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CAGcast #271: Home of the Tijuana Mudbath


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#31 BetaDemo

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:14 PM

Great show and thanks for the shout out! The point I was trying to make about Amazon/Audible is that to create a new Audible account you simply 'sign in' on Audible using your already existing Amazon username and password. It's that simple and since almost everyone on CAG has an Amazon account; then, almost everyone on CAG should support CAG by syncing your Amazon/Audible accounts through the referral link.

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#32 ShockandAww

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:24 PM

I just want to reiterate what someone else already said:

The Vita memory card will really only be a huge issue if you are downloading your games. So yes it will be an issue for many but it's not quite as bad as it was made out to be.

For example if you download Uncharted yeah it's damn near 3GB which would make a 4GB memory card a dumb buy. However if you buy the retail physical copy of Uncharted the save files are only about 64MB. Another example is Hot Shots Golf. Game download size is 1.1GB while the save files are only around 4MB.

So if you plan on buying retail even a 4GB memory card is a decent start and will easily hold all your save files, just not a bunch of full game downloads.

Either way I completely agree that memory should have been included in the first place.

#33 hunterrogue

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:27 AM

Cheapy you should have signed your Wii and auctioned it off for charity!! Better than just tossing a perfectly good paperweight!

#34 ac_fiz

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:38 AM

There is still a really great Wii game coming out in April. Xenoblade Chronicles. It's a jrpg which I don't think anyone on the Cagcast likes, but this is one of the best in a long time. Its at a 92 on metacritic. I played the europe edition and it's kind of like FFXII with mmo style play, but done a lot better.

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#35 metallicoholic

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 02:27 AM

Unless I misheard it, I don't think Cheapy threw out his Wii, I think he just threw out the accessories for his Wii. The console itself he just leant to his friend. Nevertheless I'd totally understand if you threw out your Wii. Even here in the states the resale value for one is in the toilet, especially if it's one of the first models.

I definitely agree with Shipwreck about the memory stick pricing. While it's true that the pricing/size of the sticks won't matter much to people buying the physical copies of the game, part of the appeal of the Vita is the ability to download full retail games. Of course people are going to want to take advantage of that and I wonder how many of those people will understand how much room they're going to need in order to do so. I think with the recent surge in iPhone/Android games, a lot of people take for granted not having to think about memory when it comes to purchasing games online. I'm curious to see how well the Vita does in the next couple of months once more games are released and the public realizes how much money they need to invest in memory sticks.

So in a week in which both Twisted Metal and UFC 3 come out, the only games discussed are Rhythm Heaven and Tekken 3DS. Not complaining, just thought it was funny. Keep up the great work guys. These podcasts help get me through a 10-hour workday.
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#36 Ozonekill

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:06 AM

As for the ME3 demo, I didn't think it was too spoilerish. The SP stuff wasn't that bad. I've been in media blackout but I played it anyway. Nothing major in the grand scheme of things. Btw Cheapy, if you wanna avoid spoilers, just play the MP part of it instead.


I've been in media blackout as well and played the demo. What was the spoiler? The Reapers fire dub-step at you?
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#37 BradGrenz

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:57 AM

I definitely agree with Shipwreck about the memory stick pricing. While it's true that the pricing/size of the sticks won't matter much to people buying the physical copies of the game, part of the appeal of the Vita is the ability to download full retail games. Of course people are going to want to take advantage of that and I wonder how many of those people will understand how much room they're going to need in order to do so. I think with the recent surge in iPhone/Android games, a lot of people take for granted not having to think about memory when it comes to purchasing games online. I'm curious to see how well the Vita does in the next couple of months once more games are released and the public realizes how much money they need to invest in memory sticks.


There are a few ways to look at the Vita memory pricing. As I mentioned before, the actual price of entry is just an additional $20. That's not too bad in absolute sense. I also mentioned that the memory pricing isn't bad compared to non-expandable memory pricing on iPhones/iPads, nor the kind of HDD upgrade pricing Microsoft has been charging with the Xbox this whole generation. In fact, right now an extra $50 will get you both 3G and 8GBs of storage. From Apple that would be a $230 upgrade.

But there are a couple technical reasons they went proprietary. First of all, since all games need to be playable as a download from flash storage, Sony needs to guarantee a certain level of performance for the memory cards. Think the WipEout load times are bad now? Imagine the same game if you were trying to play it off a slow as shit bargain MicroSD card at 2 MB per second. Sure, you got 32 GBs for $30, but if it takes 6 minutes to load a race, what's the point? Sony's pricing isn't that far off high performance flash memory.

Second, Sony needs to protect this device from piracy. They cannot afford to have everyone playing everything for free like the PSP. The size of the Vita memory cards is specifically designed to be too small for a MicroSD to be practical, thereby hopefully providing a barrier to people trying to load arbitrary data on to the device, or examine data created and stored for the Vita from a PC.

Technicals aside, you can just look at it like this. If the convenience and utility of a large Vita memory card is of value to people, they will be willing to pay for it. If people can bring themselves to pay $50 or $60 a year for Xbox Live (well, ~$35 a year for CAGgers), when MS is literally just lifting artificial locks on their ability to use their own hardware, internet connections and paid third party services, paying $20-100 for a physical chunk of memory should not be that big a deal.

I'm not disagreeing that having some amount of flash built in would have been nice, but I think a starting price of $250 with the choice to spend between $20-100 for memory is preferable to Sony packing in 8 or 16GB and moving the Wifi only price up to $299.

#38 orko60

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:09 AM

Cheapy really took Phil Harrison's comments about touch controls being a gimmick personally. Given that he made them six and a half years ago and left the company four years ago, it's probably OK to let it go now.


Right. And then his overall wish, what would make him love the Vita, is that it have LESS functionality? I just don't believe it.

I'd love to have a CagCast that is positive, and has less Apple blowing going on. It's embarrassing after a while.
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#39 trip1eX

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:17 AM

Not interested in Vita myself. I wouldn't bet on it succeeding. I think it is doomed. But a killer game or two can completely change the landscape. And realize pricing willl get lower and games will only grow in number and realize the PSP sold more than the 360 has worldwide.

Still I think Sony should have made the Vita tablet sized!

Edited by trip1eX, 17 February 2012 - 07:31 AM.


#40 DQT

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:41 AM

I just don't understand why people get so mad at Cheapy for picking on the Vita and 3DS. Cheapy's been shitting on the PSP and DS for like four years now. Often while I'm playing RPGs on them! It doesn't diminish my enjoyment in playing them or listening to the Cagcast.

He's allowed to voice his opinion on his own show.

#41 AvidWriter

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:15 PM

I know it's a little late but...

I read 'The Hunger Games' based only on Cheapy's recommendation. I loved it. Best read in a while. I'm about to dive into the second book tonight. Thank you Cheapy! Any other reads you recommend? Perhaps similar types? Perhaps a small segment called "What's Cheapy Reading?"

#42 metallicoholic

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:26 PM

[quote name='BradGrenz']There are a few ways to look at the Vita memory pricing. As I mentioned before, the actual price of entry is just an additional $20. That's not too bad in absolute sense. I also mentioned that the memory pricing isn't bad compared to non-expandable memory pricing on iPhones/iPads, nor the kind of HDD upgrade pricing Microsoft has been charging with the Xbox this whole generation. In fact, right now an extra $50 will get you both 3G and 8GBs of storage. From Apple that would be a $230 upgrade.

I see what you're saying about the iPhone/iPad HDD upgrade but how often does one need to upgrade the storage on that device? I am legitimately asking since I don't own either one. I do own a Kindle Fire and I never see myself filling that thing up completely with games since the file size is so small. I would imagine the $.99 games and apps on the iPad/iPhone are pretty small too, thus I don't see the need for much upgrading when compared to some of the larger games that are going to come out on the Vita.

As for the Xbox, right now you can get 320GB for $120 while 32GB for the Vita is $100. I'm not saying 32GB wouldn't hold an average Vita user over for the most part, but that pricing is outrageous. Anyone that builds up a serious collection of downloaded games will be forking over a lot of money through this new device.

[quote name='BradGrenz']Technicals aside, you can just look at it like this. If the convenience and utility of a large Vita memory card is of value to people, they will be willing to pay for it.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with you. If the convenience of better load times with the PS Vita memory stick is a value to people, they will pay the premium. I just wonder how many people will continue to buy memory sticks as they need them. I know you can store games on the PS3 but I think this goes back to convenience. It's much easier to just have all your games readily available (ala iPad/iPhone) than to have to keep switching out games because you've run out of room.
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#43 Eleven8Eighty3

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:17 PM

I really enjoyed the PS-Vita discussion. However, take Cheapy's advice on handheld games with a grain of salt, considering he is not interested in handheld gaming at all as he stated on the 8-4 Play Podcast. Also his comparison for all handheld consoles/games to his iphone is another rant to get people to buy an iphone (or rather any apple product)...that's it. He also stated that his gaming experience on that lasts "a few minutes."

#44 trip1eX

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:07 PM

Cheapie is throwing out his Wii to make room for the Wii U!!! Pretty obvious that is why.

#45 HansKaosu

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:32 PM

Oh wow.. No bad jokes from Wombat. Good job!

Good show :)

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#46 LiK

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:53 PM

I've been in media blackout as well and played the demo. What was the spoiler? The Reapers fire dub-step at you?


It's the second half of the demo where there's a specific mission in the middle of the full game. it's fairly spoilerish.
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#47 skubish

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:57 PM

Its sad for me but I think the portable market is dying. Everything has to be $0.99 or freemium and it seems like there is no market for high quality games anymore. There isn't anything on iOS I can play for more than 5 minutes and touch controls suck!

Great show guys!
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#48 AshesofWake

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:15 PM

What was the spoiler? The Reapers fire dub-step at you?


laughing. my. ass. off.


tank you.
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#49 RichMeisterMan

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:54 PM

I have no fucking idea what is being referred to when people talk about "spoilers" in the ME3 demo.

I played it and found that there was absolutely nothing worth writing home about story wise.

#50 usickenme

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:38 PM

There isn't anything on iOS I can play for more than 5 minutes and touch controls suck!


No offense but you are foolish

Game Dev Story was as good as anything I've played on the DS last year and the touch controls made it better.

I will agree that "console" style games on the iOs are terrible and I am glad I have a choice to play them on the Vita. But that doesn't mean I have to hate on the iPhone. To me, the more choices and types of games the better.

Edited by usickenme, 18 February 2012 - 03:08 AM.


#51 mrx001

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 10:59 PM

New rule for CheapyD.If you own stock for a company(ie Apple) then you don't get to pimp the companies products.

#52 AshesofWake

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:31 PM

I also agree with the agreeing people about the no spoilers in the ME3 demo. I don't know what wombat is talking aboot?
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#53 KtMack23

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:15 AM

I'm really tired of Cheapy D pushing all this apple shit. Honestly its annoying as hell. Portables aren't dying. Portable gaming consoles are so much better than anything the iPhone (or android or whatever) that its ridiculous that someone in the gaming industry is comparing them.

Man you people are cheap.

 


#54 BradGrenz

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 06:36 AM

As for the Xbox, right now you can get 320GB for $120 while 32GB for the Vita is $100. I'm not saying 32GB wouldn't hold an average Vita user over for the most part, but that pricing is outrageous. Anyone that builds up a serious collection of downloaded games will be forking over a lot of money through this new device.


Well, you can't just compare flash pricing to mechanical storage. The GBs per $ is always better on actual hard drives. But my point was MS is literally selling the same exact model Western Digital hard drives you can buy on NewEgg for $40 at 3x that price. The only technical difference is a custom firmware that tells the 360 you're allowed to use that drive. In the case of the Vita, Sony at least created a new standard with controls for quality and speed, so while it may be 3x the cost of a microSD card from Newegg, it's faster and (hopefully) more reliable.

#55 milkham

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:40 AM

It's the second half of the demo where there's a specific mission in the middle of the full game. it's fairly spoilerish.


wombat called it a "twist" though, i played through it maybe 4 times, I didn't think it was a big deal unless i completely missed something.
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#56 meager

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:06 AM

Really? Nobody who played the Mass Effect 3 Demo thinks what happened in the first part is considered a spoiler?

Spoiler


#57 Hoarr

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:55 PM

Really? Nobody who played the Mass Effect 3 Demo thinks what happened in the first part is considered a spoiler?

Spoiler


Yes!

I still need to finish my Renegade Female Shepard run with all of my side characters dead at the end. I can't wait to see where things go with that scenario.

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#58 Rouzhokuu

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:59 AM

Wait, the CAG Crew doesn't like a Sony product?

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#59 Kazaganthi

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:30 AM

Its sad for me but I think the portable market is dying. Everything has to be $0.99 or freemium and it seems like there is no market for high quality games anymore. There isn't anything on iOS I can play for more than 5 minutes and touch controls suck!

Great show guys!


I agree. But the basic consumer is pretty foolish. That's why things are priced at 99 or 98 or 95 cents on the dollar.

I don't care how cheap $1 really is. For a game that I'd play 1-3 times at 15 minutes tops? Not worth it to me. Those junk games used to be and may still be free internet games to pass the time at work.

I am a CAG, so I pay $20-$30 or less for my console games. And they give 8-60 hours of enjoyment. Can even resell them and move on to the next. You do the math.

But that's just me and my opinion. I do not own a 3DS, DS, PSP, or Vita or any portable game system actually. Unless a phone counts.


#60 52club

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:33 PM

It is interesting how lifestyle can affect your taste in games. I can understand for people that play portable games for less then 20 minutes at a time IOS games fill the void. While for people who play portable games in larger chunks of time, a dedicated gaming device like the 3DS or Vita is a better choice. If you are like me I try see the good in both, but I've got more time on my hands (since I don't have kids).

I'm not sure why but it reminds me of how important geography is in selecting our friends. If you ask someone they say it isn't important, but if you study someone's behavior it is one of the elements most correlated to selecting friends. I mention this because I am of Cheapy's opinions of devices that just don't make sense for his lifestyle, but might be great for someone with a longer commute (like Wombat mentioned).
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