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2012 MLB Discussion


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#661 Yanksfan

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:29 PM

This is awesome, Rangers had their chance the last two years and couldn't follow through. This offseason should be interesting, I'm assuming Ron Washington is going to get fired and then with all the free agents... Should be fun.


I don't understand the rush to fire Washington. He has led them to the playoffs in three straight years, including TWO AL pennants. How many AL pennants did they have previously? 0.

#662 chuckie88

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:40 PM

It was a terrible call, but I had a hard time getting upset when the team played like shit. 3 errors led to 4 unearned runs and they lost by 3.

The call sucked and killed momentum for a potential comeback, but if they hadn't made so many stupid mistakes it would have been a different game.

I agree with all of this, the call sucked but so did the Braves' play.

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#663 DestroVega

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:47 PM

the system was stupid way before the blown call. it was stupid upon conception.


It's not stupid, I've laid out the reasons already.

#664 renique46

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:26 AM

lmao @ 1-4 playoff system, Fuck outta here.

#665 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:33 AM

Terry Francona gets another chance to bring a title to a franchise that hasn't seen one in ages in Cleveland. I would've loved to see Sandy Alomar, Jr. get the shot to manage the team since I'm not sure that he won't be picked up by one of the teams needing a new manager this off-season.


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#666 pitfallharry219

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:12 AM

The Reds go all year without an injured starter, and Cueto leaves with an injury after eight pitches. Yeesh.

#667 chuckie88

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:26 AM

Verlander was great in game one, here's to hoping the Tigers can somehow keep it up away from Comerica Park.
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#668 ElwoodCuse

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:17 AM

How is the economic system broken? The team with the smallest payroll won their division and finished one game back of best record in the AL.

The Red Sox spent and spent and spent and went down in blaze of the opposite of glory.


Oh, this crap again. Do not even try to pretend that big money teams aren't playing a different game than everyone else. It doesn't matter that players can still get injured, underperform, etc., it's flat out wrong that it's easy for some teams to buy their way out of problems and bury their mistakes.

Why should a team get to play a tiebreaker game with a team they didn't finish tied with? If you want to expand the playoffs fine but don't give us this one-game sudden death crap.
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#669 bigdaddybruce44

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:15 AM

Oh, this crap again. Do not even try to pretend that big money teams aren't playing a different game than everyone else. It doesn't matter that players can still get injured, underperform, etc., it's flat out wrong that it's easy for some teams to buy their way out of problems and bury their mistakes.

Why should a team get to play a tiebreaker game with a team they didn't finish tied with? If you want to expand the playoffs fine but don't give us this one-game sudden death crap.


Pretty lame economic argument that people have been making for years and years and years, despite all of the smaller market teams that have performed well. Teams with money always have an advantage over teams without money, no matter what the system is.

And the new playoff system is great. Don't wanna get stuck in a one-game playoff? Here's a grand idea: win your division. Complaining that one-game somehow ruins the 162 games you played is pretty ignorant. If a team just misses the playoffs by one game, was their season somehow ruined? It is what it is. The name of the game is winning. You don't win, you go home.

#670 renique46

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:45 AM

Why should a team get to play a tiebreaker game with a team they didn't finish tied with? If you want to expand the playoffs fine but don't give us this one-game sudden death crap.


Ironic thing is Texas & Baltimore were tied anyway so they would have had to play regardless if it was last year but only idiots are agreeing with this garbage 1 game your out shit should just go back to the old format if this is how its gonna be. Sucks that this happens during Chipper Jones last season, would have been way better to at least have a full playoff series before his sendoff.

#671 KingBroly

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:54 AM

Game 163 is crap if they aren't tied. It's hardly 'getting in the Playoffs' if you ask me. Not to mention that the winner gets to Host Games 1 and 2 of the next series against the #1. Complete bullshit. The winner should get no benefit over the #1 seed.

I don't think the Braves deserved to win the game, and I think Chipper's error alone cost them the game (it led to 3 Cardinals runs), but that call was absolutely ridiculous. Because of it you saw a plethora of infield fly calls today when there are usually none.
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#672 dmaul1114

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

Agreed. Braves didnt' deserve to win, but a one game playoff is BS. Baseball is already a funky sport where the best team doesn't always win even a 7 game series since player performance is much more streaky in baseball than other sports. So a one game playoff is just a crapshoot and should be left for tie breakers.

Make the first round at least 3 games if not 5. Go back to a 2-2-1 format for the five game series, not the 2-3 where the better team may only get 1 home game if they get swept.


And yes, teams with money do have an advantage. They can afford the superstars that other teams can't (see how many great players leave smaller market teams as free agents as their team can't match the offers they get) and they can pay to have more depth on the roster.

They don't always win the title, but the big money teams make the playoffs much more regularly than the small market teams. i.e. the Yankees are in the playoffs almost every year, and the Orioles are in it for the first time in 15 years or so.

There needs to be a hard salary cap, that also has a minimum salary. Owners have to be willing to spend, and if teams can't find one they should be contracted. There are too many teams and talent is spread around too thin these days--especially with fewer US athletes choosing baseball over football or basketball. There also should be things like a Larry Bird exception to the cap so teams can pay more to retain their own players in free agency. More fan's should get to enjoy things like Chipper Jones having a great career with their team. And that just doesn't happen much any more with the greed of players and the economic imbalance that makes it hard for a lot of teams to match the big money teams in keeping their stars.

#673 GhostShark

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

I don't understand the rush to fire Washington. He has led them to the playoffs in three straight years, including TWO AL pennants. How many AL pennants did they have previously? 0.


Yea, but you're not looking at his decision making. If anything, it was the front office that led Texas to the WS, not Washington. His in-game decision making is just awful. For example, there was no need to go to Derek Holland against Orioles, when you had Koji getting warmed. No reason at all. And his decision to roll with -1.4 WAR Mike Young all season was also terrible.
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#674 CaseyRyback

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

Yea, but you're not looking at his decision making. If anything, it was the front office that led Texas to the WS, not Washington. His in-game decision making is just awful. For example, there was no need to go to Derek Holland against Orioles, when you had Koji getting warmed. No reason at all. And his decision to roll with -1.4 WAR Mike Young all season was also terrible.


Who was he going to play instead of Young? Moreland and Napoli were out for almost 3 months combined.

He went with Holland because he knew he needed him in the next round. It didn't work out but I understand the move. Wash wanted to give the kid a shot at redemption.

We aren't even having a discussion about this if the pitching staff as a whole played well in the world series. Except for Lewis no one pitched all that well in both series. Last year the bullpen and Wilson were the reason they lost. The year before Wilson and Lee came up small. They also didn't hit for shit in 2010.

#675 pitfallharry219

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:23 PM

They don't always win the title, but the big money teams make the playoffs much more regularly than the small market teams. i.e. the Yankees are in the playoffs almost every year, and the Orioles are in it for the first time in 15 years or so.


Yes, the last time was when Peter Angelos hired Pat Gillick in '96 and gave him a pretty much open checkbook.

#676 n8rockerasu

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:51 PM

There needs to be a hard salary cap, that also has a minimum salary. Owners have to be willing to spend, and if teams can't find one they should be contracted. There are too many teams and talent is spread around too thin these days--especially with fewer US athletes choosing baseball over football or basketball. There also should be things like a Larry Bird exception to the cap so teams can pay more to retain their own players in free agency. More fan's should get to enjoy things like Chipper Jones having a great career with their team. And that just doesn't happen much any more with the greed of players and the economic imbalance that makes it hard for a lot of teams to match the big money teams in keeping their stars.


I somewhat agree. But at the same time...Atlanta had Ted Turner money for how long? Should George Steinbrenner really have been penalized because he cared more about his team and wanted to invest more in it than Billionaire Ted? It's not like the Braves were owned by John's Hot Dog Shop or something, lol.

#677 dmaul1114

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:06 PM

Of course. The Braves had the #2 salary to the Yankees for a long time and won 14 straight division titles as a result.

I'm not going to support the unequal system just because it benefited my team for a long time.

Sports are a lot more interesting when there's more competitive balance. See the NFL as the best example of the more balanced competition you get when you have a good salary cap system in place.

NBA too to a lesser extent since many teams happily pay the luxury tax.

#678 n8rockerasu

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:21 PM

Of course. The Braves had the #2 salary to the Yankees for a long time and won 14 straight division titles as a result.

I'm not going to support the unequal system just because it benefited my team for a long time.

Sports are a lot more interesting when there's more competitive balance. See the NFL as the best example of the more balanced competition you get when you have a good salary cap system in place.

NBA too to a lesser extent since many teams happily pay the luxury tax.


Ok, well now you just went way off track, lol. The NBA? Are you nuts? Less than 1/3 of the teams in the league have EVER won a title. Even in the NFL, it's relatively the same few teams year after year (Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Packers). Even if you remove money as being a factor, players still gravitate toward particular teams for other reasons. Whether it's the history of the team, or the popularity, etc.

And when they DO choose a lesser team, it's 100% because of the money (see: Mario Williams of the Bills)...which cripples the team's ability to make any other moves anyway. The notion that with equal resources, a player is going to choose the Royals over the Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers and magically turn them into a winner is just absurd. If it wasn't, the Bills would have made the playoffs once in the past 15 years and the Phoenix Suns would have won a title by now.

Edited by n8rockerasu, 07 October 2012 - 07:29 PM.


#679 GamerDude316

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

Add me to the list of people who think the one-game playoff needs to go away. I'm all for giving another team a shot, but it should be a best of 3 series instead of 1 game. Also, the Braves call was AWFUL and the ump should be ashamed of himself.

#680 pacifickarma

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:39 PM

...and the playoff system is officially bull$hit. Whatever MLB exec thought it would be a good idea to send the team with "home field advantage" out on the road to start the playoffs needs to be fired.

#681 KillerRamen

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:01 PM

I'm a life long Cardinals fan and I'm really not sure how I feel about the Wildcard Game concept. I liked it this year because my team benefited from it by getting into the playoffs while the Angles/Pujols did not. I also thought it was funny that the Brewers' complaining last year about it being unfair that the Cardinals got in and they didn't seemed to have helped the Cardinals this year.

However, I do think it's a bad idea to have a one game playoff. Yet I'm not really sure if they should expand it beyond 3 games because I really don't want to see baseball being played in mid-November.
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#682 j.t

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:11 PM

Cards failed to score with base loaded zero out with only 2 pitches need for 3 outs.

#683 n8rockerasu

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:10 AM

Man, great pitching from Sabathia tonight, and some clutch swings from the Yankees "light hitters". A-Rod, as always, pure crap in the playoffs. I'll tell ya, as good as his career was, it blows my mind that he could never figure out that the most important thing is putting the bat on the ball. Look at that 9th inning. Ibanez's hit, Jeter's hit, Ichiro's "hit"...nothing fancy, and a bit of luck. But you're never going to have any bounces go your way when you're just fanning at everything. To think that there was ever a debate over who the better player was between A-Rod and Jeter makes me laugh now. At least Jeter knows something about hitting other than "swing as hard as you can".

#684 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:36 AM

Man, great pitching from Sabathia tonight, and some clutch swings from the Yankees "light hitters". A-Rod, as always, pure crap in the playoffs. I'll tell ya, as good as his career was, it blows my mind that he could never figure out that the most important thing is putting the bat on the ball. Look at that 9th inning. Ibanez's hit, Jeter's hit, Ichiro's "hit"...nothing fancy, and a bit of luck. But you're never going to have any bounces go your way when you're just fanning at everything. To think that there was ever a debate over who the better player was between A-Rod and Jeter makes me laugh now. At least Jeter knows something about hitting other than "swing as hard as you can".


Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous that Jeter was ever in the conversation with the greatest SS/3B of all time.

Jeter has a postseason K% of 17.8, A-Rod's is 21.1%. Taken with A-Rod's power and higher walk rate, the higher K rate is fine. And it's not like A-Rod had one of the greatest postseasons of all-time in 2009 or anything. It's also not like A-Rod has better postseason WPA, Clutch, and LI ratings either. Oh, and that better WPA was accrued in 500 fewer postseason plate appearances.

There is literally nothing that Jeter has on A-Rod in the postseason outside of batting average, and since A-Rod's got him by 12 points of OBP and 34 points of SLG, the average advantage is moot.
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#685 n8rockerasu

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:22 AM

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous that Jeter was ever in the conversation with the greatest SS/3B of all time.

Jeter has a postseason K% of 17.8, A-Rod's is 21.1%. Taken with A-Rod's power and higher walk rate, the higher K rate is fine. And it's not like A-Rod had one of the greatest postseasons of all-time in 2009 or anything. It's also not like A-Rod has better postseason WPA, Clutch, and LI ratings either. Oh, and that better WPA was accrued in 500 fewer postseason plate appearances.

There is literally nothing that Jeter has on A-Rod in the postseason outside of batting average, and since A-Rod's got him by 12 points of OBP and 34 points of SLG, the average advantage is moot.


LOL...get out of here with those cherry picked numbers. A-Rod's 2009 postseason was solid. It was also his only postseason EVER that he played well in. He's been terrible this season, and is coming into the playoffs especially cold. There's no way in hell I expect him to turn it around with just the flip of a switch. Alex just does not possess the intestinal fortitude to be up in a pressure situation.

As a Yankee fan, I've accepted it by now. He has struck out in so many big situations with RISP, it's not even funny. When it's at the point that you can't even count on him to move the runners over with less than two outs, what is the purpose of having him in the lineup? Jeter isn't anything close to what he used to be, but at least he found a way to reinvent himself and continue to contribute to the team. The Yankees would probably be better off starting Chavez at 3B at this point.

#686 bigdaddybruce44

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:59 AM

There is literally nothing that Jeter has on A-Rod in the postseason outside of batting average, and since A-Rod's got him by 12 points of OBP and 34 points of SLG, the average advantage is moot.


This is seriously a statement that only a person who doesn't really watch baseball could make. You're basing it solely on numbers. You can punch numbers into a computer, and it could tell you A-Rod's not that bad in the postseason, but anyone who actually watches baseball knows the situation is a little different. Outside of the 2004 ALDS against the Twins and his magnificent 2009 playoff run, A-Rod has failed in almost every, single big spot he was put into. Anyone who watches the games knows this. And it's not like, "Oh, man, A-Rod really hit the ball on the screws 4 times tonight. Bad luck." No, the man has had entire series where he looks absolutely lost at the plate, swung at everything, and if he didn't miss it, either popped up or hit weak dribblers.

At the end of the day, I'll take the championship he carried the Yankees to. If he keeps being a playoff dud, it's fine. But don't ever try to act like the difference between Jeter and A-Rod is negligible, because it's not. A-Rod has all of the physical talent in the universe (well, at least, he did), but Jeter simply finds a way to will himself into succeeding in big spots.

#687 renique46

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:53 AM

Nice choke job Baltimore.

#688 DestroVega

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:54 PM

A-Rod still carried them to the 2009 World Series, so you can't take that away from him.

#689 Icegaryen

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous that Jeter was ever in the conversation with the greatest SS/3B of all time.

Jeter has a postseason K% of 17.8, A-Rod's is 21.1%. Taken with A-Rod's power and higher walk rate, the higher K rate is fine. And it's not like A-Rod had one of the greatest postseasons of all-time in 2009 or anything. It's also not like A-Rod has better postseason WPA, Clutch, and LI ratings either. Oh, and that better WPA was accrued in 500 fewer postseason plate appearances.

There is literally nothing that Jeter has on A-Rod in the postseason outside of batting average, and since A-Rod's got him by 12 points of OBP and 34 points of SLG, the average advantage is moot.


These post season numbers look bad to you?

.308 .374 .466
.273 .383 .490

Jeter will be in the top 5 best SS of all time when his career is over.

#690 kill3r7

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:17 PM

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous that Jeter was ever in the conversation with the greatest SS/3B of all time.

Jeter has a postseason K% of 17.8, A-Rod's is 21.1%. Taken with A-Rod's power and higher walk rate, the higher K rate is fine. And it's not like A-Rod had one of the greatest postseasons of all-time in 2009 or anything. It's also not like A-Rod has better postseason WPA, Clutch, and LI ratings either. Oh, and that better WPA was accrued in 500 fewer postseason plate appearances.

There is literally nothing that Jeter has on A-Rod in the postseason outside of batting average, and since A-Rod's got him by 12 points of OBP and 34 points of SLG, the average advantage is moot.


And this is a perfect example of how numbers fail to capture ones true performance. Anyone who follows the Yankees knows that Jeter has performed much better than Arod through the years. Arod has had two amazing postseason series 2004 and 2009. That's it. At the end of the day if it's bottom of the 9th, runner on second, 2 outs, I ,as well as most Yankee fans, would prefer Jeter batting over Arod.

PS Jeter will go down as one of the greatest shortstops to ever play the game. Haters gonna hate.