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Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch


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#61 Msut77

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:55 PM

In other news, the black militia group wants to take the law into their own hands (looks like Zimmerman isn't the only cowboy in town) and take him in.

http://www.cbsnews.c...trayvon-martin/

Florida has that sweet, sweet castle doctrine and Zimmerman is licensed to carry. They should air the event on Pay-Per-View.


They can claim self defense after shooting him.
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#62 depascal22

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:30 PM

If black on white/brown/black crime isn't reported, then why are prisons crammed with minorities?

It makes absolutely no sense to go on a rant about minorities being given a "free pass" when the facts show that Blacks and Hispanics are over-represented in the prison population.

Oh that's right. No need to protest if "justice is served."

#63 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:32 PM

If black on white/brown/black crime isn't reported, then why are prisons crammed with minorities?

Oh, that's right. No need to protest if "justice is served."


Drug laws and other non-violent crimes.
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#64 depascal22

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:33 PM

Drug laws and other non-violent crimes.


Whites don't sell or transport drugs?

#65 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:38 PM

Whites don't sell or transport drugs?


They do, but minorities (especially blacks) are arrested and imprisoned at rates that are laughably out of proportion with their usage rates.
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#66 Soodmeg

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 11:43 PM

Guys can we bring this a little closer to the main topic. Seems to be flying off the handle here.

#67 Soodmeg

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:12 AM

All I want to hear is more detail on what happened from the time the 911 call was placed to the time he was shooting the kid.

You are in a car....he is walking....what happened in which you wound up out of the car in basically a backyard? Self defense? You were in the car....even if the kid started attacking you with skittles and a iced tea...you can just drive away...because you are in a car.

I need to know more about his version of the story, what possibly could the kid have done? Did he run over and pull you out of the car? If so what made him so angry that he would do such a thing. He was only like 40ft from his house, even the thugiest of thugs dont fight so close to their own homes.

Its like he is trying to convince me that 2 + 2 equals 97 and the cops are nodding their head in agreement.

#68 Purple Flames

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:54 AM

Guys can we bring this a little closer to the main topic. Seems to be flying off the handle here.


First time in the VS forum?

#69 pittpizza

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:24 AM

This thread is stupid.
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#70 IRHari

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:22 AM

Guys can we bring this a little closer to the main topic. Seems to be flying off the handle here.


Yeah, those assholes always get away...with changing the topic.

#71 Knoell

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:00 AM

Having a black person locked up or killed by white people isn't anything new, but when the inaction of the state allows the perpetrators to get away with it, that's the larger problem that we need to address. It's less about whites hating black people KKK style and more about how the system tells us that black lives are worth less than white ones. This is easily seen in death penalty statistics in which people that murder white people are sentenced to death twice as much as the murder of black people. I mean how the Fuck would anyone explain that when the race of the murderer has no effect on sentencing?


Interesting how this type of statistic is being treated as compelling evidence now.

#72 dmaul1114

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 02:34 PM

The feds are investigating the case now.

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

#73 dohdough

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:27 PM

Interesting how this type of statistic is being treated as compelling evidence now.

I'm pretty sure that you don't understand what you just quoted.

The feds are investigating the case now.

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

From what I've been reading, the Feds have no jurisdiction over the case in regards to charging and arresting Zimmerman for anything regarding the actual killing unless it was found that Martin's civil rights were violated. They certainly won't be able to do anything regarding the cops that are stonewalling the case.

The most interesting thing about the CNN article is that they're using the 1 drop rule now in regards to Zimmerman being multiracial.

#74 UncleBob

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:45 PM

The most interesting thing about the CNN article is that they're using the 1 drop rule now in regards to Zimmerman being multiracial.


Wow.
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#75 dmaul1114

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

Yeah, it's not a federal crime so they have no jurisdiction.

As far as I know they can just look into possibilities of corruption or discrimination by the police or prosecutors as there are things the feds can do with those sorts of wrongdoings by state/local law enforcement. But nothing they can do to the individual officers. Most that comes out of these types of things is ordering changes in departmental procedures, training policies etc. usually.

Edited by dmaul1114, 20 March 2012 - 04:43 PM.


#76 dohdough

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:28 PM

Holy Fuck balls. He was on the phone with his girlfriend while he was being pursued by Zimmerman.

http://abcnews.go.co...17#.T2iVZI5c8jV

#77 IRHari

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

Wow.


What is the 1 drop rule?

#78 Spokker

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:05 AM

If black on white/brown/black crime isn't reported, then why are prisons crammed with minorities?

Reported on the news versus being reported to police.

#79 Msut77

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:26 AM

Yeah, it's not a federal crime so they have no jurisdiction.

As far as I know they can just look into possibilities of corruption or discrimination by the police or prosecutors as there are things the feds can do with those sorts of wrongdoings by state/local law enforcement. But nothing they can do to the individual officers. Most that comes out of these types of things is ordering changes in departmental procedures, training policies etc. usually.


The law is terribly written, from what I read the police have botched even the minimum that is expected of them.
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#80 dohdough

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:00 AM

Reported on the news versus being reported to police.

So what's your fucking point then? Especially when black people are getting punished harsher than whites in the justice system? So what if black people commit racially biased crimes out of proportion to their numbers when whites still commit numerically more racially biased crimes? Like more than 3x as many. According to your own source, whites commited 4092 hate crimes while black people commited 1254. You're a fucking joke.

#81 Spokker

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:30 AM

Especially when black people are getting punished harsher than whites in the justice system?

They are, and for good reason.

http://www.dc.state..../9596/ii_2.html

This study is one of the few I've seen that fails to find that race determines the severity of punishments because they control for a lot of the things that affect sentencing.

Overall, the empirical evidence presented in detail in this section documents three primary conclusions:

Before examining any other factors, black offenders were more likely than white offenders to be sentenced to prison (Table 1). Within many offense groups, black offenders received longer prison sentences than white offenders (Table 2).

However, black offenders had higher rates of characteristics generally considered appropriate for higher rates of imprisonment and longer prison sentences (e.g., more serious crimes and more serious prior criminal records) (Table 3).

After taking into account relevant sentencing factors, race was not found to be an influential factor in determining either the decision to sentence an offender to prison (Table 4) or the length of prison sentences for those receiving a prison term (Table 5).


So you can certainly compare drug offenses between white and black offenders, but is the black offender more likely to have a gun around? Is the black drug offender more likely to be involved in intimidation and coercion? Is the black drug offender more likely to be involved with a gang? The evidence suggests that things like this may be going on.

Black offenders had higher overall sentencing guidelines points, which are a composite of the seriousness of the current primary crime, additional current crimes, prior criminal record, victim injury, supervision violation points, drug trafficking enhancements, and law enforcement protection enhancements. The average for total points was 30.7 for black offenders compared to 26.3 for white offenders -- a difference of 4.4 points, or 14.3%.



So what if black people commit racially biased crimes out of proportion to their numbers when whites still commit numerically more racially biased crimes? Like more than 3x as many. According to your own source, whites commited 4092 hate crimes while black people commited 1254. You're a fucking joke.


Whites commit more crimes simply because there are more of them running around, and if you consider that Latinos/Hispanics are lumped in with non-Hispanic whites a lot of the time despite differences in demographic characteristics (poverty, education, etc.), whites probably do even better than the statistics would suggest.

If we are talking about hate crimes specifically, well, vandalism involving a racial epithet is considered a hate crime and reflected in the statistics, while a crime in which four African Americans raped and killed a white couple is just another murder if it cannot be determined to be racially motivated. No hate was involved when the quartet poured chemicals down Ms. Christian's throat.

The news media largely ignored this story.

Edited by Spokker, 21 March 2012 - 03:43 AM.


#82 dohdough

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:03 AM

They are, and for good reason.

Holy Fuck balls. Like what good reason? That black offenders are inherently more dangerous?

http://www.dc.state..../9596/ii_2.html

This study is one of the few I've seen that fails to find that race determines the severity of punishments because they control for a lot of the things that affect sentencing.

I bet you didn't even read the study.

So you can certainly compare drug offenses between white and black offenders, but is the black offender more likely to have a gun around? Is the black drug offender more likely to be involved in intimidation and coercion? Is the black drug offender more likely to be involved with a gang? The evidence suggests that things like this may be going on.

Your quote only answers the question of sentencing, which is based on what they were convicted of AFTER a trial by jury. The inequity doesn't start with sentencing, but before there's even an actual arrest.

Whites commit more crimes simply because there are more of them running around, and if you consider that Latinos/Hispanics are lumped in with non-Hispanic whites a lot of the time despite differences in demographic characteristics (poverty, education, etc.), whites probably do even better than the statistics would suggest.

Then WHY are black men disproportionately represented in the justice system if the only explanation for whites commiting more crimes is that there are just more of them? Did black men just suddenly decide to become criminals in the goddamn 70's or something?

And will you please learn what social construction is and apply it to race? Fuck! It's like the difference between white-Hispanic and non-white Hispanic throws your brain into a goddamn loop or something. It's based on goddamn skin color and nothing else you imbecile. Or are you going to play dumb and say that you've never heard of "passing for white?"

If we are talking about hate crimes specifically, well, vandalism involving a racial epithet is considered a hate crime and reflected in the statistics, while a crime in which four African Americans raped and killed a white couple is just another murder if it cannot be determined to be racially motivated. No hate was involved when the quartet poured chemicals down Ms. Christian's throat.

The news media largely ignored this story.

The media ignores a lot of fucking stories. Especially when it comes to missing black or Latino children. Again, what is your fucking point beyond saying that no one covers black on everyone-type crimes? Was Dahmer commiting hate crimes for trying to become the UN of serial killers?

#83 soulvengeance

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:58 AM

I didn't listen to the tapes, so I don't know if this is true or not, but I thought I would drop this here, possible that he muttered a racial slur.

http://gma.yahoo.com...--abc-news.html
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#84 UncleBob

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:17 AM

I didn't listen to the tapes, so I don't know if this is true or not, but I thought I would drop this here, possible that he muttered a racial slur.

http://gma.yahoo.com...--abc-news.html


Short of some kind of editing to the soundclip, which I seriously don't even consider a possibility, I don't think it's fair to say it's "possible" he said it.

http://www.wftv.com/...explicit/vGbyc/

Sounds pretty clear to me..
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#85 62t

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:23 AM

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#86 Soodmeg

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:46 AM

So seriously, when is the guy going to be at least brought in for questioning? I really dont see what is going on here. The other thing is, where is this guys lawyer at? It seems as though he doesnt even have the typical "my lawyer is invoking xxxxx so you cant arrest him," this is just a regular guy who is basically saying Fuck off to the police.

At this point if it was indeed self defense and he is so sure of it he might as well voluntarily come in for questioning, its better than hiding in a bunker for a month.

#87 Clak

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:21 PM

What amazes me is the complete refusal of the police to admit they've made any mistakes, despite the numerous ones they obviously made. It seems to me that the police are trying to cover things up for the guy.
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#88 chiwii

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:54 PM

So seriously, when is the guy going to be at least brought in for questioning? I really dont see what is going on here. The other thing is, where is this guys lawyer at? It seems as though he doesnt even have the typical "my lawyer is invoking xxxxx so you cant arrest him," this is just a regular guy who is basically saying Fuck off to the police.

At this point if it was indeed self defense and he is so sure of it he might as well voluntarily come in for questioning, its better than hiding in a bunker for a month.


The police seem to be done with the case. I don't think they've asked Zimmerman to come in for additional questioning.

#89 eldergamer

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:35 PM

So seriously, when is the guy going to be at least brought in for questioning? I really dont see what is going on here. The other thing is, where is this guys lawyer at? It seems as though he doesnt even have the typical "my lawyer is invoking xxxxx so you cant arrest him," this is just a regular guy who is basically saying Fuck off to the police.

At this point if it was indeed self defense and he is so sure of it he might as well voluntarily come in for questioning, its better than hiding in a bunker for a month.


Supposadely it's going to a grand jury, so he's going to need to be brought in soon.

Also, agreed. The police are definately holding that blue liine of "self-defense, we don't need to do anything" regardless of facts to the contrary.

How can it possibly be self defense when you're following and going after the guy? It's nuts.

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#90 dohdough

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:46 PM

Supposadely it's going to a grand jury, so he's going to need to be brought in soon.

Also, agreed. The police are definately holding that blue liine of "self-defense, we don't need to do anything" regardless of facts to the contrary.

How can it possibly be self defense when you're following and going after the guy? It's nuts.

I really hate to even hint at white-knighting those cops and not that this really matters, but they don't have to do anything more than ask if it was self-defense because of the "Stand your ground" law in place. Since the only witness is Zimmerman, they have(more like choose) to take his word for it even if his account doesn't jive with his calls to non-emergency 911.

There's so much fucked up shit going on with this case that the only conclusion that shouldn't be in question is that Martin is the only victim here. You have a fucked up law in a fucked up place with fucked up cops and a fucked up shooter.