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CAGcast #280: Half CAGcast, Half Mass Effect 3 Spoilercast


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#31 Wombat

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:38 PM

They serve the council, not the people. I'd say 10 maximum. And since the council was never really interested in fighting the Reapers, no reason why their spectres would be doing missions related to the cause.

Stupid citadel. I was hoping we could help retake Omega, perhaps have a dance-off battle with the Illusive Man for control. But, alas, it obviously got trimmed out of the budget. Is the Citadel really the only unoccupied place to eat left in the galaxy? Perhaps if the alliance would hire a chef like Ceberus did, the crew could just eat onboard.


I thought they were more like Green Lanterns, with the council being the guardians.

#32 ThomasTruong

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:39 PM

Wiki lists eight specters, although it's fair to wish for more.

Really not trying to sound rude and come off as an elitist prick, I love you guys, but I wish some more time was spent researching any questions you guys had about the trilogy. Parts such as the long 1 minute segment of Shipwreck doubleguessing saving Kaiden's survival for males, confusion about the origin of the Collectors, or questioning how the Alliance secured the Cerebus Normandy (It's explained through consoles EDI guides you through) made me facepalm a little bit... While I'm sure most wouldn't care about it, for the most part it would make folks like me get anal about the facts and it just adds to the confusion.

I still liked it and a lot of my complaints may be me expecting too much, especially when you all have more pressing matters than to discuss lore for a fictional game. But I hope future discussions about the plots of different games would be slightly more prepared and researched beforehand instead of acting confused and wasting time during the recording.

Once again, sorry if I'm coming off rude, keep up the good work and thanks for the early podcast.

#33 USB Cable

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:41 PM

Spoiler


I've been playing as BroManDude Shep but I'm starting over from Mass Effect 1 with Fem Shep to experience her voice acting and I'll save Kaidan to see if he's as big a douche as Ashley. I've been playing as the good guy so I'm making Fem Shep the Bitchyest Bitch the Galaxy has ever seen.
Spoiler

#34 drkshr

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:50 PM

Show Notes

5:30 - Show feedback
7:30 - Watch this
9:00 - Thug Life
11:00 - New Releases
11:00 - Witcher 2
18:15 - Trials Evolution
18:45 - Disgaea 3
19:30 - Deadliest Warrior
21:30 - NPDs (Binary Domain, Resident Evil, Vita)
29:45 - Ridge Racer Unbounded
32:00 - Apple/Valve
34:15 - MS monetizing Live
35:30 - Big Win Hockey
38:30 - Mass Effect 3 talk


FYI: I always look for your post now so I know where to jump back too when I miss certain discussions.

#35 drkshr

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:57 PM

Oh and can you guys please watch Driver soon? If not, I expect Cheapy to continue to ask you guys each week if you've watched it.

#36 Jasper Kazai

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:34 PM

Thanks for the clear warning of when the spoiler talk started. I probably won't be able to play ME3 for like another year, so don't want to hear that. Thought I'd have to skip this week entirely, but you made it safe.

Although I'm worried about making it that long... I didn't get to play ME2 until the PS3 version was released (and I don't mean I had to wait for the PS3 version. I mean that when the PS3 version came out, it had been a year already so I got the PC version for cheap), but that didn't have such a big hubbub about the story. Since there's such force behind this ending, I feel like a couple of months down the road, people are going to stop caring and just blurt it out, thinking that everyone has played it by then.

#37 USB Cable

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:38 PM

Oh and can you guys please watch Driver soon? If not, I expect Cheapy to continue to ask you guys each week if you've watched it.


Seriously or I'll report both of you to the BBB! I thought it was a great movie so I don't think it'll be a waste of time.
Spoiler

#38 LiK

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:41 PM

Thanks for the clear warning of when the spoiler talk started. I probably won't be able to play ME3 for like another year, so don't want to hear that. Thought I'd have to skip this week entirely, but you made it safe.

Although I'm worried about making it that long... I didn't get to play ME2 until the PS3 version was released (and I don't mean I had to wait for the PS3 version. I mean that when the PS3 version came out, it had been a year already so I got the PC version for cheap), but that didn't have such a big hubbub about the story. Since there's such force behind this ending, I feel like a couple of months down the road, people are going to stop caring and just blurt it out, thinking that everyone has played it by then.


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#39 Armaly

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:18 PM

I'm pretty sure that the Witcher came before Mass Effect.

#40 4thHorseman

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:01 PM

Really didn't understand all the confusion for ME3. Felt like most of it made sense, just a tad vague and stupid at times.

Regarding the indoctrination theory with the little boy: In the beginning of the game, other people do see the kid. When they are trying to escape on the ship, you see one of the soldiers rush the kid onto the shuttle. Of course your other teammates didn't see him, because they weren't there at the time.

#41 KingBroly

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:49 PM

I thought they were more like Green Lanterns, with the council being the guardians.


I understood what you talking about, but a better example could've been the Justice League, where instead of a race of omnipotent beings selecting the few, the proud, the marines, you'd have a bunch of chosen heroes protecting the galaxy instead of screwing it up more often than not. Heck, you already have the overpriced space station.
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#42 binaryboxcutter

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:57 PM

I thought the discussion was great. I really didn't have a problem with the ending. I played through the whole series, and I was kind of surprised and entertained by how much some people really read into the ending. Sure, it felt a little out of left field. They had to put a bow on it some how.

The problem with discussing this game is that almost every person is going to experience a slightly different version of the story. The major plot points are mostly the same, but there are entire characters and scenes that some people will never see. Unless they look up the alternate scenes online, or play through the game multiple times. That part is way more interesting than Space Poochie Jr.


#43 Horsewarrior of Janjaweed

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:02 PM

This is the only video you need to know about Mass Effect 3.

6j03J4OAYH4

It's an okay game that EA pretty much treated as a cash grab and it should have been much better and the ending is the stuff of legends, but this video makes everything alright.

#44 skadave

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:23 AM

No talk about FEZ this week? I was looking forward to a little discussion regarding this title. . . oh well.

#45 sinewav

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:36 AM

Cheapy, Wombat, and Shipwreck while I appreciate your efforts at a full ME3 discussion this week overall I found it lacking because IMO it was too one sided. I respect your opinions on the game so maybe you could have invited a guest on your show who liked the game & ending to balance it out. Also too much time was spent on the end and you left out many parts of the rest of the game for example the improvements to the game (combat, weapon customization, leveling, etc), multi-player, or even more time on the differences in your stories. It also didn't help that only Wombat seemed to have any real interest in the topic.

Spoiler


Ship, just to refresh your memory over the Kaiden/Ashley decision as this video shows you indeed get to choose which of the two dies in ME1 regardless of gender and that decision follows you the whole game:


Edited by sinewav, 18 April 2012 - 07:05 AM.


#46 apathylad

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:43 AM

I still haven't played Mass Effect 3, but I listened to the spoiler discussion anyway. I felt like I had to, because I wanted to understand why people were upset, but I didn't want to spend money on it at the moment.
Spoiler


#47 bickle

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:03 AM

FYI: I always look for your post now so I know where to jump back too when I miss certain discussions.


Cool, I'm glad it's helpful for someone :D Sometimes I get bored at work and want to hear someone talk about a specific game.

Good show, I'm glad the ME3 talk started so early. I like that Wombat leads the in-depth game critique sessions, he does a nice job of giving it a structure.

One thing that continually surprises me here and elsewhere is how user experiences can be so similar. For example most people talk about the quality of the story at the end, but I find people's reactions to be very interesting. When I heard my 3 options, I literally didn't want to choose anything. I hated em all and basically just picked the middle one because I no longer cared. And hearing Cheapy say that he just didn't care reminded me of that.

In my opinion, the worst thing about the ending is just how it makes people feel. Like it was all pointless. That it didn't matter. That things you cared about are irrelevant. I'm assuming that most of these plot points are errors due to bad storytelling, but in my ending I felt horrible that I took Liara along on my last mission and got her killed, then felt horrible because I was forcing an evolution upon the entire galaxy, even more horrible when I saw them all blow up anyway due to the mass relay explosions, then having to watch Joker and crew frantically trying to escape the explosion that I caused. Then after all that crap, everyone's fine! And Joker gets to bang Edi and my Liara for the rest of his life. MY Liara. The end. :P

Regarding the indoctrination theory, that would take a lot of foresight and by all accounts the end was put together pretty fast. I think its much more believable that this was all just a big screw up caused by pushing it out the door too fast.

#48 basston3s

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:19 AM

Really didn't understand all the confusion for ME3. Felt like most of it made sense, just a tad vague and stupid at times.

Regarding the indoctrination theory with the little boy: In the beginning of the game, other people do see the kid. When they are trying to escape on the ship, you see one of the soldiers rush the kid onto the shuttle. Of course your other teammates didn't see him, because they weren't there at the time.


Shepard is the only one who seems to notice him. The soldiers wave some other civilians onto the ship, and the little boy comes stumbling after. If it were truly real, you would think the soldiers would run and physically pick the child up. Nope, he casually struggles to get on board with people around him doing nothing.

Check out the vid (Min 23 Sec 25): http://www.youtube.c...w5jnfE#t=23m25s

#49 Sway

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:37 AM

Drive rental at Amazon $1.99

http://www.amazon.co...ZK6C8MQ8N5Z6MEH

#50 Froogin

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:25 AM

Great show guys, only errors I noticed in regards to Mass Effect 3 was Shipwreck thinking that you get Ashley if you're male and Kaiden if you're female. It's entirely based on who you picked to survive in the first game. Bioware has always been cool about giving the option to be gay if you so happen to swing that way, so they made a point to give you either option. The other thing was Wombat saying how he would have appreciated a couple lines of dialogue to explain why Cerberus was now shooting at Shepard. During my game I talked to the Elusive man via hologram, not sure if it's game specific. Any-way's, keep it up!

#51 mwmike11

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

The entire time I watched that beginning part, even during the demo, I was thinking the kid was a Shepard hallucination, some sort of extension of his "innocence" (that's not the word I'm looking for, but it will do) in the grand scheme of things. Once that ship the kid was on blew up, it troubled Shepard for the rest of the game. Obviously.

I will agree with most people on here, though, and on the spoilercast. The ending just didn't fit. I wasn't pissed to the point that I was ready to burn down BioWare and EA headquarters or anything, it just didn't make a hell of a lot of sense. The entire time I was watching that end sequence on the Citadel, I was like...wait, what? And when The Illusive Man was talking, something about that whole sequence just didn't fit.

While I agree that the Indoctrination Theory seems real enough, I've heard from someone claiming to be close to BioWare (take it with a grain of salt) that it is wrong, mainly because of that end "Stargazer" scene. How would the old man know what Shepard experienced while he was being Indoctrinated? He did kind of give me his theories about some of the end sequences, particularly
Spoiler
I really feel that the Extended Cut will explain everything. Or maybe that is simply wishful thinking...

#52 4thHorseman

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:12 PM

Shepard is the only one who seems to notice him. The soldiers wave some other civilians onto the ship, and the little boy comes stumbling after. If it were truly real, you would think the soldiers would run and physically pick the child up. Nope, he casually struggles to get on board with people around him doing nothing.

Check out the vid (Min 23 Sec 25): http://www.youtube.c...w5jnfE#t=23m25s


I retract my statement. Totally remembered it wrong. I thought he was trying to get to the ship and one of the soldiers were kind of leading him onto the ship.

#53 kuddles

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:13 PM

Okay, I find myself in a weird place because I wasn't crazy about the ending myself (I liked the concept but also think they didn't execute it clearly enough) yet I feel like I'm one of the few lone defenders online. This is weird because in real life everyone I know who played the game loved the ending and thought I was being overly negative so personally I've been shocked to see the hate online. I thought the ending perfectly matched the themes of the series.

Let me retort some of the comments on this show:

1) First of all, I don't know why people keep pushing this narrative about how "no sites or magazines talked about the ending". Off the top of my head, the reviews for PC Gamer, Gametrailers, 1UP and Gamespy all dedicate space to saying that some people may be dissatisfied with how it concludes.

2) Second, I find it baffling that the same people saying the ending "makes no sense" will then defend the plausibility of the "indoctrination theory" which has got to be right up there with Loose Change as far as making up crazy shit until it fits.

Spoiler

Edited by kuddles, 18 April 2012 - 01:27 PM.


#54 CozmoKhan

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:51 PM

I enjoyed all three of the games. But, I did come away with the feeling that the ending was lazy. Instead of having multiple, different endings based on dozens of choices throughout the game, it came to a single choice of A, B or C. I had thought of playing through all the games again to try Renegade v. Paragon, or saving a different character to see what happened at the end. But, if all my choices come down to Red, Green or Blue, AND the game sets you back to a point where you can get to that choice again? I just watched the different endings on YouTube. Not really motivated to play through again.

It also bothered me with the word choice "decimated" right near the end when Admiral Ackbar says that no one made it, the squad was "decimated". I know a common, modern definition has "decimated" to be "mostly wiped out", but historically, it's 1 out of 10 is killed. It's similar to when a writer or speaker uses the word "irregardless". Just plain dumb.

And, Ship, "Hammer" refers to the ground attack. Hammer and Spear: Ground and Aerial/Space attacks. So, when Hammer was getting wiped out, it meant that most of the ground troops were getting killed and the effectiveness of the ground attack was diminishing.

But, "Project Wombat" is worth it. I'm hooked! I just wish people would talk more, or I could play with CAGs. There are snobs playing with N7 rankings over 200 that would kick people out if they were less than 50.

#55 FasterTTW

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:31 PM

Without discussing the rest of the ending,
Spoiler


#56 Cheshire Wolf

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:38 PM

Cheapy don't stop the Jamaican accent for nobody. Shit's still funny as Fuck.
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#57 FasterTTW

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:49 PM

Just finishing up the podcast now, and not sure if someone else clarified this for Ship yet, but during the final operation they designated seperate forces for different functions.

Sword was the offensive fleet
Shield was the fleet defending the Crucible
Hammer was the ground force

It wasn't really something that needed to or would make sense to have been explained before the mission starts.

#58 CozmoKhan

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:21 PM

Just finishing up the podcast now, and not sure if someone else clarified this for Ship yet, but during the final operation they designated seperate forces for different functions.

Sword was the offensive fleet
Shield was the fleet defending the Crucible
Hammer was the ground force

It wasn't really something that needed to or would make sense to have been explained before the mission starts.


Ok. I had it wrong. Sword. Spear. I forgot about Shield. But, what was Nick Fury doing in Mass Effect 3?

#59 Kezmer

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:17 PM

I don't think its fair for Cheapy to keep asking Wombat and Shipwreck to watch Driver when Cheapy wouldn't watch Paul MaCartney is Really Dead when Wombat watched it and asked Cheapy to watch it!!!!!
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#60 Calinks

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

I have to agree about the whole Spectre thing. We do see a few of them throughout the series but they are supposed to be like super agents. You seem like the only one doing anything significant. You would think other Spectres would help with the Reapers and you would work in tandem at times.

As far as future Mass Effect, I am looking forward to a game set in the future where the Reapers are gone and we get to explore the universe. Let's get back to dealing with other people/aliens, more enemies we can go after in a tangible way, and let's really open up the universe.

Lastly, and many will probably disagree with me on this, I really enjoyed Alpha Protocol a couple of years back. In my opinion that game actually delivered on the "different choice lead to different outcomes" concept Mass Effect has tried to create. Mass Effect does change things but overall the changes are usually not as big as I had hoped. In AP, you could kill or not kill every boss which would change what happens later in the game.

I hope a future Mass Effect title, which would have a story that is smaller in sheer scope can do a better job of implementing these changes on. With a scheme this grand I feel like it was too hard to give the variety of game changing story some of us were seeking since game one.