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BP's Oil Disaster Causes Mutated Seafood


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#61 Clak

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:40 PM

Out of sight, out of mind, that's why those dispersants were used. It visually cleaned up the area faster, which I'm sure BP wanted the get done ASAP, all of those photos of the huge oil slicks on the surface weren't helping them any.
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#62 cjacks9

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:54 PM

I haven't been following this thread. However, a radio show this morning featured a man from down that way saying the BP folks, and even the Coast Guard, rebuff locals' evidence that there is still a problem and still much work to be done.

There was a bit about how the stuff BP was using isn't even legal in their home country. That's...bad, methinks.

#63 dmaul1114

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:05 PM

Pretty good OP Ed piece from today's NY Times on why just fining corporations isn't enough to get them to change, and why criminal charges for individuals are needed.

http://www.nytimes.c...-away.html?_r=1

#64 EdRyder

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:38 PM

^ Damn good op-Ed
Again, The perception seems to be that if you're harsher in regulations towards a BP or ban them from obtaining new drilling permits off our shores ,that action is somehow going to effect the price of gas for Americans. Its totally contrary to the way the Cartel of Sheikhs set up their markets. As most of you already know(at least I hope you do) They BID for these leases and contracts. In that sense we have them over a barrel from the word go. Whatever standard we expected corps to submit in their bids , all the competition would attempt to out-do one another.
Going back to perception , there it is in a nutshell.
Elected officials and the general public have been led to believe that you cant go against these guys without damaging your own purse, and it isnt true

#65 Confucius

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:54 PM

why do you jackholes have to change everything into a political debate?

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#66 EdRyder

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:09 PM

All that is only scratching the surface on the effect to marine life. The amount of and variety of dispersants used will be studied for years and years to come.
Toxicity of the cancer causing variety is bad for the wildlife and US in the sense that we consume the fish. The harshness of Corexit in that area derives from bioaccumulate. (the small fish eat Corexit mixed with oil and are poisoned , The bigger predators consume those smaller fish and end up with higher levels of poison in their flesh)

When it gets to an area of mutant fish , studies show that Corexit has endocrine-disrupting attributes. (artificial estrogen interference) EDC's cause adverse effects like hormone biosynthesis(developmental, reproductive, neurological and immune effects)
Beyond the Mr Burns 3 eyed mutant fish , Human beings exposed to these toxic levels of EDC's suffer from bacteria transmission like Brucella

"A former research report showed that unborn babies exposed to Gulf of Mexico's water, beaches, air, land or seafood may be at higher risk hearts malformed before birth and having lifelong congenital heart disease, a study that also shed more light on sharp increases in both Gulf miscarriages and Gulf dead baby dolphins."

#67 dohdough

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:12 PM

why do you jackholes have to change everything into a political debate?

Because everything is political and it's the name of this sub-forum?:lol:

#68 camoor

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

Because everything is political and it's the name of this sub-forum?:lol:


Yeah, if you talk about games then it will get moved to the General Gaming forum and you won't be able to call anyone jackholes. Is that what you want EdRyder?? :)

#69 EdRyder

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:24 PM

I dont know how the hell I got dragged into that side show. I couldn't care less who calls who a jackhole , jackhole.

#70 camoor

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:42 PM

I dont know how the hell I got dragged into that side show. I couldn't care less who calls who a jackhole , jackhole.


Another humorless prat. Just what vs needs...

#71 EdRyder

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:37 PM

Out of sight, out of mind, that's why those dispersants were used. It visually cleaned up the area faster, which I'm sure BP wanted the get done ASAP, all of those photos of the huge oil slicks on the surface weren't helping them any.


Indeed. I read a report that claimed the majority of dispersants was applied directly to the well head.(The goal obviously being that it would never visibly rise to the surface)
Again , The regulatory system authorized the use of dipersants with no guidelines on amount, variety or duration.
So in my mind it all goes back to the bid for the contract. "When something goes wrong , we have these chemicals" And that was just "good enough" for TPTB.

It should be simple , Cant cap that deep, cant drill that deep. Then, instead of crossing their fingers and stockpiling chemicals they'll have to R&D alternatives. (you know , like a submersible with mechanical arms that can inject cement into the wellhead in less than motherfucking 4 months)

#72 Clak

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:11 PM

It definitely seems like they were completely unprepared for something like this happening. Personally I think that before these wells are explored companies should have to prove they are prepared to handle a situation just like this, and prepared doesn't mean "We've got these chemicals we'll spray on it". Their solution was basically to disperse the oil into the ocean in the hopes that it would just go away, and that's pretty fucking sad that they can just do that. That's such a childish way of dealing with something it isn't even funny.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#73 vherub

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

I just finished reading the National Commission on the Deepwater Spill
http://www.oilspillcommission.gov/

It is really well written, shockingly so and moves along at a fast pace. It is clear, well researched, well-articulated and if you are at all interested, I strongly recommended downloading and reading the free pdf. Especially if you want an unbiased opinion of how this could have happened, could it happen again and how to prevent it from happening in the future.

#74 speedracer

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:19 PM

I absolutely blame Obama for the Macando spill. "Better than Bush" isn't fucking good enough in my book. He sided with Big Oil, plain and simple. The $20 bil became a liability max in reality, even though everyone at the time promised it wouldn't be. Obama's peeps got the number out there to look tough and BP's people took it because they knew there was no fucking way real liability was that low.

Obama looks like an industry shill because he was an industry shill. The $20 bil number made an Obama defender of me, a defense I feel ashamed for mounting now that I've seen how quickly he pivoted to fellating the oil interests afterwards. We don't have all that money disbursed because Obama's admin doesn't give a shit. We don't have serious charges because Obama's admin doesn't give a shit. The new rules are a complete joke and continue the theater of safety around these wells. And how bout we give more leases while we're at it! See, we [heart] big oil! Please don't make it a political issue!

Sure, he was better than the gaggle of oil money pole smoking douchebag governors of the gulf, but I didn't vote for him to be marginally better than Haley Barbour.

This absolutely was Obama's Katrina. At least you can rebuild that sunken POS town. There ain't no fixin this destroyed gulf. I have a beach 30 mins from me that I can never ever go to or eat out of and all I got was this shitty t-shirt and new leases.

I've lived near oceans all my life. I love the taste of salt water and the feeling of how it sticks to you when you dry off. And now my body of water is off limits for basically fucking eternity. Fuck you and your $20 bil Obama.

Callin it like I see it.

Oh, and that bitch is still leaking: http://www.prnewswir...-133333488.html

Speed - Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't pregnant women not suppoed to eat crustaceans anyway? Could just be an old wive's tale or something but that's in my head as a no-no for some reason.

My wife is a crazy fanatic about all things healthy while pregnant so that she can cheat a couple of times. *A* crawfish when the season came was one of em. But yea.
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#75 nasum

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:42 PM

http://finance.yahoo...-171148127.html

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#76 speedracer

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:44 PM

Two years = 1 obstruction charge. Yep. I'm all good.
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#77 Clak

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:49 PM

A engineer gets charged with obstruction because he deleted some text messages, justice is served!

I honestly feel sorry for the gulf region, from natural disasters to man made ones, the whole region has just taken a pounding in recent years.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#78 dohdough

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:55 PM

I don't think Obama turned out like ANYONE expected. But holy shit, could you imagine if he pulled an FDR? The peanut gallery would be going even more insane.

Oil shill-ness aside, people were already giving him shit for making BP pay $20 billion into a fund alone. It's like we're in bizarro-land or something.

#79 UncleBob

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:32 PM

Oil shill-ness aside, people were already giving him shit for making BP pay $20 billion into a fund alone. It's like we're in bizarro-land or something.


The ends don't justify the means.

Instead of allowing things to go through the legal system as they should have, Obama had secret backroom meetings where it would appear he cut deals to A) Make himself look better and B) Get BP off the hook cheaply.

I don't see how anyone can think this is a good thing (except, of course, Obama and BP).
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#80 dohdough

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:43 PM

The ends don't justify the means.

Instead of allowing things to go through the legal system as they should have, Obama had secret backroom meetings where it would appear he cut deals to A) Make himself look better and B) Get BP off the hook cheaply.

I don't see how anyone can think this is a good thing (except, of course, Obama and BP).

The means was an additional charge against him, not the primary one. People were bitching about even the idea of making BP pay, muchless that amount.

#81 speedracer

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:55 PM

The ends don't justify the means.

Instead of allowing things to go through the legal system as they should have, Obama had secret backroom meetings where it would appear he cut deals to A) Make himself look better and B) Get BP off the hook cheaply.

I don't see how anyone can think this is a good thing (except, of course, Obama and BP).

It did make him look good at the time because it was the right thing to do at the time. It was predicated on continuing investigation and monitoring of what was unquestionably gross incompetence that had lead to an externality so insane that our system just isn't capable of handling it (hence the title of my thread on BP, A libertarian's guide to externality costing).

I don't fault him for not knowing what to do or how to react. I fault him for making the conscious decision to not only not act above the $20 bil when it became obvious that wasn't going to cover the damage, but to issue more leases without requiring a better plan than what was brought to the table to fix it (which is, quite literally, more skimmers).

If the only thing that came out of this was a plan on how to handle this in the future, I'd be ok. Even that didn't happen. He is scared of being called a big government regulator in an area so badly in need of regulation that it completely fucked 600 quadrillion (yea, with a q) gallons of water on an entire continental shelf.
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#82 Clak

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

Yeah, can't have the government forcing companies to be responsible and pay for their mistakes, that might set a dangerous precedent. Hell, a company could actually end up going bankrupt, the horror.

I wonder, how badly does a company have to Fuck up the be banned from doing business in this country? I mean short of being linked to terrorists, just how badly do you have to Fuck up? Apparently nothing short of an earth shattering catastrophe is enough.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#83 joeboosauce

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:57 PM

The means was an additional charge against him, not the primary one. People were bitching about even the idea of making BP pay, muchless that amount.


Which people? Corporatists and their right-wing cronies? Most people have no problem with someone paying for their criminal negligence. He had the backing of most the people even right-wingers. But, again, no fundamental difference than most politicians; he caters to the elites.
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#84 camoor

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:17 PM

Which people? Corporatists and their right-wing cronies? Most people have no problem with someone paying for their criminal negligence. He had the backing of most the people even right-wingers. But, again, no fundamental difference than most politicians; he caters to the elites.


Not sure where you live, but almost any state with a coast near oil-rich waters will be sympathetic to the oil industry. I know in VA there is alot of support for drilling off the VA coast, and the Obama administration recently approved doing seismic surveys, which in the wake of the BP spill is absolutely insane. Absolutely insane.

#85 joeboosauce

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:16 PM

Not sure where you live, but almost any state with a coast near oil-rich waters will be sympathetic to the oil industry. I know in VA there is alot of support for drilling off the VA coast, and the Obama administration recently approved doing seismic surveys, which in the wake of the BP spill is absolutely insane. Absolutely insane.


First, that population is not much compared to the entire US population. Second, even those who live in those areas would largely agree that BP should pay for its criminal negligence... unless they will personally profit from this. Regardless, this doesn't matter. They are a tiny minority.
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#86 Clak

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:33 PM

The state governments are sympathetic because of the benefits to the state, or rather I should say, the things that the leaders can claim they brought to the state. If it brings more jobs to the area they can boast about that etc. On the other hand, those who run businesses which depend on tourists probably aren't loving BP right now. I've thought about taking a trip down to New Orleans this summer since I've never been, but I won't be eating seafood if I do.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#87 Clak

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:05 PM

I love it, I fucking love it.

http://news.yahoo.co...-172924123.html

But "before SMU prof Al Armendariz had even warmed the seat at his post as EPA regional chief," Brant Hargrove wrote in the Dallas Observer, "he was pilloried as an activist whose research into the air pollution caused by fracking operations made him unfit to run a five-state office overseeing some of the industry's most important drilling grounds."

Yeah, his research into how fracking damages the environment made him unfit to work for the EPA. In bizzarocon world that makes perfect sense. One person in the EPA shows a backbone, in a video a few years old even, and they resign. No wonder the EPA is so ineffectual, they're not allowed to be.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#88 cjacks9

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:05 AM

He says he has become too much of a distraction. I say be a distraction. It should make for good discussion about the important things...maybe.

#89 Clak

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:46 PM

Exactly, get people talking about it. At the least it will get some folks to show their true colors. We'll finally get to see their priorities.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift