draekon']It's been a while since I installed my SSD, but a few of the non-overly technical things I performed were (There may be better guides out now):

http://www.lancelhoff.com/tweak-to-optimize-ssd-performance/
&
http://www.windows7hacker.com/index...delete-in-windows-7-free-up-hard-drive-space/


There are other things like moving your user folder to an entirely different drive, changing your default installation directory, etc too. That and the links above are entirely optional though. Not required, but it's a good thing to generally do.

Then once everything is good and you have your base programs installed, use Windows 7's built in image tool and create an image of the machine to revert back to if shit happens. I don't recommend installing games first and what not before this, but it's helpful after installing all your basic shit like Firefox/Chrome/Java/Adobe/Steam/whatever.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, all the SSD setup and "precaution" stuff like disabling prefetch and indexing etc. isn't really necessary. The idea behind it is that NAND memory in a SSD will wear out after you do so many writes to the drive. Prefetch, indexing, etc is supposed to cut down on unneeded writes.

Let's put things into perspective though. Here's the spec sheet for the Intel 320: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/ssd-320-specification.html (You can probably find similar specs for other drives). Under the reliability section, it says "The SSD will have a minimum of five years of useful life under typical client workloads with up to 20 GB of host writes per day."

5 YEARS if you write 20 GIGABYTES per day

How likely is that anybody will actually hit that?
 
[quote name='Vinny']Stuff like this is why I'm still shying away from SSD. I keep thinking of them as just like HDDs, just faster, but it seems like there are all these rules and whatnot you have to follow that always appear out of nowhere.[/QUOTE]

It isn't that bad. The reason for not defragging an SSD isn't because it would be harmful, although it would use up a tiny portion of its useful life. No, the real reason is that its an utter waste of time.

Fragmented files are a problem because of mechanical head travel in a convention platter drive. In the Win3.x days the penalty for a badly fragmented set of files could be quite noticeable.

An SSD has no mechanical elements and can read any sector as fast as any other. Thus it doesn't matter if no two blocks comprising a file are contiguous.
 
[quote name='boneless']I have 5 drives too and exactly like you, my files are scattered around. I used to change the paths during XP, but sometimes when updates for programs or games rolled out, I had to redirect to install. For some games it's a pain to remember which developer folder made which game, and sometimes EA had mutiple folders, so that was what I was referring to. I use gamesave manager now and take a leap of faith each time that it correctly backs up my gamesaves.:cry:



I've read that NTFS and anything newer doesn't need defrag anymore. It was mostly FAT32 files system from win98 or earlier.

On a side note, I did purchase an OCZ 240GB with $20 rebate so $240 total and another WD black 1TB to replace my existing drive to install the programs to. Best of all, I get ME3 for free for buying the drive as a promo.\\:D/

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227727[/QUOTE]


NTFS is subject to fragmentation. It's just that the efficiency of the built-in Windows defragger since Vista has been such that the need to invoke it manually should be very rare.

This was driven home by the drive that was the storage location for all of my t*rrent activity. Under XP regular defragging was a must. Under Windows 7 it never gets worse than 5%, which is hardly noticeable.
 
If you're building a new Intel system with a Z68 chipset, the new Smart Response Technology feature is a great hybrid approach. This lets you install Windows to a conventional hard drive of any size as if you were creating a RAID set. After Windows is runing you install the Intel RST software and point it at the SSD as a big cache drive. Sizes from 18.6 to 64 GB are supported.

I built such a system last week using a 32 GB Patriot Torqx SSD Fry's had down to $30 AR. Works beautifully. The OS and apps live on a 1 TB drive but the system boots from the SSD cache and the most often accessed files load from there, too.

This is a really great way to get most of the advantages of an SSD without the cost. Soon there will be a new generation of boards with mSATA slots for new tiny SSD cache units, making this usable in very small form factors and laptops.
 
[quote name='yayece']Honestly, all the SSD setup and "precaution" stuff like disabling prefetch and indexing etc. isn't really necessary. The idea behind it is that NAND memory in a SSD will wear out after you do so many writes to the drive. Prefetch, indexing, etc is supposed to cut down on unneeded writes.

Let's put things into perspective though. Here's the spec sheet for the Intel 320: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/ssd-320-specification.html (You can probably find similar specs for other drives). Under the reliability section, it says "The SSD will have a minimum of five years of useful life under typical client workloads with up to 20 GB of host writes per day."

5 YEARS if you write 20 GIGABYTES per day

How likely is that anybody will actually hit that?[/QUOTE]

If you notice it actually says "5 years writing up to 20GB per day." which is one of those phrases that aren't absolute. It's like when you rent internet access from your internet service provider and they say "Up to 10Mbit/sec.", however you're not guaranteed that will be the case.

Also, Intel is in the forefront of SSD technology with their extremely large R&D budget. They test/implement features before everybody else in a majority of cases and make use of existing things with new technology faster than others. If he bought an Intel SSD, I could say that he could forget about prefetching as Intel has fixed it to work more efficiently with their SSDs. I can't say the same for other manufacturers and my information is dated a year old so I can't say with certainty as he bought a newer SSD. Though each manufacturer you will want to make sure you're optimized for their own SSD. Intel even has a tool for this (not surprising):

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=18455

Finally, none of the stuff I mention is particularly a bad idea to use, however it does not increase the amount of writes to the SSD. I don't know where you're getting that information but that simply isn't true. The only thing on that list looking back at it that I disagree with is probably disabling write caching. Though like I said it's entirely optional.


[quote name='epobirs']NTFS is subject to fragmentation. It's just that the efficiency of the built-in Windows defragger since Vista has been such that the need to invoke it manually should be very rare.

This was driven home by the drive that was the storage location for all of my t*rrent activity. Under XP regular defragging was a must. Under Windows 7 it never gets worse than 5%, which is hardly noticeable.[/QUOTE]

Correct. However, the reason Windows 7 doesn't get above 5% is because it's a scheduled task that's on by default and will defrag every wednesday if I remember correctly. If you turn that off then it's an entirely different story.

Also I believe the next iteration of NTFS was said to not require defragmentation, but I could be wrong (Probably am now that I think about it). That might have been the other new file system that was recently made announced in the last half a year or so.
 
[quote name='Draekon']Also I believe the next iteration of NTFS was said to not require defragmentation, but I could be wrong (Probably am now that I think about it). That might have been the other new file system that was recently made announced in the last half a year or so.[/QUOTE]

I know Microsoft initially claimed that NTFS didn't require defragmentation, which is why there weren't any defragmentors for a long time for NTFS. Microsoft was proven wrong on that point.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']I know Microsoft initially claimed that NTFS didn't require defragmentation, which is why there weren't any defragmentors for a long time for NTFS. Microsoft was proven wrong on that point.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I believe they said the same thing with the new version of NTFS they're including in Windows 8 too, which is where I'm trying to base this information from. If I had the time to go look for it, I'd provide a link but unfortunately I don't.

However, like you said, Microsoft will likely be proven wrong with that too.
 
[quote name='Draekon']Yeah, I believe they said the same thing with the new version of NTFS they're including in Windows 8 too, which is where I'm trying to base this information from. If I had the time to go look for it, I'd provide a link but unfortunately I don't.

However, like you said, Microsoft will likely be proven wrong with that too.[/QUOTE]

I greatly doubt they would make the claim. NO file system is immune to fragmentation is you aren't going to have a huge portion of the drive lost to unusably small groups of sectors or put up with high latency from constantly seeking out a 'not too big, not too small' space for every new file write.

But there are ways to mitigate the causes of fragmentation so that it never gets above a certain level. The trick is finding the point where the cost is greater than the gain.

Aside from the file system, having a defrag built-in that waits for idle periods and does just a little work can be very effective. It only takes a few minutes a day to keep up, depending on how full the drive is.
 
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