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#10111 Genocidal

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:53 AM

Adding a non-Steam game or application does not keep the game patched to the current version and ready to play when you want to play it. That's a huge convenience feature that plenty of people, myself included, are willing to accept Steam DRM for.
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#10112 MysterD

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:54 AM

Nothing is "wrong" with Amazon. They are a fine retailer, offering a great selection of products at competitive prices with excellent service. This is why they are starting to dominate the retail sector, taking huge chunks of traditional stores business (Best Buy, etc.) and even scaring progressive online services like Netflix. I shop at Amazon all the time, more than enough to justify my Prime membership.

It's simply that many of us use Steam as our primary "platform" for PC gaming and prefer not to keep track of games in other ways. I was a PC gamer for years - cut my teeth in the 386 days with Sierra and Lucasarts adventures and joystick flight sims and shooters. I kept playing on PC until around when Half Life 2 was released in 2004. Shortly thereafter, consoles began to offer a superior platform. One place to keep track of your achievements, friends, and digital purchases.

I stopped playing PC games largely because it was more complicated and difficult to get games to work and to keep track of the install files, patches, etc. Consoles handles all of that for me. They also gave me a nice digital library that I could quickly load any game from. The PC attempts at doing this were clunky at best and never received mass adoption. As an adult with a job, family, and community commitments, I don't have the time or patience to do anything other than what consoles allowed me to do, which was just play a game.

I think a lot of people drifted away from PC gaming when I did, and for many of the same reasons. When I returned to PC gaming a couple of years ago, it was due ONLY to Steam having matured as a platform. It auto-patches my games, almost every game on it works on my PC, has friends list and chat, etc., etc. Not to mention the insane prices on the Steam store and from places like Amazon for Steamworks titles.

PC gaming was on the verge of dying due to the easier, more accessible experience of console gaming. It is back now in a big way, and I think that Valve and their Steam platform are owed most of the credit. They have taken a fragmented market and consolidated it, giving PC gamers a place to centralize. Oh, and they've done it right, with consumer-friendly policies and reducing piracy along the way.

I believe PC *is* the superior platform - it always was from a technical perspective, and now it has the central platform to back it up. I personally support Steam not just for the fact that it's easier for me, but because I believe it is responsible for the current health of PC gaming. This is why I despise EA's Origin, UBISoft's UPLay, and other similar blatant attempts to cut into the market-share that Steam has built up. Those competing services will only serve to fragment the market again, not to mention make the PC gaming experience a difficult and frustrating one (which client is this in? what patches do I need?).


A problem w/ Steam can be modding games; especially older games - which is obvious w/ games like Vampire: Bloodlines. See their V:BL forums there.

If you are running Win Vista or Win 7 or above, you're going to have to use Wesp's patch or Tess's True Patch, which actually replaces your EXE and fixes things there internally - which is really something Steam isn't normally too fond off. You have to turn off Steam Community Features and auto-update, just to get this OLDER game going right. Do the modding and don't turn-off some of those Steam features - Steam will patch you backwards to the last Official Troika-version (1.2, I think it was) of the game - and it was still broken here and there in that state.

I don't have to deal w/ the above-said garbage. I bought the game on disc (Non-Steam version) long ago - and can avoid any Steam-specific weirdness that can happen w/ owning the Steam version of the game.

Also, if you're going to mod the life out of a Steam game - think like Skyrim and Dead Island - you really should back-up the latest clean official version of your ENTIRE game before you mod-up. Why? Just in case you mod the game and somehow they (the developers) officially update the game and it breaks your game; or just in case you somehow break something trying to mod it up. If you don't - you're going to have to re-download the entire game in a clean state.

Most of UPlay's recent games (since Rainbow Six: Vegas), the game checks for updates when you boot the game up. Driver: San Francisco and AC: Revelations does this.

Edited by MysterD, 13 September 2012 - 03:10 AM.


#10113 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:57 AM

i dont keep all my games installed...im lazy...i'd rather use a download servive like origin or steam...im lazy....most people are lazy...make things easier and you sell more...its a pretty simple concept..

its not that i dont agree with you, im just too lazy to be bothered with creating folders adding things and the like....

pass the ice cream.


If your games aren't installed then you obviously don't care about.. using them.. I keep all my games installed in a 1TB hard drive, it's no bother. I bought it for $60, it works great..
It's WAY more work to re-download and re-install games.

To clarify, I have my Steam client on a 256 GB SSD, so I couldn't fit all my games on it. Games I don't want "installed" I just grab the folder contents from my steam folder and throw them onto my 1 TB drive, if I ever want to play them I copy them right back to my steam games folder, literally takes minutes for even large games, much less time than re-downloading.

For non-steam games, I just install them to my 1TB and leave them there, it's not like I will run out of space relatively soon.

There's lazy and there's illogical. If you are too lazy to "be bothered with creating folders adding things and the like" you aren't too lazy to uninstall, redownload and reinstall to play a game, which could take a sizable amount of time instead of minutes to drag one folder from one drive to another? I guess I value my time more.. but then again I'm not too lazy to do basic things like that and if I was I would be missing out on ton's of great things that you can do with PC games, like modding. If someone is too lazy to do something like that maybe they should just play on a console- that's really easy.. well they are probably too lazy to get up and put in a new game, so maybe not.

#10114 Corpekata

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:58 AM

You're attacking a straw man. Many people when they are talking about wanting Steam (or Origin, or Desura) for ease of use are referring to installation, uninstalls, and things like patching, and are not really that focused on things like having the Steam Overlay (though that's nice). Especially when it comes to something like Strategy First or 1c packs in which you're probably going to get a decent chunk of hard drive space used, and then quickly probably uninstall a lot that you downloaded because it is probably terrible.

#10115 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:01 AM

By "Amazon is crushing Steam" I think they meant price-wise. ;)

Steam will always be the bigger DD service, unless Amazon ups their game and comes out with a bangin' client with all of the features that Steam currently has. We all know that won't happen any time soon though, since Steam has taken quite a while to develop and get where it is now.


Plus, why would Amazon bother making their own client when they know people can buy their games from Amazon, and just put them into Steam's client? Whether its steam code or not, lol.

#10116 MysterD

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:05 AM

I think the best market Amazon can exploit is DRM-free games. Particularly old games that are not on Steam. It probably going to compete with GoG (who I like but feel they need to discount their game more) but I would buy a old game that DRM-free rather than a one with Steam DRM (or worst multiple DRM, like GTA4 which had Steam, GFWL & Rockstar Social Club)


About old games being re-released over Amazon DVG, GOG, and other places - they are often already UPDATED likely to their newest version! It's also easier to mod games when you don't have Steam or any other DRM in your way - especially if you need to replace a EXE file.

Plus - who the heck wants DRM wrapped around an old game? There's no need for DRM to be wrapped around games that are old, cheap, and likely need to be tinkered w/ in some fashion to get running on modern systems.

One of my biggest pet peeves is dev's and pub's that use multiple DRM's on Steam-version. NO NEED FOR THIS. The problem is Steam is forcing their DRM on every game (for the most part). I understand the dev's and pub's want to be lazy & save money especially if their game on console uses XBL b/c porting it to G4WL is easy, fast, and painless - but honestly, G4WL is garbage and needs to be abandoned by dev's and pub's releasing games on the PC, since Microsoft doesn't want to properly support & update it. When Microsoft finally decides to change their mind and actually support G4WL, then maybe I'll feel different about G4WL.

#10117 Greyghost

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:06 AM

Adding a non-Steam game or application does not keep the game patched to the current version and ready to play when you want to play it. That's a huge convenience feature that plenty of people, myself included, are willing to accept Steam DRM for.


Nor does it help you if you have just upgraded to a new PC or HD or reformatted and have to go 'Okay I got that game from Amazon, and this one from Gamersgate, and wait, did I get it from Greenmangaming? I got something from there. And I swear I got something from GetGamesGo, and Gamestop, and what about direct2drive gamefly, oh and there were those games I got straight from the developer again..etc etc etc'.

DRM free works fine if you have a few games and/or stick to one store. The whole thing falls apart if you have a crap ton of games which bundles like this encourage, not that I am complaining here!

The more games you have the more it becomes convenient to have them tied to as few accounts as possible with a client that organizes and updates the for you.

If you just want to buy a few games and only get the ones you really want and know you will play right away and are happy with DRM free OR if you are super duper organized and on top of things and have files documenting where everything is that is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. There is no need to be defensive or offensive about it. NO ONE IS BASHING YOU.

At the same time if others among us have a lot of games and don't want to be fussed organizing, updating, figuring out where we got them all when we need to re-download them etc etc THAT IS A VALID CHOICE AS WELL.

It's a preference. Neither is wrong and it would be nice if we could respect each other's preferences even if we don't agree with them.

#10118 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:08 AM

Adding a non-Steam game or application does not keep the game patched to the current version and ready to play when you want to play it. That's a huge convenience feature that plenty of people, myself included, are willing to accept Steam DRM for.


I have literally never had a problem with this.. ever. If a game ever needs to be updated, the actual game should tell you when you play it, usually you just say "update now" it does it, then boom you can go back to playing and launching it through steam. Most game patches don't take very long to download, so it's not like it's a considerable problem especially since most games get patched to a final version within what, maybe a year? online games are different, but most games I downloaded from Amazon were either up to date and needed no more patches since I bought them or had to be patched after I downloaded them and haven't since.

I can't actually think of any game I have added to steam library that was drm free that I ever needed to patch.. maybe Witcher 2.. maybe it would if I went to play it again, but I don't think I ever had to patch it during the time frame I actually played it. Either way, I still think thats a real STRETCH of an argument.

#10119 juanjava

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:11 AM

I think the best market Amazon can exploit is DRM-free games. Particularly old games that are not on Steam. It probably going to compete with GoG (who I like but feel they need to discount their game more) but I would buy a old game that DRM-free rather than a one with Steam DRM (or worst multiple DRM, like GTA4 which had Steam, GFWL & Rockstar Social Club)


There are A LOT of games uncovered on many digital systems. The Wheel of Time, Revenant, Tresspaser, Heavy Gear 1 & 2, Dark Vengeance, Blade Runner, Gunman Chronicles, Drakan, Urban Chaos... and the list can go on and on and on...

I just recently bought Abomination: The Nemesis Project from a sale at GamersGate. I had it on retail but the CD got scratched... also, I don't want to carry CDs/DVDs. I didn't knew they were selling that game until it was listed on sale. Insta-buy

#10120 Idiotekque

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:13 AM

A problem w/ Steam can be modding games; especially older games - which is obvious w/ games like Vampire: Bloodlines. See their V:BL forums there.

If you are running Win Vista or Win 7 or above, you're going to have to use Wesp's patch or Tess's True Patch, which actually replaces your EXE and fixes things there internally - which is really something Steam isn't normally too fond off. You have to turn off Steam Community Features and auto-update, just to get this OLDER game going right. Do the modding and don't turn-off some of those Steam features - Steam will patch you backwards to the last Official Troika-version (1.2, I think it was) of the game - and it was still broken here and there in that state.

I don't have to deal w/ the above-said garbage. I bought the game on disc (Non-Steam version) long ago - and can avoid any Steam-specific weirdness that can happen w/ owning the Steam version of the game.

Also, if you're going to mod the life out of a Steam game - think like Skyrim and Dead Island - you really should back-up the latest clean official version of your ENTIRE game before you mod-up. Why? Just in case you mod the game and somehow they (the developers) officially update the game and it breaks your game; or just in case you somehow break something trying to mod it up. If you don't - you're going to have to re-download the entire game in a clean state.

Most of UPlay's recent games (since Rainbow Six: Vegas), the game checks for updates when you boot the game up. Driver: San Francisco and AC: Revelations does this.

Very good points, which is why I have VTM:B DRM-free(ish) through GameFly, as well as Fallout 3 GOTY (although I have that on Steam as well).

It's funny though how we're too "lazy" to deal with adding non-Steam games while we spend hours and hours on finding deals on games... lol.

Terraria - $1 (Steam),  X3: Terran Conflict - $2 (Steam)Fable: The Lost Chapters - $2 (Steam)

 

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#10121 Corpekata

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:17 AM

The Vampire point is grossly inflated. The game itself already requires most people to do a lot of steps to get it to run well already. The step described by MysterD takes like 2 seconds, which is pretty small in the world of getting that janky bug ridden mess to run well.

Fallout 3 makes no sense either. That's a GFWL game, and the Steam DRM has no affect on it. There's a reason why it's much easier to mod Fallout New Vegas and not lose access to save files over Fallout 3. Mod a game 10 hours in that has script changes in New Vegas, you're fine. Do the same to 3, which GFWL detects as a cheat program, and your save files are no longer accessible.

#10122 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:18 AM

Nor does it help you if you have just upgraded to a new PC or HD or reformatted and have to go 'Okay I got that game from Amazon, and this one from Gamersgate, and wait, did I get it from Greenmangaming? I got something from there. And I swear I got something from GetGamesGo, and Gamestop, and what about direct2drive gamefly, oh and there were those games I got straight from the developer again..etc etc etc'.

DRM free works fine if you have a few games and/or stick to one store. The whole thing falls apart if you have a crap ton of games which bundles like this encourage, not that I am complaining here!

The more games you have the more it becomes convenient to have them tied to as few accounts as possible with a client that organizes and updates the for you.

If you just want to buy a few games and only get the ones you really want and know you will play right away and are happy with DRM free OR if you are super duper organized and on top of things and have files documenting where everything is that is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. There is no need to be defensive or offensive about it. NO ONE IS BASHING YOU.

At the same time if others among us have a lot of games and don't want to be fussed organizing, updating, figuring out where we got them all when we need to re-download them etc etc THAT IS A VALID CHOICE AS WELL.

It's a preference. Neither is wrong and it would be nice if we could respect each other's preferences even if we don't agree with them.


OR you could just.. keep all your games backed up on another Hard Drive, external or internal. So you could easily transport all of them to any new pc/harddrive/whatever. Your argument is correct, if the person is too lazy to do something as simple as that.

I just don't see why people want to argue "don't sell drm-free games, only sell steam games because I am too lazy to do anything on my own, I need Steam to hand feed me my games and take care of everything else as well"

If people are only buying Steam games or only want to buy steam games, that's fine, but why are they CONSTANTLY letting everyone know on here, or complaining that a game doesn't have Steam DRM? If it doesn't then move along, only shop at the Steam Store, etc. etc. etc.

Meanwhile I will enjoy saving money and getting a greater amount and variety of games by using different avenues and getting the best deal. I don't go around the Steam thread bragging about that, I don't go around bragging about that on this thread, but people are always quick to say "oh it not's steam- it SUCKS!" "I only buy steam games, just wanted to let everybody know how cool that makes me, lol" "oh that games non-steam? lol no thanks, it's pretty much unplayable I mean, how do you even know where its installed lol? how do you even update it lol? how do you even remember that you own it lol?"

People make the darndest arguments sometimes.

#10123 MysterD

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:22 AM

EDIT: I think there's too much praise for the "Add a non-Steam game" feature. The point isn't the screenshots, social features, and overlay; it's the auto-updates and ease of manageability (install/uninstall) that makes Steam the ideal platform. However, the "Add a non-Steam game" feature adds nothing, IMHO.

Adding a Non-Steam Game is an important feature, IMHO. It lets other gamers and Friends KNOW what you're playing on Steam - even if you are not playing a Steam-version game. That's the point of it.

Examples:
--If you say bought Borderlands from Steam, yet I own it from Retail. If I add my Non-Steam Borderlands to Steam and you bought it from Steam and you're my Friends - well, we can contact each other and get ourselves on GameSpy (since BL uses that for middleware for MP-play) and get playing together!
--Do you think people are using Origin for its Community? I know I don't! If I don't need to run Origin to run a game, it ain't open!

Maybe I'm playing some off-the-wall game I bought from Gamersgate like White Gold or The Precursors. Maybe, a Friend contacts me and is curious "Hey, Derick - what the hell is this game you're playing?"

However, while I agree that Steam is great, I couldn't care less about where my games are, unless GOG has the game, in which case I'll automatically go with GOG for the extras/goodies they throw in, as well as wanting to support the good they're doing.

Exactly.

I'm a computer science major, a student, so I have time to dick around and waste countless hours on making a spreadsheet to keep track of all of my games and implement tons of useless shit that I have there just to satisfy my curiosity; I actually really enjoy doing it too, which helps immensely.

I just FORCE my games to be installed to a folder named AFTER what service the game forces or where I bought the game from. EASY to keep track of.
I don't do that for Steam games, though - though, it might change, w/ the new workaround going around in the new Steam Beta.

The point is, although there is a vast majority of people who only game on the PC with Steam, I believe the main purpose of PC gaming is customizability, period. You get to mod whatever the Fuck you want, patch your game with nude patches, make in-game graphics look incredibly realistic, or whatever the hell else your mind can cook up. You get to do what you want with whatever you want, given that you have and want to take the time to do so.

100% agreed.

I get that there are a lot of people who don't care enough to/don't have the time to dedicate to manage games across multiple DD's, but PC gaming never died, or even got anywhere close to it for that matter, it just dwindled down to those who had the time/wanted to take the time to game on the PC. I'll always be a PC gamer, maybe that's just me, and while I agree that Steam has done an incredible job getting the majority back on the wagon, the minority of us were always there, and will always be there.

Why the Fuck did I even write this? I have no idea, but I felt like doing it. ;)

Also, this isn't a flame, and I don't mean for it to be; don't let the Shaq-fu's fool you. <3

PC gaming has never died or even come close to collapse. PC gaming lost NPD sales at retail b/c Steam and other digital sales rose. Now, it's pretty much digital running the show of where to buy PC games. I hardly see any PC games at my local B&M GameStop. B&M Best Buy - sure, they have a few racks of PC games, but nowhere like they USED to, a few years back.

I go where the prices go, normally.
If say Gamersgate is selling a game cheaper, they're going to get my money.
GOG is hard to resist, b/c of their DRM-FREE nature and often b/c of the extra they throw in - especially during 50% off or better sales.
Often, I wind-up trying to buy a version of a game w/ the least amount of DRM around it, as well.

#10124 Greyghost

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:22 AM

OMGoblins why don't you stop arguing with people and let them do what they want to do their own way even if it is different from yours?

No one is telling you what games to buy and how to organize your collection and I expect the same courtesy and respect from you without stooping to insults!

People make the darndest arguments sometimes.


Apparently.

#10125 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:23 AM

The Vampire point is grossly inflated. The game itself already requires most people to do a lot of steps to get it to run well already. The step described by MysterD takes like 2 seconds, which is pretty small in the world of getting that janky bug ridden mess to run well.

Fallout 3 makes no sense either. That's a GFWL game, and the Steam DRM has no affect on it. There's a reason why it's much easier to mod Fallout New Vegas and not lose access to save files over Fallout 3. Mod a game 10 hours in that has script changes in New Vegas, you're fine. Do the same to 3, which GFWL detects as a cheat program, and your save files are no longer accessible.


It is annoying, but I agree. I mean I do those two steps for any game I plan on modding thats a steam game.. ex: Skyrim and Fallout New Vegas, I have both modified SO heavily and it's almost a given you need to disable auto-update and steam overlay to avoid any problems.

But Steam overlay isn't even a feature I ever use.. so idk why that would be a bad thing to not be able to access it.

#10126 spoderman

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:26 AM

omgoblins, this may not make much sense to you.. but I prefer having most of my games on Steam because I like having them all linked to my Steam account, and the client. It's the same reason I prefer using the Desura client/account rather than having DRM-free downloads with zero association to a client. I'd even rather have Origin. They all have 3 things in common: the ability to tie all of your games to one account.

I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way. Amazon is great, but if you're not getting a Steam/Origin key from them, the downloads are just downloads. I think lint21 said it best. Steam is the closest thing to a console like experience that we're gonna get, and it's why many people use it. If it weren't for Steam, I don't think there'd be as much of a userbase for PC games.

If Amazon had a client similar to Desura with no actual DRM, it would make a WORLD of difference and would probably help sales. The thing is, if you don't constantly support your client or have the userbase to support it, it's gonna fail. I think Amazon has enough support for a client to be successful.

#10127 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:29 AM

Adding a Non-Steam Game is an important feature, IMHO. It lets other gamers and Friends KNOW what you're playing on Steam - even if you are not playing a Steam-version game. That's the point of it.

Examples:
--If you say bought Borderlands from Steam, yet I own it from Retail. If I add my Non-Steam Borderlands to Steam and you bought it from Steam and you're my Friends - well, we can contact each other and get ourselves on GameSpy (since BL uses that for middleware for MP-play) and get playing together!
--Do you think people are using Origin for its Community? I know I don't! If I don't need to run Origin to run a game, it ain't open!

Maybe I'm playing some off-the-wall game I bought from Gamersgate like White Gold or The Precursors. Maybe, a Friend contacts me and is curious "Hey, Derick - what the hell is this game you're playing?"


Exactly.


I just FORCE my games to be installed to a folder named AFTER what service the game forces or where I bought the game from. EASY to keep track of.
I don't do that for Steam games, though - though, it might change, w/ the new workaround going around in the new Steam Beta.


100% agreed.


PC gaming has never died or even come close to collapse. PC gaming lost NPD sales at retail b/c Steam and other digital sales rose. Now, it's pretty much digital running the show of where to buy PC games. I hardly see any PC games at my local GameStop. Best Buy - sure, they have a few racks of PC games, but nowhere like they USED to, a few years back.

I go where the prices go, normally.
If say Gamersgate is selling a game cheaper, they're going to get my money.
GOG is hard to resist, b/c of their DRM-FREE nature and often b/c of the extra they throw in - especially during 50% off or better sales.
Often, I wind-up trying to buy a version of a game w/ the least amount of DRM around it, as well.


I totally agree dude, especially about the social aspect of steam and being able to incorporate non-steam games into steam is huge. Especially when I can save $$$ buying it from somewhere else that has a game for 75% and maybe it's a game Steam will only discount during the big sales 2x a year or even not really discount it at all. Like Kingdoms of Amalur, I would probably never get this game from Steam because it's probably never going to go on sale there. Witcher 2 I got for really cheap from GOG, whereas it was on sale during the Steam summer sale, it wasn't near the same discount.

#10128 Severose

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:31 AM

Spoiler


Yeah, I agree, it's really useful if you're in it for the social features (overlay), but it does nothing otherwise for someone like me who doesn't really care if people know what I'm playing. =P

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#10129 - Glenn -

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:33 AM

ARGH!!! I HATE NON-STEAM GAMES!!!! I MEAN SERIOUSLY IT'S SO HARD TO KEEP TRACK OF ALL MY GAMES, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO MAKE SHORTCUTS ON MY DESKTOP, POSSIBLY IN A FOLDER TO SAVE SPACE!!!!!!!!
I ALSO WILL NEVER USE THE **STEAM** FEATURE UNDER the Games tab Games>Add a Non-Steam Game to My Library NEVER I SAY!!!!! I CANNOT TAKE THE 5 SECONDS TO CLICK ON THAT BUTTON, SELECT THE GAME FROM THE NICE LIST THAT STEAM GENERATES AND POOF HAVE IT IN MY STEAM LIBRARY!!!!!!!! YES IT EVEN SHOWS ALL GAMES ACROSS ALL YOUR DRIVES, EVEN SHOWS OTHER APPLICATIONS!!! WHAT A FREAKING INCONVENIENCE!!!!! ARGGHH!!!!!!!


Seriously though, all you Steamheads that say "omgz I wont buy non-steam game cause I can't keep track of where they are!!" are ridiculous, since Steam gives you an EASY option to add ANY GAME OR APPLICATION to your STEAM LIBRARY in SECONDS!! I have ALL my ORIGIN games in my STEAM LIBRARY, I also launch itunes from my steam library, launch all my DRM FREE games from my steam library. Like I said it finds ALL .exe's from ALL drives so it literally takes SECONDS to set up and use! If you are crying because you don't have enough space for your games, then quit spending money on games and get a 1TB drive for $60-$100 and have enough space for games for the next 5 years!

I see a lot of excuses being thrown about, either there is a ton of ignorance about how easy and seamlessly these tools work, or there is just an abundance of laziness. If it's the first case then rejoice! There is an easy way to have your cake and eat it through your steam library as well! If it's the second case, then whatever, you can watch me eat my cake I guess.. oh and p.s. our steam library > your steam library, sucker!


You're kind of missing the whole point of Steam taking care of updating the game for you, which is the primary reason I prefer it. I hate searching for patches. I am sick of looking around trying to find what I need to get a game to run.

Also, since I use 3 computers, I like the convenience of having things all in one place. It's much easier to grab my laptop, load up steam, scroll through my games list, decide to play something and hit download.

#10130 MysterD

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:35 AM

Very good points, which is why I have VTM:B DRM-free(ish) through GameFly, as well as Fallout 3 GOTY (although I have that on Steam as well).

It's funny though how we're too "lazy" to deal with adding non-Steam games while we spend hours and hours on finding deals on games... lol.


I think what I love most about Steam is the community features. It's just awesome. Most other services wish they had the great community Steam has.

I add Non-Steam games here and there - especially if it's something not currently supported by XFire and/or Raptr.

I have most of my games on Steam catergorized (either by series, dev, publisher, or however I find it easiest to find it). I purposely keep Non-Steam games on the bottom of my list, categorizing them as "ZZZ-Non-Steam Games."

#10131 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:35 AM

omgoblins, this may not make much sense to you.. but I prefer having most of my games on Steam because I like having them all linked to my Steam account, and the client. It's the same reason I prefer using the Desura client/account rather than having DRM-free downloads with zero association to a client. I'd even rather have Origin. They all have 3 things in common: the ability to tie all of your games to one account.

I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way. Amazon is great, but if you're not getting a Steam/Origin key from them, the downloads are just downloads. I think lint21 said it best. Steam is the closest thing to a console like experience that we're gonna get, and it's why many people use it. If it weren't for Steam, I don't think there'd be as much of a userbase for PC games.

If Amazon had a client similar to Desura with no actual DRM, it would make a WORLD of difference and would probably help sales. The thing is, if you don't constantly support your client or have the userbase to support it, it's gonna fail. I think Amazon has enough support for a client to be successful.


That does make sense, I enjoy the "achievements" aspect of Steam, but it's not something I value over cash. I even like using Raptr to keep track of ALL my achievements. I would love if Amazon had a client like steam, I am not against clients at all because I LOVE steams client and LOVE Amazon's pricing and bundling strategy. I just don't like seeing people trying to bash Amazon sales because the games they offer aren't all steam.

This might not make sense, but I prefer DRM free because I can use it on my gaming desktop, at the same time I can put it on my laptop, at the same time I can put certain games on my son's computer (like the disney games) or certain games on my girlfriends computer or my HTPC in the entertainment room. With all my games strictly on steam, this wouldn't be possible- I could only have steam open on one of these machines at a time. That's why I prefer DRM free more than anything.

#10132 MysterD

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:39 AM

It's much easier to grab my laptop, load up steam, scroll through my games list, decide to play something and hit download.


Even if the game is say...
28 GB like DA:O - Ultimate?
24 GB like RAGE?
35 GB like Max Payne 3?

I'd say it's MUCH faster to back-up the game to an external USB HDD;
plug the external into whatever PC;
and then install the HUGE game from the external.

#10133 spoderman

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:41 AM

That does make sense, I enjoy the "achievements" aspect of Steam, but it's not something I value over cash. I even like using Raptr to keep track of ALL my achievements. I would love if Amazon had a client like steam, I am not against clients at all because I LOVE steams client and LOVE Amazon's pricing and bundling strategy. I just don't like seeing people trying to bash Amazon sales because the games they offer aren't all steam.

This might not make sense, but I prefer DRM free because I can use it on my gaming desktop, at the same time I can put it on my laptop, at the same time I can put certain games on my son's computer (like the disney games) or certain games on my girlfriends computer or my HTPC in the entertainment room. With all my games strictly on steam, this wouldn't be possible- I could only have steam open on one of these machines at a time. That's why I prefer DRM free more than anything.


Yeah I can see how DRM-free downloads would be a huge advantage in your case. If I used multiple computers I'd probably feel the same way. That's what I like about Desura, you've got the option to use the client or download from the site.. and in both cases you don't need the client to run the games. It's still not quite as developed as Steam is though, it's kinda buggy.

#10134 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:41 AM

You're kind of missing the whole point of Steam taking care of updating the game for you, which is the primary reason I prefer it. I hate searching for patches. I am sick of looking around trying to find what I need to get a game to run.

Also, since I use 3 computers, I like the convenience of having things all in one place. It's much easier to grab my laptop, load up steam, scroll through my games list, decide to play something and hit download.


Like I said, most games downloaded from Amazon and elsewhere are fully patched from the point you download them, with older games you shouldn't need to patch them again since most patching support stops after a year or two, I would assume thats about the average? I have no problem when I open a game and it tells me a new patch is out, most new games make that process very easily and automatic, I select update- it downloads and installs, usually even has an option when its done to launch the game again- then you start playing.

I have never had to patch any game except Skyrim and New Vegas, because I played those for an extended period of time and they are both steamworks and I actually disabled the auto update. Same with Total War Shogun 2, again Steamworks.

Maybe its just because I don't play a lot of different games for long enough periods where I would need to patch it multiple times, but I have never had a problem with it.

Do you or anyone else have any specific examples where this was a bad problem? maybe that would help me not miss the point :)

#10135 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:44 AM

Yeah I can see how DRM-free downloads would be a huge advantage in your case. If I used multiple computers I'd probably feel the same way. That's what I like about Desura, you've got the option to use the client or download from the site.. and in both cases you don't need the client to run the games. It's still not quite as developed as Steam is though, it's kinda buggy.


I've never used Desura, mostly because I know nothing about it :/

I know my situation probably isn't the norm, but I'm basically playing "IT support" for a number of people and purchasing/installing everything myself, so it's nice to be able to buy it all in one place, only have one steam account, but still accomplish what I need.

I TOTALLY understand why people would only want to use Steam, it's very convenient, but I don't think people should rage against DRM Free games, because it's a good thing to have BOTH offered. I loved how Amazon was/is offering both versions so people with different preferences can both enjoy it their way.

It's kind of like the toilet paper roll facing front or back, in the end we both use them for the same thing! lol

#10136 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:46 AM

Even if the game is say...
28 GB like DA:O - Ultimate?
24 GB like RAGE?
35 GB like Max Payne 3?

I'd say it's MUCH faster to back-up the game to an external USB HDD;
plug the external into whatever PC;
and then install the HUGE game from the external.


Yeah.. especially DA:O Ultimate... omg I still cringe because I had to re-download that game 3 times because Origin kept corrupting it!! same with Battlefield 3, I got such bad dl speeds from Origin client it made it feel like forever and ending up with a corrupted download was such a bummer.

#10137 MysterD

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:46 AM

Do you or anyone else have any specific examples where this was a bad problem? maybe that would help me not miss the point :)

Patching-up Sacred 2: Gold Edition properly can be a royal pain-in-the-butt.
There's a lot of patching and weirdness, before you can get that game going right.

I ain't tried it, but I've heard and it's well documented that patching Companies of Heroes (Non-Steam) can be a pain b/c there's so many patches to run...
That might be one of the few games, I might actually rather have over Steam - even though I own COH + Op Fronts already from Retail...

I've never used Desura, mostly because I know nothing about it :/

I know my situation probably isn't the norm, but I'm basically playing "IT support" for a number of people and purchasing/installing everything myself, so it's nice to be able to buy it all in one place, only have one steam account, but still accomplish what I need.

I TOTALLY understand why people would only want to use Steam, it's very convenient, but I don't think people should rage against DRM Free games, because it's a good thing to have BOTH offered. I loved how Amazon was/is offering both versions so people with different preferences can both enjoy it their way.

It's kind of like the toilet paper roll facing front or back, in the end we both use them for the same thing! lol

Yes, I prefer the option of letting users pick b/t DRM-FREE or Steam. This way - everybody wins!

Plus, Amazon DVG will NOT run out of keys when going DRM-FREE - since there ain't any keys to request from the publisher EVER! Amazon DVG's stock for said game is INFINITE, when going DRM-FREE.
Plus, Amazon DVG won't have to worry about activation limits, refunds, or any other nonsense that comes when gamers go DRM-FREE - b/c the game has no garbage around it.
We all remember the troubles gamers had w/ Risen 1 PC they bought from Amazon DVG when it had the silly Tages internet activation and check around it, right?

#10138 omgoblins

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:52 AM

Patching-up Sacred 2: Gold Edition properly can be a royal pain-in-the-butt.
There's a lot of patching and weirdness, before you can get that game going right.

I ain't tried it, but I've heard and it's well documented that patching Companies of Heroes (Non-Steam) can be a pain b/c there's so many patches to run...
That might be one of the few games, I might actually rather have over Steam - even though I own COH + Op Fronts already from Retail...


Yeah I completely agree if there was a big problem with patching a game, I'd definitely go Steam. That makes a ton of sense. I'm thankful I haven't bought any games that have given me any trouble. The majority of my games are Steam games anyway, but I have probably 33% DRM Free, no problems thus far.

#10139 MysterD

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:00 AM

Yeah I completely agree if there was a big problem with patching a game, I'd definitely go Steam. That makes a ton of sense. I'm thankful I haven't bought any games that have given me any trouble. The majority of my games are Steam games anyway, but I have probably 33% DRM Free, no problems thus far.


Only thing is...Sacred 2: Gold Edition isn't available on Steam in the USA. ;)
You'll have to look outside of Steam and USA if you live in the USA, pretty much.
We can thank insane distribution rights for different regions b/t CDV and Deep Silver, for that one.

Yeah.. especially DA:O Ultimate... omg I still cringe because I had to re-download that game 3 times because Origin kept corrupting it!! same with Battlefield 3, I got such bad dl speeds from Origin client it made it feel like forever and ending up with a corrupted download was such a bummer.

And I'm sure most of us have some kind of GB limit w/ our ISP, correct?
We can't just go ahead and DL 30 GB games all the time, you know?

#10140 Seraphym

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:00 AM

Patching-up Sacred 2: Gold Edition properly can be a royal pain-in-the-butt.
There's a lot of patching and weirdness, before you can get that game going right.


And your walkthrough for it should be in some Patching FAQ. I'm still super thankful you posted that. I never.. never would have gotten it all together on my own.