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CAGcast #271: Home of the Tijuana Mudbath


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#61 Curufinwe

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:08 PM

I think a lot of people who are excited about the Vita have home situations where getting access to the main TV to play console games can be difficult because of wife and kids. So they really like the idea of being able to play Vita games that are close to their PS3 counterparts in graphics & scope on a screen that's huge compared to the screens on most phones.

It seems like Cheapy is too much of a boss to have that problem.

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#62 RedvsBlue

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:48 PM

This podcast has lost any semblance of objectivity. At this point it might as well be renamed the iOS Gamer podcast (which is likely already taken anyway). My best evidence evidence is when Cheapy blasted Sony and the Vita for the fact that a second analog was intentionally left out so there could be an incremental upgrade... Sony doesn't hold a candle to Apple when it comes to intentionally leaving out features for incremental upgrades. How about that iPhone 4G? Oh wait, next year we'll get it? ok.

Also, here's the deal with having memory cards instead of onboard memory. Yeah, its easy to look at it as nickel and diming the consumer but there's a flip side to that. One, these proprietary memory cards are designed such that they're there to prevent piracy. I'm all for combating piracy in this way rather than developers just abandoning a platform. Two, with memory cards at least you get to choose how much memory you want to pay for. Look at Apple for example, you usually get 1, 2 different options for memory size for any given model and that's it. Want more? Don't need as much as the minimum? Too bad, that's what you're locked into. At least with the Vita if you're not interested in digital downloads of content you can spend $20 and you're good to go. It gives you options of what you want out of your device instead of just being forced to settle on whatever the manufacturer sees fit that you'll need.

As for the Phil Harrison critique about touchscreen gaming? Dude's not even with the company anymore... In fact, he hasn't been with the company for 4 years. Even if the Vita was in development at that point, it was in its infancy not to mention the fact that the potential reason he left the company was that his opinions/views didn't fall in line with the direction of the company...

Yeah, Vita has its faults and limitations. Everything does, but to act like the thing is the worst consumer product and find everything to be a shortcoming it diminishes any legitimate critiques. This episode essentially sounded like every internet forum post for the last year about the Vita (minus the people on the other side hopelessly devoted to it).

I still don't get why everyone thinks iOS games are somehow completely replacing traditional portable games. The simple fact is that while it is on the rise, how do we know any of those people would have participated in gaming anyway? I look at it as the Wii-effect. Did the Wii really take that much away from 360/PS3 in terms of sales? Maybe, but a lot of people buying the Wii wouldn't have touched video games anyway so its not like the Wii "stole" that sale from PS3/360 but rather just pulled another person into gaming. Same idea as all those Facebook games. Its really difficult to quantify what those people would/wouldn't have spent their money on.

I think I'm probably just getting to the point where I need to take another break from the podcast, the completely biased outlook just gets to be a bit much sometimes.

#63 shinryuu

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:59 PM

I just don't understand why people get so mad at Cheapy for picking on the Vita and 3DS. Cheapy's been shitting on the PSP and DS for like four years now. Often while I'm playing RPGs on them! It doesn't diminish my enjoyment in playing them or listening to the Cagcast.

He's allowed to voice his opinion on his own show.

I think it's because he's being irrational to handheld gaming in general, rather than just saying it's not for him and he has no interest in the handhelds nor the games.

He made the argument that, why play the handheld version when the console version is superior? Going by this logic, why play games on the console when the PC version is superior? There's more factors to consider if he's going to make that argument (controls, comfort factor, where you play your handheld, etc). He compares the Vita, a gaming handheld, to the iPhone. Seriously the Twitter app on the iPhone is that much better? I like Twitter (Echofon) on the iPhone but I don't really care if it's just decent on the Vita. It's like Blu-Ray on the PS3 versus a dedicated Blu-Ray player.

I agreed with most of the Vita points as it doesn't appeal to me and the pricing is too much.
:-#

#64 xtreme_Zr2

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

Good show this week.

Regarding the price point of the downloadable games on the Vita, they are not the only Company with ridiculously overpriced digital content. Case in point, I was browsing the xbox marketplace this morning and saw Star Wars: The Force Unleashed. Never played this game and thought I'd check it out, except when I saw the price point was at $29.99! The game is over three years old and a sequel came out a year after. Needless to say I passed.

I believe this is going to be the norm when other companies move to digital distribution (Xbox 720?). If there is no competition for download only games (bye bye gamestop) then what is the incentive to lower the price? Its a monopolistic price point right now with the Vita, but I believe when you have digital distribution hitting 2 or 3 of the console makers, only then will an incentive occur to put a game on sale to move it on that console and increase the install base. E.g. if both xbox and sony have a new release coming out..then incentives will hit to push the consumer into buying it on a specific system.

I am in no way defending sony as I only have a 360 and a DS. I just believe that the future with digital distribution will lead to higher prices overall.

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#65 RichMeisterMan

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:58 PM

I think it's because he's being irrational to handheld gaming in general, rather than just saying it's not for him and he has no interest in the handhelds nor the games.

He made the argument that, why play the handheld version when the console version is superior? Going by this logic, why play games on the console when the PC version is superior? There's more factors to consider if he's going to make that argument (controls, comfort factor, where you play your handheld, etc). He compares the Vita, a gaming handheld, to the iPhone. Seriously the Twitter app on the iPhone is that much better? I like Twitter (Echofon) on the iPhone but I don't really care if it's just decent on the Vita. It's like Blu-Ray on the PS3 versus a dedicated Blu-Ray player.

I agreed with most of the Vita points as it doesn't appeal to me and the pricing is too much.


+1 for the use of Echofon, I have an android, and still think it's the best twitter client. If you ever find yourself with an android device I'd recommend Plume as there is no echofon. :-(

Anyway, I disagree that cheapy is being completely irrational though. While I admit that handheld gaming is largely something I don't care for, I find that there are a lot of titles that are put on handhelds just to have an excuse for lowered production values and so that they can more easily churn out the next installment of a title. (I actually wrote a blog here on cag about it)

Two examples being Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker and Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep. Both games were absolutely fantastic but I found that I would have enjoyed them much more if I were able to enjoy them on my tv screen with beefed up graphics and more voice acting and a narrative propelled more with cut scenes. Both aforementioned games also would have benefited greatly from a 2nd joystick (an issue now somewhat moot with the 3DS and Vita). I was also completely befuddled by the sequel to Valkyria Chronicles being made for a handheld after it personally being the only game other than MGS4 that I found worth owning in the first 5 years of the PS3's life.

#66 kevgret

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:07 AM

Just wanted to jump in here and correct shipwreck about a comment he made regarding Alan Wake. He said something about the game not selling... well... hes a bit off according to this article..

http://www.industryg...-to-15-million/

The perception around Alan Wake is that it didn't sell very well. After all, it started off with only 145,000 units sold, according to NPD. The big picture, however, reveals far greater sales for the title than anyone thought. IndustryGamers did a little digging, and here's what we found out.

The latest NPD numbers are now at 330K units, and globally we understand that number is likely in the 500K range or more (although Microsoft, which published the 360 exclusive, wouldn't confirm it for us). The most interesting part, however, is that Alan Wake saw a rather large number of digital download sales, which were never counted.



You see, last holiday season Microsoft launched a bundle for Xbox 360 that included a digital copy of Alan Wake and a physical copy of Forza 3. Microsoft did something similar this year, with a bundle that features a digital copy of Halo Reach and a physical copy of Fable III. Strangely, it would appear that the digital sales of Alan Wake weren't counted but the digital sales for Halo Reach were.

Sources have indicated to IndustryGamers that around 900K sales were never counted for Alan Wake's digital release. Remedy wouldn't give us the exact data, but Oskari Häkkinen, Head of franchise development at Remedy, told us, "Unfortunately we can't share numbers with you... The Wake bundles are substantial, in fact about half of the story - the untold story if you like. At the end of the day, we all love to follow charts, but the most important thing for Remedy really is about knowing how many people we reach and entertain Рnot necessarily what a measure or sales chart says."



He added, "Alan Wake's digital bundle was the first of it's kind. As a developer, we like testing new ground and when the digital opportunity was presented to us, we accepted. It's good to see more of it being done now as it reflects the success of the Wake bundle. To take a guess, I'd presume the reason the numbers haven't been registered is due to the untrodden ground we stepped on last year with the Wake digital bundle– Digital packages now seem to be part of business as usual, as are the sales. We certainly wouldn't mind seeing those sales added to the pot also though."

IndustryGamers reached out to Microsoft for comment, but the publisher did not give us any statement or further information on digital vs physical sales tracking on 360 titles.

As for Remedy, the developer isn't done with Alan Wake just yet. A standalone digital follow-up (not DLC but not Alan Wake 2) is in the works for Xbox 360. It will be revealed on December 10 at the Spike VGAs.

Edited by kevgret, 20 February 2012 - 02:18 AM.


#67 Kylearan

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:45 AM

Apple TV was some of the best money I've ever spent, Fuck you Wombat


Yeah, pretty weird you're so down on the ATV2, Wombat.

Jailbreak it and throw XBMC on that thing (or Plex, if you prefer), and it's the sweetest and cheapest DLNA device I know of.

Should it be that kick-ass out of the box? No question. But I won't begrudge Apple for trying to control the user experience. Just glad those of us who want to can circumvent it.

#68 Velo214

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:20 AM

yeah so i just picked up skylanders for my kids at bestbuy for 40 pricematch tru, and i see a few figures there but im like i will wait til i check it out to pick up extra figures. i hear the gaming supervisor say yeah there is only 2 skylanders left, but im like there is a few boxes left of the bundle what is he talking about. the 2 left were chopchop going for 8.99. i remember cag forums saying legendary chopchop in 3pack going for $25 at tru, so i figure i will get that.

i come home and now i want that chopchop and tru is sold out online and instore, and i call back bestbuy and they are sold out. wtf... yeah so i guess i am now one of those addicted. i havnt even set the game up yet, but i am obsessive compulsive and want at least a stealth elf and chopchop and drobot... omg how can these be sold out everywhere?

also my daughter read hunger games and is now reading mockingjay... are these child appropriate? she is really smart, but still only 11 years old... i have caught her reading crazy books before, but didnt know if i should tell her to find more age appropriate books or not. Thanx!

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#69 Sinfulfate

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:11 AM

Good Podcast. I dont understand why Sony doesn't release a digital download only handheld that just plays PSN games. PSN/XBLA games are the perfect types of games for a handheld system. They're cheap and a lot of them offer the same quality as a full retail game. I'd be all over a handheld if it had games like NBA JAM:OFE, Dishwasher Undead Samurai, Trine, Braid, Shatter, Bastion, Outland, etc.

#70 Curufinwe

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:53 PM

Games like that will be on the Vita eventually.

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#71 Velo214

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:52 AM

i guess that 40k cost to patch a game is why EA never patched the game breaking save corrupting bug in brutal legend after you get more than 75% completion. ugh

he always blames EA for not letting him release the patch doublefine made to fix the game.

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#72 rogueweapon

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:10 PM

:applause: jj - still . thanks
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#73 triplehelix

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:49 PM

Cheapy,
You should message ea Vancouver and see if they will give you a ps3 copy of NHL 12. We have a club of cags, and I'll give you a solid beating in vs too. I'll even let you play as Vancouver with an 100 overall loungo... higher rated than Patrick Roy, come on ea.

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#74 dreamparacite

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:40 PM

Cheapy was more level headed about the iPhone's capabilities it seems, agreeing that it isn't the best in portable gaming. That being said he seems to dislike any portable gaming. Console games (and even better PC games) will of course have the better experience, but you can't expect the same level of quality for something you can take with you on the go. That being said I agree, portable games should be much cheaper seeing as they are near home console price these days.

Also Apple TV may or may not be great (I've never used it) but I've also never seen one in person, so Wombat is right to downplay it's greatness, I'm sure you love yours though, cheapy ;)

#75 mrlogical

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:59 AM

Is Wombat's super secret Tim Schafer story in which he acted kind of douchey this one referenced by Penny Arcade:

"Tim Schafer hates me; I stole a yo-yo of his once, but I also said something mean about a game he made, and when I saw him at GDC a couple years ago he flipped me off."

Seems consistent with Cheapy and Shipwreck's reaction to the story (kind of a douchey thing to do, but not so bad as to make one think Schafer's a bad guy). Also seems like the kind of secret story Wombat would have access to. Do I win a prize?

#76 CheapyD

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:12 AM

Is Wombat's super secret Tim Schafer story in which he acted kind of douchey this one referenced by Penny Arcade:

"Tim Schafer hates me; I stole a yo-yo of his once, but I also said something mean about a game he made, and when I saw him at GDC a couple years ago he flipped me off."


Nope.

#77 mcLuv

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:10 AM

Apple TV was some of the best money I've ever spent, Fuck you Wombat


Apple TV is trash.

#78 Whutt2000

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:34 PM

Can't wait to play Lumines on iPad? You know there's already an iVersion of Lumines called Lumines touch. This proves that touch devices suck when playing this. The vita version is superior. Not all games are better on the iPlatform. And nobody wants an AppleTV. Stop suckin Apple's dick. I'm an Apple device user and lover, but the degree to which you go is nauseating. Using Apple products is a great experience, but not everything is iWorthy. Lumines on iPad? What a joke. I have every Lumines version that came out. LOVE the game. Thank god they had a demo of it b4 I plunked down $3 bux on it.