Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

CAGcast #280: Half CAGcast, Half Mass Effect 3 Spoilercast


  • Please log in to reply
110 replies to this topic

#91 FriskyTanuki

FriskyTanuki

    Get bopped, son.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:02 PM

Weren't you guys demanding the 3DS and Vita to have 3G sometime last year?

Wombat would've seen a ton of Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City ads during the March Madness tournament along with a lot of Assassin's Creed III. So make assumptions about who they were aiming for if you want.


You read it. You can't unread it.

 

Horror Chicken: F.E.A.R. and Resident Evil 4

 

PSN/XBL: CrashSpyro | Steam: CrashTanuki | Wii U: FriendlyTanuki


#92 ZombieJeebus

ZombieJeebus

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:10 PM

I have yet to see a quote specifically stating that the indoctrination theory is incorrect. If you could provide a link to that, it'd be appreciated.

Personally, I think the indoctrination theory is a little more believable than taking the ending at face value. Either is possible, but both have severe issues attached to them.
1. If what you see is really what happens, then there's more plotholes than can honestly be believed. The things occurring on-screen simply do not make sense, no matter which way you swing it.
2. If the indoctrination theory is correct, then the plotholes become irrelavent as it hadn't actually happened. However, this means that Bioware/EA deliberately left out a proper, conclusive ending to either create another sequel, or DLC to expand the ending, either through the cutscenes, or some small amount of gameplay. We can all try to look at what Bioware said about the upcoming extended ending DLC, but anything about their plans could change.

I could get into a pile of little details about how much really is broken about the ending, but all of that information is found in the AngryJoeShow video, and ACAVYOS' indoctrination theory video.


Now, onto direct responses to the spoiler-talk:

@42:25: Questioning the "new" ship in ME3:

Spoiler


@44:10: Gender-based decision on Ashley/Kaiden:
Spoiler


@46:35: Shepards' fate at the final decision:
Spoiler


@47:40: The identity of the Catalyst:
Spoiler


@49:18: Wombat's number of endings:
Spoiler


@54:46: "What the hell has been solved?":
Spoiler


@56:25 - 56:40: The mass relays:
Spoiler


@1:01:35: EDI's 'working parts':
Spoiler


@1:01:45 - 1:02:05: Mordin:
Spoiler


@1:07:50: Any other Spectres?:
Spoiler


@1:15:25 - 1:15:38: Galactic Readiness and Hammer:
Spoiler



This was a great show, and I was happy to hear more ME talk after listening to the Rooster Teeth spoiler-cast prior. I really liked the new game ideas you all came up with to extend the universe, espectially the Spectre-recruiting idea Wombat pitched. What would you all think about a prequel game where you played as the Protheans prior to the end of their cycle, or a game taking place during the First Contact War? Would these stories be better suited for other media? (The First Contact War has already been somewhat touched on in the comics, revealing a sort of origin story on the Illusive Man, but I don't know how much of the war was expanded on.)


Excellent post. :applause:

I didn't get to listen to this until yesterday, so I figured most of my criticisms would get discussed already. But just to put my two cents in:

- I don't believe in the indoctrination theory.

- I like the ending in concept, but believe it was botched beyond belief.

- The number one thing I'm looking for in the update is an understanding about why
Spoiler


- I look forward to ME4 or whatever they will call it. I would prefer it not be a prequel.
"I love you. But I also love hanging up on you."
Cheapy D, 12/16/2009

#93 usickenme

usickenme

    I'm the a-hole

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:24 PM

I think that's precisely why it's so upsetting - after all tips time and effort, the ending is just a mishmash of jumbled concepts. I think they belittled the process, not us.


It was pretty clear to me. But oh well.

#94 joyce_181502

joyce_181502

    CAG Veteran

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:27 AM

I gotta say listening to the podcast ME3 talk was quite maddening.

Several of the things they said were wrong or were explained in the character conversations. Luckily Ravenhood here made several posts to set most of those things straight.

I guess it's not too surprising that most of the confusion was from Cheapy and Wombat. They have kids and (understandably) have to "sneak" video game time such that their investment in the story or listening to all the conversations may take a backseat to the actual gameplay.

#95 Perfidious Sinn

Perfidious Sinn

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:29 AM

Thanks for splitting up Mass Effect spoilers. I listen to a lot of podcasts and have to be on my guard to skip past them these days, because everyone won't shut the Fuck up about Mass Effect 3's ending.

But you're actually considerate enough to mark spoilers for those of us who won't be playing the game for a while. Thanks CAGCast!
Posted Image

#96 CozmoKhan

CozmoKhan

    Go Blackhawks!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:58 PM

Excellent post. :applause:

I didn't get to listen to this until yesterday, so I figured most of my criticisms would get discussed already. But just to put my two cents in:

- I don't believe in the indoctrination theory.

- I like the ending in concept, but believe it was botched beyond belief.

- The number one thing I'm looking for in the update is an understanding about why

Spoiler


- I look forward to ME4 or whatever they will call it. I would prefer it not be a prequel.


Hear, hear!

#97 FasterTTW

FasterTTW

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:05 PM

- The number one thing I'm looking for in the update is an understanding about why

Spoiler


I got the impression that this might have signified that the sense of time we have during the last few minutes is not real.

I don't know WHY it would be , but maybe those final few minutes actually played out over days, weeks, or even longer.

#98 shieryda

shieryda

    Opus Eponymous

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:30 PM

LOL @ Cheapy's "Nigerian" accent.

And I completely understand what you went through, Cheapy, with your recent physical. Wombat and Shipwreck should both go get the barium go-for-a-carnival-ride-on-the-metal-table check-up. They're missing out on some fun! And while they're at it, they should schedule a colonoscopy, too. That's some killer fun, right there.

Also, Ship and Wombat - please do everyone a favor and watch "Drive" as soon as possible so that Cheapy can quit nagging you (bitches) about it. Thank you.

#99 turkeycat79

turkeycat79

    CAG Veteran

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:02 PM

Hey Cheapy and Wombat,

Do you ever worry that your kids will one day will listen to your podcasts?
Posted Image

#100 Blue Arcana

Blue Arcana

    Kitten as a cat

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:21 PM

Great show guys, only errors I noticed in regards to Mass Effect 3 was Shipwreck thinking that you get Ashley if you're male and Kaiden if you're female. It's entirely based on who you picked to survive in the first game. Bioware has always been cool about giving the option to be gay if you so happen to swing that way, so they made a point to give you either option. The other thing was Wombat saying how he would have appreciated a couple lines of dialogue to explain why Cerberus was now shooting at Shepard. During my game I talked to the Elusive man via hologram, not sure if it's game specific. Any-way's, keep it up!


He was probably thinking of the begining of Dragon Age 2, where
Spoiler

blueArcana.png


#101 MSUHitman

MSUHitman

    Checkmate Arcade Co-Host

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:25 AM

Thanks to Ravenhood for typing up everything I was thinking when listening to the podcast. Guys, would it have hurt to come consult us in the ME 3 thread in the 360 forum if you needed some help with a couple of things before you broadcast? I promise we don't bite, this isn't Bioware Social Network. :)

Listen to the Checkmate Arcade video game podcast! Also available on ITunes, Stitcher Radio, or YouTube.
42869.png


#102 MSUHitman

MSUHitman

    Checkmate Arcade Co-Host

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:33 AM

Like I said on my show's spoilercast, unless Bioware REALLY fixes this up I'm pretty much done with them. First they screw up Dragon Age (and I have defended DA 2 as much as I can on my show and on this site) and now my beloved Mass Effect, which is still one of the major reasons I even own a 360 (back when it was a given this was going to be a MS-only game as MS was publishing it.)

After playing Witcher 2 and seeing the potential in what Tell Tale does with The Walking Dead, I think Bioware is going to look like amateurs' when it comes to choice in games. They started it, but they have now been passed by as EA cracks the whip on their backs to rush out the games too fast.

Listen to the Checkmate Arcade video game podcast! Also available on ITunes, Stitcher Radio, or YouTube.
42869.png


#103 The Crotch

The Crotch

    I was famous and I was powerful.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:29 PM

After playing Witcher 2 and seeing the potential in what Tell Tale does with The Walking Dead, I think Bioware is going to look like amateurs' when it comes to choice in games. They started it...

Posted Image

Posted Image


#104 MSUHitman

MSUHitman

    Checkmate Arcade Co-Host

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 27 April 2012 - 04:08 PM

Posted Image


OK who started the whole "choice" concept in videogames or at least promoted the hell out it as its major feature then?

Listen to the Checkmate Arcade video game podcast! Also available on ITunes, Stitcher Radio, or YouTube.
42869.png


#105 The Crotch

The Crotch

    I was famous and I was powerful.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 27 April 2012 - 04:22 PM

Well...

1: There is no, "this is where narrative-altering choice came in" game. It is not yes/no, on/off.

2: As far as games that heavily, noticeably involved (relative to other games) narrative-altering choice prior to 1998's Baldur's Gate? 1988's Wasteland, 1997's Fallout, 1992's Ultima Underworld, 1996's Blood Omen...

Posted Image


#106 MSUHitman

MSUHitman

    Checkmate Arcade Co-Host

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:02 PM

Well...

1: There is no, "this is where narrative-altering choice came in" game. It is not yes/no, on/off.

2: As far as games that heavily, noticeably involved (relative to other games) narrative-altering choice prior to 1998's Baldur's Gate? 1988's Wasteland, 1997's Fallout, 1992's Ultima Underworld, 1996's Blood Omen...


OK well all those examples except Wasteland are within 1-2 years of BG so at least I'm in the ballpark :)

This is my PC Gaming history:
Wing Commander 3/4/Prophecy (played 1 on SNES.)
Madden NFL 96 (had to get a RAM upgrade to our newly bought IBM Aptiva just to play this.)
Baldur's Gate
Sims 1
Heroes of Might and Magic 2/3
Bunch of gameshow games (2 Minute Drill, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, Jeopardy, WoF)
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault
WWF With Authority! (the online-only WWE card game that became the basis for their physical game Raw Deal)
Black Hawk Down
Battlefield 2
WoW for 2 months when Burning Crusade came out

Needless to say I'm a PC newb so I never heard of Wasteland, never heard of Fallout before Fallout 3, and never got into Ultima considering how bad the NES ports were and there was nowhere to get help since I grew up in a world without internet and strategy guides.

Thanks for correcting me, although can I at least say they're one of the founders of choice in games and still be accurate?

Listen to the Checkmate Arcade video game podcast! Also available on ITunes, Stitcher Radio, or YouTube.
42869.png


#107 The Crotch

The Crotch

    I was famous and I was powerful.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:34 PM

Thanks for correcting me, although can I at least say they're one of the founders of choice in games and still be accurate?

Hm.

It is easy for me to say something stupid and misleading, so I shall take care with my words.

First, when you say "choice", I am interpreting that as "player agency over narrative and characterization". "Equip the sword or equip the bow" is a choice, but I don't think that's the kind of thing you're talking about. Going to the eagle level or the ship level in Golden Axe is a choice, but that's also not what you mean. You have a billion choices to make in a game like X-Com, but again, different kind of choice.

Now, player agency over narrative and characterization is considered one of the defining parts of a WRPG (though there are fucktons of counter-examples). They have their heart in traditional pen-and-paper RPGs, which allow far more room for player agency than any computer game. Player agency is effectively infinite, limited only by the players themselves and their GM.

With that as their origin, many early RPGs were boring and bland as all Fuck. Generic dungeon crawlers and number-crunchers. Though it is impossible for a conventional PC/console game to equal the amount of player agency offered by a "proper RPG", they did eventually start trying to play catch-up. As such, I can't really say that there is such a thing as a "founder" (or group of founders) of "choice in videogames". They're not so much cutting a path through dense forest as they are trying to follow a winding deer-trail.

I think I managed to not Fuck anything up in those paragraphs. A bit more in-depth on player agency in Baldur's Gate, its predecessors, contemporaries, and successors in a while. I think I'm-a go get some ice cream right now.


EDIT: God fucking damn you Cheapy, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the size of the "fuck" graphic utterly fucks the appearance and flow of multiple paragraphs. Even though I put proper paragraph breaks in, everything looks like one giant, double-spaced ramble because the "fuck" graphic is a few pixels too tall. Calice d'hostie.

EDIT2: Haha, Fuck making another post.

Edited by The Crotch, 29 April 2012 - 11:37 PM.

Posted Image


#108 munkishine

munkishine

    CAG Veteran

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:02 PM

@wombat I hope you don't have to give presentations at work because the start Of the me3 spoiler section was probably the most awkward and unprepared start to a planned discussion I have ever heard. And the jokes were especially bad this week

@cheapyd yo lay off smoking so much of the wacky stuff, mon....everytime ship or wombat mentioned a key element of the story, you were completely lost...."what hammer? There was a hammer???"

@ship wombat is right, from me1 you can choose to save Kaiden or the chick...I know this because I saved kaiden(didn't realize the finality of the decision I was making at the time). Don't worry though, Kaiden is a total douchebag and if I played this series again I was definitely killing his ass off but I will make sure not to romance Ashley based on wombats feedback

#109 munkishine

munkishine

    CAG Veteran

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:31 AM

@wombat I hope you don't have to give presentations at work because the start Of the me3 spoiler section was probably the most awkward and unprepared start to a planned discussion I have ever heard. And the jokes were especially bad this week

@cheapyd yo lay off smoking so much of the wacky stuff, mon....everytime ship or wombat mentioned a key element of the story, you were completely lost...."what hammer? There was a hammer???"

@ship wombat is right, from me1 you can choose to save Kaiden or the Ashley...I know this because I saved kaiden(didn't realize the finality of the decision I was making at the time). Don't worry though, Kaiden is a total douchebag and if I played this series again I was definitely killing his ass off but I will make sure not to romance Ashley based on wombats feedback

#110 Ravenhood

Ravenhood

    Master Completionist

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:09 PM

Wow, I didn't expect so many people to like the massive post I made those few weeks ago... Thanks to everyone who commented and replied with the kind words about it! It took a lot longer than I expected, and it was already about 2:30am when I started typing everything out, but it was certainly worth it to run through the lore and podcast at the same time.

@usickenme: Hmm... dormant relays could certainly help to expand the story further, if the ending can be taken at face value. I would imagine a lot of time might still pass between ME3 and whatever the next game may be, if it is a sequel.

And I do agree with you on both points, that the Bioware quotes are open to interpretation and that there may not be any real ending, though I sincerely hope that Bioware can clarify some sort of canon material to continue the universe. I just feel like, regardless of what the outcome is, there's still a lot to explain away. I may believe the indoctrination theory right now, but I'm certainly willing to change that stance if I see some concrete information in-game to, without-a-doubt, prove otherwise.

@ZombieJeebus: So, you'd prefer a sequel? What kinds of things do you think they could do with a sequel? Would it be able to take place soon after ME3, or a long time after? Or does that depend on what really happened in the ending?

I guess another good question could be, why not a prequel? There's certainly a lot of content they could expand on, and a lot of things I think I'd love to experience. the Rachni Wars, for one. But any of those previous major battles would be interesting. I've always thought that, for franchises with a large backstory, there's always room for smaller games that expand on what we already know about. Sort of like Resident Evil's Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles, but with more focus on the story and not just reliving previous games.

For Mass Effect, there could be a small release solely focused on fleshing out the details of the major wars, like the war against the Rachni, or between the Humans/Turians, or Quarians/Geth. Maybe finishing off with a greater expansion of the Protheans' fall to the Reapers, showing what some previous evolutions of the races we know looked like, and see more about Prothean life rather than just hearing it from Javik.


I also have a question for anyone out there who'd like to respond. Given the difficulties explaining the ending has proven, which ending theory do you all believe to be true? The indoctrination theory already has a lot of examples and proof to back itself up, even if it all turns out to be false; but for those who believe the ending can be taken at face-value, how do you all explain the things that happened? I've seen a lot of discussion about the ending, and I rarely see people explain their reasons for believing the "at-face-value" idea, so I'd like to hear what you all think.

Completed Games

2011 - 61 Retail, 9 Indie, 24 DLC
2012 - 51 Retail, 3 Indie, 25 DLC
2013 - 50 Retail, 5 Indie, 20 DLC

2014 - TBD


#111 Baron O Hell

Baron O Hell

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 31 August 2012 - 03:25 PM

Just finished the game and was saving this podcast. Loved the song at the end. All in all I thought the ending I got was horrible but fine. I just watched the other endings also and they are horrible and fine also but better than the one I chose. I would have liked to see a update on how every culture and person I touched in this game was doing a few years after the war ended. The endings made it seem like my choices didn't really make a difference in the world. For example I let the queen live twice but her insects were not in the ending at all.