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Playstation 4: Rumors and Speculation, complete with fanboy rage!


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#61 smallsharkbigbite

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:03 PM

1. That doesn't affect my point. Car companies are getting a chunk of the market so they also benefit from used sales. Game companies do not. Furthermore, there is a significant difference in quality between a used car and a new car. There is no difference between a used game and a new game.

2. True, but like I said, the majority of the market is now in digital sales. Music companies no longer need to worry much about used sales.

3. The construction companies have no control over the housing market and therefore couldn't prevent used home sales even if they wanted to. Furthermore, they can be contracted for many other purposes. I highly doubt there is any such thing as a construction company that focuses only on building houses.

Just like you COULD sell the used games, but no one will want them. Just like no one wants your opened toilet paper.


1. Car manufacturers get $0 from used sales. Car dealers get a big chunk of profits from used sales.

Now you could argue that car dealers are necessary to get the product into the consumers hands and they would have to subsidize them if they didn't have used sales, but then the same thing could be said in a non-digital download world where many retailers push used game sales since they have a higher profit on those games.

2. Dissagree. When MP4s were sold and locked to devices, yes what you said was true. Amazon pushed MP3s and won. Now I can copy my digital downloads as much as possible and give them to friends/make cds for other people.

3. I think the point needs to be made that in the videogame market we have an oligopoly. So PS4 won't block used game sales unless Microsoft blocks them. Because that is their main competition and if they all do it you choices are limited to support them or not. The music/Car/House industry have dozens (housing hundreds) of suppliers of their products. So if one of them tried this you'd just go to another one. It gets back to the basics of supply and demand. Maybe a new console player would come on the market and allow used games sales to try and be competitive, but otherwise the current leaders could lead us to this market.

Being that this affects me negatively, I don't like it. I also don't think it's necessary. If not this generation, the next generation should be digital download anyway. That will take care of "used" sales.

#62 waldo21212

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

Think about it. In two generation. Three at the most, people will forget a used games market ever existed. Although there may be a boycott initially, it'll last as long as the outcry against Rush Limbaugh when the actual games start to come through.

Games sell system. Not features. If you guys want to concentrate on how the inability to play used games will affect yourself, that's fine, but in the long run some other young kid or parent who doesn't know better will take your place. Not saying your business is expendable. It's not. But the game industry will make more money over the course of ten years without the business of 100,000 individuals skipping on a console, if the other 39,900,000 million get accustomed to only buying "new" and kill the used game market in the process (1.81 billion dollars in lost sales).


I agree the industry will keep on going even with a boycott from the gamer crowd. The game companies would rather sell 1 game for $70 to 10 million people once a year vs. $1,000 worth of games to 100,000 people once a year.

However, don't expect much more than the EA and Activiction yearly rehashes if this is the case.

#63 6er

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

I don't think they're going to make 2160p TVs any time soon.

It's probably that high so it can generate 120 fps at 1080p, for 3D. It's also possible they could be aiming for 4 people split-screen playing on one TV with glasses, similar to 2 player on the Playstation Display.


Actually, the term the AV people use is "4K" resolution ( for the 4000 part) and you can already choose from several 4k projectors. I read a MaxPC White Paper last year estimating first 4k TV in 2012 or 2013. Looking like 2013 now....

#64 Enuf

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:58 PM

No used games = less potential buyers of a sequel. A healthy used game market is as good for publishers and the industry as it is for customers.

Also you can't bring a game to a friend's house which would result in more lost sales.

So right, if people think that GS used $ will go directly into the new game market they're wrong SOME will but a large majority of cash strapped customers will make less purchases. Also, your so right about not being able to bring games to friends w/o taking the whole damn console will hurt word of mouth.

theoretically if this article turns out to be true, there are some things i have a problem with. 1st, if they have such a problem with used games, then why make exclusive deals with gamestop. make gamestop pay out royalties to each of the game devs/pubs for each used game they sold. gamestop made a ton in profits in 2011. some of that could go back to the devs/pubs.

with the used cars thing and the dealers, why not sony just cut out the middle man(gamestop) and offer to buy back your games (or at least sony exclusives) and then they can resell them at a lower price point on their website.

I can't understand for the life of me why Sony/MS/Nintendo didn't just buy GS out along time ago since they make so much money. Now they would profit on both new & used gmes, be able to track their 2nd hand sales directly(which will help gain more info on if the online passes really work). They could also share cost/profit with devs to make everyone happy...except GS.

#65 waldo21212

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:03 PM

Being that this affects me negatively, I don't like it. I also don't think it's necessary. If not this generation, the next generation should be digital download anyway. That will take care of "used" sales.


The biggest problem I have with no used games and all digital delivery is that there is no incentive to lower prices due to limited competition.

And once a game is old(er), it's not like it's taking up shelf space like a physical copy at a retailer, so you will never see clearance type prices.

Maybe PSN and XBL will be like Steam with sales all the time, but for some reason I highly doubt it.

#66 8bitArtist

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:56 PM

Games sell system. Not features. If you guys want to concentrate on how the inability to play used games will affect yourself, that's fine, but in the long run some other young kid or parent who doesn't know better will take your place. Not saying your business is expendable. It's not. But the game industry will make more money over the course of ten years without the business of 100,000 individuals skipping on a console, if the other 39,900,000 million get accustomed to only buying "new" and kill the used game market in the process (1.81 billion dollars in lost sales).


i think there are a lot of parents out there that buy their kid used games. thats why gamestop makes such ridiculous profits. any gamer with half a brain knows if youre going to buy used, ebay shows the true market value of the game. i honestly think its going to hurt the gaming industry way more than help it.

day 1/1st week sales wont nearly be as good. for example, there are a lot of people who bought resident evil: ORC who knew it might have been shitty, but they always had the back up plan of selling it on ebay or somewhere if the reviews turned out to be right (which they did). imo that game wouldnt have gotten nearly the 1st week sales it did if there wasnt that option to recoup $ on the steaming pile of shit you just bought for $60 that slant six/capcom had the audacity to actually release

i think the 1.81 billion in lost sales figure is a little skewed. that number is saying that every single person that bought that used game, WOULD have bought it new and that just isnt the case. again, the only people who buy $55 used games at gamestop are dumb parents trying to save a buck.

i remember an article saying how dead space only sold like(at the time) 2 million copies or something but the game has been on like 3 million ps3/xbox profiles. so they blamed the used market on how they lost 1 million sales. which is BS, not all those people were planning on buying their game. if they just want to rent it or borrow it from a friend, most have no intention of ever buying it. however, im sure some of those people went and bought dead space 2 new when it came out. renting/borrowing helped people on the fence buy into the series down the road.

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#67 Ivanhoe

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:09 PM

If the PS4 has no BC to PS3 games
AND is going to lock out used games.

Then I simply will not buy it.

I think Sony should be trying to figure out how to make a better gaming experience with the PS4 instead of trying to cut out BC and used games.

No BC means sony will just get to charge you whatever they want for digital games of PS1,PS2,PS3,PSP games, They have full control of them at all times. GEE I can't wait to see those prices too. Over priced old games in digital format which you cannot sell . And physical copies of same games being sold used everywhere for a small fraction of the PSN prices.

No used games is a joke. I wonder who the publishers will blame when no used games are an option anymore and they continue to fail to sell XX amount of games to hit their goals.. what excuses will the use then?

#68 elessar123

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:13 PM

But the game industry will make more money over the course of ten years without the business of 100,000 individuals skipping on a console, if the other 39,900,000 million get accustomed to only buying "new" and kill the used game market in the process (1.81 billion dollars in lost sales).


That's assuming they can convert the $1.81 billion on lost sales to new sales, which isn't going to happen. It's the argument for piracy; studios think every download is a monetary loss. It's not.

Also, how many games did the typical Wii owner buy? Something like 3. Relying on the casuals buying 5 games a system is not going to work.

#69 8bitArtist

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:14 PM

No used games is a joke. I wonder who the publishers will blame when no used games are an option anymore and they continue to fail to sell XX amount of games to hit their goals.. what excuses will the use then?


it was those damn pirates! they like, totally downloaded our game a trillion times!

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#70 Ivanhoe

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:29 PM

it was those damn pirates! they like, totally downloaded our game a trillion times!


lol yeah exactly.

#71 Dormin

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:46 PM

welp I might be going back to PC gaming ie Steam gaming for most of next gen if this is the case. Then just buy cheap clearance PS only titles for when the system is at the end of its life. Pretty much stay one gen behind in consoles and in current gen on PC.
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#72 Vader582

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:56 PM

I'm ok with this as long as online passes and paid DLC goes the way of the Dodo.
I'd much rather devs get the money than Gamestop.
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#73 8bitArtist

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

I'm ok with this as long as online passes and paid DLC goes the way of the Dodo.


:lol: boy, youre just setting yourself up for disappointment there bud. lol. dlc isnt going anywhere, in fact, itll probably just get worse next gen.

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#74 blitz6speed

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:20 PM

Because wanting to keep money in the dev and publishers' pockets and not GameStops is such a terrible thing...


No other industry other then games does this, you can buy and resell movies, books and music all day. Why is the video game industry special? If they are losing money on releases, they need to rethink how much it costs to make games and how much they are charging for them. If PS4/720 are this way, i'll be a Wii U exclusive gamer next gen. I dont think these companys are that stupid, but i guess anything is possible at this point. Lets wait and see.

#75 Vader582

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

:lol: boy, youre just setting yourself up for disappointment there bud. lol. dlc isnt going anywhere, in fact, itll probably just get worse next gen.

I completely agree.
The days of free, unlockable content being on the disc/cart are long gone. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be ok with its return, however.
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#76 camoor

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

Think about it. In two generation. Three at the most, people will forget a used games market ever existed. Although there may be a boycott initially, it'll last as long as the outcry against Rush Limbaugh when the actual games start to come through.

Games sell system. Not features. If you guys want to concentrate on how the inability to play used games will affect yourself, that's fine, but in the long run some other young kid or parent who doesn't know better will take your place. Not saying your business is expendable. It's not. But the game industry will make more money over the course of ten years without the business of 100,000 individuals skipping on a console, if the other 39,900,000 million get accustomed to only buying "new" and kill the used game market in the process (1.81 billion dollars in lost sales).


You might be right. People here write multi-paragraph rants about how ending used games is the end of gaming, but similar multi-paragraph rants were written about stuff like DLC with little effect.

I'll tell you this though - if they do implement this "no new game" thing they better do a seamless job of it. If people have the slightest annoyance trying to access the content they bought, shit is going to get real.

#77 phantomfriar2002

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

i think there are a lot of parents out there that buy their kid used games. thats why gamestop makes such ridiculous profits. any gamer with half a brain knows if youre going to buy used, ebay shows the true market value of the game. i honestly think its going to hurt the gaming industry way more than help it.


This is the key IMO. Kids buy used games = parents buy used games -- take that away and they're going to lose a massive amount of consumers. It may not matter to the hard-core gamer who buys everything day and date, so to speak, but if they want to simply blow up a huge percentage of their audience, in the end it's going to hurt them more than help it. I just don't see frugal parents who might spend literally a few bucks on used games for their kids suddenly plopping down $60 for a new title (or more) every month...they'll simply find some other form of entertainment instead, whether it's playing cheap games on their ipads or whatever. This goes for other consumers, and I'm guessing a lot of folks who use this site in particular, who don't feel the need to pay MSRP for every game.

To me this is almost like the video game crash in the 80s and could kill the future of consoles. It feels like a nearsighted move to gain more profits but in the end it's going to kill them far more than what they might gain in the short-term.

#78 waldo21212

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:41 PM

i see 2 PS4 and Xbox 720 system coming

1.200-300 u cant play used games 2.500-600 uu can play used games


Yeah this is probably true. Sony and MS will experiment and try it, it will backfire, and they will remove it.

Hopefully they are smart enough to make it so it can be turned off.

#79 elessar123

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:48 PM

You might be right. People here write multi-paragraph rants about how ending used games is the end of gaming, but similar multi-paragraph rants were written about stuff like DLC with little effect.


Ridge Racer on the Vita probably didn't do well. If it continues in that direction, there will be an effect.

The biggest problem is that they seem to be borrowing from free-to-play games, like Maple Story. The problem is, they charge an full price for the entry fee. If they do DLC-heavy games like Ridge Racer, the entry fee needs to be minuscule. They're expecting everyone to be ok paying $60 a game, then another $15-60+ for DLC, and now expect them to not be able to ever recoup any of that back. Yea, it's not going to happen. Maybe if the initial entry was close to free, but then we're back to a shareware model.

#80 GirlsRscandalouz

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:57 PM

1. I swap games with family and friends
2. I buy games off of Ebay and Craigs List sometimes at a great discount.
3. I have over 70 games for my PS3 and a lot of money in DLC on it.
4. Playstation gets full price for their games in store.. What someone else does with it afterwards is none of their business and to limit the PS4 to only new games not any used games only shows their greedy fucks who don't give a shit about the consumer.
5. Anything I buy from movies, cds, clothes etc. as long as it's not a consumable.. I have the right to resell.
If this console is going to be like this they will not see a dime of my money and I hope someone hacks their shit again to give them a dose of reality. Gaming companies and Sony are beyond rich off of us, the gaming society. Give us what we want within reason. And Backwards compatibility is not unreasonable... used games are not unreasonable.

#81 noone13

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:34 PM

I know I wouldn't bother with either system if they use the no used game system. I buy lots of used for my kids. I accept there is a chance they might break/lost/whatever the disc so I try to keep the cost low. Plus the GameStop 7 day return for used games is great for kids. I have bought several games for my kids that they think they want. Only to turn out the game sucks or is too hard etc. I can return that game and be out nothing. On top of that I honestly couldn't tell you the last game I walked in and paid money for. Every game I have bought for years has been through trade in credit or gift cards. Take out the trade in system and I am out. I know I am one person so I am sure Sony could care less but I could also care less about giving them my money. I can play PC and my kids will be happy with the games they already have until they can use the PC as well. Add to it the fact a good PC will cost roughly the same or less than a PS4 I think the decision is pretty easy to make. The last PC I built cost around $700 and I have been able to play any game I want on it.

#82 Blaster man

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:07 PM

Day 1 anti-trust lawsuit.

If the Xbox 3 and PS 4 both have anti-used game protection then that would imply they discussed this prior to release, particularly if it's the same technology being used. This type of coordination between companies that is intended to destroy competition in the marketplace is illegal. Day one anti-trust lawsuits will hit them hard.

#83 Jodou

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:08 PM

What's hilarious about this entire scenario, if played out, is that you'd see a heavy shift in market share to PC/Droid/iOS. Many games are seeing PC ports specifically because of digital distribution but if suddenly there were no market for console games, it would be a complete 180. Cost of computing keeps falling while console prices keep rising. Sony/M$/Nintendo would do well to remember who the real masters of gaming are.

#84 Blaster man

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:13 PM

What's hilarious about this entire scenario, if played out, is that you'd see a heavy shift in market share to PC/Droid/iOS. Many games are seeing PC ports specifically because of digital distribution but if suddenly there were no market for console games, it would be a complete 180. Cost of computing keeps falling while console prices keep rising. Sony/M$/Nintendo would do well to remember who the real masters of gaming are.


One thing is for sure, Nintendo won't have used-game protection. Normally their resistance to new technology is bad (like moving to HD) but in this case it would probably be a huge help for them. If the other two consoles do this and Nintendo doesn't, Nintendo will rule the next gen.

If the Wii U does end up having this technology then you can say with certainty that the other two will definitely have it as well.

I do have my doubts about this happening at all although the rumors have been flying for a while now.

#85 Thomas96

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:18 PM

If you don't like the policy then don't buy the product. If Sony does come out with a system that doesn't allow used games to be fully used, then they're going to have to release games at a cheaper starting point or games will have to drop in price a lot faster. After everything that went on with the PS3, I'm not going to early adopt on any console.
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#86 Jodou

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:19 PM

One thing is for sure, Nintendo won't have used-game protection. Normally their resistance to new technology is bad (like moving to HD) but in this case it would probably be a huge help for them. If the other two consoles do this and Nintendo doesn't, Nintendo will rule the next gen.

If the Wii U does end up having this technology then you can say with certainty that the other two will definitely have it as well.

I do have my doubts about this happening at all although the rumors have been flying for a while now.

More likely there is confusion with their strategy to counter used game sales this next gen, which is generating idiotic rumors. If Sony and M$ were smart, they would crush any momentum Nintendo might have with WiiU by announcing their plans for next gen at E3. Nintendo will continue to dominate the handheld market and it's where their focus should be at this point. They've lost home console gamers for good.

#87 pharmacrest

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:25 PM

First off, everyone realizes this is still RUMOR, right?

But what if it does happen? Why do you all care so much? Go play PC/smartphone games if you want. Go outside and do something else. If you dont want to pay for a product, dont. No one will stop you.

If the console manufacturers stop used games from being valuable and no one feels the need to buy their new product at MSRP, then supply will rise and prices will have to drop. BUT, if there are enough people still buying games and prices dont drop to a price you like, guess what? TOUGH SHIT. You either pay the going price, or oh my god, you cant play console games anymore! The horror.

What my post comes down to is that I think a lot of you are worried there will be enough people still buying new games that you wont be able to get really cheap games anymore (I doubt it, but it could happen). Again, tough shit if that happens. I want a Lambo, but those bastards wont sell it to me for 5 grand!

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#88 Blaster man

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:57 PM

First off, everyone realizes this is still RUMOR, right?

But what if it does happen? Why do you all care so much? Go play PC/smartphone games if you want. Go outside and do something else. If you dont want to pay for a product, dont. No one will stop you.

If the console manufacturers stop used games from being valuable and no one feels the need to buy their new product at MSRP, then supply will rise and prices will have to drop. BUT, if there are enough people still buying games and prices dont drop to a price you like, guess what? TOUGH SHIT. You either pay the going price, or oh my god, you cant play console games anymore! The horror.

What my post comes down to is that I think a lot of you are worried there will be enough people still buying new games that you wont be able to get really cheap games anymore (I doubt it, but it could happen). Again, tough shit if that happens. I want a Lambo, but those bastards wont sell it to me for 5 grand!


I don't get this. I don't get that people don't care. If you don't give a shit about cheap games then why the hell are you here?

#89 jay_remedy

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:04 PM

1. Car manufacturers get $0 from used sales. Car dealers get a big chunk of profits from used sales.

Now you could argue that car dealers are necessary to get the product into the consumers hands and they would have to subsidize them if they didn't have used sales, but then the same thing could be said in a non-digital download world where many retailers push used game sales since they have a higher profit on those games.

2. Dissagree. When MP4s were sold and locked to devices, yes what you said was true. Amazon pushed MP3s and won. Now I can copy my digital downloads as much as possible and give them to friends/make cds for other people.

3. I think the point needs to be made that in the videogame market we have an oligopoly. So PS4 won't block used game sales unless Microsoft blocks them. Because that is their main competition and if they all do it you choices are limited to support them or not. The music/Car/House industry have dozens (housing hundreds) of suppliers of their products. So if one of them tried this you'd just go to another one. It gets back to the basics of supply and demand. Maybe a new console player would come on the market and allow used games sales to try and be competitive, but otherwise the current leaders could lead us to this market.

Being that this affects me negatively, I don't like it. I also don't think it's necessary. If not this generation, the next generation should be digital download anyway. That will take care of "used" sales.


First off, people need to stop comparing the video game industry to other industries on a 1:1 scale. They're not the same. But anyways:

1. But don't car manufacturers run/license these dealers? Every Honda dealership I see has a large used car lot right next to the new cars. Mercedes and other luxury brands runs ads on TV specifically for their used cars. They obviously benefit from the used car market in a way that Capcom/Sony/Activision/EA/etc. don't.

2. You downloading songs and giving them to your friends isn't the same as stores selling used products, but the music and movie industry are largely different from the video game industry because of one major point: multiple streams of revenue. If a band releases a song, they can make money in many different ways. They can sell it on a CD, they get royalties when it's played on the radio and Internet radio, they can put it on soundtracks to movies or TV shows, they can license it for use in commercials, and most importantly, they can play it during concerts. Movies are released at the theater, then on home video, then get licensed to HBO/premium cable channels, then they get licensed to cable/basic channels. Video games have one stream of revenue: selling it to the consumer. That's it.

3. That's another good point as to why the video game industry is much different. They are able to affect the used game market because there are only three video game system providers.

The bottom line in this whole debate is if the market supports it, it will continue to happen. Everyone was up in arms over $15 DLC map packs for COD, yet they ended up being the biggest selling DLC items. If people support a console that doesn't use used games, then it will happen. If not, then it'll go back to the way it was.

I don't get this. I don't get that people don't care. If you don't give a shit about cheap games then why the hell are you here?


I love cheap games. I don't buy any used games. What's your point?

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#90 joeboosauce

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:51 PM

I have always said that the digital market has some benefits, mostly of convenience, but ultimately is about convenience for the producers. They maintain control of the product and you cannot resell it. Used markets will be greatly diminished and then so will the price fluctuations. Who then controls the price if there is no competitive used market? I should be able to sell my digital product. But, people need to refuse to partake in the digitally restricted market.

The sheeple consumers who don't really think about their purchasing (they are not programmed to by our consumer culture and marketing machine; informed consumer my ass), will end up applauding the taking away of their rights over products they purchase. In the future, you own nothing. You lease everything with all those terms and conditions blah blah blah. See, its already happening with TOS you need a JD to read. If you want to see the future now, see how farmers must lease seeds from Monsanto. And buy all their crap with it too. And now, they are finding major dangers with the seeds.

This digital market is not just games but music, books. Where is the bargain bin on Kindle books? Don't expect those any more. We are lemmings walking off a cliff.
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