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2012 MLB Discussion


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#991 tcrash247

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

I'm not saying he's bad, I just don't think he's great and worth the money. I know you guys like sabermetrics and hold them in a higher regard than ERA, but just looking at his ERA, he's pretty average.

#992 DestroVega

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:22 PM

I'm not saying he's bad, I just don't think he's great and worth the money. I know you guys like sabermetrics and hold them in a higher regard than ERA, but just looking at his ERA, he's pretty average.


His playoff performances have been abysmal, albeit with a small sample size. This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.

#993 speedracer

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

His playoff performances have been abysmal, albeit with a small sample size.

He got blown up by a team that blew up everybody. Come on now.

This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.

That was a long time ago. One could also argue that since he's not even the #1 on the Dodgers that it's not like he's taking the world on by himself (helloooo KC). One could also argue that since this is the first time in his career that he's had a long term contract with a team with zero intent on moving him, that might be helpful.

Non issue.

And as a tidy side bonus, the Dodgers have always pushed Chad Billingsley to the maximum because they desperately needed him to be the stud they always hoped. The now ridiculous Dodger starting situation with their signing of Grienke and that Korean dude (Bills is what, #3 at best.. maybe #4?) allows them to take better care of Bills and his ongoing health problems.
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#994 Beatofficer

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:22 PM

His playoff performances have been abysmal, albeit with a small sample size. This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.



he hasn't had anxiety issues since 2006 I think? It's been several years.
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#995 CaseyRyback

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

Plus orange county is pretty close to L.A. and he pitched pretty well for the Angels.

#996 PancakesAreLove

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:56 PM

Jesus I feel sorry for Royals fans.

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#997 Icegaryen

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

If that list tells you anything, it's that WAR isn't everything. According to that list, Jon Lester and Dan Haren are deserving of huge contracts too and players you'd rather have than Kershaw, Weaver, Hamels and Cain, right? Take out Greinke's fluke 2009 and he's going to drop in the list.

Haren has a back issue. Lester has been going downhill for a few years now. Greinke is on the same level as Weaver, Hamels and Cain.

Lets look at 4 pitchers:

Pitcher A: 188.2 IP 6.77 K/9 2.15 BB/9 3.75 FIP 4.02 SIERA
Pitcher B: 212.1 IP 8.48 K/9 2.29 BB/9 3.10 FIP 3.30 SEIRA
Pitcher C: 215.1 IP 9.03 K/9 2.17 BB/9 3.30 FIP 3.22 SIERA
Pitcher D: 219.1 IP 7.92 K/9 2.09 BB/9 3.40 FIP 3.62 SIERA

Pitcher B is Zack. Weaver is A, Hamels is C and Cain is D. So yeah, Zack deserves this contract.

This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.


Only Zack Greinke himself can tell you if he will have anxiety in LA.

Edited by HornyPony, 11 December 2012 - 11:36 PM.


#998 bvharris

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

Lester has been going downhill for a few years now.


Really it's just one year. His 2011 season, while not quite on par with his best, was still a fine season by just about any standard. His 2012 was atrocious, but you could say the same for just about anyone on the Sox.

It's certainly not unreasonable to expect that the return of John Farrell will help straighten him out. He's 28 years old, I think it'd be a bit premature to close the book on him.

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#999 Icegaryen

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:40 PM

Really it's just one year. His 2011 season, while not quite on par with his best, was still a fine season by just about any standard. His 2012 was atrocious, but you could say the same for just about anyone on the Sox.

It's certainly not unreasonable to expect that the return of John Farrell will help straighten him out. He's 28 years old, I think it'd be a bit premature to close the book on him.


His K/9 have been dropping with HR/9 increasing. Regardless, he is still a good pitcher and gave pretty much the same production as Zack in 2011. Historically, Zack is better.

#1000 CaseyRyback

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:32 AM

http://espn.go.com/l...angeles-dodgers

The one thing I always find funny about Greinke is that he has the worst player photo on ESPN. Dude looks super serial in that photo. Almost like someone just lit a bag of dog shit on fire on his front porch and he just stepped in it.

Also if money was really an issue, that must mean that Texas offered like 6/110 or something (which I doubt). If money was everything, I don't think he factored in cost of living and taxes. I remember reading that if the deal was 180 from LA it would be comparable to 150 from Texas.

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#1001 Beatofficer

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:10 AM

Reds got Shin-Soo Choo in what looks like a 3 team trade with the Indians and Diamondbacks.
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#1002 pitfallharry219

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:26 AM

Youkilis signed a one year deal with the Yankees.

#1003 GhostShark

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:26 AM

Pretty decent trade, and it looks like all the teams got what the wanted. My key concern here is that I hope this doesn't affect any deal concerning Justin Upton coming to Texas.
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#1004 Beatofficer

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:30 AM

Pretty decent trade, and it looks like all the teams got what the wanted. My key concern here is that I hope this doesn't affect any deal concerning Justin Upton coming to Texas.


I'm really surprised Arizona gave up Bryan Shaw and Bauer to be honest, Shaw had some nasty stuff and Bauer a lot of potential.
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#1005 Icegaryen

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:45 AM

Huh Arizona is putting a lot of emphasis on defense. They wanted Simmons from the Braves for Upton and Didi G is a glove first shortstop. Can't help but to think that Bauer could have fetched more.

#1006 speedracer

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:29 PM

Someone will give him 5 years. Though I would not want my team to touch him with a stick. The last time he played over 150 games was in 2008.

By buying through age 36, you're leaving him with shit on the other side of the contract. He ain't gettin another big one after that. So how much would he need to sign if 4 years was max? $25/year? $30/year? What's the premium to not have the 40 year old Hamilton under contract?

Not to bring up our little spat again, but that's part of the value I see in AGon. We walk away in 5 years. Votto is owed $45m for his age 39 and 40 years. That's a fuckton of cash for an old man.

So apparently the number was between 25 and 30 a year. Report is the Phillies have offered 3/$80, or $26.6m/year.

edit: rumor was fake apparently

Edited by speedracer, 12 December 2012 - 07:36 PM.

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#1007 integralsmatic

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

Pretty decent trade, and it looks like all the teams got what the wanted. My key concern here is that I hope this doesn't affect any deal concerning Justin Upton coming to Texas.


Towers has been quoted as saying the trade has no made trading Upton more unlikely.

I guess for the rangers, its all on Hamilton now.
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#1008 GhostShark

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

Which is terrible, because they will overpay for him. But, really, they have no other choice. Unless Jon Daniels has got something cooking that we don't know about.
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#1009 Icegaryen

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:57 AM

So apparently the number was between 25 and 30 a year. Report is the Phillies have offered 3/$80, or $26.6m/year.

edit: rumor was fake apparently


I think quite a few teams would like Hamilton on a 3 year deal. Thus, someone will definitely offer him a forth year. I expect a team like the Mariners offer him a 4/100 and Texas matching it.

But even if Hamilton slips through the fingers and Upton is no longer available, Swisher is certainly not a bad replacement.

#1010 kill3r7

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:25 AM

I think quite a few teams would like Hamilton on a 3 year deal. Thus, someone will definitely offer him a forth year. I expect a team like the Mariners offer him a 4/100 and Texas matching it.

But even if Hamilton slips through the fingers and Upton is no longer available, Swisher is certainly not a bad replacement.


If it's only a 3 year deal I think the Yankees become a player, assuming they are able to move Granderson.

#1011 tcrash247

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:40 PM

Hamilton reportedly signs with the Angels for 5/$125. Wow.

#1012 bvharris

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:47 PM

Hamilton reportedly signs with the Angels for 5/$125. Wow.


Wow indeed. That's going to be one insane offense.

Those LA teams sure seem to be tossing around money of late.

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#1013 kill3r7

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:52 PM

Hamilton reportedly signs with the Angels for 5/$125. Wow.


If the Angels are able to acquire Dickey they might have a really nice team this year.
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#1014 pitfallharry219

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:53 PM

Holy shit. Trout, Pujols, Hamilton, Trumbo, Morales...

#1015 integralsmatic

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:20 PM

If the Angels are able to acquire Dickey they might have a really nice team this year.



Its going to take Bourjos and another top prospect to get him. It will really heat up if and when Anibal Sanchez signs.
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#1016 kill3r7

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

Its going to take Bourjos and another top prospect to get him. It will really heat up if and when Anibal Sanchez signs.


Trumbo, Trout and Hamilton makes Bourjos expendable. I guess most folks are thinking they go after Dickey to prevent the Rangers from getting him. Texas has to make a move NOW. My guess is they go after Upton.
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#1017 integralsmatic

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

Trumbo, Trout and Hamilton makes Bourjos expendable. I guess most folks are thinking they go after Dickey to prevent the Rangers from getting him. Texas has to make a move NOW. My guess is they go after Upton.


They are going to have to give up everything to get him. After they moved Bauer and acquired Gregorio, Towers has no interest in moving Upton anymore.
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#1018 CaseyRyback

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

The second half of last season was so terrible that I am kind of glad the Rangers didn't resign him. He swung at so many shit pitches that it was unbelievable. Also don't think that lineup will give him any more protection to hide that. Beltre fucking murdered it the second half and he still stayed in the funk.

Until he is willing to lay off balls out of the zone he ain't worth 25 million over 5 years.

Put Kinsler in the OF and move Olt to 1B and rock out with that.

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#1019 kill3r7

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

They are going to have to give up everything to get him. After they moved Bauer and acquired Gregorio, Towers has no interest in moving Upton anymore.


I know Towers is unlikely to move Upton but Texas has some top notch prospects, including IMO the best young SS and SS prospect in the league. If nothing else, I hope they panic and maybe go after Granderson. As a Yankees fan I welcome this.

EDIT: I know they just got Gregorio but he is a glove first SS.
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#1020 Icegaryen

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:39 PM

I will be very pissed of if Yankees go after Bourjos or Trumbo.